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This can be clearly seen as as a plume of steam coming out.
The plume is no indication of whether it's condensing or not. It's perfectly normal to have a thick plume when the boiler is running in condensing mode because the exhaust is at a relatively cool temperature.
You can't remove all the water from the combustion process and arguably an exhaust that isn't pluming can be an indication that the boiler exhaust is too hot.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermometer-Temperature-External-Refrigerator-INRIGOROUS/dp/B074BSC1XD
I stuck these on the flow / return / hot water pipes by the boiler to set the temperature appropriately. They're just taped to the pipe with a smidge of thermal compound.
Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding small business energy?
Local pub owner in Bath (Bath Pub co, 3 quality gastro type pubs) said on twitter his combined energy bills for all 3 were £80k usually but he's been quoted £245k (!!) for his renewal. This will be a business killer surely for many.
I own a pub/hotel there and we've been quoted roughly double (so not as bad as him..) but our quote is for a fixed 4 years electric and a fixed 3 years gas.
Any thoughts on whether to bite on the fixed offers?
If you have a condensing combi gas boiler, it is worth considering turning down the flow temperature on the boiler. Condensing boilers only work efficiency if the return temperature is below 45 degrees C, this would normally correspond to a flow temperature around 50-60 degrees.
Typically they are set-up to operate with a flow temperature of 80 degrees and return at 60 degrees. At these temperatures the boiler is not condensing. This can be clearly seen as as a plume of steam coming out. This will knock the efficiency back by around 10-25% when heating. This equates to 6-8% on overall gas bills (including hot water).
This is all spot on, apart from the bit about a plume. My boiler has weather compensation and typically modulates to a flow temperature of 50-55 deg C. Yet a plume is still clearly visible.
This is all spot on, apart from the bit about a plume. My boiler has weather compensation and typically modulates to a flow temperature of 50-55 deg C. Yet a plume is still clearly visible.
Yes, you are right. I should have said that the plume will be more significant. From Worcester Bosch:
Along with heat, when gas or oil is burned within your boiler condensation is also created. This can be seen in the gases which plume out from the boiler, something that is especially noticeable in cold weather. However in addition to this condensate being discharged in the air, condensate also collects inside the boiler and is drained away either inside or outside your home. This is safe and nothing to worry about.
When condensing efficiently, a greeter proportion (but not all) will be condensed as water rather than in the air.
Any thoughts on whether to bite on the fixed offers?
Always remember that you're dealing with a business that ideally needs to make profit and they will be backed by analysts who want to ensure that this happens.
Generally fixed deals in any industry, whether it's a mortgage, energy, etc, will be in favour of that business. As a consumer you get certainty, but you might be better with a variable/tracker rate.
It all depends on the power of your crystal ball
It all depends on the power of your
crystal ballexit fee
With the right exit fee ...it's just hedging your bets. Unlike mortgages where exit fees can be and often are into the thousands.
I've had zero comms from octopus about any increase. although I'm ~£300 in credit, I would normally have pulled that back but decided to leave it there to buffer the rises a bit.
Exactly the same as me.
I thought I’ve have heard from Octopus by now but they’ve been eerily quiet.
I’m sure it’s coming though.
I got my updated pricing from SP this morning, had to have a wee sit down. Annual now north of 5 grand !
I got my updated pricing from SP this morning, had to have a wee sit down. Annual now north of 5 grand !
hyperventilates into paper bag....
I'm expecting the same north of £5k... let's say SP's 'fixed' tarif offer is double what I'm paying now, and I recon my bill will go up 50%, not double.
4.5k to 6.6k!!
Ha ha, no i was wrong, it's 6.8k now. Might have to turn the pool down a notch.
I'm logging my use weekly now so I can see the Kwh used in leccy.
The Hot tub is a big consumer - think 1kwh kettle on all the time. I've added insulation to the top (kingspan on the lid) and I'll be dropping the temperature when we aren't about. we're also drying washing on an clothes airer using the dehumidifier - the dryer isn't going on unless desparate.
I thought I’ve have heard from Octopus by now but they’ve been eerily quiet.
They emailed me last week to up my bill by about 20% because we're using a little bit more than expected - but that must be based on the existing capped rate as it's still less than £100/month combined.
