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Didn't post anything on the official thread as I didn't want to burst the bubble but I can't believe I'm the only one raising an eyebrow at the collective amnesia regarding his exploits with Jimmy Page.
No, can't say I do, so when might that have been?
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There might be some logic there. Bowie (and others like him) have contributed to changing the modern western mindset to one where racism and homophobia (among other things) are seen as being not very nice.
Hmm....
And nobody outside South Africa would have heard of Nelson Mandela if it hadn't been for that 1984 pop song by the Special AKA.
I assume you're kidding.
Man fed up with stuff about Bowie posts stuff about Bowie so he can generate lots more stuff about Bowie .... shocker ...
I'm surprised FB isn't offering a Ziggy Stardust filter for profile pictures....
Is he getting a state funeral? I think we should start a petition.
grum - Member
No, can't say I do, so when might that have been?
[img]There might be some logic there. Bowie (and others like him) have contributed to changing the modern western mindset to one where racism and homophobia (among other things) are seen as being not very nice.
Hmm....
Well he was right, we got Margaret Thatcher shortly after..
Bowie, great guy etc etc I have his music etc etc
But why oh why do we have Facebook and forum users wailing on about his life and how it saved them? Dribbling on with platitudes as if they really cared or followed him or his life when he was alive. It seems to happen any time someone famous dies.
It's a shame because the real news is Stewpot is no longer with us.
Didn't post anything on the official thread as I didn't want to burst the bubble but I can't believe I'm the only one raising an eyebrow at the collective amnesia regarding his exploits with Jimmy Page
that makes at least two of us---there are one or two others iknow but how revisionism works eh
sorry dazh ---got the quotes the wrong way round
I can't believe I'm the only one raising an eyebrow at the collective amnesia regarding his exploits with Jimmy Page
I voiced similar over John Peel. But, no. One may not mention such things.
being annoyed by endless coverage is how I felt when Diana died.
at least Bowie reports have good songs and quotes
been reports of "death threats" on fb when linking to stories about the 13 yo and the red kimono
Maybe not when he's only just died, Flashy.
Time and place and all that.
So, when someone dies, we ignore their failings and sins? Gloss over them, sweep them under the carpet? Pretend it never happened?
Or does that only apply to an approved list of people?
That Mugabe fella has a lovely garden, apparently. For example.
His flirtation with Nazi mythology and Adolf Hitler wasn't one of his high points either. Although he recognised later much of this was due to the huge amount of drugs and alcohol he used.
Maybe not when he's only just died, Flashy.
Time and place and all that.
Hmm, if people weren't going quite so over the top with their hero worship then maybe. But I think it's healthy in that scenario to point out that everyone has flaws.
As an aside (and this is the first time I've commented on any of the Bowie threads*), is this the way forwards for the STW forum when somebody famous dies? A thread for people to post "RIP", one for people to complain about other people not being respectful enough on the RIP thread and a third to complain about the recreational grieving? Seems like a handy way to avoid conflict on here when everybody has a thread with like minded people where they can post what they feel without offending anybody 🙂 Is it something which could also be applied to other controversial subjects?
* I never see the point in posting RIP apart from to demonstrate to other people how with it you are, have managed to avoid most media, so not unduly annoyed by the coverage, and whilst Bowie wasn't a big thing in my life I did like some of his music and appreciate how significant he was
His flirtation with Nazi mythology and Adolf Hitler wasn't one of his high points either. Although he recognised later much of this was due to the huge amount of drugs and alcohol he used.
Yeah, I heard Hitler's 'low points' were due to his excessive use of Mescaline.
#godwin'slaw
It seems to me the majority of social media posts yesterday were all along the lines of 'I wasn't a fan of his work but I can recognise he was great' (read: not great really but not rubbish either, kind of a bit mehhh)
I always thought there was a touch of the Emperors new clothes about Bowie and his music.
aracer* I never see the point in posting RIP apart from to demonstrate to other people how with it you are, have managed to avoid most media, so not unduly annoyed by the coverage, and whilst Bowie wasn't a big thing in my life I did like some of his music and appreciate how significant he was
What did we do before social media when someone died? Just tell our wives/family members/co-workers then get on with our day?
