[Closed] Energy suppliers who don't insist on smart meters?

Bulb?

Previously I have just agreed to have one installed .....but made it impossible for them to book an appointment with me to get it fitted.

Sorry neither of us have bookable holidays we have shifts that we don't know more than 1 week in advance so if you want to visit my house I will require maximum 1 weeks notice and a confirmation call the day before as we also get called in to cover short notice.....all tripe

I've not got a smart meter yet and I've never been kicked off my tarrif

Just looking at Bulb now - they seem cheaper too! So result! :o)

I changed last month to OVO, partly as they support cycling, mostly as they were the cheapest. They asked if I want a smart meter, I said no, they havent bothered me since.

Pure Planet haven’t asked we get one.

Octopus don’t. PM me and I’ll give you a code that’ll save both of us £50

Bulb here too. They're very good so far, been with them for nearly two years.

Our meters are in the cellar with not a cat in hells chance of data signal, so no smart meters for us for the foreseeable.
Bulb are ok with that.

I'll pm you a referral for 50 quid - use it or not up to you.

Edit - oh, I can't pm you. Pm me if you want it.

Bugger - just seen your message cp! Switched to Bulb 30 mins ago.

And the PM thing - there were some spam message going round a month or so ago so I block messages! :-/

As I say on all these threads:

Don't rely on the commercial (or TV advertised) comparison sites.

Look at CAB or Which to show you more of the market - the "more" being cheaper suppliers like Bulb who don't pay referral fees

As far as I'm aware there's no legal obligation, so none of them can insist out right. However, certain tariffs might only be offered to you if you have or agree to have a smart meter.
I'm with Utility Point at the mo. and been with many others, never been required to have a smart meter to get cheapest deal. Only tariff I've looked at that requires a smart meter is Octopus Go Electric tariff, but it's a special tariff for someone who owns an EV (electric car).

Problem is government pressure for the waste of money ridiculous roll out for a functionally useless system and the incentives they give to the companies. That and the fact the older smart meters are an advantage to them in being a lock-in.

Current company have stopped claiming my old (not that old) meter is downright dangerous and smart meter is the answer and finally said I just need the meter replacing as it might not be accurate and not mentioning smart meter (finally). Fair enough in a way, but then again it's really not that old (digital meter and I still see plenty of old dial types working with no issue).

My main problem is don't want smart meter for reasons of increasing costs to pay for them and open door to personalised peak charging, plus replacing the meter full stop means having to wait in and I'm expected to pay a non-free number to book the appointment. Also I don't see why I can't just submit readings still or not even bother and let the lazy bastards actually come round and read it for once in a while. At least I'm keeping someone in a job.

Octopus user here
Very happy with the switch over and service
Email reminder to submit reading monthy, then auto generated bill within an hour. I pay £45 pcm for combined gas and leccy
No dramas or penalties if you don't submit . Keeps both sides up to date with usage and costs, and therefore very easy to see if you are under or over paying

I recommend joining MSE Energy Club. I also use CAB as an alternative comparison.
I don't use the meerkats or their likes.

Only supplier I've been with that I wouldn't recommend is Eversmart Energy.

I think it's worth knowing your actual yearly usage for a more accurate quote and to set your monthly payments

Utility Point (recommended pm me for a ref code) who I'm currently with have made no mention at all of smart meters.

I pay £45 pcm for combined gas and leccy

£45 a month!!! Have you tapped into your neighbours gas and leccy! 🙂

Don't use meerkats use money supermarket energy club. It's better and was recommended by a few on here.

Good to see the usual bolloks being spouted 😂

I'm currently with Tonik Energy cheapest I could find without any fixed term tariffs. They will take any meter point and haven't pushed a smart meter on us. They push green energy too, using 100% Renewable for electricity and 10% green gas with the rest carbon offset.

The industry will be more competitive when faster switching comes into play.

not even bother and let the lazy bastards actually come round and read it for once in a while.

I highly recommend not doing that.

Your rear is much more covered if you submit readings, in the very likely event that the supplier fails to properly organise a drinking activity in a brewery, and then hugely overcharges you using some fantasy figures.

when faster switching comes into play.

how much faster are you expecting it to get?

how much faster are you expecting it to get?

Eight days is the claim.

Coop energy here, no smart meter.

They email me asking for a reading 2 weeks before each quarterly bill.

Don’t use meerkats use money supermarket energy club. It’s better and was recommended by a few on here.