Yes, you are right. I should have said that the plume will be more significant.
External weather conditions will also impact the visibility of any plume.
Also, only need to highlight that boiler temps should only be turned down on combi boilers, system boilers need higher temps to keep legionella at bay in the hw tank.
I have a relatively old small fridge with a small freezer compartment inside it.
It works.
Freezer box fills with ice over a period of time. Defrosting it is a chore.
I have a spare smart wi-fi plug which I could use to power down the fridge over night when not in use and only power up during the day. Maybe 8 hours on 16 hours off.
I guess this will help with both the icing up of the freezer box and reduce the amount of energy used by the fridge during the night when it is shut.
Will this damage any components of my fridge?
Will it save me any cash? Or will the fridge just work harder during the day to cool the fridge back down?
Maybe I should just adjust the thermostat?
I'm in the process of defrosting the freezer box and I've set up the smart plug already.
Will it save me any cash? Or will the fridge just work harder during the day to cool the fridge back down?
Maybe I should just adjust the thermostat?
No
Yes
Yes
Thanks for the reply.
I think I'll leave the smart plug in for the time being just so I don't forget to turn the fridge back on later.
We bought a large heavy duty clothes dryer the other day for £20. Changing our patterns this dries a whole load of washing sitting in the dining room in 24hrs, saving an estimated £1.75 vs the tumble drier per wash - 12 uses which is pretty much a week-and-half and we start saving money.
On an environmental basis I wish we'd thought of this sooner.
Will this damage any components of my fridge?
I'd be suprised, fridges / freezers work by cycling the pump on and off every few minutes for years on end. By switching it off for say 8 hours the pump will have a longer on interval come morning and I would expect it's overall life would be longer as it's normally the on/off cycling which stress motors etc.
However, I'd expect the internal temp to rise quite a bit as they leak heat quiet a bit - our freezer / fridge motors switch on/off 24/7 contintually - see our smart meter trace:
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/693/21427094454_de0d917d04.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/693/21427094454_de0d917d04.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yDrsF1 ]Neurio Energy By Minute[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
And yet an unopened freezer keeps food frozen for 48hrs.
Still not got ours yet from British Gas.
Currently on £100 a month for both. Probably don’t even use that much house stays consistently above 19 Celsius even on the coldest of days.
Maybe gets a boost to 25 once a day which takes 20 minutes.
Currently £465 in credit. Gas use in summer is probably about £20 a month.
Had this through today, mine is going up loads. No idea about leccy, it is PAYG
The Hot tub is a big consumer – think 1kwh kettle on all the time. I’ve added insulation to the top (kingspan on the lid) and I’ll be dropping the temperature when we aren’t about. we’re also drying washing on an clothes airer using the dehumidifier – the dryer isn’t going on unless desparate.
You've got a sex pond and you're worried about using a tumble dryer?
Focus should really be on how users minimise their usage and take advantage of any fixed rates - if available and competitive.
Standing charge - you can't influence it so move on.
Gas usage doesn't have day/night tariffs so...minimise usage.
Electricity - maximise usage of night tariff, minimise usage of day tariff.
All very easy to say but difficult to do.
My start point is an assumption that high unit prices and standing charges are here to stay so I've invested in heavy weight and lined curtains on all windows in addition to existing slatted blinds; improving loft insulation; DEFRA compliant wood burner is next.
I have duvets in different weights so that helps.
If WFH layer up.
After kryters ^^^ don't use a tumble dryer if possible; if you have a garden, line dry; if not, large capacity airer/ dryer.
Only boil as little water as you need when using kettle.
Does house need to be lit up like Christmas tree 🎄?
If your view is...can't afford heavy curtains or wood burner, for example, work out payback period based on modest assumptions.
Turn thermostats down by 2C or more; unoccupied rooms on frost setting only.
Cold feet? Thick socks or slippers.
It's all been said before so I apologise for any/all repetition.
And yet an unopened freezer keeps food frozen for 48hrs.
Sure, but a freezer is minus 20 plus additional energy is required for the phase change.
Free: drive at 70mph instead of 85mph on the motorway.
Cheap(ish): replace all lights with LEDs. Still surprised to see lots of people using halogen downlighters in 2021. Potentially a couple of hundred pounds saved per year for a big house.
