[Closed] energy foods??

Potatoes are good. They make you feel quite satiated. They've got minerals and vitamins and stuff. Eat potatoes. Especially with other stuff, which removes the current fashionable moan about the speed the carbs are absorbed.

Obvs better than chocolate as a carb source.

Its fashionable to hate on them.

Nothing wrong with a few carbs (provided you are still going to be in calorie deficit) although the more complex the better and potatoes would classify as that. As for Chocolate, even that needn't be excluded entirely although the darker the better in that regard.

Am I lacking carbs in my diet?

Oooh.. this old chestnut.

Here's what I've found out:

1) Some people are better at burning fat than others, and some people's bodies are set up to use more carbs than fat - type I/II muscle fibre ratio, which affects how you process carbs but also how you like to ride, which (probably more) affects what you are driven to eat.

2) You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores. This can be very useful training tool if you are not naturally good at it. You can therefore lose weight by adapting to eat fewer carbs. This is called fasted riding but it also applies I think if you've generally not got enough carbs in your body.

3) However some people can only get so good at it, and will end up riding slowly when they try adapting. High intensity goes out of the window - depending on what high intensity means for you.

4) An alternative approach to losing weight is to eat the carbs and do the high intensity workout, because this boosts metabolism and your body uses more fuel to rebuild itself fitter.

As cyclists we can benefit from both the carb fuelled and carb starved approach - but this depends on your own body. You have to try the different approaches. You probably need to do both to some extent or other.

People tend to laugh at me for saying that people are different and respond differently, but I think it's obvious. You don't see Chris Froome doing 250m sprints at the velodrome or Jason Kenny on the TdF. And I doubt you could make them change places either. Their bodies are completely different, their events are, and their training is too. Then you have people like Wiggins who sit somewhere in between.

the more complex the better and potatoes would classify as that.

Potatoes have a very high GL, as does any 'white' carbs including rice. Even brown bread is quite high. If you want to stay low GI you want other root veg and beans.

I'm just programmed to survive on sugar when exercising and need to break the mental habit.

This suggests you have a higher ratio of type II muscle fibres which means you like working at high intensity or sprinting, and are good at metabolising carbs to do so. Base training for you, with restricted carbs or fasted!

Base training for you, with restricted carbs or fasted!

I like carbs and sprint training and can't stand being fasted. Your recommendation would seem to imply I should fasted train. Not a chance! We're all different.

In my experience, you can push through the dizziness you are feeling, and get used to riding without enough carbs/kcals in your system. Molgrips gives the theory behind this above.

Just keep at it any take it slow when you feel weak, after a while you'll not feel it for general riding, but would probably still crash if you try to do too much high intensity work. If you need to do intervals of more intensive rides, eat enough good food a few hours before.

All I would say when riding essentially fasted, you get super sensitive to high amounts of sugar. You'll suffer from a sugar crash much worse than if you had other fuels in you body... It's hard, but try and stay away from the chocolate.

This is what I experienced, may not be the same for you.

some (not chocolate) carb after riding would be useful, a banana should do the trick, it's as much about the timing as the type though lower GI carbs are better

sensible amounts of potatoes with meals with other veg are ok as the others have said

Good post by molgrips there. However I would add that unless you are specifically trying to train your body to burn fat more efficiently, should should consider a balanced diet approach with more complex carbs and protein seeing as you are trying to lose weight and exercise at the same time

You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores. This can be very useful training tool if you are not naturally good at it. You can therefore lose weight by adapting to eat fewer carbs. This is called fasted riding but it also applies I think if you've generally not got enough carbs in your body.

this guy did 3 back to back marathons on zero calories!

https://blog.adafruit.com/2018/01/01/biohack-running-3-marathons-on-zero-calories/

Carbs are awesome, tasty, full of fuel and makes for interesting food. Just keep it in moderation and go for good dark chocolate.

From that link

My own interest was in being the first person to set a record for running multiple marathons using zero calories.

Thermodynamics fail.

However I would add that unless you are specifically trying to train your body to burn fat more efficiently

True, but it sounds like from his last sentence that he could do with it.

