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I have just been down on the train to Manchester for the weekend. On the train down 99% wearing masks. On suburban trains in Manchester 10% wearing them despite repeated requests to do so
train back to Edinburgh 40% mask wearing despite being asked to do so and even told its a legal requirement once over the border. funnily enough most passengers had masks on when leaving the train.
I was just stunned by the difference - here in Edinburgh mask compliance is still basically around 90+ % - in Manchester it was in general less than 25% on a rough count - few people bothering in any circumstances despite signs and announcements
Jeepers Johnson has a lot to answer for and blood on his hands.
Likewise, but down in London this weekend. Few not wearing them on way down. Very little masks on the under/over ground, sometimes to the point that we are the only ones in some places. Me and the better half very shocked at it. Glad I'm back tomorrow
Different jurisdiction different rules (mostly).
Yeah, I'm in Bristol and it feels like everyone has just given up lately. I still stay away from shops where possible but i nipped round to the local polish shop this evening to get a lemon. Of about 15 staff and customers in the shop, I was the only person with a mask on. I got out of there quick sharp!
Different jurisdiction different rules (mostly).
Indeed - but so few down south wearing masks when asked to do so compared with here
Yes its still legally mandated in some places here IIRC - but there is no enforcement
@Oldtennisshoes, I thought masks were mandatory on public transport still no matter of geography, hence the public service announcements every 5-10 mins
+1
The family met friends in Carlisle last week. They felt that only about a third of people were wearing masks.
Yesterday we went to IKEA in Glasgow. We saw two other families not wearing masks - and two other people tell them to put masks on.
, I thought masks were mandatory on public transport still no matter of geography, hence the public service announcements every 5-10 mins
They are but without any legal backing - the railways made a rule that mask wearing is to continue but its basically ignored - because Johnson is too scared of his libertarian back benches to mandate masks legally.
From our weekend in Edinburgh last weekend, I'm not so sure it's that high up there. Jnrs positive test result since coming home wasn't the souvenir we were hoping to bring back.
But its definitely worse down here in England.
I thought masks were mandatory on public transport still
They're mandatory in the sense that they're part of the operator's terms of service not because its a legal requirement. But the only sanction available to the operators is to refuse service which is difficult once you're a moving train.
Morecash - the town centre is full of non residents mainly from england! get a mile away from Princes street and you see a different picture
Hope your lad is OK
Back in July we travelled up from Yorkshire to Scotland for a week. The difference then was stark; a motorway service station in england (Tebay) was barely different from pre covid, in scotland (Annandale Services) there was (about) 90% mask wearing, one way systems being adhered to, 2m gaps being adhered to etc.
Back home I wear a mask in all public buildings unless im eating/drinking, but I am now in the minority. Last time I was on the Train, i'd estimate one in five had masks on.
Morecash – the town centre is full of non residents mainly from england! get a mile away from Princes street and you see a different picture
Hope your lad is OK
Aye, that occurred to me after I posted. Lad is OK thanks, started Tuesday with a bad cold, tested positive Thursday, confirmed by PCR Friday, lost sense of smell but not taste.
He's just 18, and pissed he can't have his second jab next week.
in letchworth garden city,
Lidl/Sainsburys more in the outskirts/suburbs is 80% compliance
Morrisons town centre is 40% at best, bit of a zoo
Welcome to the big Herd Immunity fun festival.
Please say things like :-
"Let’s get this sorted before Xmas"
"It's no worse than the flu"
"Don't panic, get those holidays booked"
"Hit the dance floor"
"Were you at the match?"
"That long Covid is all in your imagination"
🙄
Yeah England has been out of restrictions now for around 6 weeks, in that time people are slowly easing wearing masks. I went to a party in a club Friday night, first time I didn’t even put a mask in my pocket. It’s now becoming the norm not to wear them, Scotland will catch up.
the town centre is full of non residents mainly from england! get a mile away from Princes street and you see a different picture
To be fair that was my experience of London last week, stayed in Earls Court, and spent quite a bit of time out and about there as well as central London. Mask wearing was fairly good where we stayed but rubbish around Leicester Square where the (UK) tourists were.