I think he means Money Saving Expert (MSE) Energy Club

Slight hijack. I've been looking at switching but all the cheapest quotes are from companies I've never heard of before. I know you get electric and gas from the same place so it makes no difference but I don't want to sign up to a mickey mouse company based abroad who sells all my personal data and has no customer service.

I avoid the cheapest car insurance quotes too.

So, help me save some money, which is the best company to use outside the big six?

Thanks

Ps I don't have a smart meter either but I know I have to get one eventually.

I'm with Bulb.

Switched form Scottish Power, who are a shower of useless muppets. Chased me for 75 quid to close my account then sent me a cheque for £105 because I was in credit!

Bulb are cheaper, they have a nicer website, you pay up front, they have a single tariff and its easy to alter you payment amount.

Their electrons and methane molecules seem as good as anyone else, they just cost about 10% less.

Damascus, I'd say look on MSE forum, pretty much every supplier has a thread on the Energy sub forum titled "add your feedback on energy supplier X". You can scroll thru and read the general chat about the supplier you're considering. The other side of that is it's often the whingers who post not the people who are happy, so maybe try to find the balanced reviews within. maybe look at other reviews as well ie Trustpilot. Perhaps as a generalisation, if there's masses of pages of feedback it probably means lots of customers with issues. However for me, it totally depends on how good the price is as to whether I might consider going back to a supplier I don't recommend or a supplier I'm wary of. If the price is right I'm prepared to put up with some hassle.

From first hand exp. I wouldn't recommend Eversmart (unless they are quoting really cheap), from chat on MSE forum I'm a bit wary of Outfox The Market.

And on a related topic. We are currently with SSE - who a useless. But we are PV cells on the roof which we claim through SSE. If I switch suppliers do I need to change from SSE for the payments, or do I just stay with SSE for the PV and someone else for our leccy and gas?

Thanks for clearing that up BA, that's the one I meant. The reviews of each provider are very helpful.

Peoples Energy, they are offering a smart meter but not - as far as I'm aware - insisting upon it.

@TINAS - you’ll like this bit of bollocks. I changed suppliers again last year and when told about about smart meters, I said “we have had this before the gas and electricity meters are too far apart” (gas on far side garage wall, elec on other side of house). The lady on the phone said “that won’t be a problem with the new generation of meters”.
“Excellent” I said and we arranged an appointment to fit.

The guy came round to fit the smart meter, took one look in the electricity box (which is outside) and said “ the smart meter won’t fit in there with the RCD box”. Not heard from them since, still can’t get a smart meter fitted!

You don't have to take a smart meter. SSE called to offer me a smart meter 3 days after I'd sorted a switch to Pure Planet. I politely declined.

I do love the fact that Smart meters are touted and an energy saving tool. No they're really not, they're there to make it easier for the energy company to get their readings, thats it as far as I can tell.

As said above, Octopus.

No insistence of smart meters and if anyone wants a referral code pm me. £50 each credit to our accounts.

No they’re really not, they’re there to make it easier for the energy company to get their readings, thats it as far as I can tell.

...and if you believe the tin-foil-hat brigade - in 'the future' they will be used to force variable pricing on customers when demand is highest. And control supply.

I do love the fact that Smart meters are touted and an energy saving tool. No they’re really not, they’re there to make it easier for the energy company to get their readings, thats it as far as I can tell.

That's a bit narrow minded, Octopus Go tariff and Octopus Agile tariff are completely reliant on smart meter and potentially can save the user hundreds. Certainly I worked out Go tariff would save me around £400pa over a traditional tariff / method. Agile tariff is currently a bit of an unknown, but in theory when it's say sunny / windy you could even be paid to use electricity.

My energy company Co-op we went with because they were cheap & now all our electricity comes from renewable resources.
Not sure how they can push only renewable energy to our house, but I trust them...

They did try to push a smart meter on me, I told them Saturday is the best day for me & after about 3 or 4 calls to arrange a visit during the week they suggested I call them when I know I'll be in during the week. I may have lost their number.

Me with Bulb (I think I have smart meter?) as the landlord used them for gas and electricity.

Was looking around but it was Bulb who kept chasing me up so signed up with them to see how it goes.

They told me to read the metre then to submit the reading via email then they gave me the bill to pay online or call them up.

OP. I'm with Bulb,daughter switched to them on my recommendation but forgot to use referal code, I got cross with her, she phoned a couple of days later to explain to the admin, they said 'no problem' and credited us both fifty quid , so it's worth a phone call...... my reference if you wanna try it is.

PS , No smart meters and they accept a photo of hard to read meters ???? plus supposedly renewable sourced power ?