Cheap: draught-proofing leaky window frames.
Cheap: heated blankets / throws instead of running central heating.
Cheap: programmable thermostat. The number of people who still believe that it's cost-effective to leave the heating on all the time and just turn it down a little when they go to bed is astonishing. Traditional thermostats overshoot, and on top of that are usually set too high (22C+).
Average: Extra loft insulation.
I've not included solar / heat pumps etc because they're either completely unaffordable to the people genuinely struggling with energy bills, or will be provided by councils if in council property.
Anyone in a listed building is screwed due to the slightly backwards behaviour of local councils. Likewise a listed building usually has thick stone walls so smart meters don't work, and economy 7 no longer available.
Don't forget that if you thought energy was expensive, water prices are equally likely to rocket up due to the additional costs of processing and companies protecting themselves from inflation by... encouraging more inflation.
It never occurred to me how much energy hot tubs burnt. It's not so much the cost, if you can afford it you can afford it, but the environmental impact of such a big energy use on something so peripheral to everyday life
Anyone heard anything from Edf?
One of the big problems here in terms of efficiency as a nation is such variable incomes and wealth. When some households are choosing beans on bread, rather than toast, to reduce bills… while others are considering turning down their OUTDOOR heating/ hottub/ lighting… the target of reducing overall load on the electricity grid to reduce gas demand looks like nonsense. How about all homes getting a set amount of low or no cost electricity to use, and all usage by a household above that costing much more… enforced by regulation? Perhaps have a series of allowances and bands, as for income tax, to make it progressive? Smart meters could help make this transparent to users.
Just got my energy letter in today, its going up by 54%
So no heating for me the majority of the day, i shall just have to go sit in the council offices, they always have their heating on full blast, even in summer.
It will be interesting to see though what the energy companies post for their net profits at the end of the year. I'm expecting record profits yet again.
decided to look a bit deeper into ours now that its so steep. im one of those who got moved to shell when green went bust, and been reading shell were more expensive than others.
however, when i logged into the moneysavingexpert 'cheap energy club' page, it tells me i cant do better. but, theres only 3 results in there (outfox the market and 2 x scottish power tariffs). anyone else having that happen?
if i go to compare the market for a quote, it lists all of the different tariffs from everyone, but still says my shell is about the best i can get.
oh well, at least it means i dont have the faff of switching, im just surprised that shell are showing as the cheapest for me.
The number of people who still believe that it’s cost-effective to leave the heating on all the time and just turn it down a little when they go to bed is astonishing
Neighbour up the road left her heating on whilst she went on a 3wk winter holiday, said she didn't want to come home to a cold house - her son lives in the same road and offered to turn the heating down/up as required, but wasn't allowed to 🙄 the planet is doomed, even more so when I see the absolute over indulgence of some of the ultra wealthy.
Gotta say, there's some eye-watering figures being quoted here. My G&E is going up from ~£2.5k to ~£4k and this is a five-bedroom house. Granted, there's only two of us living here, but I use plenty of electricity and the washing machine (and in winter, tumble dryer) is constantly on. Sex pool aside, what are you guys doing to be pushing seven grand?
however, when i logged into the moneysavingexpert ‘cheap energy club’ page, it tells me i cant do better. but, theres only 3 results in there (outfox the market and 2 x scottish power tariffs). anyone else having that happen?
I expect this is just another symptom of the same problem. Remember, 20-odd providers have just gone bang so your choice is going to be considerably less. Martin has been advising for a few months now not to switch until the dust has settled because any new tariffs are likely worse than what you currently have.
My G&E is going up from ~£2.5k to ~£4k and this is a five-bedroom house.
Your bill is is eye watering enough, we were on £850pa g&e with Avro in a 4 bed house with 4 adults, 3 of whom work from home, now on £1200pa with octopus and due to go up again I guess, but you'll still be more than double our bill!
Tell me about it, it's stupid. I need to do a bit of digging into to what things are actually costing to run.
I need to do a bit of digging into to what things are actually costing to run.
Yes, that's a huge amount of money. Are you mining bitcoin?