Don't make the assumption Scotland is any different, as soon as Sturgeon removes the requirement to wear masks Scots will be as bad as anywhere.
2 thoughts....
We (Scotland)have got some of the worst rates in the UK despite our amazeballs mask wearing.
Secondly, the whole wearing a mask thing is more about protecting others and less about yourself. Surely continuing to wear one yourself if others have stopped is mostly a lost cause if you are concerned about your personal health entering a public place?
London is one of only two regions (the other being Yorks & Humberside) were infection rates are not rising, I still think mask wearing should have been retained and I still wear mine in some places
Jeepers Johnson has a lot to answer for and blood on his hands.
It's an odd regional thing. I was in North Devon and mask wearing was the norm with the tourists. Back in the NW and mask wearing is noticeably lower. Venues still maintaining older restrictions.
Facebook probably more to blame than anything else. I would try places like Paisley before defining it as a English/Scottish thing
@Oldtennisshoes, I thought masks were mandatory on public transport still no matter of geography, hence the public service announcements every 5-10 mins
IIRC a difference in the rules on trains in England vs Scotland caused some consternation a wee while back. See different wording on LNER website
Rules vs Laws innit
Ugh, petty nationalism at its worst.
What you've compared is Edinburgh vs a part of a city in England. Don't try to make out that Scots are superior to English, cos it's not true and it's very distasteful.
Don’t try to make out that Scots are superior to English
He hasn’t done so on first reading. He has suggested that the countries are currently on different paths as regards mask wearing due to different political leadership.
I went to a party in a club Friday night, first time I didn’t even put a mask in my pocket.
I’m surprised at that to be honest Drac.
polish shop this evening to get a lemon
Should have bought an orange, much better sheen.
I’m surprised at that to be honest Drac.
I'm not. Like he says, six weeks, herd mentality, all it takes. Turns out Covid isn't the only thing we're not immune to.
I’m surprised at that to be honest Drac.
It felt odd, very odd. I was an all day event yesterday, I was outside all day, but even when I went to the bar or toilet I didn’t wear one. I’ll continue at work and will still when off and at some places, but I’m feeling comfortable not wearing one. Still test every day, big on hand hygiene and my office area plus car is wiped at the start of the shift.
V high mask compliance here in Arnside (elderly wealthy liberal population) very low in Leeds city centre last week (broad mix of people).
As above Scotland's rates are pretty awful right now so it makes sense if people are being more careful. I still think wearing them in situations where you will be in close proximity to people is sensible but I find myself doing it less as everyone else does too.
Pure bloody selfishness. Self Self Self
Remember the mask is not going to prevent you from catching covid, it is to protect other people, or help to rather.
Those as you see deciding not to wear it, have zero interest in other peoples protection.
The brutal truth is that masks are a sticky plaster now, you can go and eat at any restaurant, or drink in any pub without a mask, or go to festivals, nightclubs or whatever now and they're not required, same with wider mixing at work, schools, etc, we're at the point where they're happy that the hospitals aren't beyond their capacity just yet, and the thought of any further restrictions terrifies politicians and the public alike.
We're now in the phase of living with 'Covid', so it'll be an annual thing like the flu, with some sort of acceptable levels associated with it from now on.
I saw a Sage scientist recently suggesting that with such low hospitalisation/death rates we could actually be at a point where for most people getting covid wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'll try and find the article.
Doesn't apply to v high risk people though presumably :-/
It’s now becoming the norm not to wear them, Scotland will catch up.
This is one aspect where I’m fairly happy to be lagging behind. Although to be fair I’m not convinced it makes much difference. Might have to wait until English schools go back to draw that comparison.
so it’ll be an annual thing like the flu
Eventually it will be, but we haven't quite got to that stage yet.
Removing the mask mandate makes mask-avoiding contagious. As soon as people see a lot of people not wearing them, they feel like the odd one out, so they don't either, and so on, until only a handful of people who don't give a shit about peer pressure have them on.
What you’ve compared is Edinburgh vs a part of a city in England.
Yup exactly that. When I’ve been in Newcastle most people still wear them in shops and smaller bars. I went to Gateshead Metro Centre to kill time while waiting on my car, I left very quickly as loads weren’t.