Yorkshire energy for me. The company do not have any smart meters so will never ask you.
Although I would switch tomorrow if I could get my main meter fitted outside for free.

Why don’t people - ie you - want smart meters?

I know that it could usher in more dynamic pricing BUT we (as in the country) can end up turning on power stations for short periods of time just to cover 30 mins at peak (4-6pm) which is really expensive and generally highly carbon emitting. So if we can manage demand a bit better we will be less reliant on gas and coal stations - and dynamic pricing is one way to do that.

Beyond smart meters, I’ve seen a few various trials of technology that allows people to sell back to the grid when the dynamic market prices reach a certain level (ie peak demand) either from batteries or electric vehicles. They’re proof of concept trials at the moment so not widely or commercially available. I’d be interested in that - but then am I an outlier or are other people interested?

Why don’t people – ie you – want smart meters?

Paranoia and tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, mostly. Oh, and they give you cancer or cat AIDS or something. Because, y'know, radiation.

BTW,

<mod> As per the forum T&Cs, referral links are not permitted. Please stop making work for us. Love and kisses. </mod>

I had a smart meter fitted this morning. I deeply regret doing so now as I’m typing this from the high dependency unit of the local hospital. I’m also in quarantine. If only Cougar had posted about the bad cat aids yesterday things might have turned out differently.

That’s a bit narrow minded, Octopus Go tariff and Octopus Agile tariff are completely reliant on smart meter and potentially can save the user hundreds. Certainly I worked out Go tariff would save me around £400pa over a traditional tariff / method. Agile tariff is currently a bit of an unknown, but in theory when it’s say sunny / windy you could even be paid to use electricity

The smart meter bit isn't making it cheaper. It's just the tariffs are subsidised on the basis of having a smart meter, for now. Relying on smart meters for adaptive billing shouldn't make a difference. Okay you may not get the up front estimated bill and refund cycle, but overall you've paid the same.

These have to be paid for at some point. There's no actual saving to customers long term, only savings to the energy company in not having to employ people to read meters.

Doesn't make a difference to energy supply as the data goes to billing companies who have nothing to do with the energy network (and for all the fluff from green energy companies about using windmills and stuff, your energy probably doesn't come from anything fluffy and green, unless you actually live near a wind farm. These are billing companies, not energy companies).

Saving money bit is based on people looking at the meter display, trusting what it said (known to be inaccurate at times) and turning things off. Or you can just turn things off you're not using and maybe look at a regular meter to see the effect, or get an energy monitor you attach to the mains if you like.

And yes... cat aids is my main concern. They get radiation from the meters, develop cat aids and then bite me.

I don't have a smart metre, yet, I can't honestly remember the last time someone came to read the metres, I'm guessing about 4 years. So, who would I be putting out of a job?

They've come round to read mine every 6 months in last few years. They used to be mostly estimated. Probably because I don't bother myself (though I check what they've read) and ignore the hundreds of calls bugging me about smart meters (12 times in the last two days).

The smart meter bit isn’t making it cheaper

Have you even bothered understanding those two tariffs I mentioned. They don't work without a smart meter, you can't have them without a smart meter. One of them requires a meter reading every half hour, the other at least twice a day. One of them I know would save me £400pa that's the smart meter making it cheaper right there and no one is going to come round and read my meter at 00.30am and 04.30am every day.

Saving money bit is based on people looking at the meter display, trusting what it said (known to be inaccurate at times) and turning things off. Or you can just turn things off you’re not using and maybe look at a regular meter to see the effect, or get an energy monitor you attach to the mains if you like.

Or you can find a cheaper tariff to save money, some of these tariffs require smart meters to give the supplier very regular meter readings to save you money.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but being able to switch suppliers multiple times a day should in theory bring more competition and lower prices. OK, it does rely on accurate billing systems which utility companies don't have a good track record for and I guess collusion within the industry could mean there not being much of a difference between suppliers at different times of the day. Hoping my SMETS 1 meter gets put onto DCC soon to as otherwise it's even more pointless.

Doesn’t make a difference to energy supply as the data goes to billing companies who have nothing to do with the energy network (and for all the fluff from green energy companies about using windmills and stuff, your energy probably doesn’t come from anything fluffy and green, unless you actually live near a wind farm. These are billing companies, not energy companies).

Yeaaaa, but no.

The energy companies have to buy the energy they sell to you from producers. So a 'green' energy company will only buy from renewable or greener sources depending on the wording of their promises. Whereas edf/n power/British gas/manweb will be buying whatever's cheapest like coal, gas etc.

