Ofgem to pronounce at 7am Friday - something close to £3,650 effective from 1 Oct.
Next cap wef 1 Jan will be announced late Nov - nothing less than £5,000 is my guess.
Some limited intervention by government may mitigate slightly but expect a significant increase in excess deaths due to hypothermia if winter is 'normal' and nhs isn't overwhelmed by new variant covid; if a severe winter - bring out the bodybags.
Diverting tory hot air to deprived areas could help...
I'm just glad I'm single and don't pay by direct debit.. That's a licence to get your bum raided.
Someone said to me the other day that it's a win-win for the government- because of covid excess deaths, the additional deaths caused by hypothermia and related conditions this year will be lost against that. Meanwhile, whenever they're looking at covid deaths in future they'll compare it to this year's increased "normal". And here I thought I was cynical!
I’m just glad I pay by direct debit so can spread it over the year.
I'm just glad I am built like a seal.
Protest planned for this afternoon outside the Ofgem office in Glasgow 👍🏼
I’m just glad I’m single and don’t pay by direct debit.. That’s a licence to get your bum raided.
We did this in the don't pay thread, but by paying quarterly you're getting your bum raided by a couple of hundred pounds extra per year vs dual fuel DD payment discounts.
I know the DD's do go up with the cap and in some cases the increases have been seemingly higher than needed. But, it's still your money; a few clicks and you can set it and a different few clicks and you can get the excess back to your account.
You're not sticking it to the man, you're still paying, and probably more than you need to. If you have fantastic investment opp for what you haven't been building up over the summer/low usage period though, I'm all ears.
October £3549 announced.
Jan £5389 latest Cornwall insights prediction
October £3549 announced.
Jan £5389 latest Cornwall insights prediction
And for the actual numbers, 52p per kWh. Standing charging 46p.
Up from 28p and 45p.
I may have to go back to work! Or downsize the stable! EEwings anyone?
Just finished a refurb on the house I bought when I moved to Scotland from abroad. Very energy efficient but no savings now with the new pricing. Even worse than the 60s heating and electrics it replaced 🙁
The energy companies need to take one for the team here. War footing.
Our dog is starting to look like an amazingly good investment. Mobile insulation, runs on nothing more than dogfood, scraps from the dishwasher, and the occasional disgusting thing found in the hedges.
The loft insulation might help a bit as well.
Sadly it seems the Very Tory Solution to the energy price cap is less about helping people and more about maximising the PR opportunity for the new leader. Hopefully people catch on to the party spinning whilst the nation stresses and suffers. Solving a problem that could have been solved days or weeks earlier is not a sign of a decisive new PM.
We did this in the don’t pay thread, but by paying quarterly you’re getting your bum raided by a couple of hundred pounds extra per year vs dual fuel DD payment discounts.
Indeed, DD will always be cheaper.
Im sure it has been answered elsewhere but why has the standing charge increased so much? It would help if that was the same as before, and at least gave people a chance to lower their energy use to try and keep bills similar.
Im sure it has been answered elsewhere but why has the standing charge increased so much? It would help if that was the same as before, and at least gave people a chance to lower their energy use to try and keep bills similar.
It's increased by 1 pence a day? Combined electric and gas that's going to cost you an extra £7.30 a year...
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/T2HVMgZ2/Screenshot-20220826-091619.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/T2HVMgZ2/Screenshot-20220826-091619.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
at the start of the year it was 26p, so has nearly doubled.
at the start of the year it was 26p, so has nearly doubled.
Ahh, gotcha. Probably blamed on general cost increases.
Our (soon ending) fixed contract has standing charges @11.8p for both.
11.8 to 46 seems a bit more than general cost increases.
They're discussing this on Five Live at the moment. Martin Lewis has been on saying that the government have known this was coming since March and have done absolutely nothing. He says that the only solution is some form of redistributive taxation. Apparently Lizzie is going to look at the issue in a few weeks. I can't see her reaching the same conclusion.