I was thinking the opposite regarding Edinburgh. On Friday I went to Screwfix after work, 3 people in front of me, none of them wearing masks. Drove past a busy take a way at the top of Leith walk, couldnt see any masks, then I noticed a taxi where none of the passengers were wearing masks. Last night whilst waiting for my chinese take a way four other people came in to order/collect and only one was wearing a mask. I don't think we're any better and the numbers seem to back that up. But you're right😃 it is a different country as my in laws are quick to point out.
tbh masks are a nice security blanket, and I don't mind people using them, I think when ever someone has a cold they should wear one.
But whether people wear them or don't, they aren't a particularly big driver in infections one way or the other. You just need to look at the rise in Scotland at the minute. It's other factors driving things.
btw mask wearing isn't universal up here. Go to a fitba game, a normal bar etc, there's a billion situations where people aren't wearing masks up here. I think you are guilty of living in your own wee bubble in that respect.
What do you think mask wearing is like in Cardiff? Are we a bit better than those English, or not? I mean Wales voted for Brexit, so maybe we're not that good.
I was thinking the opposite regarding Edinburgh. On Friday I went to Screwfix after work, 3 people in front of me, none of them wearing masks. Drove past a busy take a way at the top of Leith walk, couldnt see any masks, then I noticed a taxi where none of the passengers were wearing masks. Last night whilst waiting for my chinese take a way four other people came in to order/collect and only one was wearing a mask. I don’t think we’re any better and the numbers seem to back that up. But you’re right😃 it is a different country as my in laws are quick to point out.
Must be all the none residents, mainly English.
In TJ's defence I read it that it is two sets of diverging governance with populations acting differently accordingly. Our last few lots of English guests at our Highland holiday home have all commented on having to remember their masks when out and about because they had got of the habit at home.
You could find some distasteful nationalism in that if it floats your boat.
A COVID-19 secure Hadrian's Wall needs building to keep the dirty English contained.
😉
oldtennisshoes, I see the difference now, I did actually think it was mandatory. Like you say law/rules - two different things.
Morecash, hope junior gets well soon
I am also not trying to make it sound like "Scotland is superior" as the stats are certainly not saying that and also believe that the same will happen with mask wearing when wee jimmie krankie changes our laws.
Still strange for me to see though
I'm over in England now for my brother's wedding and likewise, I am totally shocked (but not surprised) by the lack of mask wearing here. Back in Spain it is still obligatory / the law to wear face coverings in any indoor space, although you can take them off outside if you can maintain a 1.5m distance from others. However, the vast majority of people still keep their masks on outdoors too.
When I got off the plane in Manchester around 50% of people weren't wearing masks in the airport. When I got on the train that went up to 90% who weren't wearing masks on the train itself, not just in the airport station.
Stay safe out there people. There's a lot of stupid folk in this country.
In TJ’s defence I read it that it is two sets of diverging governance with populations acting differently accordingly.
He hasn’t done so on first reading. He has suggested that the countries are currently on different paths as regards mask wearing due to different political leadership.
This
At no point did I attach any values to this so no " better"
Nor was it a part of one city to a part of another - it was the behaviour on public transport in two differnt cities was so differnt
I thought masks were mandatory on public transport still no matter of geography, hence the public service announcements every 5-10 mins
I had a cathartic rant by email to LNER a few weeks ago when I was the only person on the train wearing a mask, including the staff. I was told that they can ask passengers to wear masks but that's the limit, and they are legally required to transport them if they have a ticket and have broken no laws.
If you're not wearing a mask you won't be sitting on the empty seats next to or opposite me on a train.
Not sure what they can do about their staff. I'd get sacked if I didn't wear one when at work.
Might have to wait until English schools go back to draw that comparison.
I don't think this comment got enough attention the first time around.
In Norway we're seeing a massive spike in cases which just happened to coincide with the schools going back.
Missus and me went to that there London on Saturday to see a show.
Train was about 25% mask wearers (Inc us).
It was a gamble TBH but she's in need of some "normality" the last 18 months has frankly driven her batshit...
The show was otherwise ok, most wore masks to/from seats and attendees had to show recent covid test proof.