Arguing that isn't true because the electrons all get mixed up in the grid is like arguing you're living off the proceeds of international child pornography sales and dead baby Robin's because the bank no longer has a safe in the basement with your name on it and just stores all those numbers as electrons on a computer.

@TINAS - Isn't the power grid designed to work using large generating stations? Therefore wouldn't adding electricity from renewable sources away from these big inputs be like urinating in a river, it does add some but not enough make any difference?

I read this is why the Germans are suffering grid instability and the UK may face the same because the power network is not designed to work like this. I am not sure of the correct language to articulate what I mean, so for lack of better wording it causes 'voids' in power which them overloads transformers etc as they try to draw power from elsewhere in the network to fill these 'voids'

Smart meters DO save money in the long run. Energy companies have to buy your usage in advance from the producers, so naturally if they have a more accurate picture of what you use (due to smart meters) instead of relying on estimates, they can use that to buy only the energy you'll probably use - no more, no less.

Smart meters also save money by reducing the propensity to contact for people calling up complaining about their bills. Why do people complain about their bills? Because they NEVER give meter readings themselves, always rely on the readers who barely come round.

If you don't want a smart meter, that's fine. Just make sure you give actual meter readings to your supplier every single month, preferably the day before your latest statement is due. If you don't want a smart meter and don't want to give your supplier readings every month, you don't get to complain about inaccurate bills I'm afraid. Yes, SOMETIMES there are errors in billing, but the vast, VAST majority of issues with energy companies that aren't due to switching, are due to people relying on estimated readings.

Also to add, yeah smart meters save money, but it doesn't mean they will then pass the money back to you through cheaper bills.

@TINAS – Isn’t the power grid designed to work using large generating stations? Therefore wouldn’t adding electricity from renewable sources away from these big inputs be like urinating in a river, it does add some but not enough make any difference?

The grid was designed around large power stations, but tagging on lots of small generators still works fine, your neighbours solar panel energy probably only gets used by a few local houses, but still gets used and means they draw less from the main grid.

NB There are problems syncing frequency from lots of small suppliers, but fundamentally it all gets used in the end.

@TINAS – Isn’t the power grid designed to work using large generating stations? Therefore wouldn’t adding electricity from renewable sources away from these big inputs be like urinating in a river, it does add some but not enough make any difference?

Worth noting that there has been an awful lot of pissing in this particular river. Coal fired electricity generation has dropped from 30% in 2014, to 5.4% in 2018 (and wasn't a fluke, it's dropped steadily the 4 years in between).

To continue with the word of the day, this sort of thing pisses me off from an environmental standpoint. Sure there are some reasons why smart meters are bad, but most of the guff spouted is on an intellectual par with an LBC phone in. The planet is getting rapidly more and more effed and someone on another thread said they had an outside hot water tap for hoseing their bike off, this is why people need smart meters! They might not be pissing hot water up the outside wall of their house, but there's probably a lot of devices and filament lamps plugged in that have just been forgotten about.

Have you even bothered understanding those two tariffs I mentioned. They don’t work without a smart meter, you can’t have them without a smart meter. One of them requires a meter reading every half hour, the other at least twice a day. One of them I know would save me £400pa that’s the smart meter making it cheaper right there and no one is going to come round and read my meter at 00.30am and 04.30am every day.

The smart meter itself is just allowing for peak/off-peak charging. We had that with Economy 7 and don't require smart meters for it.

Variable ones like Octopus Agile are peak/off-peak in a more granular way plus some claim of savings based on the wholesale rate variability, but monthly / quarterly billing would average that out anyway. Also, energy companies often quote savings based on estimates of what a regular billing would take up front for energy you haven't used yet but ignores that it will adjust itself with actual use and you may get a refund. Though it is a rubbish way of billing anyway, but you don't need a smart meter to scrap upfront billing.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/02/an-energy-firm-claims-its-new-tariff-may-pay-you-to-use-electricity---but-beware-the-hype-

Just insist that you get a second generation meter (SMETS-2) and you’ll be fine. Got mine fitted in May and no issues whatsoever - 45minutes and the job was done. Data is helpful.

All of the major suppliers are exposed to colossal fines if they don’t achieve set thresholds for installs of smart-meters. Hence their insistence / conditions of requiring an install.

Ultimately they need fitting - it’s a big govt agenda item. If you’re reluctant to take one then you’re off their books so they’ll avoid a fine (for your account at least).