Engineers - anyone stopped paying IMechE membership?

I would speak to them about how long the CEng certificate is valid for if you were to leave. I don't think it remains 'valid' if you leave, otherwise people would just pay for a few years, get their CEng & immediately leave.

I never bothered going for chartered status - could never see what the direct benefit to me was & it seemed like an awful lot of work.
I left the IMechE a few years back & joined the IET as it seemed a bit less of an old boys club & a bit less stuffy.
I was working for chartered with them, but again I am really not sure it is worth the bother & am considering not renewing my subs this year.

I was in London on a day-out last year & while walking along the Thames, stumbled across the HQ of the IET, near the Savoy. My thought was.....ah, so that's where my membership money goes!!

In theory, you need to keep your individual Institute membership in order to stay on the Engineering Council's register. In my case, (Institute of Marine Engineers), when I realized I was not only getting no benefit from it, but found the I.Mar.E. didn't even provide the level of professional support that they promised, I decided to save my money. I then continued to use my C.Eng status without problems for several years. While it was something that initially helped me in my work (LR) it was not a condition of employment that I continued my registration.
As you state, they can't take away the fact that you were registered; the CPD bit would probably have to be addressed if you wanted to rejoin in future.

If you are chartered i can see why you might want to continue. I worked in automtive so there was never a requirement for it. Some engineering sectors do require it and it might be worth keeping if you are planning on changing jobs soon.

I never understood people who put associate member/affiliate after their name. All that tells anyone is that you have an expensive magazine subscription.

Ah, so not just the IChemE then… very similar thoughts on the value provided by my institute, I certainly would pay if my employer didn’t fork out the £300/yr expenses.

In terms of bing able to use the CEngtitle, this expires the day you don’t pay your fee: you pay the engineering council the fee to allow you to continue using the letters.

Heh, I've just had my membership reminder e-mail this morning too!!

I feel pretty much the same way as you Mowgli ever year when I have to spunk up the money, it really is only for my own professional pride that I bother with it.

Would there be any problems re-joining if at some point in the future I needed professional membership again?

As I understand it, you'd have to go through the whole chartership application process again! It's basically bloody financial handcuffs. I'd like to know if there was a way to just pay the engineering council registration fee without the IMechE costs.

Also rejoining, somebody in my old company tried to do that after several years of not paying (and thus deregistered.) The IChemE wanted all missing years fees paid before allowing him to rejoin! He told them f.uck right off.

Had similar issues rejoining so moved from iMarEST to IET. Wanted to move to iNucE but they required war and peace to justify.

I let mine lapse, work pays but always late and requiring more scrutiny so I didn’t renew.

I’ll just reapply if required, I’m just disillusioned by all the institutes they wanted me to join for no real personal benefit.

I cancelled my RICS over 20 years ago as they weren't providing any support for my discipline (pre-construction) and haven't looked back. Its not affected me advancing or moving employers, I still get industry updates through employer, consultants and media. Have though of alternatives ie CIOB which is more applicable but not really felt the need.

If you require the letters (ie for PI insurance) then you may be stuck, but if in employment and supported by your employer then nothing to lose.

I then continued to use my C.Eng status without problems for several years.

youll fall foul of using the letters if anything goes wrong as mr barrister will have a way to discredit you. As long as you dont claim to be chartered after lapsing you`ll be OK.

I`m not convinced i got a huge amount of benefit our of my ICE membership up to this year but since setting up my business its definately helped. (insurance, winning work etc) .

Its also desireable for companies as you can officially 'check' work and signoff work as a chartered engineer under their insurance terms. this isnt an issue in the real world where there are often a few other chartered in teh company (and someone elses name goes in teh approved box) but in small businesses the chartered status really does affect premiums and what you can actually be insured to do.

so for me i`ll keep paying.

I certainly would pay if my employer didn’t fork out the £300/yr expenses."

Sorry, TYPO: I wouldn't pay IChemE fees if my company didn't cover it...

I was in London on a day-out last year & while walking along the Thames, stumbled across the HQ of the IET, near the Savoy. My thought was…..ah, so that’s where my membership money goes!!

It's a nice place, good place to hot desk, have a coffee + work overlooking the Thames. Some interesting exhibits too.

But I've stopped paying for IET, didn't make any sense for me.

