Engineering Degrees

Seems to plenty of jobs in Civil Engineering, my firm always seems to be recruting graduates. No idea what they're on but I don;t think it's a bad gig. I did Btec civils then HND, didn;t finsih the degree as I was mid 30's and just about to have my second child and I just couldn't be bothered with it.

It can be a good interesting career, although both my wife (who is a chartered civil engineer) and I have both said to our kids to do something else, that pays better! My son wants to go into automotive engineering.

There's good demand for engineers across all disciplines. Starting salaries for graduates are ok. Automotive might be slightly more limited geographically - all the people I know in that field are linked to JLR in Coventry/Warwickshire, either directly or part of the supply chain. Civils will probably open up more options around the country. Worth thinking about structural and mechanical as well, or find a general course (Engineering Science?) so that he doesn't need to specialise too soon if there's no particular field that really appeals. Atkins were doing an apprenticeship program where they'd pay you through BEng or even MEng and therefore avoid the massive debts that msot students end up with.

Do the one he enjoys rather than the one with the best career prospects. I suspect either will be fine moneywise so better to have an interest in the field. Its also pretty easy to move around, still good friends with several guys from my course and we all have pretty different jobs and career paths.

edit, agree with mowgli above, try not to specialise too much early on. Plenty of time for that later once you know a bit more

My son did an Msc in Automotive Eng at Loughborough. Finished last year and has been working in his first job for about a year. He had a year out in industry which, I think, was really good to get used to working in engineering, so I would recommend wherever your son goes he does a course that includes it (make a Bsc 4years, and Msc 5 years).

Some of the large companies do a graduate scheme for new entries, but whether that will still be a thing in 3-5 years time who knows.

Also, after 5 years doing Automotive, he's not working in the car industry!

I did mech eng 25 years ago. With the benefit of hindsight I would definitely be choosing civil. Buildings will always be completed where they are needed. That can give you a job locally or you can go to an interesting building / project anywhere in the world. Mechanical things can be made anywhere (cheap) in the world.

I'm pretty out of touch now but I'd say you'd be on better money earlier in your career in the civil world.

Can't speak directly of civils and automotive but we (oil/gas/energy/chemicals/renewables/CCS/H2/NH3) can't recruit quickly enough into any department at the moment, and obviously we have a big civils department dealing with the groundworks.

Cyclical though, 4 years time then who knows. I guess it depends what sort of projects he fancies. Big ones like crossrail, HS2, electrification of the mainlines employ hundreds/thousands of office based engineers for years at a time. But obviously only come around every so often (but those companies will also be working worldwide). Or working for a smaller contractor where the work might be more steady but with less "I built that" bragging rights.

I worked for a very well known multi-disciplinary consultancy for a few years, Civil & Structural wages were much less than the equivalent MEP wage (my other half is still a structural engineer for same consultancy)

There is also a glass ceiling at some companies where you cannot progress until you are a chartered engineer.

Being completely honest for the hours/workload the money in consultancy isn't great, this is one of the main reasons why we lost lots of good engineers to tech companies like Meta, AWS and Google (including myself...).

I'd say an Automotive degree would be more interesting, make sure he picks a course with a placement year - this will stand him in good stead and he may be able to walk into that companies grad scheme when he graduates.

I did electrical engineering. Going to be a lot of renewables and networks work for a bit yet.

I'm a mechanical engineer - 46 now so kinda half way ish through a career.
I'd suggest he should do the one he finds most interesting as I think that the range of prospective outcomes (salary etc) is greater across the performance range (i.e. middling to high flyer) than it is between the industries - and he's more likely to do well at something he enjoys.

Re prospects, a lot of people from my degree (Mech Eng at Loughborough) aren't in engineering anymore - either straight from uni or changed later - engineering is effectively applied, logical problem solving which means that engineers can enter many other professions and in some cases are pretty sought after (banking and mgt consultancy for example). I don't know if that is also true for Civil engineering but I would imagine the same applies.

We will always need stuff building. I wouldn't bank on much of an automotive sector being in the UK in the coming years.

BMW have just announced they are moving the electric mini production to China.

Ohh, and elaborating on what beer said, most engineering careers look something like this:

1) Learn 50% of everything there is to know at uni, be convinced this is everything and it is important.