But my Missus got a bit panicked by the sheer number of people in the streets and cramming into pubs (all maskless) when we came out. It was beyond typical pre-covid levels I reckon, but then the combination of things; less foreign travel, the government essentially letting the brakes off, a bank holiday, extinction rebellion protests... So we just too a cab back to the station.
There's going to be a couple to "waves" to the infection rates in England I reckon. The first from by the nicer weather and bank hol this last week the second by the kids going back to schools... I'd expect it to hit mid to late September and carry through to mid October.
The question is really going to be severety. Do deaths track with infections as they did during 2020?
Ultimately this is what Boris wants, us out throwing our money at pubs and shops, while testing out "herd immunity"...
Indeed – but so few down south wearing masks when asked to do so compared with here
It's optional.
And thank god it is. If some need a dirty piece of cloth wrapped around their head to get themselves through the day, then crack on.
Dropped into the Green welly stop on the way to Oban this weekend. It was like being in England with respect to the mask wearing. Almost non-existent. Mostly English accents, probably off the two or three large coaches parked outside.
"Masks are for bedwetters in Inglund cos weer well ard and weev got bigger cocks than anyone else".
It won't be quite so funny when the schools are back, a new variant (caused by abandoning a few basic protective measures with a partly vaccinated population) is on the loose and local lockdowns are reintroduced. National lockdowns are impossible politically now. There are many double-vaccinated people in their 20s and 30s suffering quite badly with covid symptoms at the moment. Keep high levels of it circulating by being bellends just increases the chances of transmission, increases the chances of any given transmission being of a higher dose and increases the chances of cultivating a new variant of concern.
But hey, until then, **** it. Pass me that pint of Carling and I'll neck it in one to prove how much of a man I am.
🏴💦🍆🏴
The question is really going to be severety. Do deaths track with infections as they did during 2020?
Without trying to tread on the huge Covid thread. No, infection rates may be increasing but deaths and hospital admissions are lower compared to last year.
if we’re doing anecdotal evidence. During the softish school holidays we had a lot of Scottish visiting, as per normal. Some weren’t wearing masks, some were. I’ve no idea how many as I didn’t take any notice.
Keep high levels of it circulating by being bellends just increases the chances of transmission, increases the chances of any given transmission being of a higher dose and increases the chances of cultivating a new variant of concern.
But hey, until then, **** it. Pass me that pint of
CarlingTennents
Aye,looks like the Celtic-Rangers match went well, probably all fans from down south though.
But hey, until then, * it. Pass me that pint of Carling and I’ll neck it in one to prove how much of a man I am.
I'll look differently at those old couples and mums in Aldi next time, they must be right hard b*es. Bet they have tattoos and everything.
It’s optional.
So is being a knuckle-dragging shitkicker, but one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise on taking a stroll through an English town centre.
We had a couple of days stay in st abbs last week. Popped down to Berwick one of the days and was pleasantly surprised that the majority were wearing face coverings and keeping as much distance as they can. I honestly thought that given the choice, most wouldn't.
Edit: CBA.
About 10 days ago I camped with my g/f near Chatsworth House, Chesterfield.
No-one was wearing masks! Down here in sleepy Wilts/Dorset border, people are still reasonably compliant.
No idea what the factors are but it was noticeable.
Why would you wear a mask on a campsite?
ads678 - Beat me to it.
had to show recent covid test proof.
How do they do that in theatres?
My daughter is down in that there London for an event. There was talk of having to use the NHS app to show proof of a negative (FLT) test, but that only seems to work in England and Wales and doesn't cover Scotland. Presumably theatres don't have a bar on Scots (or other overseas visitors), so how do these people show proof of a negative test?
For all the Scottish government's nonsense oneupmanship and determination to do things differently to Westminster, the truth is... it hasn't made a blind bit of difference. Covid deaths per capita have been lower in several regions of England than in Scotland.
It's amazing how the tinpot nationalism of the SNP is somehow seen as brave and enlightened, when the flag waving idiots running Westminster are rightfully pilloried for it.
Double jabbed here and getting on with life. Enough of this horse shit. It's not a different country, it's the same bloody country.