I have to say that I've been wondering what the point of the Institutes are nowadays. I still haven't completed my CEng after 25 years of engineering. Not planning on either despite the comments from senior managers at work.

With authorities to work and evaluations by clients on your capabilities to work on projects it seems a little odd to have a single general professional review. Well at least for civil engineering; with so many areas to specialise in you still need a project evaluation even if chartered.

I have considered not paying the fee's plenty of times (just recently in fact) but I worked hard to get my Degree and to achieve the CEng status and I think it differentiates me from others - plus my company pay for it provided I take part in our Mentoring scheme.

So I pay up and use the letters after my name.

PS; I work in the automotive sector

I never understood people who put associate member/affiliate after their name. All that tells anyone is that you have an expensive magazine subscription.

My company insists, and is pushing me just to complete the initial application process to become a member, just for the additional letters!

We are a small team though so perhaps it helps with PUI premiums etc. as someone stated above.

HOWEVER they pretty much expect me to complete 4500 word application in my own time, over and above the additional hours required just to manage the day job, so there's little chance of it ever happening.

All of the comments above just confirm my suspicions that I'd be better spending the time and (someone else's) money taking additional training that might actually assist in my development as an engineer. Preferably learning techniques to suspend the passage of time so I can fit 10hr days in around family life and riding my bloody bike occasionally 🙄

On the subject of the IET, there is a debate ongoing on their electrical forum about Membership.
Apparently, the members paying are dropping very fast.
There is little, if any support for them on the Forum.
I gave mine up around 2 years ago, £150 a year for pretty much nothing, as said above, professional pride in saying you have a few letters after your name that the IET have conferred on you after paying the fee to them, is not worth £150 a year.
If I worked in Central London, maybe it would be different, as I could go to Head Office regularly to use their library/cafe/restaurant, but, living 100+ miles away, I see no benefit at all.
Oh, and the IET training is ridiculously priced, even for Members, I cant see how anyone would want to pay such amounts when similar is available at half the price.

Your CEng fees are tax deductible..... 😀

Most institutes give you 3 years grace, so you can get your CEng back again if you rejoin, after 3 years, you have to go through the hoops to get it again.

The title Chartered Engineer is only covered in civil law which doesnt make it that well protected. I know lots of people who do have it, and lots who dont have it, and it doesnt seem to affect their careers (in industry).
Lots of job advertised say CEng or in process of applying. A very wishywashy statement. Basically says you dont need it to get the job...

Some companies like it for the 'kudos' to say we have x amount of CEngs, or need it perhaps for their graduate programs, need CEngs to make CEngs.

So, its a nice to have, but doesnt seem to affect careers one jot.

That said - Its time for me to submit my Performance Review Goals for 2022 - CEng will certainly not be one of them.

I'm glad that work pays my IET membership, certainly not worth it if they didn't. Similar to others here I've worked for years without quite ever getting around to getting Chartered so wouldn't even have that incentive.

Ditto but for RICS.

Dropped the racket a few years back.

Just received a timely email from the IMechE saying they need £16-20m to repair and refurb Birdcage Walk. They haven't got enough apparently.

I wouldn't bother if work didn't pay for the renewal. I assume they get something out of it but it has never benefited me. I interview people and cant say I have ever looked for someone to be chartered or found a chartered engineer is better either.

I kept mine till I stopped working, as said above they’re tax deductible, so no real cost.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/professional-fees-and-subscriptions

I got mine as I only had a degree (not an honours degree) and it was sometimes pointed out to me as a lesser qualification by public sector type people and the company I was with at the time (*who did a lot of govt bids) used to pay all fees for everybody’s relevant qualifications, which were submitted as part of every bid.

Looking back I’m pretty confident in saying that all the people who seemed most bothered about qualifications were the ones who ran the most disastrous IT projects.

Just received a timely email from the IMechE saying they need £16-20m to repair and refurb Birdcage Walk. They haven’t got enough apparently.

Ah yes, just read that too. As were getting to vote on a range of remedies I hope one of the options is sell the whole lot and move HQ to Salford where business costs will be significantly cheaper. 😁

I'm with IED (not CEng) but both they and the IET are accredited by the Engineering council to assess competence and award IEng, CEng, etc pricing is probably about on par, but you might be able to shop about and transfer your membership(?)...