1.5) Get pissed off that as you're an engineer, everyone expects you to be able to fix the washing machine.

2) Use about 5% of this in actual work, question what the point was when all you're doing is lists and documents as a graduate in a consultancy.

3) Learn about 10% more of job specific stuff, this will be all you ever actually need for your further career.

4) As soon as your competent, join management (either project or people), do a PM or MBA qualification and never use any of your previous knowledge again.

I spent 30+ years in the engineering sector, the last 20 years in the defence sector with my final spell in corporate working in education and skills with oversight over apprentices and graduates. I also did a lot of cross sector work helping advise government on skills shortages and cross-sector strategies. Graduate starting salaries with my employer were £30k and we get 100+ applications for every vacancies. Graduate recruitment typically starts at the start of the academic year (now). We also developed graduate apprenticeships in quite a few disciplines like project management where on-job experience is just as critical as qualifications. The UK is suffering a chronic technical skills shortage across most disciplines because of the post-war demographic (most 55+ approaching retirement) not helped by Brexit and projects like HS2s big demand. There’s also big demand in areas like software, cyber and systems engineering.

Mechanical engineering degrees are always good options as they can lead to a lot of different roles.
I did mine 15 years ago, nearly, and have worked in plastics manufacturing, polyurethane manufacturing, automotive (JLR) and now in aerospace as a senior engineer.

Careers prospects are entirely down to attitude of the person, skills and luck of being in a company who recognise both of those things and help you progress. That's of course if it is wanted.

Civil and automotive are 2 wildly different areas. I chose mechanical to ensure I wasn't fixing myself down too much. I also wish I did an apprenticeship instead of purely a academic route as I'd be a better engineer now.

There are degree apprenticeships out there worth considering.

My daughters both did Mech Eng at Uni. Elder one went on to do a PhD in ultrasonics and is now a Senior Technology Development Engineer for a startup in Amsterdam. Younger one did Mech Eng with Automotive, which didn't seem to involve much automotive, and is now a Captain in the REME. They will both have plenty of opportunities if and when they decide to move on from their current roles.

@thisisnotaspoon sums up why my Civil Engineering career lasted about 15 years after graduation before moving on to something else.

Process / chemical engineering for me. Actually found it interesting even though I hated chemistry (there’s little chemistry in it tbh) and in my industry, process are basically lumped with all the hard questions that can’t be fixed by twin-core and earth, concrete or a big hammer. This keeps it interesting. It’s also the best paying of all engineering disciplines and has been for the 25 years I’ve been doing it. Don’t deal a great deal of engineering now days as am a Director but the company I work for does so keeps me involved with the technical (just!)

I graduated in Civil engineering with an MEng in 2002.

I was always told that the degree was valued by other industries such as accounting and the city.

Civil engineering is vast and varied. I worked originally for a big consultant. There is the potential to go anywhere with them, but it can be very boring and you are a small wheel in a massive machine. A very small firm is possibly more interesting and varied. I jumped ship after a few years to an infasture client operating canals. Far more fun and interesting than the consultant. Been here 17 years now.

Go for a degree in a place you like but check you can get chartered from there. Then decide the career course once you almost finished

Medical devices and biotech are currently strong industries in (my bit of) the UK. Pay attention to the risk management modules.

If I was advising someone interested in engineering today, I would say that getting on one of the degree apprenticeship programmes with a big, reputable employer would be preferable to going to university. You get paid whilst learning, not incur £30k+ debt and career/pay progression is pretty similar. Many employers find that apprentice retention rates are better vs graduates and so invest more in their training and development. An engineering degree of any discipline is a great foundation is things like structured thinking, analysis, creativity and problem solving and can open doors to many opportunities. Don’t get too hung up on career paths at too early a stage because the world of work and business is full of changes both good and bad, plus life gets in the way forcing decisions…

I've got a degree in civil engineering. I started gaining experience in renewables but the hours were longer than I wanted to work and you need to be away from home more than I was ever willing to be.....if only I worked that out when selecting what to study! So I had to move into a side branch of civil engineering - Forestry engineering - to get the lifestyle I wanted, predictable hours <45 per week and home nearly every night. Which means I never achieved my original objective of having a job building exciting things. It's just quarrying, waterbound roads, modest bridges over and over again. But I suppose the degree got me the lifestyle I wanted so shouldn't grumble.