There might be some logic there. Bowie (and others like him) have contributed to changing the modern western mindset to one where racism and homophobia (among other things) are seen as being not very nice
Really? China Girl for example... was a piece of misguided crap, that attempted to have a peck at western imperialism but instead came off as the work of an orientalist nonce. It's so mind numbling cringeworthy, even for the 80's.
Bowie should have been shot at dawn for simply being a smug, annoying arse who was masquerading as something that he wasn't (having progressive values).
before social media
I believe the princess of our hearts died pre-social media didn't she? Of course, yes, the country just got on with its life.
I see it didn't take long for the backlash, don't worry it'll over be over soon.
I stopped being offended by how much coverage some story or other gets when I managed to get through 2 Royal Baby arrival without seeing a more than a few seconds of coverage.
Of course, yes, the country just got on with its life.
It kind of didn't though did it. The country almost completely shut down on the day of her funeral and there was weird/creepy mass hysteria and enforced groupthink during that time. Yes I'm being melodramatic - but only slightly!
[quote=deadlydarcy ]I believe the princess of our hearts died pre-social media didn't she? Of course, yes, the country just got on with its life.
Yeah, but at least you didn't read about how much everybody was missing her on FB. 😈
Patronising bell eh? Who'dve guessed
Oh come on, when you make such ridiculous comments as
If the passing of Bowie isn't culturally significant enough to stir the media for hours/days - then nothing really matters.
Then you're really leaving yourself wide open aren't you?
Yes, he may have shifted things in his earlier years but in my lifetime (early 80's onwards) I can't think of a single noteworthy thing he's done apart from that equally ridiculous codpiece. He has absolutely no cultural bearing on my life and whilst I respect the fact that for people who 'were there' this may be somewhat different he's worthy of no more media attention than any other pop star.
And as for time and place for bringing up uncomfortable truths, pretty sure folk were saying the same when Savile popped it and, yes, John Peel.
[quote=squirrelking ]Yes, he may have shifted things in his earlier years but in my lifetime (early 80's onwards) I can't think of a single noteworthy thing he's done apart from that equally ridiculous codpiece. He has absolutely no cultural bearing on my lifeTBF, he probably [i]has[/i] in ways you don't recognise - through his influence on other people and artists. There was an interview doing the rounds yesterday where he was talking about being verbally abused in the streets just for having long hair. Bowie (along with other artists of the era) did help change the scope of what we now define as "normal".
I believe the princess of our hearts died pre-social media didn't she? Of course, yes, the country just got on with its life.
Some of us did , long live the republic.
What a way to find out that Bowie's died. Hmmmm... STW - you really are unique one.
Hanging out in SE Asia for a few weeks, chilling out, ignoring practically everything that is going on in the world - and click on a thread 'enough about...'
Sheeeeet. I'm stunned. :-/
You probably want this thread ned
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/david-bowie
As I mentioned up there, I don't see why we can't have this thread as well - most people have been civilised enough not to air the thoughts they've expressed here on the other one. It's hardly the fault of the contributors to this one that the other one has dropped off the front page (or that your only source of news is STW 😉 )
Here's the third thread I mentioned, just in case you find that more to your taste
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/thread-for-people-who-want-to-debate-the-reaction-to-someones-death
Yes, he may have shifted things in his earlier years but in my lifetime (early 80's onwards) I can't think of a single noteworthy thing he's done apart from that equally ridiculous codpiece.
Aye, he's as important and influential to me as Captain Sensible, Chris Rea, Phil Collins and Midge Ure. He was just another one of those celebs who would pop up on kid's TV.
He was the prancing idiot from the Dancing in the Street video. A man who, behind the changing fashions, always struck me as a profoundly dull person. Somebody with absolutely nothing to say.
His music represented everything I disliked about music in the 80s. A bland, thin, tinny and over produced noise. Syrupy songs accompanied by screechy saxophone.
And while, I'm sure he was influential. For me, it seemed a bad influence. He was the perfect pop star for the 80's, a fairly bland and generic product who had understood how to market and rebrand himself.
He was style over substance. The inspiration for the likes of Lady Gaga.
Don't diss Gaga!
Edit - blimmin youtube
Someone has already put my thoughts into words for me...
http://newsthump.com/2016/01/12/man-declares-everyone-stupid-for-mourning-david-bowie-awaits-medal/
It kind of didn't though did it. The country almost completely shut down on the day of her funeral and there was weird/creepy mass hysteria and enforced groupthink during that time.
