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not in the slightest surprising. Any news on the 'help' (aka long term loans to the providers) from the government?
Well that's better than expected* - Martin Lewis was reckoning it being far closer to 70% increase in April.
* Still terrible for our wallets tho!
What does that mean for actual unit prices for gas/elec?
And as is always the case in the UK, the poorest will once again be hit hardest.
Those on pre-payment meters will face the biggest price increases.
The price cap is a cap on a unit of gas and electricity, with standing charges taken into account. It is not a cap on customers’ overall energy bills, which will still rise or fall in line with their energy consumption. From 1 April the equivalent per unit level of the price cap to the nearest pence for a typical customer paying by direct debit will be 28p per kWh for electricity customers and 7p per kWh for gas customers
I think it’s time to finally fit a solar/battery system.
Not surprised either. We came off of our fixed price energy tariff in September-ish last year when the crisis hit, so we've been on SVR since then. Just had a 6 month bill and it's pretty eye watering, more than double what we paid in the previous 6 months.
I don't understand the approach to just keep creating money and loaning it to every man and his dog (energy suppliers, first time buyers, banks). Short term-ism at it's finest, typical politicians.
This is only part one as well. Will rise again before next winter.
What does that mean for actual unit prices for gas/elec?
That unit prices have doubled in 6 months.
My reckoning is my electric will go to 30p/kWh and my gas to 7.5p/kWh.
At that price it is still cheaper than some of the 2yr deals I saw last year which were 40p and 10p per kWh.
Maybe the autumn increase will make my standard variable tariff greater than last year's 2 year 'deals' 🤔
Will they also be increasing the standign charge to match? I annoys me that the "standing charge", nominally the cost of actually supplyign the gas/electricity, goes up and down with wholesale prices when the cost of running the infrastrcuture shouldnt really change.
Those rates are double what I was paying on my last fixed price tariff, so there goes the saving I've just made by re-fixing the mortgage!
EDIT: and having just checked USwitch, the capped Standard Variable Rate from April at those rates sated above, is still cheaper than taking out a new fixed rate deal... So I guess we all just hsve to sit on our hands and the consumer energy market will grind to a halt, making all thise call centres housing sales teams redundant...
Martin Lewis was reckoning it being far closer to 70% increase in April.
Was that the overall increase? As above, my bill almost doubled as a result of being on SVR since September. Some of that will be coming off the fixed rate, but a chunk of it was the rises that I think came into effect back then.
If the cap has gone up by 50% then we could easily be at 100% increase since September last year.
I’m fully aware btw that the option I have to go solar isn’t possible to many due to cost.
It is becoming a no-brainer at current prices though if you can do it.
It is becoming a no-brainer at current prices though if you can do it.
Excuse the probable dumbness of this question, but how does this all affect those lucky enough to already have solar? We have a 4kw array, installed by the previous owners, and sell back to an energy provider (not the same one we buy our electricity from).
We have a 4kw array, installed by the previous owners, and sell back to an energy provider (not the same one we buy our electricity from).
Put your prices up!
Excuse the probable dumbness of this question, but how does this all affect those lucky enough to already have solar? We have a 4kw array, installed by the previous owners, and sell back to an energy provider (not the same one we buy our electricity from).
Time to the breakeven point reduces, that's all, the price per kWh is still doubling along with everyone else.
Meanwhile Shell announce record profits and dividends
Next review is October; forecast is another chunky increase - higher than one just announced.
Support package announced by sunak is better than nothing but nowhere near enough.
Grant/discount to offset increases is nothing other than deferred payment and doesn't start until October.
Appears to be predicated on energy prices falling over a 5 year term - and there's no certainty of that.
£150 mill for councils to support low income families sounds like a lot but won't go far.
sunak claiming his package is both generous and comprehensive is laughable
Meanwhile Shell announce record profits and dividends
Shell's PR and CSR department will be having kittens right now as this is the absolute worst time for them to be slapping themselves on their back.
I would argue that the accelerated march of investors out of unethical portfolios is likely to increase - I can see Labour grab hold of the windfall tax piece and throttle it for all its worth - any organisation standing to make profits off the back of these indirect causes will be gold.
Personally speaking, I would feel really uncomfortable to hold a portfolio where there isn't some form of balance ethically; I suspect that we'll see much more of this from Labour.
(energy suppliers, first time buyers, banks)
First time buyers shouldnt really be on that list. They are just a handy conduit to those who actually benefit from those generous efforts to push prices up.
My fixed price deal ran out recently, putting my bills up by 50%, a further 54% in April will see them having increased by 131% since Christmas. And more to come in October. Crikey!
PS - assuming my maths is right!