As a type II person myself, I found that doing proper base training was the main thing that helped with endurance. But then fasted riding really helped on top of that. The super low GI diet was also good at weight loss. But I plateaued on it, and then eating more carbs to increase the intensity promoted further weight loss. It's worth experimenting. I need a balance between the intensity I ride and the carbs I eat.

It's worth paying attention to fuel whilst riding. If I ride without taking on any carbs I get extremely hungry for the following few days. I think it is a good idea to fuel carbs around riding, and not at other times. So I drink 1/2 to 2/3 of the recommended strength of maltodextrin during riding, and then have maybe 50g of carb/protein mix after a ride. This needn't be expensive - lots of places on the internet ship maltodextrin in bulk for less than the equivalent food would cost.

If you are riding fasted, I'd suggest not having any food 4 hours before the ride (overnight is best) and then not taking on anything until the first 45 mins has elapsed. This is meant to get your fat metabolic pathways working. I've no idea if that's true or not but I certainly get a second wind by that point in the ride and I find myself drinking far less energy drink overall. If it's more than 3-4 hours riding fasted though I find I need to force myself to drink more than I want to or I'll start getting tired and cramp twinges.

If you want to lose weight I'd suggest:

1) High mileage of course - but steady speed, and one fasted ride a week. Preferably steady road, but you really need to work on the sustained steadiness - HR helps with this. My MTB rides have to be more intense due to the terrain available, but keep out of the red.

2) Very low GI (i.e. veg, beans, eggs, meat and cheese) for all your meals. Lots of veg, served creatively.

3) Whilst riding, the carb recommendations above.

4) Also a re-feed day where you can eat what you like once a week.

This works well for me, I just have trouble sticking to 1 and 2!

OR

You could hit the weights instead. That's a whole other thread.

Lots of ways to lose weight!

I think your first point is really important, I’m assuming you’re recommending a traditional base build phase doing lots and lots of low intensity mileage. That does work for some people but you need to put in a ton of time to achieve it.

If OP wants to build ftp, or is simply time crunched and want to build fitness, hes going to need to be doing more intensive rides over a lower time frame which is not going to lend itself to fasting.

I think it helps to have an understanding of how well you perform without fuel, personally I do fairly intense 90-120 min fasted rides on the turbo on the weekend. Hard enough to deplete my glycogen stores but not long enough that I’m really going to screw myself up.

thanks guys, my mate says i'm actually doing too much.

This was my weekend: all recorded on my fitbit Ionic
9am Sat 5Km Parkrun 790 cals
11am Swim at 11am 505 cals
2-4 pm Inline skating 1,109 cals

Sunday
1.5Km swim 497 Cals
2-4pm inline skating 1,203 cals

Then Monday night I have Badminton for an hour
Tuesday Night Badminton for 1.5 hours
Wed night 3 hours of inline skating
Thursday same as Wed
Friday off to pub

I drink about 3 pints of beer a week, no bread, no pasta but shit loads of chocolate.

But i'm still 18 stone but fairly fit.

Hmm yes but for me, doing higher intensity led to depleted carb stores which leads to vastly increased appetite for carbs and/or the weak feeling that the OP is describing. Having better base will help him ride better in his fat burning zone and then consequently keep the eating under control when not riding.

You're right about base needing a lot of time, and this may not be what he wants. But I think eating is driven by what riding he is doing, and if that's higher intensity it might be driving his urge for sugary junk. But then, if he's not taking carbs whilst riding, starting doing so might help. It really does for me.

my mate says i'm actually doing too much.

That's a lot of high intensity. If you want to keep doing that I'd suggest carbs around the exercise as I said, and keep the GI elsewhere as low as possible. And MTFU about the chocolate, that does no-one any favours.

no bread, no pasta

What do you actually eat then besides chocolate?

I'd say you'd benefit from adding some resistance training to that lot.

It's good to lift!

