[Closed] Entry-level Lotus car (new version of the Lotus Elise is a lot more affordable)

good family car there, hora.

Public transport system for them 8)

Funny cars Elises. I tested a 111R - brilliant handling and quick but the engine sounded like a chavved up Nova and the interior was so flimsy and cheap it made a Yugo look like a mid 80s Merc for build quality. It also has the same engine as (the now defunct) Toyota Corolla T Sport - which was £16k. Hmmm...

Its a face-lift, work to design/produce the new car [i]may[/i] have begun...

I wouldn't own a current Lotus though, not even if they cost 27p

I think "Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious" still applies unfortunately.

Kit car?

You could build something like a JP-15 for 9k, all you need is friendly breaker with a banged up 1.6/1.7 fiesta/puma, a garrage and a bag of spanners*. Its esentially a mid engined take on a lotus 7 chassis but with a fairing to help it allong on the straights. And being designed by JP its going to be good 😀

*more tools may be required.

don't build a kit car hora, please.

I couldn't take all the 'these shocks don't work' posts.

I dunno, he could be gone a long time if he did 😉

I couldn't take all the 'these shocks don't work' posts.

Funny guy 😆

O/T I've never blown a FOX RP23 shock but countless forks..

Oldgit, I wouldnt be that long. I'd ensure I had wireless on a laptop 😉

Check this Lotus accelerate, my mates old car, has a Honda type R engine in it, build quality on the car is rank though. In the dry it leaves motor bikes from the lights !!!!!! 😯

I think "Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious" still applies unfortunately.

kingkong....
😯

And who cares if they DO break down anyway? You don't buy a car like that to be sensible.

Strangelove - you get some Renaults and Alfas that last years with no issues at all - does that mean they are all reliable?

There's a world of difference between wanting to buy a car and being prepared for a huge project like building a kit car.. silly..

Affordable if you are a late middle-aged old biffer who has always wanted "something for the weekend" and have more money than sense.

Thirty grand for something that is going to get driven about 2500 miles a year and depreciate like its been dropped off a cliff.

I think that Loads of Trouble Usally Serious thing is like the Cannondale Crack 'n' Fail. It was true once and has stuck because it is 'witty' even if it is no longer appropriate

Sports cars in general are the slowest depreciating cars in my experience. Even the fastest in the range (ie, GTIs, RS etc.) hang onto their money really well.

I like the Elise and the Evora but I just think they are flimsy and rather steeply priced for what they are.

I'd happily have one if given one but I wouldn't spend £30k on one.

I most certainly wouldn't kick a Elise out of bed for farting.

Had an S2 in Touring spec (context!) and to this day, it's the most fun thing I've ever done. Whilst moving, anyway. Dodgy build quality, farty engine noises, supposed unreliability...none of it matters a jot when you're "on it": engine on-cam, apex clipped, feedback almost overwhelming, car responding to your every input telepathically. It's something only true petrolheads would know. Everyone else can stick to their diesel german estates and other such four-wheeled tedium.

Would need a new exhaust if it was farting!

Don't all brilliant cars have their foibles? A Ferrari with a Tubi exhaust. Oh dear gawd. I saw a Enzo the other day from the lights onto the sliproad and the guy short-shifted up to circa 3rd then kept is footdown. I had both windows down and to be honest my ears were in heaven.

I still love the look of the S1 Elise and they can be picked up relatively cheaply these days. Long term as a second car I reckon they make a lot of sense as you'll have none of the corrosion issues with the chassis or body, so it's only keeping the thing mechanically sound that's going to cost.

Although the real cost is arguably that second garage to keep it in;-)

I love Elises - certainly dont depreciate like a stone - If anything the origonal S1 from the mid 90s are appreciating (what was available for £5-7k grand a couple of years ago is now going for £7-8k)

only had a 111s (had a 1.8vvt toyota engine rather than the more powerful 111r) for a few weeks, very easy to drive around town and on the motorway, even in the snow. and of course for a nice blat at the weekends.