As usual it's going to be those with the least money that will be hit hardest.
Those on pre-payment meters are by default on the highest Tarif and are going to see their average monthly energy bill rise to £714 😳
I don’t know about anything else but that surely brings into play the actual logistics of pre-paying that amount of money
Agreed that a) the government knew this was coming and don't care and b) the delay is to maximise the popularity of the next PM.
It's a bit Commodus at present - let the poor and helpless fight...
Those on pre-payment meters are by default on the highest Tarif and are going to see their average monthly energy bill rise to £714 😳
No they're not! It's been mandatory that they are on SVR for a couple of years now which in normal times IS the highest tarrif but right now is the cheapest as it's the capped rate.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/switch-prepaid-gas-electricity/
As usual it’s going to be those with the least money that will be hit hardest.
Those on pre-payment meters are by default on the highest Tarif and are going to see their average monthly energy bill rise to £714 😳
I don’t know about anything else but that surely brings into play the actual logistics of pre-paying that amount of money
As much as the media talk about it in general, these are going to be the people who are going to have to face the actual heat or eat dilemma.
We're relatively well off but if we needed to find £700 a month through the winter months to cover hearing costs it wouldn't be easy. For anyone unemployed or on minimum wage it will be impossible.
The very idea that those on pre-payment are charged more than those on monthly DD is utterly obscene. I've no idea of the numbers but I think it would be fair to say that the vast majority of pre-payment users are in the lower earnings categories and as such least able to pay.
Would it not be a reasonable thing that everyone pays the same unit charge whether they pay by monthly DD, pay on receipt of the bill or pre-payment? The gas or electric certainly doesn't cost more as a result of the way users pay for it.
Be glad your not on oil for heating
Im sure it has been answered elsewhere but why has the standing charge increased so much? It would help if that was the same as before, and at least gave people a chance to lower their energy use to try and keep bills similar.
different suppliers are welcome to set their balance of unit/standing charge as they wish, as long as the total comes in under the cap for the average household (as defined by ofgem or whoever). They could have 0 standing charge and high unit rates, or a very high standing charge and almost no unit rate.
the only solution is some form of redistributive taxation
- Loft insulation, just like Insulate Britain wanted (but won't do that because that would show up the Conservatives).
- Subsidies for replacing old boilers. I replaced my gas boiler for about £1500, and roughly halved my gas consumption. It's probably going to pay for itself in a year.
- Defeat Russia.
Just when you thought this whole situation couldn't get more insane...
Russian plant ‘burning off £8m of gas a day’ as supply to Germany is limited
No they’re not! It’s been mandatory that they are on SVR for a couple of years now which in normal times IS the highest tarrif but right now is the cheapest as it’s the capped rate.
I think the differnce is that with a prepay meter you have no ability to spread costs over the whole year. If the average cost per month is £300 under the new cap, I can easily see december being £700 if you have to pay the whole cost that month.
It's weird, after a summer of heatwaves, folk are looking at how to insulate their houses to the max to save money, and will then be even more miserable during the next heatwave!
Think it'll be a complete disaster by winter, the government will do their usual, focusing on pensioners in total rather than those who need it the most.
It’s weird, after a summer of heatwaves, folk are looking at how to insulate their houses to the max to save money, and will then be even more miserable during the next heatwave
You're aware that insulation helps keep a house cool in the summer, right?
Insulation works both ways - it's good at keeping heat out in summer as well. A uninsulate brick house is pretty much the worst of all worlds - lets heat leak out in winter and is brilliant at soaking up heat from the sun and conveying it inside in summer.
We're basically at the whims of the weather this winter. If we have a mild winter like last year it'll be grim with people unable to heat their homes and businesses dropping like flies. If it's a 2010 then it'll be a whole world of hurt. If it's a 1976, 1963, 1947 then I can't even imagine how bad it'll be - it'll involve a lot of death that's sure.