When I lost a load of weight, I swapped white potatoes for sweet potatoes - a permanent change as it happens, as I actually prefer the taste (still use proper pots for a roastie, obvs) and junk chocolate for very (80-90%) dark choc which I also prefer the taste of now & is not terrible for you in moderation

It's like Apple vs Windows/Android....but for food.

I don't know if you're doing too much, but you're certainly doing plenty !

when you say 'loads' of chocolate, how much really ? What else are you eating ? What's breakfast, lunch etc usually.

It's like Apple vs Windows/Android....but for food.

10 Things You Won't Believe About What The Latest Version Of Potatoes Can Do For Your Diet!

Sorry, crossthreading a bit there.

when you say 'loads' of chocolate, how much really ? What else are you eating ? What's breakfast, lunch etc usually.

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys. I only drink coke zero which i just can't stop drinking that either.

when i cook a main meal it's normally either a chicken breast with a plate of veg or something like chilli made to slimming world/hairy Bikers less than 500 calories specs.

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers.

if I cut the chocolate out i'd probably lose 6,000 calories a week alone, but when I do is when I feel like i'm about to bonk.

I've stopped cycling as i'm trying more low resistance stuff like swimming and walking because I can do them and not feel the need to sugar up

All that sugar is just creating massive peaks and troughs in your blood sugar so no wonder you crash.

The simple answer is to eat better, more slow release energy foods and cut out all that sugar. It’s not helping, actually it’s the source of your feelings of low energy

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

What, a day?

Put those down!

if I cut the chocolate out i'd probably lose 6,000 calories a week alone, but when I do is when I feel like i'm about to bonk.

What you are doing is trying to eat low calorie low carb meals, then hammering your body's glycogen stores. Your body then says shit, you need carbs, and this makes you want chocolate.

Try the energy drink during (or most likely after) exercise. People will criticise that idea, but the point is that it's taste neutral so you can very easily control how much you have. Chocolate and even potatoes are delicious, so that fact alone makes you want to eat more.

I'm confused. You say:

At the moment i'm mainly eating meat and veg, no bread, no potatoes and no pasta.

but then:

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers

So three nights out of seven you actually are still eating bread or potatoes.

and

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys

That coke zero isn't good for you, either!

You need to introduce some consistency into your eating, perhaps with some help from something like Joe Wicks or Dr Chaterjee or something similar. Your diet seems a bit too haphazard at the moment for it to be successful.

Sandwiches, kebabs, chips, chocolate and coke zero on a regular basis don't really smack of a healthy diet to me.

4 or 5 bars of chocolate such as double decker etc.

That’s 1500 calories a day. 1500!

I'm confused. You say:

At the moment i'm mainly eating meat and veg, no bread, no potatoes and no pasta.
but then:

couple of kebabs a week and a steak and chips on a friday night with a few beers
So three nights out of seven you actually are still eating bread or potatoes.

and

For lunch often have a sandwich from sainsburys
That coke zero isn't good for you, either!

You need to introduce some consistency into your eating, perhaps with some help from something like Joe Wicks or Dr Chaterjee or something similar. Your diet seems a bit too haphazard at the moment for it to be successful.

Sandwiches, kebabs, chips, chocolate and coke zero on a regular basis don't really smack of a healthy diet to me.

well now you put it like that 😆

As a starter for ten, try only eating food you’ve prepared yourself, from scratch. No fizzy drinks either!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/25/is-sugar-really-as-addictive-as-cocaine-scientists-row-over-effect-on-body-and-brain

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2016/jan/19/high-carb-or-high-fat-the-running-diet-debate

😯 at geordiemick00's diet, impressive eating there 😆

Maybe sign up to MFP and just start logging what you normally eat. Sounds like it might be quite an eye opener. Then start making small adjustments that take you where you want to go. Major diet overhauls are crap and don't work. Get informed. Do it gradually. Don't cut stuff out, swap stuff, make better choices.

6000kcal of chocolate a week!
That's the stuff of legends.

Think molgrips covered most things pretty well already.

For my 2p worth:
You're doing quite a lot of high intensity exercise, its worth fuelling with a sports drink for med/high intensity sessions over 1hr and a refuel (ideally a main meal) after.
As someone else suggested, use MFP to track your calorie intake/expenditure. Not going to say cut the chocolate completely, but maybe cut down to 1 bar a day and a square or 2 of dark chocolate for a treat.

