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This might get quite long, so apologies in advance.
I move to my current job in December. I wanted a role with more autonomy.
After a couple of months I decided it wasn't for me. There's actually less autonomy and I don't get on with my boss. My performance really suffered and I hold my hands up - I wasn't doing my job as well as I need to.
At the end of my 3 month probation we met and she told me my performance wasn't up to scratch and I had 2 weeks to prove I could cut it. Fair cop. I put in 110% effort and really tried to turn things around. At the same time I was convinced my long term future didn't lie at this company and I was worried about imminent unemployment. I spoke to a couple of people and tried to line up interviews.
The stress was affecting my health. My appetite dwindled yet I had to visit the toilet several times a day.
I survived my initial 2 weeks and she extended my probation for a month. She said she appreciated the effort I was putting in. At the same time I managed to attend a first interview and have been invited back for a second.
Yesterday I had to "go to the dentist" and had an interview which went reasonably well - no idea if I'll get it or not.
She called me in this morning to ask if I was attending interviews. I said I'd been somewhere for a chat, and that while I'm completely committed here, and she's seen this effort, I was worried about my job security. I'd said I was initially worried she could have exercised her right to get rid of me with a week's notice, and that even now I wasn't sure whether she intended to keep me or not.
Of course, this puts her in a difficult position. If I'm going to leave I could go in a week, although I offered to give her a month. I said my intention was to stay here although I couldn't afford to stop looking unless I got the same assurance from her. I offered to sign an agreement to give 1 months notice and she mentioned she'd rather it was 2.
We're meeting tomorrow to discuss our intentions.
It looks like I have 2 options. Either I sign an agreement and agree to stop looking (I still don't want to work here long term), or I tell her I'm looking to leave, and we fix a date 2 months in the future.
What should I do? I don't have a job lined up but am waiting for a second interview that's reasonably promising.
Apologies for rambling.
Not quite sure what kind of agreement they could ask you to sign. Obviously, they can ask you not to go for interviews during work time! Other than that, isn't there some rule that prevents employers stopping you looking elsewhere for work? I'm sure there is...
It sounds like your boss wants her cake and to eat it; they don't want you to feel secure by giving you a proper contract now but they also don't want the risk you might decide to leave them. That's not a good sign for working there long time.
Rachel
I offered to sign an agreement to give 1 months notice
Why would you do that? Notice period is, in most cases, a two way thing.
If your boss wants to keep you , she should offer you a proper contract with security. If not, she should expect you to be looking for other jobs.
[i]Why would you do that?[/i]
I don't want to force her hand and make her get rid of me with the 1 week's notice my probation period dictates, but I also don't want to tell her I'll stop looking, because I want to go.
It's a small firm - 12 people - and my boss is the owner which makes the politics even more intense.
but, irrespective of what you sign, it does sound like she could still get rid of you with one weeks notice..
What is your line of work?
Yesterday I had to "go to the dentist" and had an interview which went reasonably well - no idea if I'll get it or not.
😕
Why not just take a day's leave?
Why did you tell her you were at an interview?
I'm in advertising. We're very busy at the moment so they couldn't cope with the workload if I were to leave. Also, when people leave you tend to need a handover period to bring someone up to speed on your projects.
Additionally, it would look bad to our clients if I left, having been here a relatively short time. She'd also be reluctant to let me kick off new projects if she thought I was going to leave in the short term.
She needs me to be here, and to be able to trust me.
I need to not be sacked in the short term, but still to have the ability to look for a new job.
[i]Why not just take a day's leave?[/i]
She has to sign off leave and can refuse. If I asked for a day off and she declined then I 'd have to call in sick which looks even worse than a transparent lie about why I'll not be in on Wednesday morning.
[i]Why did you tell her you were at an interview?[/i][i]
She asked me directly and I didn't want to lie. Perhaps I'm wet behind the ears. I'll still need a reference from her if I leave.
Sounds like they can't afford to lose you.they couldn't cope with the workload if I were to leave
when people leave you tend to need a handover period
So she needs you to hang around but wants you to think she can sack you within a week. This does not add up.
You will be better off without the obvious emotional blackmail that is going on here.