What temperature is your thermostat set at? Our house with no hearing on stays around 16.5 degrees regardless of what is like out
Thermostat is set at 17.5 when the heating is on
Bit stunned by some of the figures on here. Our electric is £80-110 a month,including an electric car on 10k miles a year. Four bed detached with family of 4. Heating we are oil, so consider ourselves lucky, to this point…
Bit stunned by some of the figures on here. Our electric is £80-110 a month, including an electric car on 10k miles a year. Four bed detached with family of 4. Heating we are oil, so consider ourselves lucky, to this point…
I'm guessing you haven't looked at the price of heating oil lately....
Granted, there’s only two of us living here, but I use plenty of electricity and the washing machine (and in winter, tumble dryer) is constantly on
Only 2 adults in the house... what can you possibly be doing to have the washing machine on permanently?
IME it's only kids that make that possible.
We just had our monthly DD adjusted to keep us up with the "Expected Increases".
Same as me suddenly going from 5'10" to 8'2"...
Only 2 adults in the house… what can you possibly be doing to have the washing machine on permanently?
IME it’s only kids that make that possible.
It's exactly that. OH's daughter and her partner moved into their first home last year, their washer doesn't work. So OH is in Mum Mode doing their laundry and they generate an astonishing amount of washing, I don't know how they do it. Granted the boyfriend is a mechanic, but still.
Yes, that’s a huge amount of money. Are you mining bitcoin?
As above, white goods, plus a 24/7 dehumidifier in the cellar. That's on top of powering my tech (several computers, Xbox, Big Daft Telly, a houseful of Alexa) and the regular stuff.
But like I say, I need to work it out, it's possible their estimate is miles off. The previous owner apparently "liked it warm" and I think was using a scary amount of power so it depends how far back they're looking at historical billing.
What temperature is your thermostat set at? Our house with no hearing on stays around 16.5 degrees regardless of what is like out
Thermostat is set at 17.5 when the heating is on
Christ, I wouldn't run a server room that cold. Do you have shares in Edinburgh Woollen Mill?
Thermostat is in the low 20s, I forget exactly. 22? But the heating isn't on all the time, right now it's on for four hours a day and that's from winter, I could reduce that now that the weather's improving.
Could be cheaper if you bought them a replacement washing machine.
@cougar 22 wtaf that's beyond warm but then again we are an active family not sat at computers/consoles
Christ, I wouldn’t run a server room that cold. Do you have shares in Edinburgh Woollen Mill?
Thermostat is in the low 20s, I forget exactly. 22? But the heating isn’t on all the time, right now it’s on for four hours a day and that’s from winter, I could reduce that now that the weather’s improving
Depends where it is, ours is also set to 17.5 °C but it's in the hall, coldest part of the house. After a bit of tweaking and sitting the thermostat in different rooms this is where it works best to keep the rest of the house comfortable.
@flicker I have! Bought 900 litres at 62p last week, seen it go over the £1 a litre mark this week.
One litre of oil = 10.25kwh of energy, so, I bought effectively at 6p/kWh, even those buying now are at 12p/kwh. So it’s tipped over the apparent p/kWh of gas this week. I expect heating oil is a triple whammy, crude price, high demand at this time of year and people looking at the price of crude and filling up tanks
@northernremedy now that was good timing 😀
Petrol/diesel is the next one to jump up, our local Shell garage has put diesel up to 172.9p a litre this weekend so I'm expecting the others to follow suit shortly.
however, when i logged into the moneysavingexpert ‘cheap energy club’ page, it tells me i cant do better. but, theres only 3 results in there (outfox the market and 2 x scottish power tariffs). anyone else having that happen?
Yes, I had this when I looked today.
Luckily (?) scottish power have a fixed term tariff for existing customers that is ever so slightly cheaper than the energy cap so I've moved to that, on the basis that the cap will increase again in October.
Regardless, energy costs are still doubling as I'd been on a really good fixed rate before.
After moving to a tariff which was under the price cap last week, but double our old tariff I think I'm going to have to bin the smart meter display, the daily cost is astonishing to see now!
That's Octopus energy rolled out the email of price rises. Flamin' heck, going up about 150 quid a month, it's okay though, we have done something to save you 50 quid a year, erm, thanks....
Never thought I'd see the time when the basics like heating and electricity were becoming luxuries.