When I’m shedding my yearly timber I always have a box of Almond or Coc orange Bounce Balls in the cupboard.

About 200 Cals each but they fill a gap and have a better GI than a choc bar.

get some proper advice fromn a dietician if you want advice. The nonsense on this thread is unbelievable especially the stuff about fat metabolism and so on. Do not listen to armchair "sports scientists" or "nutritionists"

there is one simple way to lose weight - run a calorie deficit. IE eat less move more. Its really that simple. How you get your calories is irrelevant (apart from fructose which the consensus is changing on)

2000 calories of lard or 2000 calories of lean meat are still 2000 calories and will have exactly the same effects on your weight

What you do after your exercise makes almost no difference, sports drinks are simply highly processed sugars and muck up your insulin response and are empty calories

What you need is a well balance diet with little refined sugar and low ( for the west) protein consumption and to run a calorie deficit

The nonsense on this thread is unbelievable especially the stuff about fat metabolism and so on.

I take it you're a qualified dietician then?

NOpe hence I recommend a proper dietician - but I do have qualifications and training in the area and enough knowledge to know much of what is stated on this thread is utter nonsense.

Link me to a proper peer reviewed paper that backs up the stuff I have called "ridiculous nonsense"

for example the 4:1 carbs to protein thing that has become a standard in sports for recovery drinks. I followed links from a company claiming this stuff works for recovery. the original research was actually done on malnourished elderly and these snake oil potions has been shown to have zero effect on healthy adults doing recreational sport

@tj I'm far from an expert, and i'm not about to spend an evening digesting entire scientific papers, but how about this one?

[url= https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235033 ]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12235033[/url]

NOpe hence I recommend a proper dietician - but I do have qualifications and training in the area and enough knowledge to know much of what is stated on this thread is utter nonsense.

What can utterly self defeating statement. So you're not qualified however you're qualified enough to judge the advice of others. Well done

Interesting one fifeandy and not one I found when following the research last time I looked. looking at the full paper this stands out
" However, more recent studies have taken issue with the benefits of adding protein to a carbohydrate supplement (7, 15,27, 29, 30). Results from these studies suggested that the enhancement in muscle glycogen storage found in the study by Zawadzki et al. was simply due to a greater amount of calories provided during the CHO-Pro treatment compared with the carbohydrate treatment. Moreover, it was suggested that if adequate carbohydrates were provided, the addition of protein would have no beneficial effect on muscle glycogen recovery (15). It should be noted, however, that the carbohydrate supplement used by Zawadzki et al. had previously been shown to maximize muscle glycogen storage during recovery when provided immediately postexercise and at 2 h intervals thereafter (3, 12, 14). Thus it is possible that significant differences in experimental designs and supplement compositions could account for the lack of agreement among studies"

Jonnyboi

I know enough to read and analyse research papers and have a basic understanding of physiology. I know enough to ask the right questions and to sift the snake oil out

So much of what is stated on here as fact is utter nonsense to anyone with even a basic understanding. I have enough knowledge to know this when its stated a fact on here but is simply physiologically impossible without suspending thermodynamics

Really, which bits then. Because apart from an odd link or two that was refuted pretty much all of the posts were fairly informed.

Obviously as an unqualified individual who's read a few journals your opinion should trump all others.

Pretty much all of the advice is nonsense. what it is is the marketting guff from the comanies selling snake oil reguritated as fact.

You can train yourself to be better at burning fat by riding with lower carb stores.

Bullshine

So I drink 1/2 to 2/3 of the recommended strength of maltodextrin during riding, and then have maybe 50g of carb/protein mix after a ride.

Relying on malto dextrin - a mix of very highly refined sugars of dubious provenance - you don't even know what mix of sugars it is. all this does is kick your insulin response into a hiugh gear leading to sugar crashes. maltodextrin is simply sugar that does not taste sweet

jonnyboi - Member

All that sugar is just creating massive peaks and troughs in your blood sugar so no wonder you crash.