Oh absolutely, we've been trying to get my father in law off of one for years but he stubbornly refuses because he would rather not be "giving them money for nothing" in summer (when he actually earns most of his money) than spreading his costs out over the year (and constantly have anxiety about getting home to feed the meter).
Thankfully we may have reached a crossroads as he's been told by the DNO that a smart meter is being installed so we're going to try and push for this to finally get knocked on the head (no doubt it'll be like the double glazing he should have got done years ago and wax lyrical about it forever more).
Frankconway
Full Member
Ofgem to pronounce at 7am Friday – something close to £3,650 effective from 1 Oct.
Next cap wef 1 Jan will be announced late Nov – nothing less than £5,000 is my guess.
Some limited intervention by government may mitigate slightly but expect a significant increase in excess deaths due to hypothermia if winter is ‘normal’ and nhs isn’t overwhelmed by new variant covid; if a severe winter – bring out the bodybags.
Diverting tory hot air to deprived areas could help…
Looking on the brightside, lots of misfortune and forced sales for you in your quest to squeeze people.
After a lifetime of being comfortable this is all a bit new to me;
- Statutory Sick Pay £463/Month.
- Calculated new monthly DD for gas/electric (based on last years use) £355/Month (up from £75/Month about 18 months ago)
- Child Tax credit is also about to stop.
Luckily for us we have investments that we can lean on and my wife is still working part-time, but I genuinely fear for some people who are not as lucky as us.
I had 2tons of Excel smokeless delivered yesterday.
Believe me it's the last thing I wanted to do but we bought our forever house the year before Covid struck (we lived in it 25years ago when we rented it from our friend) and had planned new triple glazed aluminium windows, re-roof/kingspan, and replace the gas boiler and solid fuel stove with a wood chip/biomass unit. Covid knocked all of that on the head so it's solidfuel to see us through.
Sorry Greta.
MrsRNP started a community kitchen during Covid - we collect otherwise waste fresh foodstuffs and she cooks them into usually 3 course meals, she has reached maximum capacity recently but is planning to do more and keeping the building open as a 'warm space'. The local churches and community groups/centres will be lifelines for many people.
[url= https://i.ibb.co/MDZYXvf/2-B209090-42-C9-4-F3-B-8161-C7-C8-D983351-C.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/MDZYXvf/2-B209090-42-C9-4-F3-B-8161-C7-C8-D983351-C.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Martin lewis is on radio 2 (work I've got no choice of station)
He is giving it big balls almost at rage level.
Fair play to him
He definitely appears to have run out of patience with our absentee/bystander government. He got a bit sweary on Five Live in one of his rants. But as he correctly stated: everyone has known this was coming since March and the government has done the sum total of jack shit to address it. It doesn't look like they plan on doing anything either
The labour guy was on earlier saying they would ramp up offshore wind, remove the utterly stupid and nonsensical block to onshore wind and start a huge programme of home insulation.
What we should have been doing for years, but haven't
He is giving it big balls almost at rage level.
He won't be the only one. If this price rise goes through there'll be riots. I note the EnoughisEnough campaign has called for a 'day of action' on 1st October. Expect trouble.
Just listening back to it. You can hear how angry he is, just a source of shame of our government that they can't even show 1% of the same concern
You’re aware that insulation helps keep a house cool in the summer, right?
Yeah, i was just meaning that the way we live in the UK we negate most of the benefits in summer by leaving the doors and windows wide open without air conditioning as a barrier and then insulation does its trick from the inside to out as a barrier.
Im sure it has been answered elsewhere but why has the standing charge increased so much?
Because it can - its not capped. Its how energy companies fund things other than the actual energy you use - things like the social and environmental programs they are compelled to deliver, but also its how they recoup losses. The handful of companies that have become the suppliers of last resort are able to present the costs of all those dozens bancruptcies the sector faced earlier in the year back to the consumers through the standing charge. All the share holders of those failed companies kept their dividends, we all pay for the debts they left behind. Its really quite fair because we all pay the same amount regardless of how much energy we consume or how able we are to pay.