That’s Octopus energy rolled out the email of price rises. Flamin’ heck, going up about 150 quid a month, it’s okay though, we have done something to save you 50 quid a year, erm, thanks….
Never thought I’d see the time when the basics like heating and electricity were becoming luxuries.
Wait until the world stops buying Russian gas and oil, it'll really get interesting then.
Uh oh: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60653751
and for @Binners it gets even worse: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60659806
Saw a bit on the news yesterday about the winter cap from October. It's calculated on average costs Feb-July. An average gas price of £3/therm would lead to about 50% increase again, taking the cap for the average household to about £3k per year. Prices yesterday peaked at£8/therm. Those of us that got stuck on the cap are in for a massive bill.
So given my house is not far off being double the average that is quoted for the cap figures, I think I will be loking at around£5-6k per year....ouch. And that is before any more escalation in Ukraine
I expect heating oil is a triple whammy, crude price, high demand at this time of year and people looking at the price of crude and filling up tanks
You did well to get a delivery in!
I'm ringing round my 4 or 5 suppliers and so far only one will take an order due to a massive lack of supply - and even then it's for delivery around the 3rd April and the price is unknown!
I'm really not keen on paying £1.20 for a litre of heating oil!!!
My nearest supplier is just 3 miles away but won't supply me as my last order with them was in 2019 - even though I've been using them for 20 years!
I wouldn't mind so much but there's only about 200L left in the tank. So now I'm hoping for sunny weather as the Solar PV will make the hot water for us and room heat will come from the stove as I've got plenty of logs.
My heating is currently broken. It was 2C last night, and this morning about 10C in the kitchen. And you know what? It really wasn't that bad. We watched TV under blankets, which was nice, and our duvet was thick enough. My wife had another blanket.
When the heating is fixed I'm certainly going to knock the temperature down again, even though I've already done that this winter. So I think that, medial issues or age notwithstanding, you can do a lot to reduce bills if you just re-adjust and it doesn't really need to be a problem.
I have a friend who lives down South and doesn't have his heating on at all. I wouldn't want to try that myself, I think damp would start to be a problem.
My heating is currently broken.
... and that's what I'm going to tell MrsSB
My girls are all away at Uni so I can get away with less heat than usual.
I am giving serious consideration to increasing the amount of solar PV I've got though - I've got lots of space for a ground mounted array.
My girls are all away at Uni so I can get away with less heat than usual.
If I only had two in the house I'd seriously consider strategically placed IR panels. I'd probably try it under my desk or above it, but then when the door's closed it's not even that bad.
@flicker I have! Bought 900 litres at 62p last week, seen it go over the £1 a litre mark this week.
One litre of oil = 10.25kwh of energy, so, I bought effectively at 6p/kWh, even those buying now are at 12p/kwh. So it’s tipped over the apparent p/kWh of gas this week. I expect heating oil is a triple whammy, crude price, high demand at this time of year and people looking at the price of crude and filling up tanks
I felt like i was having my pisser pulled at 62p but reluctantly bought another 1400l to fill my tank after getting down to the last 200l about 4 weeks ago.
luck more than judgement but only just seen the price graph today which is mental. Going to chop more fire wood tonight i expect - make that oil last.
My heating is currently broken. It was 2C last night, and this morning about 10C in the kitchen. And you know what? It really wasn’t that bad. We watched TV under blankets, which was nice, and our duvet was thick enough. My wife had another blanket.
Soon you’ll be able to save even more money by turning the fridge off and leaving the food on the worktops.
This morning, I took 15 minutes of either end of each heating phase and took every phase down by 1°C. It was already down to 18 at most. Fingers crossed for a long hot summer.
I've turned into my grandfather.
Anyone heard anything from Edf?
Not a sausage, but that's to be expected from them, they didn't even notify us when our DD went up in Oct when our deal ended and we fell into the now 'cheap' cap.
We were paying £120 a month on our deal for combined which was about 85% cost and 15% from when they grossly undercharged us for a year and we ended up owing them a few hundred quid. It's £145 now, thankfully we're back in the black with them so I suspect we're looking at £190ish from next month.
DEFRA compliant wood burner is next.
I'm not sure how you think a log burner is going to be cheaper than gas unless it's running a back boiler and central heating.