I think you are in a better bargaining position than you think.
Play the game keep some vital client info under you hat until you are sure of an exit that way if she threatens you you have cards to play. You may need to tough this it out for while.
She needs me to be here, and to be able to trust me.
Well that is clearly rubbish as, if it was the case, she would not have you on probation.
If I am wrong, then and she does need you, get her to honour it with a proper contract.
something like
'you've pretty much given me the impression that you're not happy with my performance and that you don't see a future for me here, so I was looking at my exit route for the benefit of all - now If I've misread that then I'm really sorry, but I can't help but try and protect myself unless you're willing to show me that I am actually wanted rather than being held on probation with the threat of being laid off at a weeks notice'
[i]I think you are in a better bargaining position than you think.[/i]
I suppose this is the nub. I don't want to be here any longer than I have to be. I want to be allowed to look for a new job, but to agree to let this happen on the best possible terms.
I have a strong position in that although she can get rid of me in 1 week, I can do the same putting them in a bad position. I don't really want to have to do this though - I don't want to get a bad name, or for her to have cause to give me a bad reference.
Ideally, I need to agree to something that lets me look for a new job, but that protects me in the short term. She wants to put a time limit on it so she can recruit to replace me. I think this is fair really.
Additionally, I'm getting married on 9th August and am away for 2 weeks from 16th - 30th Aug. We can get by on my wife's wage alone and have some savings, so I'm almost tempted to agree to leave as I get married, try to line something up before then or just look in earnest once I'm back from my honeymoon.
We can get by on my wife's wage alone
Why are you worrying then!
Stick with the job till August then hand your 1 weeks notice in just before you go off on honeymoon!
[i]I put in 110%[/i]
I'd sack you just for saying that.
That's a tough situation. I think you did the right thing by not lying for what that's worth. If your boss did know and you lied then she might easily have been able to dismiss you immediately for gross missconduct.
When things seem complicated in this kind of situation it's usually best to try and boil it down to the simplest terms.
From what you've said this sounds like you are going to leave, you're going to do that as quickly as possible, your current employer is being very reasonable and the only reason you've not handed in your notice now is due to the fear of not knowing when the next paycheck is going to land.
So look at it like this.
It's over. You know that and your boss knows that. The best outcome is that you both agree a leave date that gives you more than one week of notice/pay.
If you give assurances that you're not looking for a new role (even if that were possible in some contractual way which it's not) you're just going to be lying and the next time you need to take time away for an interview that lie will unravell (because either you've got a lousy poker face or you are just plain honest and I suspect it's the latter and applaud you for that).
You may find the worst outcome is the one that happens which is you get given notice or asked to resign or else they will force your hand.
Is that such a bad thing? It's going to happen anyway if you stay. What financially can you do to manage that as an outcome; how long can you go without a pay check? Whatever you think it is, I guarantee you there are ways to extend that deadline.
Reaching mutually agreeable terms to leave that work as best they can for you as for your employer is the best way to work this and you'll only do that by asking your boss what she wants and by telling her what you want.
You never know, if you explain why you're not happy, you may find you actually get the changes you really want. Small businesses can't really afford screw ups on hiring people so they will either always do what they can to fix the situation or else they will just exit the individual as quickly as possible. Bigger companies tend to let things fester a while before they address the situation because hey, who needs the agro!
best of luck
is your boss fit? Need to know this kind of information.
What should you do?
Tell her what she wants to hear then do what you think is best for you and your family.
geetee1972 - that's probably the best summary of the situation and you're right that looking at it like that makes it clearer.
I really appreciate all of the advice.
[i]is your boss fit? Need to know this kind of information.[/i]
Nope, not at all.
I'm thinking of handing my notice in with 2 months notice and looking for a new job to start from when I get back from my honeymoon.
My only advice.. don't hand in your notice before your honeymoon - you don't want to have the additional stress of not having a job and trying to look for a new one while being stressed from getting married and organising last minute wedding things along with the honeymoon.
A honeymoon is for you to relax.. not for you to be trying to find jobs?
Agree with the 1 months notice and tell her you'll be looking for other jobs as that job isn't for you? Honesty is the best policy!