Privatise the profits. Nationalise the losses
Just mentioned on BBC news that the cap is expected to be 5000+ in Jan then 6,600 in march.
Because it can – its not capped.
Yes it is. Average cap at 46p per day from october. Currently 45p.
It can vary slightly from region to region
seosamh - wind your neck in.
I'm not squeezing anyone so suggest you follow the 4Fs - first find the _ facts - before posting.
Just mentioned on BBC news that the cap is expected to be 5000+ in Jan then 6,600 in march.
Is the government banking on us not being able to afford petrol for molotovs?
Pretty staggering to think that prices could be up to £6k + next year - from just over £1k a few years ago.
As with increased food and fuel costs, you just wonder how some people and businesses are going to make it through the next couple of winters.
It’s going to be make or break for Liz Truss - she cannot let further price rises take effect, especially to £5 / £6k - but I’m unsure where she will get the £ ,000’s of £ required per household neither - mayby tax more on Shell etc all’s profits?
As with increased food and fuel costs, you just wonder how some people and businesses are going to make it through the next couple of winters.
Businesses don't have a cap on energy costs. Suppliers are already refusing to quote pubs etc as the don't expect them to make it through winter and don't want the bad debts on their books.
Luckily the government is on the ball and about to announce a £50 billion energy subsidisation program to prevent a massive recession occurring in 3 months time. By that I mean the French government, ours is offering you £400.
Be glad your not on oil for heating
I actually am glad that I am, as the oil price is fairly steady at the moment. Higher than last year, sure, but has come down from the post Ukrain invasion enormo-peak and is holding steady at under £1/L. That's very much not what the gas price is doing.
I'm certainly feeling less smug about my on-order electric car, particularly with Diesel prices now dropping.
Your words and your declared intent.
I know what you're referring to, and you're making a ridiculous extrapolation of what he actually said. Wind it in.
As with increased food and fuel costs, you just wonder how some people and businesses are going to make it through the next couple of winters.
We are a small office for a charity. Just desks and PC.
Owned by Stirling uni. They have no inclination or gain by actually insulating and double glazing it.
We are looking at going from £1300(ish) a year to £5.5k now and £10k predicted....We will pay as much for energy as we will for the office rent.
Just thinking about it:
I walked through an M&S food earlier:
Floor to ceiling glass, single glazed, sun belting through dazzling and overheating the place.
Open freezers and fridges over half the floor - the buzz and noise was huge, with hot air in one place (being blown from bottom of fridges) and freezing air blowing next to it.
Warm air blower on at the doorway - and the door wide open.
Every light on - with of course black walls and black floors and black fridges.
10+ tills with scanners and electric conveyors.
And of course at an out of town shopping area with only a carpark.
It is designed like they *want* to use energy, they *have* to use energy. The bills they will face this winter are scary.
And this is 'Plan A' M&S, proudly on the wall of every store about how sustainable they are.
We have so many industries and fundamentals of life in the UK based on cheap and available energy.
We have so many industries and fundamentals of life in the UK based on cheap and available energy.
The whole country, if not the western world have all taken energy for granted for a very, very long time. Now it's not cheap and plentiful everyone's going to get screwed.
It's not like we've not been warned about our collective energy addiction and the potential for problems of seismic proportions. The only thing that's changed is that it's happened far quicker than anyone expected.
Retail around here is making a minor effort, mainly Lidl and Aldi with new build intermediate sized supermarkets.
A sass at the entry with two automatic doors to pass
Doors on all the fridges
Solar roof
2 x 30 free minute EV chargers
A lot of insulation went into the buildings.
Light and airy
4 tills
Car park of grid concrete blocks with grass growing through
Heat pumps for heating and A/C
Double glazed
However the product overpackaging in both is a disgrace.