Summary - be wary much of the construction industry is long hours away from home.

Re: comment from raleighimpact above, I got my MEng in 2003 and banks and management consulting were offering higher salaries than engineering. I assume that's still the case.

Seems being an engineering grad trying to join a bank is more likely to succeed than an accountant trying to go engineering.

Or banking for that matter, given how coding/modelling etc are going!

Watching with interest, my boy is dead keen on engineering (be a few years yet tho)

Of those two civil's the more reliable career, but that shouldn't outweigh following his heart I think personally, motor is a trickier career path but still a good one.

FWIW you might also want to look into articulation/acceptance options, not all universities are equally accepting of college entrants, and some courses will match up better or worse with btec. Like, it's sometimes possible to have it count as a year of study, but equally, it might just not be directly equivalent enough. And some universities are kind of dicks about college entrants tbf.

A mates daughter has just started the second year of a civil engineering degree at Sheffield, and is loving it.

She was fortunate to get a bursary from one of the big companies in the first year, which has also guaranteed her summer jobs (she spent last summer on HS2), her placement year and a job when she graduates, so clearly opportunities are out there

A mate of my lad's is doing automotive at Nottingham Trent, also just started his second year. Seems harder to get into and fewer jobs at the end of it, seems that a genuine intetest and/or practical experience is a big advantage

Would echo above that there is no need to specifically do automotive. I did mech eng MEng and ended up as a controls engineer in automotive (2015 grad). I am surprised no one has suggested more of an electrical / mechatronics slant. Once we move to BEVs, software will be the main way to differentiate from other brands/models and is a definite growth area, plus for me the complex system interactions are super interesting. Automotive can be quite subject to world economic trends though in terms of job security.

Edit - also +1 for considering a year in industry. Relying on summer placements for experience is much harder (I found)

BMW have just announced they are moving the electric mini production to China.

You don't need an engineering degree to work on a production line...

I agree with RSL1 - I’m a controls engineer, but from a HVAC point of view - I fell into the industry after doing an engineering course at Sheffield Hallam (BSc not BEng)

I’d done modules on hydraulics and electrical engineering but had no idea about control logic or building services.

I basically learnt everything on the job, there are several companies out there you can work for, both big and small and currently
a massive skills shortage in the industry (I think the average engineer age is 45)

With energy conservation and smart buildings becoming more and more important the demand is only going to get greater.

If you’re good (and even if you’re not unfortunately) once you have a few years experience you can command a wage and as it’s a pretty niche market you will never be out of a job.

A building services degree would stand your lad in good stead, and trying to get work experience with a controls or BMS (building management system) company would set him on the right path.

I completed my mechanical engineering degree 20 years ago and now can't get out of the industry fast enough. It just isn't for me any more & as far as I'm aware I'm the only person from my course still doing engineering.

Most firms I've worked for have assumed studying engineering is a stepping stone to becoming a project manager, most project managers aren't former engineers.

I'm a mech eng grad from 25 years ago who never became an engineer. Yet I still think it was the right choice for me. From that perspective I'm inclined to chuck in a few observations even if only of tangential relevance to the OP.

The British University system is less vocational than most. So there are a lot of really good employers who are just looking for quality graduates generally. Pure sciences, arts, engineering etc are all sources for them. In many cases engineering stands out because it in particular begins to shape a way of thinking and builds a problem solving mindset. As well as just being a good proving ground for some level of intelligence and hard work. I like this about that system, that it gives a bit more space for <18 YOs not to make a decision on career direction. To be fair though, it probably rings less true the larger the proportion of the population goes through university.

An anecdote that I think sums this up - in the late 90s, at least 2 of the "big 5" (I think it was 5?) accounting firms wouldn't even interview grads of accounting and finance degrees.

When I graduated, anecdotally the most common direction for mech eng graduates was into banking and finance. Rang fairly true for my close classmates anyway.