“ Meanwhile Shell announce record profits and dividends”
… on which they will pay record corporation tax and shareholders will pay record dividend tax.
Also worth mentioning that when Shell dived to a $20b loss and implemented a huge headcount reduction programme in 2019/20 that no-one was calling for a bailout.
Might it be cheaper to stop exporting and start charging a home battery?
...I'm buying shares in Damart! 😬
Put your prices up!
They're fixed by the Feed-In-Tariff though, right? Is that likely to go up (I know it goes up by RPI in April)?
Also worth mentioning that when Shell dived to a $20b loss and implemented a huge headcount reduction programme in 2019/20 that no-one was calling for a bailout.
They will however have got all the tax relief including repayments so not all bad for them.
Interest rates increasing 0.25% to 0.5%; BoE vote was 5 - 4 in favour.
The 4 who voted against actually wanted a larger increase.
Add into the mix a forecast that inflation will peak at 7.25% in April.
Any more good news?
It could be worse we could have renationalised energy and given out free internet access, how terrible would have that been?
… on which they will pay record corporation tax
I'll believe it when I see it, and tbh the amount of Corporation Tax paid by Shell in the UK could be a pretty trifling amount and still set a record. I've not seen more recent figures but they paid none at all in 2018 and 2019.
Can somene explaine the rationale of why putting up interest rates is supposed to help the issue with paying increased energy prices?? I've read and watched on the news that they said it would stop people spending and encourage saving - not sure how this logic works when the price of everything goes/is going through the roof? Is this a scheme that frankly is out of touch with how most people actually live?
It's all very worrying for the vulnerable and those on low income. Hope the Government look after those groups.
What does that mean for actual unit prices for gas/elec?
I think it depends on how your Energy Co. cut it between standing charge and unit cost, but basically if you're not in 'deal' your average annual cost will rise 54%
The thing is, it's is the Spring/Summer rate, when usage is way down, so depending how your supplier it might not matter too much just now. My Gas usage drops about 60% at Spring time and Elec about 30%, but I don't know if there's much to stop EDF (in my case) raising the standing charge massively rather than the unit charge.
For us at home, we came out of our 'deal' in Oct, we were paying £95 a month, then £120, now £144, that could become £220 in April and another rise like that in Oct... and it's £341, we're a family of 4 in a typical 3 bed semi.
I'm looking into Heat Pumps.
i raised my DD (with Bulb) this morning from £180 to £280 in anticipation of what will happen. I've still got a dual rate meter (legacy before i did the hosue up) - was debating changing it, but not sure it's worth it (we're gas heating) and i work at home with limited elecy use during the day.
edit to add - bulb recommended i make it £330!!
Hope the Government look after those groups.
Jesus how naive?? Open your eyes FFS.
Can someone explain the rationale of why putting up interest rates is supposed to help the issue with paying increased energy prices?? I’ve read and watched on the news that they said it would stop people spending and encourage saving – not sure how this logic works when the price of everything goes/is going through the roof? Is this a scheme that frankly is out of touch with how most people actually live?
It doesn't, but they try to make it sound like it's a good thing. It reduces demand for non-essential goods, and in turn prices fall, which reduces the inflation indicators, that's not the same as making things easier to buy.
From what I've read the BOE were holding off on rate decision, but not to increase them if energy costs went up, but to hold them to avoid squeezing us too much.
It’s all very worrying for the vulnerable and those on low income. Hope the Government look after those groups.
The rates are highest if you're on a pre-payment meter, so the poorest will be hit hardest by price increases. It's a poverty premium placed on those at the bottom of the pile by our wonderful system.
It's bloody expensive to be poor in the UK. Those struggling most will pay a lot more per unit of power than those of us lucky enough to be paying monthly direct debits
How this is justifiable in any sane world is completely beyond me
And seeing as this is the government that withdrew the 20 quid uplift in UC when they knew this was in the pipeline, I think its safe to assume they will be doing absolutely nothing to help these people
agree wht everyone on pre-pay - always been fortunate to not be in this position - personally think it's scandalous that the rates can be allowed to be higher - it's an essential service not a luxury..
I’ll believe it when I see it, and tbh the amount of Corporation Tax paid by Shell in the UK could be a pretty trifling amount and still set a record. I’ve not seen more recent figures but they paid none at all in 2018 and 2019.
It was saying on Radio 4 this morning that Shell is in the process of moving all its corporate headquarters to London as post-Brexit Tax Haven UK will offer them the lowest tax burden in the developed world
Lads, lads, relax. We'll just take it out of the 360million a week brexit bonus, sorted
It was saying on Radio 4 this morning that Shell is in the process of moving all its corporate headquarters to London as post-Brexit Tax Haven UK will offer them the lowest tax burden in the developed world
At the rate we're going we wont be part of the developed world much longer
The quote above / Radio 4 commentary is probably untrue.