A bag of decently dry logs is circa £8*. The log burner heats one room well but if that's your only heat source will be fairly useless. You'll be getting through a bag a every day, or two if you're tight, trying to heat the house.
Even a DEFRA approved one isn't exactly a clean way of heating your house either.
*Big bags will save money but then you need to have the space for a half a tonne of logs.
Saw a bit on the news yesterday about the winter cap from October. It’s calculated on average costs Feb-July. An average gas price of £3/therm would lead to about 50% increase again, taking the cap for the average household to about £3k per year. Prices yesterday peaked at£8/therm. Those of us that got stuck on the cap are in for a massive bill.
Martin Lewis made a video a week or maybe two back, warning that based on market forces Feb-July they're expecting another 24% rise in Oct, on top of the 54% now, a 90% rise when compounded, but that was before the invasion. If nothing (good) happens in Ukraine and soon, it will be another 50% rise in Oct, a 131% rise when compounded. You add that the the cost of Petrol/Diesel possibly hitting £2 a litre by the end of the year, and it's going to get very tough.
Someone above said about driving at 70mph on the motorway instead of 85? Sod that, I'm doing 56 behind a lorry, especially if I'm 'on the clock' and I'm praying for a long warm Spring/Summer/Autumn.
You add that the the cost of Petrol/Diesel possibly hitting £2 a litre by the end of the year, and it’s going to get very tough.
I'd be surprised if it hasn't got £2/l by the end of April, I'm guessing over £1.80 by the end of this month.
You’ll be getting through a bag a every day or two of you’re trying to heat the house.
Don't heat the house all day. Heat the room for the evening. Then your maths changes.
But expect the price of firewood to be through the roof next winter as well.
Diesel is already at £1.75 in my town, and for heating/hot water ive turned off my air source heat pump as its ****ing useless, using my log burner instead and getting through 3 bags coal @ £27 week & £30 logs week - I have spms and need a warm house 24hrs/day otherwise my muscles go into spasm and lock up.
They’re an environmental disaster
Couldn't give a flying **** at this point.
DEFRA compliant wood burner is next.
They're an environmental disaster. We've stopped using ours.
Don’t heat the house all day. Heat the room for the evening. Then your maths changes.
Very true, but it still won't be cheaper than doing the same with gas CH and turning the other rads off. (It also doesn't work very well unless you only live in one room of the house either)
"You add that the the cost of Petrol/Diesel possibly hitting £2 a litre by the end of the year, and it’s going to get very tough."
I’d be surprised if it hasn’t got £2/l by the end of April, I’m guessing over £1.80 by the end of this month.
theres someone (or a few someones) who on every environmental and/or driving thread idicates that they think fuel should be 4 or 5 pounds a litre, as that would "cause people to think about their usage" and or price them out of motoring entirely.
I cant remember who it is, and if it is so they can ride their bike on quiet roads or drive their company taycan through central london without traffic jams; but I welcome their contribution to this thread on the above point.
Someone above said about driving at 70mph on the motorway instead of 85? Sod that, I’m doing 56 behind a lorry,
As someone who's dine many caravan holidays you'd be surprised how little time is lost doing this. When you sit in the lorry lane you're doing about 58mph usually (indicated) so that's 20% slower than indicated 70mph. For me to drive to say Heathrow it used to take around 2hrs, but at 56mph that's 2h24. Now, you might think that 24 mins extra is a lot, but when you consider that there are 50 limits in the route now anyway the difference is less because I can't do 70mph all the way anyway. And a two hour trip is a decent drive, an extra 20 mins really isn't that big of a deal. There are very few people for whom it would actually matter. And it saves loads of fuel.
It feels incredibly slow, but it's not really that bad.
So - we've been offered a chance to fix with OVO at £285 a month fixed for 2 years. We currently pay £121 and before working from home, were at around £85. That's just for lights, whitegoods, TVs, the occasional electric car charge and what not. We use 7700kwh in 2020/2021 and 6300kwh in 2019.
Our oil price locally is now 1.28ppl up from 0.42ppl. We use 1500l a year for heating and hot water.
