Energy saving / ins...
 

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[Closed] Energy saving / insulation - how far to go ?

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Sorry for long post but i know there are some knowledgable folks on here - stoner and edukator et all. ive had a look round diy sites and tbh most of them look to be full of tradesmen pumping their own stuff - bad i know i aint met stoner and edukator but i trust them more ! - although my dads a tradesman and hes equally as guilty of pushing what he knows.

1950s built twin skin brick with concrete floor. Storey and half with 2 original fit dormers

Spend last saturday morning upping my attic insulation to 300mm in all three attics - have decreased airflow into attic somewhat with this as it was like a force nine gale but have not entirely blocked off air flow

Im working through the rooms lifting the cheap knackered ( pealing) laminate and laying space blanket insulation , and oak flooring.

Under the concrete floor im being encouraged to lay polythene down with sand on to hold it down as the solum is quite damp and to prevent my insulation getting soaked any one got any comment on this ? Its a 4 foot tall very well vented ( read cold) cavity Followed by netting and 200mm of glass fibre to the underside of the concrete.

The walls - dont really want to cavity insulate due to exposed nature of the building and that i believe that the cavity is there for a reason. My dads being pretty pushy on the fact that the wool insulation breathes as oppose to the polystyrene balls - my view is that bridging the gap with anything gives moisture a path. Will borrow the infrared thermometer from work and see just how much im loosing through the walls and ask the neighbours if they have had cavity filled.

Anyone got these thermatex blinds ? Worth the extra ? Claims of 70% extra heat retention ?

Have already started fitting modern efficient radiators in the rooms ive decorated and we have a modern woodburner/ eco fan combo in the living room. That means the heating goes off when ever i have it going !

I have an open coal fireplace in the office/spare room which i want to retain for use- its a cast art deco thing but being open obviously its drafty - is there a modification i can add to make it close off or at least restrict it when not in use ? Like a flue damper, Its currently stuffed with news paper !

Anything else that doesnt cost the earth that would help - dont expect it to be a hermetically sealed box - it wasnt designed that way just dont want to be filling the oil tank every couple months - my last 2 houses were both (rented) solid 3 foot granite 2 bed cottages recently fully refurbed to modern building regs so cost peanuts for the size - circa 500l oil a year and a cube of wood- the top of my list atm is a new boiler system - current system was transplanted from the arc non condensing and heating a tank of water all the time to drive 2 sink taps ! Only good thing is it has a very expensive thermostatic controller which allows me to vary the temps in each room for each time of the day - hard work programming it but seems to be the dogs bollocks and lets me keep the house to a low minimum temp all the time ( lotta thermal mass to heat up if i let it cool down ) and bring it up when im in.


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 9:50 am
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Is the answer Squadron Leader Brian Trubshaw?


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 9:56 am
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No al everyone knows the answer to everything in the universe is 7 or I struggle with long sentences


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 9:58 am
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Hey, sounds like a great project.

Firstly by insulating the roof space at ceiling tie level you create a colder loft, not necessarily a problem - but you do need to ensure the loft is well ventilated - you mentioned that you cut down the airflow... A cold, poorly ventilated space is perfect for condensation build up and over a long time could result in decay of the timber. Panic not though, just don't completely seal the loft. Draughts are not always bad! What's the roof construction by the way? If you are in England and there's not any sarking then you may have sufficient natural draft anyway.

Depending on location and the condition of the render/harl you might be fine for cavity insulation. I think the benefits of (well installed) insulation are noticeable, and worthwhile (I have it in my 1950's house). If the brick's not porous then it's unlikely you'll get problems with bridging the cavity. Modern cavity wall insulation's pretty good kit anyway. A 1950's house may well have a cement based render too - this is pretty much waterproof unless it's cracked or has degraded. I wouldn't get too worried about the walls "breathing", unless it's sandstone/lime mortar, it'll not "breath", ever.