But yeah, - wouldnt class the new elise with the 1.6 at 27 as 'affordable'
That would go to Caterham for a new 'classic' 7 at £13,000 (of course if you want to spec options like say a windscreen or paint then the price goes up a little. 😉

it is pretty affordable. Here's some other prices (without adding on extra packs etc) of cars today

Vauxhall Astra Hatchback 2.0 CDTi Elite 5dr £22,890
BMW 320d Convertible M Sport 2010 2dr £37,655 (£38k for a 2litre diesel!!!)
Ford Kuga Crossover 2.0 TDCi Titanium 4WD 5dr £25,658
Citroen C5 Saloon 3.0 HDi V6 Exclusive Auto 4dr £28,295
VW Golf R 2.0 £32,190

A friend has just sold his Elise for more than he paid for it about 5 years ago (paid £7k, just sold for £9k) very few mods apart from uprated exhaust and it has put on quite a few miles in that time too.

I just don't get why you would buy one new. Most of them are second cars, you can get a nice tidy low-miler and sell it for close to what you paid.

Its the Exige that gets me, stunning.

like most things in life, you end up paying one way or another, apart from MF's mate. 😉
buy new, run it on the track for a couple of years, chop it in and do it again. dealer loves you, looks after you, major cost is depreciation.
otherwise buy sh, service costs, depreciation, all yours.
want a fast car? cat 7 has to be the bargain. anything else is just an ( very marginal in the case of the elise ) increase in comfort and expense.

I have driven a supercharged Exige around a track at speed and it is stunning fun although a very un-nerving sensation feeling the weight of the engine behind you trying to be in front of you as you hammer the stop pedal at 120mph into a corner at Silverstone 🙂

[img] [/img]

That was never a Lotus. 😉

Kingkongsfinger: From that video I make 0-60 in 5 seconds and a further 13 to 120.

Guess your mate only raced slow motorbikes?

Whats a ford escort got to do with an ellise?

as is normally the case:

Tree: 1 - Car:0

it is pretty affordable. Here's some other prices (without adding on extra packs etc) of cars today

Vauxhall Astra Hatchback 2.0 CDTi Elite 5dr £22,890
BMW 320d Convertible M Sport 2010 2dr £37,655 (£38k for a 2litre diesel!!!)
Ford Kuga Crossover 2.0 TDCi Titanium 4WD 5dr £25,658
Citroen C5 Saloon 3.0 HDi V6 Exclusive Auto 4dr £28,295
VW Golf R 2.0 £32,190

Yebbut there's naff all in an Elise. It's just a honeycomb tub with a spiced up production engine in the back. Whereas stuff like the Golf GTI and R32 manage to be extremely fast point to point and a fairly quiet and sane family car.

I doubt, in event of any kinda of contest, a gti or r32 would not have the slightest idea where an elise went. completely different cars though - the point of the list was not to suggest competition, just the point that £26k for an elise isn't all that much money when you can splurge £32k on a warm golf, adding decent seats (£3325) and sat nav (£2225) to which brings the cost over £37,500

Whereas stuff like the Golf GTI and R32 manage to be extremely fast point to point and a fairly quiet and sane family car.

5lab - you beat me to it 🙂

I've taxed worse

No doubt an Elise is faster point to point than almost anything for the money. My point is that when you think of what goes into developing a hot hatch, it's a hell of a lot compared to using the same honeycomb tub for years and sticking Rover / Toyota engines into it.

I've never driven an Elise, but I did have a Caterham for a couple of years as my daily car. Before that I had a little 106GTi (I know, hairdresser's car) - for every day driving the 106 was probably faster because a hot hatch is a hell of lot more forgiving. But. The Caterham just [i]feels[/i] fast all the time, which is the only thing that counts. Absolutely no contest the proper sports car will reward with proper driving sensations even when you're creeping along in a traffic jam. (A Caterham is so low, for example, that you can put the palm of your hand flat on the road - just sitting in it is an experience, as is getting in it - in fact you don't really get in it as much as put it on.)

If it is thrills you're after don't bother with the Lotus, just man up and get a Caterham.

I doubt a 106gti could [b]ever[/b] be faster than a Caterham!!!

or build a "LoCost" [img] [/img]
which is a kit version of the Caterham, based on a space frame style chassis (is that the right term?) and the engine, transmission and drivechain from a Ford Sierra.
Bwarp.
very flexible though i think, can be modded to fit pretty much any setup (as when you "buy one" you buy a book with the "general plan of attack" iirc)

quite tidy ones have been built for £300, and putting an engine and transmission from a car that heavy and powerful into what is effectivly a rollerskate, its going to be scarily good fun 🙂

my uncle (favorite story incoming) has/had a LoMax, which is a spaceframe into which you stick all the parts from a 2CV. Running gear, drivechain, electrics. Even those stupid little lights were designed into it.