The simple answer is to eat better, more slow release energy foods and cut out all that sugar. It’s not helping, actually it’s the source of your feelings of low energy

this is correct - but maltodextrin does the same ie creates peaks and troughs or if you ingest it continuously just kicks your insulin response into high gear leading to a serious crash afterwards

For my 2p worth:
You're doing quite a lot of high intensity exercise, its worth fuelling with a sports drink for med/high intensity sessions over 1hr and a refuel (ideally a main meal) after.

sports drinks? Ie quick release sugar is not helpful

etc etc

I have given the correct dvise - go to a properly trained professional if you want proper advice. don't listen to the nonsense some folk on here regurgitated from marketing bumf

So you're not qualified however you're qualified enough to judge the advice of others. Well done

Not read the thread or the spat but one does not need to be a complete expert, though it will help, to analyse advice or opinions

@tj, a bit harder to search for papers on sports drinks as google results get contaminated will all kinds of media crap.

Pretty sure lucozade have a paper to support their 33% longer claim as they fought a false advertising case and won, and High5 have details of a study they performed in conjunction with a university.

But its one you can easily test out in a scientific study of 1, and pretty much anyone that races a bike will tell you the same.
Go try and ride flat out for 2hrs, almost 100% chance you'll run out of gas and power will drop off somewhere around the 90min mark.
Do it again and try to eat solid food and you'll get some combination of stomach cramps/puking/crapping
Do it again with an isotonic drink and you've got a good chance of hitting 2hrs if you've got the muscular endurance for it.

Article here with several papers referenced to support it.
[url= http://www.mysportscience.com/single-post/2015/05/14/Carb-mixes-and-benefits ]http://www.mysportscience.com/single-post/2015/05/14/Carb-mixes-and-benefits[/url]

@tjagain, well done. You’re starting to realise what a constructive comment should look like. It would have been more helpful if you’d done that first eh? But I am a little confused why you cherry picked some responses. I take it you agree with all the comments that molgrips made apart from the one about fasted riding?

And on that, what are your reasons for thinking that structured asted rides to deplete glycogen stores does not create an efficiency improvement in your ability to burn fat as fuel?

I cannot believe I am about to get drawn into this again but:

there is one simple way to lose weight - run a calorie deficit.

As has been said many many times, and you want to ignore - your body is not a simple machine. It varies the calorie expenditure based on what you put in. Your metabolic rate will change depending on how much you eat. That's why (for example) weight training has been proven to be more effective than calorie restriction for weight loss.

Calorie restriction DOES work, of course, for many people particularly the obsese; but for many people such as those trying to train hard and/or who are looking to drop a few % body fat it is not the best way. You say you have a BASIC knowledge of physiology, but it's just that - basic. We are talking about a more specific situation.

You have read some journals. Well done - I have done a lot of experimentation on myself, and I have discovered certain effects which are also backed up by other things I have read. You have to remember that scientific papers have to be limited to highly specific experimental conditions, and if those conditions do not match what any particular rider is experiencing, the results will not apply.

Relying on malto dextrin - a mix of very highly refined sugars of dubious provenance - you don't even know what mix of sugars it is.

It's made from corn starch, and the label gives you a percentage pure maltodextrin. They might be lying, but since it's illegal I doubt it. You could accuse them all of lying, but that's incredibly unhelpful.

[url= https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/maltodextrin.html ]This is what I've been using.[/url]

all this does is kick your insulin response into a hiugh gear leading to sugar crashes. maltodextrin is simply sugar that does not taste sweet

What you are saying about high insulin response leading to sugar crash is correct *at rest*. However when you are exercising hard, the situation is different. Insulin promotes uptake of glucose into muscle cells, which is exactly what you want when exercising intensely.