So is being a knuckle-dragging shitkicker, but one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise on taking a stroll through an English town centre.
You still need that hug, so angry all the time.
It’s not a different country, it’s the same bloody country.
Yes, when you can't close the border with a neighboring country it does limit the effectiveness of any measures your government implements.
Why would you wear a mask on a campsite?
Shared shower/bathing/toilet facilities. Otherwise not a problem.
You still need that hug, so angry all the time.
I fear you would crush me with your testosterone fuelled alpha maleness.
There’s a difference to wearing one outside with moving air - I haven’t worn one for absolutely ages, but I do if I go into a shop, and the majority seem to do that as well. I do see people out walking around wearing a mask, but it’s not really necessary providing people maintain a reasonable distance. I was sat outside a pub yesterday afternoon, talking to various people, and nobody was wearing a mask, neither were those sat inside, because it’s not, and never has been, a requirement. I put mine on to go in and order, though, as do most people.
I’ve got two gigs this weekend, so it’ll be interesting to see how people manage those.
It’s not a different country, it’s the same bloody country.
So what is England then if it's not a country?
so how do these people show proof of a negative test?
Given that you self report the results it's not really proof of anything anyway is it. You don't even have to take a test to register online that you have.
Maybe Scots just need a printout of something, which is equally useless?
So what is England then if it’s not a country?
I've read up on this a few times but I can never remember properly. I think England is a country but not a nation/state.
had to show recent covid test proof.
How do they do that in theatres?
Had to do this for a show at Edinburgh Corn Exchange when we were up there - just need to show the email/text from NHS confirming receipt of your report of your negative LFT test.
Obviously, everyone is going to be scrupulously honest when they report their LFT aren't they?
I was thinking the opposite regarding Edinburgh
Similar here, but Hermiston Gate and Haymarket, nowhere near 90%.
As for where I live in Fife rammed full of day trippers for most of the summer laughably far away from 90% for a couple of months now.
I’ve read up on this a few times but I can never remember properly. I think England is a country but not a nation/state.
For the purposes of Covid it's irrelevant.
You can't close the borders like Norway was able to do with Sweden when Sweden was running it's 'experiment' in infection control. Therefore Norway wasn't affected by Sweden's policies.
Scotland has been very much affected by England's policies because Scotland wasn't able to close it's border. For the purposes of this discussion they are one country.
If you want to get into the dictionary definitions of country/state/principality/kingdom that's another thread, I reckon.
Big'n'daft - there's certainly variation between areas in Scotland, but even in the roughest parts the rate of compliance is higher than in the best bits of England and S. Wales I was in last week for work. The contrast was stark as TJ noted. Molgrips - Cardiff was slightly better than Bristol, but not as good as the Lothians (even the dodgy bits!) - I've not been in central edinburgh since the latest rule changes!
But whether people wear them or don’t, they aren’t a particularly big driver in infections one way or the other. You just need to look at the rise in Scotland at the minute. It’s other factors driving things.
Well, I think there are so many conflated factors nobody can say that for sure, as you noted yourself:
btw mask wearing isn’t universal up here. Go to a fitba game, a normal bar etc, there’s a billion situations where people aren’t wearing masks up here. I think you are guilty of living in your own wee bubble in that respect.
Packed venues is clearly an issue. Packed venues with no masks intuitively must be worse. Add in alcohol and its no wonder the numbers are shooting up here. Clearly schools are an issue too. I don't know anyone who's a strict mask wearer and double vaccinated who has picked covid up through activities where they were wearing a face-covering / generally socially distancing. i.e. not in a pub or similar place, or who aren't forced to spend time with the public through employment etc.
So I think masks potentially are a contributor to keeping numbers low, but we let people remove them in some of the worst settings (pubs, clubs etc) and so the benefits are diminished. Schools are clearly a source of spread just now, and masks are worn in Scottish schools but there's no social distancing now (1m to teacher none to other pupils) and there's clearly close mixing outside schools. England will have an advantage that more 16/17 yr olds will be at least partially vaccinated by the time they return but the decision for no masks there seems bold. Hopefully the numbers don't run so out of control that NHS can't cope or a new variant emerges and lockdowns are back. It does feel as though both sides of the border people have just said, ah **** it lets get on with life. Changing that position feels like it will be really hard.