I haven't ever seen anyone fit polythene with sand on top in the solum, but the sand will absorb and hold any moisture in there - I wouldn't recommend this. Don't really see any benefit from this if your floor is suspended concrete and is well ventilated. I would just monitor the insulation.

Heating system wise, I reckon a nice woolly jumper is cheaper than heating. But I am Scottish...

Best of luck with the renovation!


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 6:00 pm
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Im afraid I have very little experience of your construction type.

You can get flue "pillows" to plug them when not in use
http://www.nigelsecostore.com/acatalog/Chimney_Pillow.html

Fitting a damper I imagine would require a lot of work and mess.

Making the most of any solar gain you can capture during the day may help at no cost
http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/EandE/Web_sites/01-02/RE_info/passive_solar.htm


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 6:20 pm
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[url= http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/ ]http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/[/url] should have some good impartial info.
With regard to the 78% heat loss saving from the thermatex, I'd like to see a few more details about the testing they did and looking for an overall R-value or U-value.
I had a test done on some shutters that returned a 55% heat loss saving taking a double glazed window down from 1,8W/m²K to 0,81W/m²K and a visible transmittance in the region of 0,05 (almost blacked out).
What you need to think about with the blinds is the possible summer problems. If you're going to pay attention to the windows, do it properly. Blinds are good for keeping the heat in, but not too good at keeping the heat out in the summer, for that you need external shading.
[url= http://www.action21.co.uk/existing_buildings.html#doors ]http://www.action21.co.uk/existing_buildings.html#doors[/url] is also worth a look.
That's just my very biased and personal point of view. 😉


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 7:03 pm
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Spend last saturday morning upping my attic insulation to 300mm in all three attics - have decreased airflow into attic somewhat with this as it was like a force nine gale but have not entirely blocked off air flow

Air is good. You have a cold roof situation and therefore need to maintain an airflow into the roof void.


 
Posted : 21/04/2012 10:15 pm
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Yes i have airflow just not the force 9 gale that was bellowing out of every entrance into the house - blowing attic doors open etc every alternate eave has glasswool up to it the next is completely clear.


 
Posted : 22/04/2012 6:38 am
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If your water tank is in the loft be careful not to block all rising heat from the room below or you'll have trouble in a severe winter. Some heat loss is actually a good thing.


 
Posted : 22/04/2012 6:48 am
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Nope didnt insulate under that either 😀 although i do need to go lag the pipes propperly as i noticed that they needed doing - same under the floor.


 
Posted : 22/04/2012 6:49 am
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The Chimney Pillows...apparently you can use the foil bladder from a wine box. You just need to make sure it has something that hangs obviously into the fireplace/grate as unlike the chimney pillow, it won't disintegrate as soon as someone lights the fire below.

Put into chimney, inflate via tube and then use a bulldog clip or similar to keep it inflated. A short section of plastic waste pipe alongside it will allow a small airflow to keep the chimney dry.


 
Posted : 22/04/2012 7:05 am
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well ...

after putting up some lighting at my front door yesterday my worrys about cavity wall are unfounded -drilled through the cavity and out the other side and found the walls are already pumped full and have been for some years as i spoke to the neighbours about when the render was done and that was about 12 years ago - walls were cavity filled before that.

fine by me if its been in there that long and zero damp - i was sold the house as not having it so thats a bonus.

will look into chimney pillows.


 
Posted : 23/04/2012 3:27 pm
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My limited understanding is you need to watch out for wind driven rain that can cause the "moisture bridge" you were talking about.

Secondly there is cavity wall insulation that actually works while damp - or doesn't get damp rather or whichever way it works (sorry no expert so you probably don't want to read this).

As you mentioned that your house is rendered, I assume that might reduce the risk of moisture bridge anyway. However, damp insulation is a better head conductor as well - so sucking heat out of your house. So your walls could already be ...shit, and you wouldn't necessarily know about it but then again you should see damp patches on the inside.

edit: gerammmer


 
Posted : 23/04/2012 4:04 pm

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