There is a lot of debate surrounding eating carbs immediately after working out, but much of this is aimed at debunking the things written by those selling column inches to gym bunnies, not cyclists. I can tell you from personal experimentation that for me, it is much easier to control how much carbohydrate I consume if I use maltodextrin during and after a ride. If I simply eat big meals, I will probably end up consuming too much carbohydrate and not lose weight. The longer I spend with low glycogen stores, the hungrier I'll get. If I have maltodextrin after a ride, then two hours later when I'm ready to eat a meal, I'll have a normal appetite and I can eat a sensible amount of low GI carbs which will include lots of veg and pulses etc. If I don't, I'll be starving and end up eating a much starchier meal so the veg will be replaced by bread or rice or whatever. This is not as good for me.

Do you have any experience of actual training and weight loss efforts, TJ? Or do you just ride recreationally?

Also - fasted riding is talked about on the British Cycling website. I choose to believe they have more than 'a basic knowledge' of physiology.

[url= https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/nutrition/article/izn20150818-All-Cycling-Fasted-Morning-Rides-0 ]Here's a link.[/url] The bit you'll quote I'm sure is that "The research study jury is still out on the performance benefits of fasted training" but you'll note that is followed by "but the anecdotal evidence from riders is strong". That's why I suggest trying it.

You'll notice that I'm strongly advocating personal experimentation. You however are simply arguing that you know best. I don't think you have much actual experience in this area.

No - I am arguing that what you say and the science differ greatly. anecdote is not evidence

for example on the cho / protein onein the article quoted above it refers to one study showing positive effects and five that do not ie the scioence is far from conclusive

Maltodextrin is a byproduct of industrial farming that the producers keep on trying to find uses for and is a mix of different length CHO chains and you do not know the composition of the mix.

From your link molgrips
"Maltodextrin is a sugar called a polysaccharide. It is manufactured from starch and gets its name due to its formation from Dextrose [b]polymers of different lengths[/b]" so you actually do not know the GI index of this industrial waste you are taking as a food supplement

As has been said many many times, and you want to ignore - your body is not a simple machine. It varies the calorie expenditure based on what you put in. Your metabolic rate will change depending on how much you eat. That's why (for example) weight training has been proven to be more effective than calorie restriction for weight loss.

Utter bollox. running a calorie deficit is the only way to lose weight and there is no way on earth that expending 1000 calories with one form of exercise will make you lose weight more than expending 1000 calories in a different form of exercise

Utter bollox. running a calorie deficit is the only way to lose weight and there is no way on earth that expending 1000 calories with one form of exercise will make you lose weight more than expending 1000 calories in a different form of exercise

From what i've read, that's not true? Certain exercise types give an 'after-burn' effect where the metabolism stays higher than others for longer, e.g high intensity exercise etc ? Which in turn has an effect of burning more calories ?

Utter bollox. running a calorie deficit is the only way to lose weight and there is no way on earth that expending 1000 calories with one form of exercise will make you lose weight more than expending 1000 calories in a different form of exercise

Please don't get angry TJ. It's not going to help anyone.

If you do 1000 calories worth of intense exercise, you will deplete your glycogen stores. Your body needs to replenish these, so you either do so via a carbohydrate drink or some other food. In my experience it's easier to control carbohydrate intake (i.e. not eat too much) with carb drink than normal food.

As I understand it, if you eat carbs when your glycogen stores are low, the insulin released will promote glucose uptake and replenish your stores. If you eat carbs when your glycogen stores are full, the released insulin will encourage lipogenesis i.e. fat creation.

If you do 1000 calories worth of low intensity exercise, you will mostly burn fat, and then your glycogen stores will not be depleted, and you should not have a carb drink.

So it does matter what exercise you do.

Also, if you deplete your carb stores and keep them low, two things will happen. You will not be able to exercise as intensely, so your 1000 calories of exercise will likely end up being less, but also your base metabolic rate will slow eventually. So whilst you might be doing say 800 calories of exercise, when you *aren't* exercising you will be using fewer calories. So your overall expenditure could end up being the same or even lower.

Again, this is why calorie restriction has been shown scientifically to be less effective than calorie restriction. Suggest you google for papers.