EDIT: Unless of course, you can guarantee a new job before you go on your wedding/honeymoon leave.
IMHO lie / do what is best for you
It is what the company will do
she might easily have been able to dismiss you immediately for gross missconduct.
Really? simple matter your leaving , they know it what is there to do?
References are only any use if the person giving them is held in any kind of regard
Ok, discussed with my family
I've decided I need to leave. The stress of staying is (I guess) worse than the stress of looking for a job at my leisure .
Being kind and giving 2 months notice would make it more difficult for me to get a job in the short term.
I'm going to offer to work 6 weeks with the acceptance I'm looking for a job in that time.
I know it's right but handing in my notice with no job to go to feels very unnatural!
don't quite get it - staffing the company is there problem after all - perhaps you are being (admirably) to 'gentlemanly'?.
Stay there as long as you need to - they don't own you and can't interrogate you! I'm not suggesting you lie - but your intentions and plans are 100% your own private business - don't let them put you in a corner - and have no qualms about your response or it's veracity if they do.
give your notice when it suits you - I don't see why your making it easier for them and offering 6 weeks your side against 1 on their side.. If they need your loyalty to turn a profit - they should take care of you to some degree?
Just agree with everythign they say/demand -smile and hand in your resignation when your sorted. It's exactly what they are doing to you! Good luck though
bikemonkey - Member
After a couple of months I decided it wasn't for me.
You have tried so time to go because in the long-run you will only suffer more or be fired which makes things worst for you.
Call an Employment solicitor for the correct advice.
Speak to them, and get in touch with an recognised union
for support as your Boss seems to make it up as they go along.
Must say never heard of asking someone to sign a contract that they cannot look for work
they're making zero commitment to you, and trust me, if you didn't fit any more they'd drop you in less than a heart beat. seriously - 'probation'? you're either good enough or not, after the initial bedding in period. at the point at which they heard you were going for interviews, they should have made the decision to keep you, or not. sign whatever they put in front of you. none of it is enforceable. find another job, tell them to bill you when you find one. honestly, i'm not a reactionary type, but they're stringing you along to suit themselves, and you really need to recognise that.
this is fear based management. play along, then screw them over, they deserve it by the sounds of it.
hope the wedding goes well, and enjoy it all. best of luck.
I'm going to offer to work 6 weeks with the acceptance I'm looking for a job in that time.
They can't stop you looking for work no matter what.
Just give whatever notice period you are contracted to give, and walk away when it's done.
There is nothing they can do to stop you looking for work wether you are in your notice period, on probation, or on a permanent contract.
(Although they could sack you for lying about the dentist and going for an interview I suppose)
Do whatever is best for you and your dependants and their long term health, wealth and happiness.
Late edit,
If she was half way decent, she will try to make things better for you so she doesn't loose you. If she's a cow (which I suspect she is) she will try to force you to stay whilst she lines up your replacement so the business is affected less when she gives you the bullet.
Your strategy should depend upon how she approaches your imminent meeting with her.
What happens if you give six weeks' notice and then get a job which requires you to start sooner?
Notice periods should always be symmetrical - I signed a contract where they weren't and regretted it!
I'm going to offer to work 6 weeks with the acceptance I'm looking for a job in that time.
They would never reciprocate this so why give what you do not have to.
Damned right !Notice periods should always be symmetrical - I signed a contract where they weren't and regretted it!
Don't sign a unilateral agreement to work for 6 weeks; sign a contract amendment that requires 6 weeks notice (edit: [b][u]IF[/u][/b] that's what you want). Don't be "nice" - be reasonable and expect the same in return
What happens if you give six weeks' notice and then get a job which requires you to start sooner?
That's very unlikely. I don't know anyone who was offered a permanent position in a professional role who lost that offer because they couldn't start soon enough.
If the company wants you they will wait.
You've had lots of sensible advice so I'll just rub it in.
Your 6 weeks "offer" is just silly. You have a contract, it (plus the law) tells you what your rights and responsibilities are. If the employer wants more from you, suggest they offer you a different contract which outlines what they actually want and expect from you. One week's notice is not reasonable for any sort of professional position IMO, but they wrote the contract.