Assuming it stays at similar rates for a while, our energy bills will go from ~£2000/y to £5200/y an almost £300 a month increase. That on top of the almost 30% that food has gone up since 2016 and my new national insurance rise and my increasing council tax bill, means that coupled with water rates, our non- mortgage fixed outgoings will be £9000-£10000 a year. That compared to ~£5000 in 2016/17.
I’m not sure how you think a log burner is going to be cheaper than gas unless it’s running a back boiler and central heating.
A bag of decently dry logs is circa £8*. The log burner heats one room well but if that’s your only heat source will be fairly useless. You’ll be getting through a bag a every day, or two if you’re tight, trying to heat the house.
Even a DEFRA approved one isn’t exactly a clean way of heating your house either.
was any of that direct experience or dramatic hyperbole to get your turnip through a nail. Your maths is similar to runnign a gas boiler off 250gram gas stove cylinders....
Faced with the choice of sitting in the cold next year when theres no gas/oil/electric oir what ever or using my log burner ...... i know what ill be doing.
Equally i was quite glad of it through out the recent storms when the power was out for not an insignificant amount of time locally.
Ive just moved to a small petrol car (mainly because financials didnt make sense on a comparible electric car and they were a one trick pony regarding range) for work due to nursary opening times and traveling to work at 60 is 4 minutes slower than at 70. at 60 i get 65mpg at 70 i get 43-45...... speed limiter is set at 60. can get a long way on a 35 litre tank.
As someone who’s dine many caravan holidays you’d be surprised how little time is lost doing this. When you sit in the lorry lane you’re doing about 58mph usually (indicated) so that’s 20% slower than indicated 70mph. For me to drive to say Heathrow it used to take around 2hrs, but at 56mph that’s 2h24. Now, you might think that 24 mins extra is a lot, but when you consider that there are 50 limits in the route now anyway the difference is less because I can’t do 70mph all the way anyway. And a two hour trip is a decent drive, an extra 20 mins really isn’t that big of a deal. There are very few people for whom it would actually matter. And it saves loads of fuel.
It feels incredibly slow, but it’s not really that bad.
It goes against every fibre of my being as a red blooded wheelsman who's used to 'making progress' but you're right. I used to commute Cardiff to Bridgend every day, I worked out that driving at 80mph saved me 4 mins each way, was stressful (the usual throttle / brake of lane 3 in rush hour). I realised pretty quickly that I never arrived to work at 9, more like 08:40 to 08:50 depending on a million factors, so I was stressing myself out to work a bit extra for free. Doing 56 behind a lorry pretty much doubled the MPG and gave me 4 mins more of listening to my music etc and saved me about £40-£50 a month in fuel that my Wife could waste, sorry invest in scented candles and such.
Things are different now, I mostly only drive for work, but I've got a lovely car with Carplay, heated seats and adaptive cruise. I don't really see the point in rushing anymore.
that my Wife could waste, sorry invest in scented candles and such.
😀
was any of that direct experiance or dramatic hyperbole to get your drive your turnip through a nail.
Direct experience.
A "grab" bag of logs will do me 3 X 2hr fires, the first 40 minutes or so will barely warm the space immediately round the burner.
The next hour will get the room "hot" - but like a frog in a pan you tend not to notice until you go out and come back in - the last 20 minutes is the one too many logs you put on burning off.
Open the living room door whilst it's burning and it's another 20 min or so get to the "that'll do" point. The hall way gets warm. Assuming I'd turned off the CH the temperature in the rest of the house barely moves, to the point is actually cold in the kitchen and bedrooms.
If that fire was heating the house that would need a burn in the morning, probably one at lunchtime ish, then one in the evening assuming I'd like to keep the house at somewhere in double digits.
The back burner meant I needed about 4-5 hours of burn a day to keep the house above 15, the living room was unbearably warm by the time the kitchen was at that sort of temperature. It needed coal and charcoal to keep it ticking over rather than actively burning with logs.
The back burner went to be (re)replaced with gas CH. (fortunately the previous occupants held left everything in place for gas when they put in the pretty wood burner)
I worked out that driving at 80mph saved me 4 mins each way, was stressful
A good point. Sitting in with the lorries (not too close obviously) is extremely relaxing, Because most of the lorries are chugging along at the same speed and you really have to do very little if you're not passing slower vehicles all the time.