TBH IET seem a little better at organising events and seminars, but you often don't need to be a member to register...

If work covers your dues it's certainly worth having CEng and makes you more "billable"... The major reasons to maintain it would be when it comes to future salary negotiations, and of course if/when looking for your next Job. Having CEng on your CV bumps your value/perceived authority in some settings. of the contractors I know, the ones with the extra letters are keen on maintaining CEng as it definitely helps their day rate.

On top of that a big part with IMechE seems to be the 'Networking opportunities' (getting fed and lashed at their London address), if you like a nice lunches and expensing stuff they're the institute to join, and try to get on a Board of Trustees or committee of some sort (So I'm told)... But yeah it's an old boys club, if you can exploit it to your advantage that's basically what it's for, otherwise the others do the same basic job too.

I was just having this thought when I read the subs chaser email earlier.

If my employer wasn't paying, I wouldn't bother. Seems like needless bureaucracy to me. I once had an IMechE guy in for a meeting and all he was talking about was all the jollies business trips he'd been jetting off on. Couldn't help but feel 'oh, so that's where the sub money goes...'

If work covers your dues it’s certainly worth having CEng and makes you more “billable”… The major reasons to maintain it would be when it comes to future salary negotiations, and of course if/when looking for your next Job. Having CEng on your CV bumps your value/perceived authority in some settings. of the contractors I know, the ones with the extra letters are keen on maintaining CEng as it definitely helps their day rate.

Apart from a slim chance of it being a requirement or differentiator at future interviews, none of that applies to a permanent role at a unionised, (therefore collective bargaining) workplace.

Agreed it's probably well worth it for contractors.

as said above they’re tax deductible, so no real cost.

Err, yes, there is a cost, in effect, you are only saving 20% (for low rate tax) of the fee when you claim it as a deductible expense.
Say, for instance it is £100. You claim that £100 on your tax return, so you do not pay tax on that £100, hence only saving you £20 of the fee.

I think i paid for my first year CEng before moving into IT and not bothering with any of the pompous faff and whilst earning more money 🙂

I lapsed my IIE (Now the IET) membership around 19 years ago when I was made redundant. Never picked it back up.

On the subject of the IET, there is a debate ongoing on their electrical forum about Membership.
Apparently, the members paying are dropping very fast.
There is little, if any support for them on the Forum.

I'm amazed anyone joins at all. I've worked in Telecoms for over 30 years, been VP Engineering in a couple of companies running all the SW and HW engineers. Never once took any notice of CEng etc and neither did anyone else. We've tendered and bid for contracts all over the world and no one cared if our engineers were chartered or not.

The only scenario where it might help is if you're a consultant, then the extra letters etc might be worth the fee.

The whole thing is very much Emperors new clothes IMO.

Closest I got was printing off the application form in about 1995, then loosing the will to live and binning it.

Although for some reason I did give a talk at Savoy Place many years ago (multii-dimensional Markov Finite State machines IIRC), I suspect only as it was a 'Personal Development' objective or some such from the days of working at large companies where HR mandate such things.

Well, I only clicked on the thread to say that if you’re CEng you’ll need to keep in the affiliated Institution to maintain that... but I see others have gotten there before me.

I’m in CIBSE, CEng and pay the fees myself (£330 iirc). I was part 1 CEng registered back in 1999 (when I was a graduate member) and then got shunted to affiliate (never put that on my business card/email sig). I was even a registered Low Carbon Consultant for a couple years. There was always some reason not to complete and submit my Membership application (too busy, CBA, etc.) But I moved over to the public sector and they didn’t want my LCC so I let that lapse (but kept on affiliate as it was ~£100/annum). When I moved jobs (Principal Eng) I did the I’m in the process (yup, I was stage 1 reg’d!) and said if I get the job I’ll get it within the year (it actually took 13 or 14 months).

CIBSE does give free access to all their guides, etc., (in PDF) Lthpugh I can also get access via my work (via IHS) and pre-Covid I would have been a bit less, well, enthusiastic about matters.

However, due to covid I’ve attended dozens of webinars (75% have been relevant and worth attending) which I wouldn’t have been able to previously (living in the highlands as I do), I’ve supplemented my electrical knowledge a fair bit (I’m now even a member of the SLL dontcha know) and of course CIBSE issued covid guidance for ventilation (and for return to office checks, etc.). So for me I feel it’s been worth it.