A few years later I was working in a bank in an analytical job in a department that was a popular direction people wanted to go in. Quite a tough environment but great learning and great on the CV. On a straw poll of my colleagues at that time, engineering was overwhelmingly the most common degree subject area. Outside of that it was a mishmash of all sorts. This was true for british/Europeans but pointedly not Americans. Later in my career (largely financial, not banking) I've continued to bump into engineering grads pretty constantly.

I chose the degree because I did genuinely think I'd be most likely to go into engineering. And a mate who did said something recently that I thought was interesting: "Of everyone I studied with you're the one who'd have most enjoyed an engineering career".

So I guess what I'm saying is:
1. It's a great basis whatever you end up doing. 2. You can make the choice based largely on what you enjoy.

However, coming from a btec, I wonder whether a uni degree will appeal - there are downsides to consider I think. Maybe it's a really good broadening of his horizons, or maybe it'll either not be focused enough for him or repeat too much? How it stacks up from that direction is a different question.

The UK is suffering a chronic technical skills shortage across most disciplines because of the post-war demographic (most 55+ approaching retirement) not helped by Brexit and projects like HS2s big demand. There’s also big demand in areas like software, cyber and systems engineering.

Yeah, very much this.

My place can't fill the positions with enough good people, right now.

Engineering has suffered a lot. Many reasons why. But there is a big shortage of talent in the 25-40 age range. I think more grads are coming through now but there will always be jobs for people who can do applied problem solving. You don't have to stay in the same industry or field forever, as many have noted.

You don’t need an engineering degree to work on a production line…

This +1

See my washing machine comment.

Civil engineer here too, but specialised in buildings and timber structures.  I kind of know what people up there are saying about progressing into management at the larger companies, to avoid this I moved to smaller places to keep myself actually designing, and ultimately to starting up my own small practice.  You don't have to stick to the corporate ladder and there are all sorts of small interesting specialists across engineering if you go looking.

My old company took on a HND guy as a technician (drawing/modelling) and sponsored him through a BEng and onto his MEng part time, may be a good route if he wants to start earning.

Civil gives you a massively broad education and opportunities across the specialisms and world, so am happy with my choice.

Personally I'd advocate sticking as general as possible for as long as possible.

I started an MEng course wanting to be a Civil Engineer. The structure of all the MEng courses at the Uni I attended was two years of general engineering which all the students did, followed by two years of a specific discipline. At the end of the four years I had a degree in Electronic Systems Engineering and on graduation went into software!

Do whichever interests him the most although as others have said an engineering degree opens up other careers too.
I graduated many years ago with a civil engineering degree and now do structural engineering, I used to joke that I could stand in the middle of any town and shout that I was looking for a job and at least get an interview. I don't think thats changed much over the years except in the middle of recessions. The pay is ok for a professional job but not exceptional. The work is varied, sometimes very frustrating sometimes really satisfying.
The comment above that much of the construction industry is long hours away from home may be more true for contracting but consulting can be 9-5 wherever you want if thats your preference. Also the progression doesn't have to be to management if you pick your jobs carefully, I'm more than 25 years in and still do 90% technical work.
Also as mentioned look at degree apprenticeships if working appeals, not just in the big firms. In fact small firms may be more likely to take someone on early, with less than 15 employees we have 2 on HND apprenticeships and one just finished a day release MEng.

I work for a Civil Engineering Consultancy. My top tips would be:

Look for companies offering Degree Apprenticeships now before committing to a degree. My company is currently more interested in taking people on this way than taking on graduates. Our Degree Apprentices get their degree paid for, they get the work experience as well as the Uni time, they get paid throughout, they get a job at the end of it and if they decide they want to leave the company after graduating they can. Win win win! Interviews for these places each year are quite competitive though.

I'd ask your boy how good he is at Maths. I remember my first year of Uni being on a par with A-Level Maths, from year 2 onwards the level of difficulty just went up. We had a lot of people struggle with this on our course. I'd want to be confident he's got what it takes before going down this road.

Check which ever course your considering is accredited. For example, accredited by the JBM (ICE IStructE etc.) for Civil.

civil and mechanical engineering are wildly different and will therefore attract different people so i would recommed doing what he likes. however i know more mech engineers that have retrained as something else (as you cant ALL work on f1 cars) than civil engineers and i know way more civil engineers.

if hes more geography/outdoorsy, do a civils degree. if he wants a job in flood risk and surface water management then hit me up! happy to do day release for someone cheap training.

if he likes computers n cars`s then do mech eng.