Looked the mutts, and wasnt the fastest thing in the world, but was pretty rapid as it weighed nothing, and was (apparently) great fun to drive 🙂

[img] [/img]

isnt that better than a 2CV? 🙂

MY FIL has a Westfield (same chassis design as the Caterham/Lotus 7) with a 1.7 Puma engine, modded engine map, modded manifolds and exhaust (obviously).

'Only' develops about 180bhp (normally 120 from that block) but it weighs nothing and is geared specifically for hill-climbing. It does 0-60 in around 3 seconds. It does only have a top speed of about 105 though LOL.

I doubt a 106gti could ever be faster than a Caterham!!!

Either way, I'd take the car that [i]felt[/i] faster over the car that actually was faster, even if the difference was quite big.

I doubt a 106gti could ever be faster than a Caterham!!!

120bhp in a 900kg tin can.

zoom zoom, what fun 😀

You could always ask someone who has owned and driven both.

Can't find last year's results, but here are the results for the first race of this season. Pay particular attention to classes 1b and 2a (and note course records too)
[url= http://www.harewoodhill.com/downloads/pdf/eventResults/provisional_results_april_0410.pdf ]Harewood Hill Climb results[/url]

🙄

'7' type cars are fast in a corner due to the low weight, but pants in a straight line, hence why they are often fodder for motorbike engines. They have the aerodynamics of a brick!

Lotus realised this and made the 11, and most kit car manufacturers make a faired in verion of their 7 inspired cars.

Beware of the cheeper kit cars, some try to hard to recycle bits and end up being a little pants. The 2B for example uses a siera, including the rear axel, even with the best will in the world you cant make a suspension system designed for a 1500kg saloon work well in a 900kg sports car.

No doubt an Elise is faster point to point than almost anything for the money. My point is that when you think of what goes into developing a hot hatch, it's a hell of a lot compared to using the same honeycomb tub for years and sticking Rover / Toyota engines into it.

this is fair - but it should be noticed that VW sell nearly 1,000,000 golfs per year - or approximately 5,000,000 per 'mark'

Lotus, by comparison, sold 20,000 elises in the first two generations

even if you count these as similar enough to be one 'mark', that's a 250:1 ratio of cars sold. I expect that alone makes up for 90% of the percieved differences in value?

Nowt the matter with an Elise. Lots of trouble usually serious - tosh! Owned mine from new 6 years ago and not a single problem (kiss of death time...). Regular track days and good maintenance and it's fine. It's also practical - before I had to start weekly commuting I used to have the child seat in the passenger seat so it is a family car! And I can fit the hard tail in the passenger side as well if I take the wheels off...

The new one is slower than a standard Elise - 6.5 against 5.6 0-60. It's also overpriced - 30+k for a Touring equipped version - I paid 24.5 for an S2 Tourer with the same kit! But Colin Chapman would be spinning in his grave if you consider his mantra - perfromance through lightweight...

An Elise wouldn't be faster than pretty much anything on the roads in a point to point unless it was twisty B roads that the car's designed for. Now an Exige S on the other hand...

mastiles_fanylion - you forget one thing - yes a CaterField is quick up a hill climb - but in real world B road blatting - theres one thing that can help make the 106 quicker than a 7 - ground clearance (some of the roads round here the 7s have to back off for fear of banging the sump on the bumpy/yumpy roads

[i]I reckon they make a lot of sense as you'll have none of the corrosion issues with the chassis or body[/i]

Except the electolytic corrosion between steel suspension and aluminium chassis! :-O

Anyone remember when they had Metal Matrix Composite brakes? I used them in my disseration for my MatEng degree. Spoke to Lotus and everything. Also did a bit of the B5 RS4 wheels that kept collapsing.

Mossimus - LOL - I did the same whilst watching the Youtube Vid. Maybe the guy had races with [url= http://motoprofi.com/motospecspictures/honda/cb_500-2001.html ]CB500s[/url]?