The corporation tax next year is 25% for profits on UK subsidiaries - in Ireland it’s 12.5%
Most of the driver behind Shell moving to the UK was about removal of dual share classes / listings and a move to the London market where trading volumes are higher.
Shell will likely pay more tax in the Uk than if they had retained a dual Dutch / uk listing.
I’d also disagree that “ we wont be part of the developed world much longer” on the basis that the economy has now returned to pre-covid size.
The Uk is now attracting record inward investment and has a disproportionate share of tech unicorns that will ultimately drive further economic growth. We actually have more tech unicorns than France and Germany combined.
wtf is tech unicorn?
edit, that should be in the business bullshiv thread...
The rates are highest if you’re on a pre-payment meter
At the moment they're capped at the same rate as everyone else, of course that's not always the case.
We actually have more tech unicorns than France and Germany combined.
Smashing; Germany has a modern, efficient, invested-in economy and national infrastructure, not to mention a more grown-up and consensual approach to politics and industrial relations, we've got unicorns, FPTP and a class (from the left)/culture (from the right) war.
The % rate of Corporation Tax only matters if you pay any.
Smashing; Germany has a modern, efficient, invested-in economy and national infrastructure, not to mention a more grown-up and consensual approach to politics and industrial relations, we’ve got unicorns, FPTP and a class (from the left)/culture (from the right) war.
There was an interesting thread on twitter yesterday about some comparisons between the UK and Germany in how economic investment pays off, and how the UK basically hasn't done any;
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1487507686627364864
The UK government, after what feels like a decade of chatting about it, cancelled a new underground central railway station in Bradford -- a city about the size of Leipzig. "Too expensive" appaz.
Let's be honest, if the UK government had tried to complete this project, it would be late, 3x over budget and with some critical errors meaning it wasn't fit for purpose so nobody used it. Might as well cut out the middle man and not bother building it.
It's when those energy price rises filter into Every. Single.Thing you buy, that's the thing being overlooked in the news reports
One of my mates created and built up a successful UK tech company. He’s moving to Germany this summer to start a new one. Sitting out the next decade in another European country is a wise option if you have the means and skills to do so. Tax rates are only a tiny part of the business environment. And the domestic/family environment. Nominal low tax rates for business can sit side by side with lots of impediments to running a business, and falling quality of life for business people, their staff, and their families.
Unfortunately for me I chose soup over a Sandwich this lunchtime and therefore have used up this years £40 energy credit already.
If only that was actually something to laugh it.
wtf is tech unicorn?
Privately held business allegedly worth over 1 billion US dollars. Its mostly based on previous funding rounds to calculate and hence may or may not be worth the paper it is written on.
Hope the Government look after those groups.
ROFLOL
Having just said that, looks like I'll get two council tax rebates of £150 each in April!
Mainly due to the randomness of council tax banding...
With house price rises seen as a good thing (for homeowners) - we are witnessing a recalibration of inflation (supply shocks) in the economy. There always has to be inflation in some part of the economy - it's been debatably good for the Tory voters that house prices (not part of CPI) have seen the brunt of this to the benefit of the wealth of middle-classes.
Things are swinging in other direction as consumables now take the hit.
This will not go down well with Tory voters one bit. Good.
We could long term see a shift in House Prices not blasting upwards.
Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards? So that's not a reduction, that's a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.
Hope the Government look after those groups.
Doesn't seem likely. Sunak is no doubt being handicapped by Johnson, can't have his biggest rival looking too good right now, but it really isn't going to go that way.
The average family in the UK is going to have to face the following increased annual costs:
£720 NI. (based on 2 people working on average UK income)
£75 Council Tax.
£390 Food.
£300 Vehicle Fuel.
£693 Gas/Electric
£800 increased mortgage payments.
£350 isn't going to make much of a dent, in that!
Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in instalments from 2023 onwards? So that’s not a reduction, that’s a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.
Yeah, it was supposed to take the form of loans directly to Energy Suppliers, who in return would reduce bills, but I guess either it didn't sound as good, or they couldn't them to actually do it.
I think they're gambling on either the Russian situation improving, or at least some of the non-gas powered power stations in the UK that are currently down, coming back...
Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards?
tbf I watched Sunak's speech and that was pretty clear.
reluctant - that was pointed out on pg1 as soon as sunak said it.
I've only read the reports and it was only the Guardian that made it clear. How many others are not going to realise and think that they're being given 'free' money?