My career post university goes something like

Mechanical Designer/CAD as a junior, all aorta of various bits and pieces
Mechanical Designer, Automotive
Reliability Engineer, Automotive (with a bit of training delivery on the side)
Reliability Engineer, Aviation
Technical Trainer, Aviation

So I've done it myself, aswell as being involved in it now working with graduates, apprentices etc.

Firstly I'd say dont go too specialised too soon. I did Mechanical Engineering & Design, peers at Uni did Automotive Engineer Mech-eng, and fundamentally we all did the same stuff with the same tutors and resources but when my terms project was 'design something' there proeject was 'design something that fits on a car'.

I now look at the opportunities available to youngsters and I am very jealous. I managed through University but like a lot of excellent engineers didnt excel and gained far, far more from the year in industry I did (including a job!).

At my work we have apprentives joining who by 21 will be earning what I earnt at 30, but they will be experienced, well qualified, respected and will have been paid (not a lot, but enough) for 4 years, as opposed to having tens of thousands of debt.

I would investigate a whole range of technical, vocational roles, qualifications and apprenticeships across various industries to find something interesting.

Theres all sorts out there under the realm of 'engineering' too. Manufacturing, logistics, utilities companies, transport, etc all require engineers of many types.

I ended up in Aviation and I am very happy - my experince now is also that Aviation, being a 'high value' industry pays better than many others, even though the job role might be the same.

Same with O&G - theres money in that industry, so the jobs historically pay well.

Graduated in 2008 with a motorsport engineering degree, never worked in Motorsport full time!
I've worked all over the product lifecycle and now sit at the technical support end, for me its made me a more rounded engineer and appreciate the full cradle to grave and how everything is linked.
The motorosport was primarily mechanical with a small amount of electrical. Nowdays 90% of my week is filled with electrical/software issues!!

Personally I'd be looking for
-University with good links to industry (summer placements, year in industry, graduate careers)
-Formula student (there is a clear difference in the capability of young engineers who have actively participated in this)
-Mix of electrical & mechanical
-Lots of practical experience (its amazing how many engineers can't use their hands)

Mech Eng - B>Eng, M.Eng Phd.
Then finance in the early 90s, who recognised the value of the engineering training and mindset.
Most of my peers no longer go anywhere near anything technical.
I've drifted around the FS market and earning big bucks in consultancy for a long while now.
It was teh right degree for me to do 35 years ago. I wouldnt get too hung up about which flavour of Eng is the more relevant / lucrative.

I did Mechanical Engineering & Design

Me too, graduated 96.

Except my career went the other way. Started in Aero and got out as soon as possible. Looks good on the CV but a toxic environment to work in, and relatively badly paid.

Now a senior engineer in automotive. No direct reports, but half of RnD needs to come through me and the team i work in to do anything.

TBH, the way automotive is going, you'd be better off with either a automotive design degree (styling stuff) or a software/IT degree. Hardware engineers are easy to get as everything is being farmed out and engineered elsewhere.
Software, HMI/UX and suchlike is where the money is.

Whatever he decides, if he goes into engineering on graduation, go somewhere that has a proper graduate training scheme which leads to becomgin "professionally qualified" IE: CEng. I didnt manage to (with a 2:2) and have been in the civil engineering industry for over 20 years now, and am astill technically a "graduate" engineer. I've hit a glass ceiling in terms of career progression as I don;t have teh right letters after my name.

It sounds like I work for the same organisation as Raleighimpact above, and after 8 years I'm still no closer to being able to becoming prof qualified after 8 years there... Look into the companies training scheme if you can, see if it has a high churn of people becoming qualified. No single role gives you the breadth of experience to become qualified and there seems to be no system to gain the appropriate breadth of evidenced experience to meet the professional requirement. In my experience big construction contractors were good at this, shunting new engineers through a range of sites/roles to gain experience and thus qualifications.