From your link molgrips
"Maltodextrin is a sugar called a polysaccharide. It is manufactured from starch and gets its name due to its formation from Dextrose polymers of different lengths" so you actually do not know the GI

Well if the chain lengths follow a consistent distribution then yes you would know the GI. And its GI has been tested and is known. It's high. Which is what we want from it.

I'm not going to get drawn into the emotive and passive aggressive elements of your posts. Let's keep it rational.

anecdote is not evidence

Indeed, which is why I'm suggesting the OP try different things and figure out what works on a personal level.

Well if the chain lengths follow a consistent distribution then yes you would know the GI. And its GI has been tested and is known. It's high. Which is what we want from it.

they do not follow a consistent distribution tho so the GI index of any particular batch is not known. I have seen tests on maltodextrin that have been high and low GI results. Its usually close to glucose.

this is my issue with your assertions molgrips - basic misunderstandings of the starting position so GIGO

ts usually close to glucose

Then that's good, it's what we want.

basic misunderstandings of the starting position

No, I understand everything you say, and I have also read same and been told for 20 years. What I am talking about [i]moves on[/i] from that to more specific circumstances relating to amateur cyclists trying to lose stubborn weight whilst getting faster.

What a shame, the direction this thread has taken.

I'm not going to agree or disagree with any of the posts above but I think in the context of the OP's situation he's got some more basic steps to take with his diet before he starts looking at the complexity of fuelling his workouts.

When you're first starting out, small changes and consistency are what create positive results.

And you can't out-train a bad diet. He needs to get his diet sorted first. If he eats well then he'll have the energy to exercise.

good post Wallop

Sorry for my part in making this a pointless argument. I just get so frustrated with people making statements that are marketing bumf presented as fact

I just get so frustrated with people making statements that are marketing bumf presented as fact

Yes, me too, but that's not what I'm doing. If you read my comments from the start, you'll see that the first thing I suggest is to stop eating the chocolate and get fuel from real food.

THEN I suggest that using carb drink *can* help control hunger cravings after lots of exercise, and that the OP may wish to experiment with such. Then you lost your shit, and said some things that apply to sugary drinks taken *at rest* not carb drink taken during exercise.

My point is he needs to experiment, to try and find what works for him and his exercise. He should of course cut out the chocolate, but he will need to replace it with something if he's feeling shaky and weak.

and said some things that apply to sugary drinks taken *at rest* not carb drink taken during exercise.

More basic misundertanding

there is no metabolic difference between "sugary drinks" and maltodextrin. Maltodextrin is sugar. Sports drinks containing maltodextrin are "sugary drinks"

CAN BOTH OF YOU STOP NOW PLEASE K THANKS

there is no metabolic difference between "sugary drinks" and maltodextrin. Maltodextrin is sugar. Sports drinks containing maltodextrin are "sugary drinks"

I know why you are saying this. But I suspect you do not know the whole story.

And you can't out-train a bad diet. He needs to get his diet sorted first. If he eats well then he'll have the energy to exercise.

This is true, and stated by a few of us from early on. My issue was that tjagain just jumped in with blanket criticism rather than making the effort to be constructive.

People can be constructive and incorrect, it’s more helpful to point that out rather than insulting them

remember reading something Joe Barnes said once about him hoovering bowls of mashed potato before races as its the perfect fuel?? might be complete bollocks but i didnt need to hear any more - i effing LOVE mashed potato!!

jeez, this has gone scientific real quick.

Next question, anyone know where I can lease a car from?
*asking for a brother in law 😆

there is no way on earth that expending 1000 calories with one form of exercise will make you lose weight more than expending 1000 calories in a different form of exercise

Surely 1000 calories of muscle building exercise (weightlifting) will burn more calories than 1000 calories of slow jogging? Having more muscle will increase daily calorie burn?

Surely 1000 calories of muscle building exercise (weightlifting) will burn more calories than 1000 calories of slow jogging?

You might want to think about that 🙂

No he's right.