Really? You don't say! 😀
Somebody with absolutely nothing to say.
This was one of his great strengths in my view as someone said yesterday of everyone popping up on socal media
Bowie was a private individual who didn’t ever spout platitudes and inanities about everything going on around him. You’d think some of these people would bear this in mind.
And while, I'm sure he was influential. For me, it seemed a bad influence. He was the perfect pop star for the 80's
Just one second my good man....
Lets take a look at the band that, more than any other, was the rebellion against over produced noise .... Nirvana.
And now lets look at their big break through moment ... Live in New York ... and one of the stand out tracks that evening...?
The Man Who Sold the World ... written by ... Bowie, of course
That said, not sure he cared for his later 80's stuff that much himself.
[quote=deadlydarcy ]Really? You don't say!
But he did say, didn't he? 😕
You seem to keep posting things you don't mean, it's awfully confusing...
Oh dear, I think it's OK to complain about the mawkish hysteria that we seem to get when any sleb passes on, but is it really necessary to speak ill of the dead? OK you didn't like him, why do you feel the need to be here talking about him then, nasty rude <insert appropriate word meaning hopeless person on cycling forum> honestly manners cost nothing at least show some respect, even if you disagree with the volume shown by others.
And we'll have to go through all this indignation again in a few weeks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35289998
Ro5ey - MemberLets take a look at the band that, more than any other, was the rebellion against over produced noise .... Nirvana.
ok.
And now lets look at their big break through moment
Reading, 1992.
and they'd been going for a good while before that.
You seem to keep posting things you don't mean, it's awfully confusing...
Yes, I can see that now.
but is it really necessary to speak ill of the dead? but is it really necessary to speak ill of the dead?
It's neither about speaking ill of the dead or not liking him. Simply a response to the quite frankly hysterical reaction of both the media and a large chunk of the population to the death of a man who whilst unquestionably inspirational and a musical genius, also had a serious dark side which people should be open about, rather than conveniently ignoring them because it doesn't suit the collective idea of him.
Ro5ey - MemberAnd now lets look at their big break through moment ... Live in New York ...
Their breakthrough moment was probably MTV playlisting Smells Like Teen Spirit tbh, Live in New York wouldn't have happened if they'd not already been well and truly broken through- they'd already had a number one album and owned Reading.
(also they covered the Vaselines in that set so I'm not sure what it says for quality/taste 😉 )
Ro5ey - MemberJust one second my good man....
Lets take a look at the band that, more than any other, was the rebellion against over produced noise .... Nirvana.
And now lets look at their big break through moment ... Live in New York
HA HA! Really?! That MTV Unplugged mush....? No way.
As it stands, it is quite a good mellow bit of music. But they were big way before then!
And yes they covered The Man who Sold the World, but they also covered other tracks & did a load of their own stuff.....that track was hardly the defining moment of the evening (for me.....I prefer their version of Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam to the David Bowie cover and the moment when Kurt asks in the background 'what are they tuning........a harp?' between songs).
You only got to do MTV unplugged if you were already a successful act.
Perhaps MTV unplugged was a breakthrough for them, but only to all the people who wanted to like Nirvana but preferred to listen to them with the edges smoothed off, the distortion pedal disconnected & the volume no louder than a 5 on the dial.....
Ro5ey - MemberLets take a look at the band that, more than any other, was the rebellion against over produced noise .... Nirvana.
Surely Nirvana was the media friendly pop version of the grunge scene that was coming out of North West US. I always preferred Mud Honey.
Has Nirvana died as well now? 😥
dazh - Member
but is it really necessary to speak ill of the dead? but is it really necessary to speak ill of the dead?
It's neither about speaking ill of the dead or not liking him. Simply a response to the quite frankly hysterical reaction of both the media and a large chunk of the population to the death of a man who whilst unquestionably inspirational and a musical genius, also had a serious dark side which people should be open about, rather than conveniently ignoring them because it doesn't suit the collective idea of him.