Quite fancied civil engineering at school, then decided to serve my apprenticeship, as A levels weren't for me Served a 4 year instrument mechanic apprenticeship gaining an HNC, then sponsored to do a mech eng degree and now a chartered mechanical engineer, covering mechanical, process and electrical systems. Really enjoyed my apprenticeship, excellent mix of fault finding, carrying out maintenance, high pressure shutdowns, design and inspection. Great for gaining practical engineering experience, working with people and getting paid. If I was advising your lad, I would definitely recommend applying for an industrial based degree course - so gaining life skills, practical / applied engineering experience, getting a degree paid for, whilst being paid. Some of the engineering graduates we get to "mentor" could really do with gaining more life experience and learning how to communicate with people effectively, rather than thinking they're above rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in on plant. My advice would be for your son to speak to different discipline engineers, get some work experience and pursue what he enjoys and is interested in. Good luck to him, let us know how he gets on!

How's his maths?

I did a btec rather than Alevels. Dropped out of a msc in Automotive Engineering as practically I was streets ahead but maths wide I struggled like hell.

However that could be the symptom of both academic schemes and dyslexia

As said above, if automotive then be prepared to live around the west mids / cov area in the uk for most opportunities. There are bits elsewhere, but that’s where the majority is.

There are a lot of jobs around at the moment, but things are cyclical in the automotive sector.  There are lots of opportunities abroad at the moment too, if that’s what he wants.

in terms of course, auto eng is good, but also consider something like systems engineering as this will give a more rounded education with more exposure to software and electronics, which is a massive part of the industry now.

Doing a year in industry is worth more than an MEng is over a BEng, so definitely do this. Treat it as a year long job interview and the chances are you’ll have a job waiting for you after uni.  Also any extra curricular activities you have on your CV will help stand out from all the other identical CVs when it is time to get a placement year - working on your own car, job in local garage, messing about with arduino etc.

Currently decent companies should be offering low 30k+ straight out of uni. In my experience, career opportunities and progression are limited mainly by your desire to get involved, but maybe I’ve been lucky where I have worked. Oh, and a word to the wise - have a bit of humility and be prepared to say you don’t know or understand something, instead of pretending you know it all. A good engineer should be looking to learn all the time, thinking that you know it all is not compatible with this

Sometimes I regret not doing civil as it would give more flexibility in terms of where to live, but then buildings and structures don’t actually float my boat, and messing about in cool cars can be fun

I teach Engineering HNC/D. Mainly to students already employed.

When asked about higher education i always say find a company that will pay you to do it.
So look for high apprenticship if just finishing his level 3 or Degree apprenticship, these are more popular now as companies have to pay into aprrenticship levy

As mentioned earlier the course is not to teach you job specific engineering skills but more resourcefullness in problem solving within an engineering disapline, some cant see past that. Plus we are preparing you for the job/ role you will progress to not the current one you have.

For context by the time most of our students have finished the HND they are looking at team leader/ lower managment roles and high 30k salary, but will have been at work +4 yrs.

Personally i'd avoid automotive and look more into mechanical/ automation/ electrical courese that are more transferable. I dont know much about civil eng unfortunatley.

Think it's best to look at what he wants as an outcome and work backwards from that, working out what he really wants to do, where he wants to do it and how easy/hard it would be to get to where he wants.

The above might move him to save a little money and time, some companies offer support through uni, with On The Job placements during leave periods, same with companies taking in graduates or apprentices and then having access to training courses, university placements, etc, which can save a hell of a lot of money in the long term!

My side is mechanical engineering, in the MoD we tend to focus on the engineering qualification and level, so don't just think automotive engineering will mean Coventry and the midlands for life, we have several people with automotive degrees, to us it means they have the building blocks to move into other engineering posts, that could be on land based automotive systems, or moving into other domains, or engineering areas, such as HFI/Safety/Systems Engineering/etc.

To those saying that they don’t have the right qualifications to become chartered… think again and contact your institution. As long as you have a degrees in your chosen discipline) Masters preferred, but not necessary) there is a route. All the institutes have realised that not everybody goes down the BEng, MENg, accredited grad training scheme route anymore… there’s a route for you. It might involve additional work, i.e. report demonstrating your experience on top of the normal application/interview, but it’s definitely doable. You don’t need your workplace to be involved at all and their training/grad scheme is irrelevant, do it off your own back. Civil Engineering crops up here a lot so look here:
https://www.ice.org.uk/membership/membership-grades/member-ieng-or-ceng-mice/

As to whether the institutes are relevant /worthwhile that’s a another question altogether. But if it’s the last barrier to your progression at your workplace I’d say it’s probably worth the £350/yr, even if your co. is not paying for it.