Different exercise has different effects on the body. If you expend 1000 calories lifting heavy weights, that's a big workout, and your metabolic rate will be higher for a while afterwards because you're repairing the damage you do i.e. responding to stimulus. Do this regularly and you'll increase testosterone levels which on their own will make you leaner regardless. Also you'll build more muscle which itself will use more energy to keep alive even when you're sleeping. Do you ever go on a long hard bike ride then find you're warm afterwards as your body recovers? You get warm legs in bed that night? I do. That heat is a by product of your increased metabolic rate as you recover.

1000 calories worth of light jogging won't do much except use about 500 cals of fat.

Getting back on topic I would seriously recommend my fitness pal to the OP. He can log his food and his exercise and see the levels of various nutrients. Including sugar! In his diet

He said he’s already using it...

Though he’s not getting enough of a shock from all the calories he must be logging!

Wallop / jonnyboi -0 point taken but its tricky when nonsense is posted like ......................... muffled screams

And another positive thread giving an OP some fairly decent advice descends into yet another pointless arguement.....

Though he’s not getting enough of a shock from all the calories he must be logging!

Gotta use it right.

I think the OP is trying to diet too hard and then ending up giving in to the cravings frequently, so he's ending up eating more at the wrong times and his body is getting its calories one way or another to maintain weight. Bodies want to maintain weight. Careful judicious use of energy drink helps me keep this under control.

TJ - just a tip. If someone posts something you don't agree with, don't go off on one ranting and raving. Just cordially disagree and post an alternative. If you were in the pub I'm sure it's what you'd do, I can't imagine you'd be ranting and raving like you do on here. At least not for the first few pints 🙂

Molgrips just a tip. Perhaps lay off the passive aggressive bulshit. I have read the whole thread and TJ doesnt seem angry at all.

Different exercise has different effects on the body. If you expend 1000 calories lifting heavy weights, that's a big workout, and your metabolic rate will be higher for a while afterwards because you're repairing the damage you do i.e. responding to stimulus

This is however pure bull shit and like the best bullshit its got some facts in it. At the end of the day 1000 calories is 1000 calories. Sure intense exercise will keep your metabolism higher for longer, but that means the exercise burnt more than 1000 calaries!!

This is however pure bull shit and like the best bullshit its got some facts in it. At the end of the day 1000 calories is 1000 calories. Sure intense exercise will keep your metabolism higher for longer, but that means the exercise burnt more than 1000 calaries!!

I'd suggest that using the word 'bullshit' is aggressive itself.

But you are splitting hairs - I thought it obvious what timidwheeler meant and he is still right. 1000 calories of weight lifting will burn more than 1000 calories in total. An important and useful point.

I'd suggest that using the word 'bullshit' is aggressive itself.

Harden up princess. I'd suggest it just means he thinks you are talking bollocks

My point was that after a 1000 calorie light work out you burn no additional calories. After a 1000 calorie weightlifting work out you will have a greater muscle mass which will raise your BMR leading to further increased calorie burn. There is nothing difficult or controversial about that observation.

How are all the experts getting on with their recommendations?

Cook properly, move more, eat less.

Cook properly, move more, eat less.

And when that leaves you feeling weak, what should you do?

As a passing observer, I would suggest the OP stands to lose a chunk of weight if he ditches the chocolate. In the context of the STW sub forum about diet/weight loss, this is a pretty straightforward case, doctor.

Have I understood that right and can we move on?

PS: FWIW OP, and from experience, the sugar cravings stop after a week or so and you'll find the taste of really sugary food less pleasant afterwards. You just have to get through the first week.

In the context of the STW sub forum about diet/weight loss, this is a pretty straightforward case, doctor.

Well, the thing is that he is eating them because he is hungry, and he's hungry because of the amount of exercise he's doing. So he'll need to replace them with something else. Simply having bigger starchier evening meals may not be the solution; likewise simply MTFUing and not eating.

timidwheeler - Member

after a 1000 calorie light work out you burn no additional calories. After [b]a 1000 calorie weightlifting work out you will have a greater muscle mass [/b]which will raise your BMR leading to further increased calorie burn. [b]There is nothing difficult or controversial about that observation[/b].

Except it's wrong. Lifting weights isn't going to mean you have more muscle mass unless you do it consistently and in a calorific surplus.