As I quite rightly agreed and can be argued without saying he should have been shot because one tune didn't meet with the criterior of at least one particular commentator here. We all live our lives we all make mistakes as indeed he did, that was another quality, not fearing the consequence of breaking new ground, you don't alwys get it right, but to most he got it right more often than he got it wrong. Will I be as upset when Paul McCartney, or Mick Jagger wend their merry way to their maker, I don't think so. You needed to have been young, vulnerable or just plain confused at the time he came on the scene, to really appreciate what he did, the rest is what he can be criticisd for just a Pop star, but he was [i]THE[/i] star that broke the ground for everyone else, and I'd love a quid for every time he's been sampled. You could say the same about Jerry Lee, or Chuck Berry, but they were not quite as artistic nor were their lyrics in the same league, anyway far be it from me to continue eulogising on a thread that's about being fed up with it, I'm just saying 'kids, show some respect for your elders' and betters in this case. 😉
is this how the OP expected the thread to go...
bluehelmet living up to the latter part of his user name there ^^^^
Of course he did. It is STW 🙂
I always preferred Mud Honey.
Mudhoney, no?
grum - Member
bluehelmet living up to the latter part of his user name there ^^^^
And you're here to say what Mr Grum, something pertinent about the mass hysteria, something horrid about Mr Bowie, or to just emulate a male chicken?
bluehelmet
I'm just saying 'kids, show some respect for your elders' and betters in this case.
Was he better than us because he was richer, or because he was more famous?
jimjam - Member
bluehelmet
I'm just saying 'kids, show some respect for your elders' and betters in this case.
Was he better than us because he was richer, or bacuase he was more famous?
I can't possibly answer that individually for all I know you could be a living saint, but to generalise, he was better than those being nasty about someone who is dead on an internet forum, OK?
Lets take a look at the band that, more than any other, was the rebellion against over produced noise .... Nirvana.And now lets look at their big break through moment ... Live in New York ... and one of the stand out tracks that evening...?
The Man Who Sold the World ... written by ... Bowie, of course
Recorded in November 1993, two months after In Utero (their final album) and over two years since the release of Nevermind which knocked Michael Jackson off of the Billboard number one spot.
So you were saying?
Bluehelmet - who is being nasty? Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade, if you do things with underage groupies then you deserve to be called to account. It's exactly attitudes like yours that allow sex crimes like this to be buried. Maybe if people were a bit more open and not made to feel like they were rocking the boat more of those in positions of power would be held to account and justice could be done. What's nasty is sleeping with 12-15yo children and, despite public knowledge, getting away with it for decades afterwards (one wonders who Roman Polanski pissed off so badly for them to bother with him).
And you're here to say what Mr Grum, something pertinent about the mass hysteria, something horrid about Mr Bowie, or to just emulate a male chicken?
You were being [i]incredibly[/i] patronising up there and confusing your own opinions for some kind of objective fact.
You'll not see me going into the appreciation thread and being such a tool.
We all live our lives we all make mistakes as indeed he did, that was another quality, not fearing the consequence of breaking new ground, you don't alwys get it right, but to most he got it right more often than he got it wrong.
That's a very generous way of putting 'using your fame to shag very young girls and supporting fascism'. I've never 'made mistakes' like that.
I've never 'made mistakes' like that.
……..searches forum…..
grum is a well known fascist. Christ...who didn't know that? 😀
You have never lived have you.I've never 'made mistakes' like that.
[quote=Junkyard ]You have never lived have you.
We have a new euphemism. Have you lived, JY?
i have done things you people wont believe
Like leaving the house? 8)
wow --the blue helmet needs to change his colour to purple 😉
It's threads like these that highlight how much more some people must be watching the daily "whatever happened today" than me.
I've honestly not noticed anything outside this forum. Biggest thing I've seen today is a guy swimming with a pack of Labradors.
Jerry Lee, or Chuck Berry
Jerry Lee Lewis got a lot of negative press for legally marrying a 13 year old and Chuck did time for taking a 14 year old across state lines. David and Angie Bowie, Iggy Pop, Page lived through more tolerant times with different morals. It's not as if there was any secret around the antics of the stars and groupies at the time. Now were back to the 50s, the age of consent in Spain was 13 up until last year and several countries have increased.
I suspect that if the "crimes" had been committed in the UK or more recently, charges would have been brought but Sunset Strip is in the US.
However I found Bowie's fascist period distasteful at the time, still do and even if no crime was committed still find his words more objectionable than his 70s decadence.