Just been into my local Screwfix - all the lights are off! Aircon still going though so prob just a fault but it’s a sign of things to come I imagine…
Just reading how charging a Niro EV fully is going from £18 to £33 (approx) very close to the equivalent cost for Diesel.
So much the wrong message / direction.
Pretty staggering to think that prices could be up to £6k + next year – from just over £1k a few years ago
Martin Lewis did the direct comparison thing earlier
What we’ll be paying for energy by early next year is the equivalent of it being 500 quid to fill an average car with petrol and a pint in the pub being 25 quid
It’s going to be absolute carnage! And we’ve got no government at all at the moment and we’re about to get a PM who couldn’t find her own arse, using both hands
The Chancellor of the Exchequer has said that we'll all just have to be 'more resilient'. Phew, thought they didn't have anything useful for us.
So I’m assuming that supply/demand is causing the price increases, so which countries are going without while we pay through the nose for fuel and who is actually raking in all this extra cash? Can they not be appealed to to sell it at the same price they have been doing in recent years?
Warmth is on the biggest slice of the hierarchy of needs triangle so what do this shitshow if a government think is going to happen? I’d love to know…
The Chancellor of the Exchequer has said that we’ll all just have to be ‘more resilient’. Phew, thought they didn’t have anything useful for us.
Come on now, be fair, he did also say that we should use less energy, as if that's not crossed anyone's minds...
The whole country, if not the western world have all taken energy for granted for a very, very long time. Now it’s not cheap and plentiful everyone’s going to get screwed.
That's just reminded me of something.
Towards the end of junior school, so a class of 11-year olds, teacher Mr Carter predicted this. He ran a little scenario about how fossil fuels are finite. Sorry son, can't pick you up from school, there's no petrol left. TV, nope, we're out of electricity as well. Etc etc.
So I’m assuming that supply/demand is causing the price increases, so which countries are going without while we pay through the nose for fuel and who is actually raking in all this extra cash? C
Here's the simplistic breakdown.
Europe is up to it's neck in excrement due to Russia. It's a fairly localized problem. We're the ones that both import gas from Russia, and have sanctions against them.
It's not a problem for example for say Saudi Arabia, who are currently importing that excess Russian gas, to free up their power stations from burning oil that they are instead exporting to us.
Globally there's limited amounts you can move gas around because it needs liquefying, shipping at -170C in special ships, then storing and vaporizing for use in the grid. So even if we phoned up Australia or the USA and bought some of that LNG that's destined for other markets that isn't already secured on long term contracts, there's a limited dent we can make in those markets.
an they not be appealed to to sell it at the same price they have been doing in recent years?
Simplistically again, no.
Shell/BP/Centrica are all working in the north sea, why would they sell to the UK when the price is set by a bidding war for their product between all the countries they could export to (i.e. northern Europe).
I don't see why EV owners should get discounted charging, when those much less fortunate on prepay meters are in effect subsidising the rich. All for incentives to go green, but making the poor pay for the rich's nice stuff isn't on.
I don’t see why EV owners should get discounted charging, when those much less fortunate on prepay meters are in effect subsidising the rich. All for incentives to go green, but making the poor pay for the rich’s nice stuff isn’t on.
They don't. The EV tariffs have cheaper overnight rates so it's cheaper to charge the car but the daytime rates are much higher than a standard flexible rate.
For eg. Octopus go is currently 7.5p/kWh at the night rate and 40.75p/kWh during the day.
It's only cheaper if you do loads of miles to offset the expensive daytime energy rate.
Pre-pay Vs direct debit tariffs is another matter.
@sqirrelking Thanks for that, I was of the opinion that Pre-Paid users were heavily punished with way more expensive tariffs and I can see that it is actually slightly cheaper (Approx 1p per KkWh).
However, the standing charge for pre-paid gas and electric is circa 5p per day more for a pre-paid meter : £18 per year. I don't see how that is morally right (despite the extra costs of running the terminals in shops etc)