Flu season could be interesting - the covid mitigations clearly massively reduced it last year.
I fear you would crush me with your testosterone fuelled alpha maleness.
C'mon now, I'll be gentle. Might even give you a little peck on the cheeks.
Obviously, everyone is going to be scrupulously honest when they report their LFT aren’t they?
Positive tests will be higher if the result is paid sick leave. Lower if the result is not being allowed out on the piss.
🏴🍆💦🏴🍻
C’mon now, I’ll be gentle. Might even give you a little peck on the cheeks.
That's very considerate. I was expecting just a whack over the head with a club and being dragged into a cave. I suppose that comes later....
It’s not just limited to the English.
Anyone remember this back in May? One mask visible in that photo, on someone’s chin. Much social distancing going on here?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/health-chiefs-may-never-know-24130414
Or are they just English tourists lost on a day trip?
So much holier than thou shite on here by some people.
By the way, as a Welshman living in middle England, mask wearing inside the few shopping centres I’ve been in seems to be fairly high, and not just by the older or middle class folks.
So much holier than thou shite on here by some people.
If you wear a mask in indoor settings where there are lots of people, nothing crazy - just what the rules were back in April say, then yes, you are 'holier' than someone who doesn't.
It doesn't take much, it is not a lot to ask. But some people have a need to show they aren't scared of nuffin, or suchlike. They'll be the first to go hysterical if any form of lockdown measures are needed again in the next 12 months.
I think they will. Doubly-vaccinated people are still getting seriously ill in significant numbers, schools will be going back with pretty much 100% unvaccinated kids. I don't see the point of playing chicken with a virus when some of the most effective measures are not very onerous at all.
🤷♂️
If you wear a mask in indoor settings where there are lots of people, nothing crazy – just what the rules were back in April say, then yes, you are ‘holier’ than someone who doesn’t.
The LAW still requires you to wear one in Scotland - thats the point. Nothing holier than thou but in Scotland mask wearing indoors in places and on public transport is still required by law and the vast majority comply. In england its now optional and very few folk do wear them
Just pointing out a huge differnce that I noted on my day down south
I live down in Kent and I'm saddened to say that mask wearing has dropped off a cliff.
My local co-op always had almost everyone, customers and staff, wearing masks whilst it was mandatory. Now most staff still are but only say, 1 in 10 customers now are.
Trips to other shops seem to show a similar percentage.
As mentioned above, the anti mask lot will be the first to complain if elements of lock down are reintroduced. To be clear,I don't think that most non mask wearers are anti mask. Peer pressure and (mainly) mixed government messaging have played a huge part unfortunately.
What will be will be I suppose. Sigh...
Joe
Free MemberFor all the Scottish government’s nonsense oneupmanship and determination to do things differently to Westminster, the truth is… it hasn’t made a blind bit of difference. Covid deaths per capita have been lower in several regions of England than in Scotland.
That is simply untrue.
There is only one area of England that has a lower death rate than Scotland, the outlier of the South East. No others really come close. Some are closer to double, including the two English regions closest to Scotland.
Cherrypicking individual areas of England to compare with the whole of Scotland aside, scotland's overall rate is 148 per 100000 and England's is 205 per 100000. Of course it can't all be simply attributed to covid policy differences but even so it's a huge difference. About 30000 lives you're handwaving away to score a political point.
So this thread seems to have been started because someone is amazed/disgruntled that more people wear masks when its legal requirement compared with it just being a recommendation. No shit sherlock 🤔
I was back in the UK the weekend before last to try and support my mother while my father was lying in Intensive Care ( see thread about waiting 8 hours for an ambulance). The incidence rate was well over three hundred in the area and I was completely shocked about how few people were wearing masks in the local shopping centre. Here in Germany the mask mandate only ends if the incidence rate stays below 10 for more than two weeks and even then most people here still wore one in the shops. A level of three hundred plus would have us in a partial lockdown and non essential businesses would have to close again. But in this part of England it was a free for all! 🤷♂️
Germany
A proper country populated by grownups in the most part.
England
The opposite.