I've honestly not noticed anything outside this forum
You should get out more.
grum - Member
And you're here to say what Mr Grum, something pertinent about the mass hysteria, something horrid about Mr Bowie, or to just emulate a male chicken?
You were being incredibly patronising up there and confusing your own opinions for some kind of objective fact.You'll not see me going into the appreciation thread and being such a tool.
We all live our lives we all make mistakes as indeed he did, that was another quality, not fearing the consequence of breaking new ground, you don't alwys get it right, but to most he got it right more often than he got it wrong.
That's a very generous way of putting 'using your fame to shag very young girls and supporting fascism'. I've never 'made mistakes' like that.
So it's not about the media frenzy at all then? It's just the green eyed monster? Sorry you missed the seventies where everybody got to shag underage girls/boys.? And there was I thinking you'd all had enough talking about him. So I'm sorry you thought I was patronising, it wasn't meant to come across like that, as for being nasty so far someone thinks he should be shot, someone else that he's a paedo and should be considered right up there with that nonce Savile, that by the way everyone knew about at the time but was protected by the same outfit that goes on protecting the same type of people this very day - Freemasons, I expect he'll be accused of that before long , so therefore I'm out of this thread it's not going anywhere nice is it?
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the age of consent in Spain was 13 up until last year and several countries have increased.
It, age of consent, has been 18 in California for about 100 years, unless you are married!
David and Angie Bowie, Iggy Pop, Page lived through more tolerant times with different morals
So what about Roman Polanski?
So it's not about the media frenzy at all then? It's just the green eyed monster? Sorry you missed the seventies where everybody got to shag underage girls/boys.? And there was I thinking you'd all had enough talking about him. So I'm sorry you thought I was patronising, it wasn't meant to come across like that, as for being nasty so far someone thinks he should be shot, someone else that he's a paedo and should be considered right up there with that nonce Savile, that by the way everyone knew about at the time but was protected by the same outfit that goes on protecting the same type of people this very day - Freemasons, I expect he'll be accused of that before long , so therefore I'm out of this thread it's not going anywhere nice is it?
By "not going anywhere nice" I presume you mean not going your way. If Savile was a nonce what do you call someone who shags 12-15 year olds? Hero? Legend? Ziggy?
Polanski. well if the groupies were more than willing by their own accounts and no complaints were lodged by them or their families, in the case of Polanski:
"Geimer testified that Polanski provided champagne that they shared as well as part of a quaalude,[17] and despite her protests, he performed oral, vaginal, and anal sex acts upon her,[18][19] each time after being told 'no' and being asked to stop"
You should get out more.
Too much fun at home right now.
3rd beer and a mouthful of Hungarian Sausage whilst listening to Black Sabbath. If the alternative is bickering about appropriate percentiles of news output. Well, **** the world and show me oblivion through a Tesco Finest Cider.
#goodtimetocutmyownhair
#soundsworsethanitis
Saville abused his position and his victims were in car homes.
I don't think being seduced by someone under age is the same as raping someone under age. Not that I'd do either or even encourage the former. I was never a part of the "free love", "hippie", "alternative" or any variation of such a life style. I do remember the groupies becoming stars in their own right though with lots of media coverage. I can still remember an interview with a mother who clearly thought her daughter was doing rather well for herself though can't remember the name of the girl or how old she was.
I don't think being seduced by someone under age is the same as raping someone under age
In the eyes of the law it's pretty much the same thing, statutory rape.
Saville abused his position
Are you suggesting Bowie, Page, Jagger etc. didn't?
I don't think being seduced by someone under age is the same as raping someone under age.
No, it's not the same but there's still no excusing it. Whether or not they consented they were still children.
[url= http://ultimateclassicrock.com/bill-wyman-mandy-smith/ ]Mandy Smith and Bill Wyman[/url]
Edit: Note Wyman went to the police but they weren't interest. Consent, parental agreement, true love, a marriage - mitigating circumstances that mean something to me. On the other hand I can't find any mitigating circumstances for Cyril Smith or Saville.
Remember all the grief tourists surrounding Jackson and this ensuing song?
😆
don't think being seduced by someone under age is the same as raping someone under age.
Jesus wept. Someone doesn't understand the concept of consent.
a mouthful of Hungarian Sausage
I wondered where István had got to. Tell him I miss him won't you? 🙁
Evening, Konabunny. Sleep tight.