Slightly leftfield option but geotechnical engineering might be worth a look. Elements of civil and structural with a good dose of actually awesome geology. Also in very high demand (we can't find enough geotech engineers).

The engineering degree at Southampton has the same first 2 years for everyone, and you specialize in the 3rd / 4th year. But I think Civils is a separate course.

my son is looking at Bath Uni for automotive as well, but entrance is A A A#!

If you want a high return on your education investment and a high chance of employability afterwards, I’d be looking at doing a Systems Engineering degree. Everything these days is looking toward maximising the product/service throughout its lifecycle and to do that you need to understand it and the use of it at various stages. That complex understanding is being managed by a more complex approach to systems engineering using MBSE modelling and System of Systems modelling. The beauty of SE is that it’s transferable to any industry in which complexity is a problem and that skills in these areas are few. It’s also got the right mix of practical knowledge and coding that you can work in manufacturing or as a cloud engineer should you do wish.

With regards to the maths, get him a copy of this, it's the 1st year maths textbook for every university engineering student.

It's dead easy to follow, the first page is pretty much 2+2, then 2+2+2, then 3x2 untill you're solving Laplace transforms and multiple order differential equations.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141937002174?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=815C3ZuwTru&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=siifEu7yTsm&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Not me but then my Loughborough Engineering Maths lecturer had written his own book so we obviously used that. One of the most memorable lecturers about. RIP Dr Mustoe, I pity anyone that turns up late wherever you happen to be now

I knew that was going to be KA Stroud before I even clicked the link. Weirdly our university strongly advised us not to use Stroud so didn’t bother with it until 3rd year and then F.me… a total revelation. It’s a great book. Though mine currently propping up a second monitor in my home office…

It’s dead easy to follow, the first page is pretty much 2+2, then 2+2+2, then 3×2 untill you’re solving Laplace transforms and multiple order differential equations.

Building Services engineer here, if we ever have to touch Uni level maths, it means we've done something wrong! 😂

For what it's worth I'd warn him off building services, reasonable job security, decent people and worthwhile salary (pays for multiple bikes at least) but horrible hours right now and decent project management seems to be sadly lacking.

As the proud holder of a BEng/2:2 it's probably my natural resting place but I'd love to be able to go a few weeks without some mad deadline panic or pointlessly unachievable list of deliverables 🙄

+lots for the KA Stroud maths books. About the only book from uni that I ever refer to.

Another Building Services engineer here - I'd echo what 13thfloormonk said!
On the bright side though there are plenty of jobs at the moment - we're really struggling with recruitment, especially on the electrical side.

Stroud - legendary book! Got me through uni maths, after struggling with it during NC and HNC in instrumentation, that and getting Wednesday afternoon maths tutoring by a maths PhD student! ....Also agree with comment re chartership and contacting your institution for advice. Managed to get a senior engineering manager to "sponsor" me rather than a work graduate development scheme, which worked well. Plus because my degree had a lot of geology thrown in (out of choice) interest) and not fully mechanical, got individual accreditation - so that's worth a go ..

Ask yourself why you want to ho to university and what you want out of it.

I used to look after the recruitment of engineering graduates for our organisation - circa a dozen a year.

I used to get really annoyed with candidates whose knowledge was impeccable (often better than mine is these days) but couldn’t think.  As soon as you took them off the syllabus or outside the course bounds they went tilt.

Certain universities who prided themselves on the standard of their teaching produced the worst offenders.  Over taught.

University should not be just another level of school. You should have to learn to find things out, apply some critical thinking, make judgments - learn to learn, learn to solve problems where the answers are not yet known.

Knowledge? Who cares, there’s Google for that. Application of knowledge, wisdom and judgement? Now you’re talking.

Oh yes, and a few years rite of passage down the pub / out at gigs / meeting interesting people etc.