Part of my job is evaluation of external design proposals and the CEng and MCIBSE after my name does demonstrate something (ie professional competence) I feel.

Oh , and personally, I believe that Engineer should have a protected status under law (like other professions).

YMMV.

Still keep paying my CIMA (accountancy) - over £300 and my employer doesn't pay. We're 'required' to be members as part of the job.

I was IMeche for around 10 years after graduation, did the work to become chartered (actually very little work to be honest) and while employed my fees were always covered by the company. When I started to work for myself I paid it for a couple of years before asking myself what I was getting out of it. Haven't paid since, I was told at the time I left that to get back in I'd have to make up some of the fees and potentially prove CPD (mostly the money though).
Have never gone back and would still say I'm a chartered engineer if asked.

I'm an imeche member and one of the big benefits to my job is the library access. You can now get most journal articles online in an instant which is hugely helpful at times (and now saves my employer who pay the fees a ton of cash compared to ordering journals through the post like we used to). There are also heaps of textbooks online in the library (the really pricy several hundred a pop ones).
The pandemic has also made webinars accessible where previously going to (normally London) for a £300 seminar would never happen taking a couple of hours to watch lectures on line does sometimes happen.
The CEng carries weight if you ever get in legal messes (hopefully never) and is needed for some systems sign off like pressure regs. It is a chunk of cash but for me on balance it's worthwhile but the HQ could probably be more efficiently located in somewhere else cheaper. Birmingham, Manchester or Sheffield would make more sense for me but possibly not if you live in Kent. YMMV or obviously does for a lot of folks above.

and would still say I’m a chartered engineer if asked.

Except that really you’re not, you can only be registered through an affiliated institution so you cannot be Chartered.

Chartered does have certain obligations (CPD, professional code of conduct, etc.).

Anything that ends up going to court means you’re already up for misrepresentation and undercuts your ‘expertise‘...

Imagine asking your doctor/lawyer/accountant/dentist/hell even a GasSafe plumber if they were ‘registered’ and the answer was, well, I used to be...

Except that really you’re not, you can only be registered through an affiliated institution so you cannot be Chartered.

Anything that ends up going to court means you’re already up for misrepresentation and undercuts your ‘expertise‘…

Given the only difference is paying £300 a year, it's the hardly the most significant misrepresentation and anything that ends up in court is going to be examined in more detail than just saying 'your status has lapsed, guilty as charged, case closed'.

Oh , and personally, I believe that Engineer should have a protected status under law (like other professions).

Bit of a double edged sword that, once you have protected status the authorising body can just treble the fees and halve their service offering as they know you have to pay. As it is the IET doesn't offer anything of value right now.

I don't know what other engineering disciplines are like, but I would actually worry that chartership would HAMPER my daily work, as no-one (be it contractor, client, director 🙄) seems willing to actually give you the time or resource to do the job right anyway. If I felt my chartership was at stake or that I was obliged to do things by-the-book properly, then I'd get nowhere, or it would make my professional life even more stressful and difficult than it is now.

Case in point, I'm being asked to put out a design for a healthcare development based on a speculative design by another consultant. I'm being put in a position where the ONLY way to meet deadlines and give the contractor what they want is just to copy and paste the other guys design (which I know doesn't fit in the space nor actually, you know, work) and add some hefty caveats to the effect that 'I know this doesn't fit in the space and I suspect it doesn't work or even adhere to standard healthcare guidance'.

The idea of putting the time and money into getting chartered just to be put back into a position of shovelling junk out the door just seems a bit daft.

RICS here and still not chartered after more than 25 years. A waste of money for me personally and doesn't appear on the list of tax deductible professions. Would be useful if I started my own business though.

Well, it's that time of year again, and I've started getting the pestering e-mails about renewal, in turn starting my annual pondering about value for money. This phrase in the latest message isn't helping their cause this year.

I these troubled times, your membership is more relevant than ever.

Yeah, damn right it is, I'm sure many people are questioning the relevance when faced with a doubling of their energy costs, food inflation, mortgage interest rate hikes!

I's say its a bloody good job Mechanical Engineering is a reasonably well paid profession otherwise I suspect there would be quite the reduction in 2023 membership numbers.