Through the twisties is something else but in a straight line you need a lot of car before you are troubling any bike.

Shall I get the road legal car stats for you?

Lord Summerisle - Member
mastiles_fanylion - you forget one thing - yes a CaterField is quick up a hill climb - but in real world B road blatting - theres one thing that can help make the 106 quicker than a 7 - ground clearance (some of the roads round here the 7s have to back off for fear of banging the sump on the bumpy/yumpy roads
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Except the electolytic corrosion between steel suspension and aluminium chassis! :-O

Which doesn't happen if put together properly with durlec (sp?).

m_f Why are you citing the example of racing? Who said anything about racing?

For all the reasons I stated, if you are able to read them, a hot hatch is probably faster on normal public B roads because ( to repeat the reasons I already gave) it is more forgiving and safe.

My two cars had similar power but the Caterham was probably close to half the weight. The Caterham is quicker to accelerate, much quicker to brake, turns more sharply and probably carries similar corner speed. However - the little GTi has excellent traction, abs for more confidence on the brakes, encourages a sort of chuckable confidence (where the Caterham only really worked under fingertip control) and for more of the time is at least as fast. Whilst at the same time feeling half as fast!

Without doubt the Caterham would be faster on the track. But that is changing the subject.

Without doubt the Caterham would be faster on the track. But that is changing the subject.

Oi 106gti fanboy, road car in better road car manners shocker. the question was is the Caterham the quicker car, which it undoubtably is.

hora, that ferrari will do 90mph in 2nd, by which time your ears will be bleeding. You'll have a smile on your face at the time though.

Here's my original remark

for every day driving the 106 was probably faster

Not sure how much more clearly it could be spelt out for the benefit of the hard of understanding.

Since I owned a 106GTi for a year and then had a Caterham for two years, and lived in the same place and drove the same roads all the while I think I am ideally qualified to comment on the relative performance of those to cars around B roads. Why you persist in arguing about it is difficult to understand. You can't really go near the edge of the performance of the Caterham on a public raod, because it will bite you or break, whereas a nippy hot hatch is very easy to be a bit wilder with and remain safe - hence it is the faster car more of the time, if you're in to that sort of thing.

*holds hands up*

Apologies, wrong end of the stick there.

But you wouldn't need to go near the edge of the performance of the Caterham! As you have said yourself [i]the Caterham is quicker to accelerate, much quicker to brake, turns more sharply and probably carries similar corner speed[/i]. So at what point does the 106gti become quicker?

(By the way, if you are ever in the area, go to Harewood Hill Climb and you will see that the climb has very much in common with a B road - narrow, twisty, hairpins etc).

Ohh, and I don't think I have seen any more Caterhams/Westfields etc come off compared to road cars at that hill climb when they are all on the ragged edge BTW.

EDIT: Thinking about what you are saying, I am getting to understand what you are saying is that the 106 gives you more confidence to drive more quickly than you dared in the Caterham????

Normal B roads are radically different - they have other people coming the other way, going the same way, cyclists, horses, horse crap, oil, potholes, mud, the unexpected.

I'd still take a Caterham for enjoyment though, because the sensations are in another league. To go faster in it though, [b]I know from personal experience[/b], would not be acceptable on a public road most of the time. It would [i]feel[/i] faster all of the time.

Normal B roads are radically different - they have other people coming the other way, going the same way, cyclists, horses, horse crap, oil, potholes, mud, the unexpected.

I'd still take a Caterham for enjoyment though, because the sensations are in another league. To go faster in it though, I know from personal experience, would not be acceptable on a public road most of the time. It would feel faster all of the time.

I think I'm as fast in a hired Transit as I am in a low slung sports car.

I'd take an Elise over a Transit any day though 🙂

you'd probably be safer in a Caterham than a 106 and thats saying something 😉

mossimus - Member
Kingkongsfinger: From that video I make 0-60 in 5 seconds and a further 13 to 120.

Guess your mate only raced slow motorbikes?

It was wet but in the dry quite a bit quicker.

Not many motorbikers have the ability or have the gonads to get a mega standing start on a fast road bike and keep it on "cam" 😕

Still a impressive car for acceleration when your a few inches off the deck.