I’d rather not get the rebate, is that an option?
Rachel Reeves has had a strong coffee today and sounds up for this, as it's an open goal
The "discount" needs to be outed as fake news
I think they’re gambling on either the Russian situation improving, or at least some of the non-gas powered power stations in the UK that are currently down
You've got to love the way this lot do 'policy'
My sister said recently their heating costs went from £90 a month to £198...
Ouch.
It's quite interesting what people think of as acceptable heating, for me it's enough to stave off damp and prevent ice on the inside of the windows.
Others accustomed to strolling around in thier Pjs at sub tropical temps are in for a sharp shock.
Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards? So that’s not a reduction, that’s a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.
Yes, and then I posted on Twitter asking for folk to list the frauds that were possible and what do they estimate the likely write-off will be by 2027.
It’s quite interesting what people think of as acceptable heating, for me it’s enough to stave off damp and prevent ice on the inside of the windows.
Others accustomed to strolling around in their Pjs at sub tropical temps are in for a sharp shock.
My wife considers anything between 22 & 30 degrees indoors to be comfortable 🙁
So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?
Our £81/month DD hasn't changed in years, am expecting a letter upping it any day...
Not yet but my suppliers went bump on the same day whilst switching from one to the other, ffs.
So far I've had no contact from shell about the gas other than a single email from them back in September/October, haven't paid them a penny yet either. Electricity was switched to octopus who have been very good, DD setup plenty of contact and awaiting my credit to be transferred over.
I keep a close eye on usage and readings and drop them into a spreadsheet every so often so I know exactly what I'm using and costs so it won't be a surprise when shell finally sort themselves out.
If last year's payments were about right then double it and add a bit more for good measure especially if you were locked in on a good tariff.
So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?
yes, our previous supplier (pure planet) went bust in october and we were transferred over to shell, they've just got round to giving us a new DD of £277 per month for gas & elec up from £197 per month. The £197 with PP was their SVR.
We have reduced our consumption this winter by about 10% though, so that new dd reflects that reduction in usage I think.
Just waiting on contracts for solar panels and battery to be fitted in June, won't help the initial price hike but will for the later ones
Octopus make it easy to pull out your previous energy usage so looked at last years.
Current fixed rate ends in July, if we'll go to capped rates it's near enough a doubling of energy bills. £140 extra per month.
Think this will be the year I rip up the downstairs floor and insulate it properly. 1930s semi with a suspended floor and it feels cold all winter, suspect loads of heat just goes into the void below.
grahamt1980
Full Member
Just waiting on contracts for solar panels and battery to be fitted in June, won’t help the initial price hike but will for the later ones
Sorry to be uncouth but may I ask how big the install is and roughly what you're paying?
Fairly big install. 8.3kW panels and a single tesla battery for now.
Works out about £23k. Discussing if to reduce the size and if the battery is worth it.
Not sure on payback times but as we work from home the majority of the time i suspect that it shouldn't be too long given current electric prices
The current cap for electricity is roughly 21p per kwh and 25p a day standing charge. I still can't find what the actual price cap will be changed to as all the figures give the increase for an average bill which hardly anyone pays (most will be over or under).
Why would the wholesale price of gas affect the daily standing charge?
So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?
Our £81/month DD hasn’t changed in years, am expecting a letter upping it any day…
Changes don't come into effect until April.
It's going to be a difficult job, or at least justifying it for Energy suppliers. Prices go up, but usage falls rapidly. Do they hammer customers in April, in readiness for another massive hike in Oct, or let it sit, hoping for a reduction in wholesale prices in the next 6 months?
I looked back on my last 6 months smart meter reading and we're using about £120 a month on average through the winter, and paying £140, so we're paying too much really. Summer we're down to about £80 a month so I think our monthly should 'only' rise to £170 a month. It's a big number, but we won't miss £30 a month... it's the the £90 rise in October I'm worried about.
Fairly big install. 8.3kW panels and a single tesla battery for now.
Works out about £23k. Discussing if to reduce the size and if the battery is worth it.
Not sure on payback times but as we work from home the majority of the time i suspect that it shouldn’t be too long given current electric prices
I'm going to be very surprised if you ever have return on that investment.
Generally you'd want an investment to provide you with a return on a 10 year basis, so in simple terms you'd have to reduce your bills by £2,300 pounds per year
So lets say you'd be expecting a 50% reduction in usage, you'd have to be spending £4,600 a year on electric (£383 per month)
Changes don’t come into effect until April.
Ah forgot about that. I guess they'll still send out letters early to forewarn people....
So lets say you’d be expecting a 50% reduction in usage
With a big battery you could get close to 100% as you'll have free leccy 24/7.