HA HA. I'm in the same boat with the IET. I switched from the IMechE to the IET about 5 years ago.
It seemed less stuffy, pompous and old school than the IMechE at the time - but I still rarely get time to read the magazines, the website is a nightmare to naviate (updating your CPD stuff, for example) and there are never any events/talks near me.

I was gonna ditch it last year, and ended up renewing in the end as I was being so indecisive.
My work pay for the membership if I put a claim in, but then there is the pressure from them to apply for chartered status - which again - I am not sure what the benefit of that is.
Some engineers I know with it are very competent, some are complete idiots who have the gift of the gab & managed to talk their way through the process. None of them have given me a concrete reason why it's worth doing.

I was IMeche for around 10 years after graduation, did the work to become chartered (actually very little work to be honest) and while employed my fees were always covered by the company

I did the same, but only for ~3 years, until the company decided that employees should pay their own way.
Was within about a month of getting CEng through IMechE when i had to start paying (was fairly straightforward as i have the "right" degree.)

When asking my manager how being CEng would benefit me, "you'll be able to sign stuff off", "you'll be more responsible". The subject of being promoted or paid more was not addressed. Just a shuffling of feet and papers while he stared at his desk. So more responsibility, more exposure, no more money...

Ended up getting a promotion that gave me all the same "benefits" as CEng, and more money, without having to pay for the privilege. Haven't looked since. No one cares.

Didn't even bother resigning, just stopped paying, got a few snotty letters telling me i either had to resign or pay. Don't *think* it'll be a concern now, 25 years later.

I dropped RICS two years ago. Not missed it in any way. Except for saving a bit of money.

To me it felt snobby and had an old boys club feeling all the way through it, with no obvious benefits. Or if their was I missed them.

Anyway I found ChekaTrade more useful 😉

In these troubled times, your membership is more relevant than ever.

Yep I saw that and groaned. Employer still paying so I guess I'll stay a member another year, albeit through gritted teeth.

I these troubled times, your membership is more relevant than ever.

More relevant to the Institue than to its members.

I’ve just let my IMarEST membership lapse as the new company won’t pick up the fees.

I never bothered with IEEE / IET membership, it's pretty much irrelevant as far as I can see in Telecoms.

I'm a FIMechE and begrudge the money every year. Even though work pays... But it's a taxable benefit so it actually costs me at the end of the day.

Most posters are finding their Institution to not be worthwhile. I'll put a counter view; professional bodies have many benefits, if they are effective. Not all may be effective.

Declaration: I've been heavily involved in IStructE, starting from working in a regulated industry where there was business value in showing the regulator that we had competent people.

My hypothesis is that professions differ from trades in that the customer has to trust the professional. Most people will recognise bad joinery, or bad brickwork. Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, etc, you need to know you can trust them.
So engineers set up Institutions to give the public confidence. IStructE's Charter is clear that it exists for public benefit - the members only benefit indirectly. Some professional bodies, I think, have allowed themselves to become defenders of their members, to the detriment of the public.

@13thfloormonk says, in effect, that being Chartered would force them to work to a quality level that the business can't support. That's not a position anyone should be put in, but it happens. The value of good engineering is often not visible in the short term. Clients and Directors don't recognise that. Might the Grenfell Tower tragedy have been avoided if they did?

I learned a lot from being involved in IStructE, and what I learned definitely helped my career. Some was technical, some was just from meeting people from other parts of the industry and getting different perspective.

IStructE does a lot to develop and raise standards, but most of that is invisible to people who are not involved. It's more international than many, which may help.

What are the problems that prevent Engineering Institutions being seen as worth supporting?
- Their role in providing technical guidance has reduced. Pre-internet, publishing useful guidance was only feasible for a well funded organisation, now it can be found anywhere; but there's a risk that it may not be reliable. Formal standards (BS, EN, IEC etc) now have more detail than they used to - but many of them are drafted with support from Institutions.
- Employers are more demanding of their engineers, so they don't have time to get involved in Institutions. Is that true? It used to be necessary to travel to technical meetings, now many are online.

But if not through Institutions, how can the value that good engineering adds be made visible? Will it take more tragedies like Grenfell Tower? Will individual engineers be prosecuted because they bowed to pressure to cut corners?