Got called to an emergency Teams meeting yesterday to be told that my employer has gone into administration. Not entirely unexpected, but sad none the less as I worked with a great group of people. Redundant effective immediately.
I'm fortunate to have something else lined up, but wondering what happens immediately, and timescales? All I know is the administrator is posting a pack of info to my home address. No further access to work servers or email so no other route of contact.
I've looked at the .gov info so know I need a CN(?) code to apply for redundancy payments etc. Has anyone else been in a similar sitiuation and can offer advice? Employer had circa 400 employees so a reasonable size business. Thanks.
If you have been with them over 2 years you have a lot more rights than a newbie - I was made redundant at 23 months 🙁
Keep in touch with the people doing stuff and keep chasing for details - it is the crying child that gets fed.
Push with your suggestions, if any, whenever you can. If you are a known name (but not troublemaker) then you are likely to get better service than just one in a crowd of 400
Good luck with the new opportunity
Make sure you've removed anything that is yours from your employers location.
Happened to me about 20 years ago. I think I got some owed wages on normal pay day. You'll get a letter at some point from the administrators which will say you're at the bottom of the list for money so you may or may not get something in 2 years time. If you've been there more than 2 years you'll get some redundancy money from the government in 6 months or so then in 2 years time when administration is over you'll get a cheque for £1.25 as final payment for the wages they owe you.
The job centre won't believe that companies go bust so will take ages (months) to start paying you dole money by which time you'll hopefully have found a new job.
I forgot the joys of a dole office
Proof that you are trying to find work.
Me - Here are 68 emails
Her - Please can you write down the name and address of the company, the name and role of the person you contacted, a description of the role you have applied for and a summary of what you have done.
Me - 68 times? Really? I hope you have a big form
Her - No, here are 68 copies of the form, go over there and fill them in and then join the queue again to bring them to me
Work readiness interview
Him - What do you do, what job are you looking for and what are your salary expectations
Me - I am a technical pre-sales consultant and business analyst. I am looking for a similar role and will consider anything over £100,000
Him - What about part time counter work at B&Q?
Interview assistance
Her - Good to hear you have an interview, we will assist in every way including paying for travel to the interview. Who is it with, what is the role and where is the interview
Me - It is a business consultant role covering EMEA and the interview is in Paris next Wednesday
Her - Where is EMEA, near London, and which is the best bus route for Paris?
Me - EMEA is a region covering Europe, Middle East and Africa and Paris is in France so I will need to fly there.
Her - If you won't tell me where the job is going to be then I can't help you and I certainly won't pay for your holiday in France. Have you reconsidered the role at B&Q?
New job sorted, waiting for the admin to come through.....go for a bike ride?
I forgot the joys of a dole office
When I got made redundant back in 2018, I got a big payoff and planned to take 6 months off before going back to work, but wanted to register as unemployed to make sure NI payments got taken care of.
One trip to the dole office was more than enough. A truly grim and miserable experience. It felt more like prison, with security officers accompanying you as you moved around the office, then having to talk to staff who were either completely useless or completely broken by the job.
Make sure you’ve removed anything
that is yours fromof any value that isn't bolted to the floor from your employers location.
FIFY
Oh yes - forgot about the helpful job suggestions from the dole office. You're a molecular biologist with 2 years experience we think you should apply to be a logistics officer with the RAF - it's 3x your last salary. It was the only job on their system that wasn't minimum wage which I was in no way qualified for but got to apply to keep getting your money (which you are refusing to pay me as you think companies don't go bust). Closely followed by having my IT skills assessed by someone who only used 1 finger to type and had to hunt the key for every letter. And when they ask for a copy of your CV to offer advice they failed to notice I'd given them 2 copies of page 1.
While the dole office is a grim place the staff I dealt with were fine so it's not always bad. I worked for a high street retailer which after 2 administrations ( I survived ) went into liquidation and we were the last out of the door as IT staff.
When I went to the dole office, I explained the situation, showed them the list of jobs I'd applied for on a laptop and all was well. Didn't have to fill in any forms.
It was 7 years ago though.
WCAs description of the dole office could have been me many years ago. They are simply not geared up (or remotely clever enough) to deal with professional people. When I explained that I would be opting to start a Masters rather than working at Ladbrokes, the woman looked at me and said "you can't keep drifting you know"...
I will add only this, as I do to every redundancy thread - my first call when I got it in '17 was for advice to a mate who leads an IT department, as they wanted me off prem there and then, and I didn't know if I should just go. He gave lots of good advice, butbI will always remember the last thing he said - he's had to let a few people go in his time, but every single person he ever made redundant ended up better off. Was true for me, hope it is for you too. All the best. 🙂
You'll want to make a claim with the insolvency service. Alongside redundancy you can also claim for lack of notice period, unpaid wages and any untaken holidays. If you have something else lined up, be aware that if you start that before your notice period would have been up you cannot claim the lack of notice (I think that's how it is).
I found the claim from the insolvency service surprisingly efficient back in 2018
They are simply not geared up (or remotely clever enough) to deal with professional people.
They are not, and nor is the system. I utterly broke them during one of the financial crashes when I was laid off. I took a 2 day consultancy gig so only 15 hours so less than the 17 hours they count as full time so they could not chuck me off JSA. But in those 2 days I earned more than a months worth of dole. It took them a lot of supervisors supervisors supervisoring to work out what happens in that case.
When I got made redundant back in 2018, I got a big payoff and planned to take 6 months off before going back to work, but wanted to register as unemployed to make sure NI payments got taken care of.
One trip to the dole office was more than enough. A truly grim and miserable experience. It felt more like prison, with security officers accompanying you as you moved around the office, then having to talk to staff who were either completely useless or completely broken by the job.
Similar situation, in 2009, but, the rest was not my experience.
They chap took one look at my P45, then he took it over to the Manager (as I found out later) and they had a conversation. They were always really nice to me, and compared to the pondlife etc, I wasn't causing them any issues - just taking my 'dole'.
I asked in a later session why he'd taking my P45 over. Apparently he'd never seen one so large 🙂
I too was signing on to keep my NI plus the money kept me in coffee/cake etc as I could see no work in my sector for a while (13 months in the end) and intended to ride as often as possible.
Oh and another way to break them, address in half mandarin in Taipei. When their system requires a UK address for previous employer!
I was given redundancy in April
The Covid experience was fine, helped by the fact that I was using an outplacement consultant
No pushing, no filling in daft forms, just a bi weekly call
Employer in administration – what now?
Download the client database ?.
Ours folded a couple of years back, the administrators hired an employee advocate company who basically sorted everything out for us. Everyone got a personal pack within 24 hours detailing everything you were entitled to, based on years service, age, etc and a step by step guide as what to do next. Sign on, fill in this form, post this back to us.
I'd been there years and was over 45 so in the end got nearly £20k in various tranches - 12 years of statutory redundancy at £575 per year scaled by 1.5 as I was over 45 - that came very quickly. Then at various points throughout the next year other payments arrived (all arranged for me by the advocate company). Now I might get anywere from £0 up to £4.60 from the actual insolvency process (dividing sold off assets by outstanding debt). The debt was north of $20m and the assets were sod all, hence if I'm really lucky it might buy a pint.
They are simply not geared up…. to deal with professional people.
+1
The local team, who I must say were always polite and genuinely had good intentions as far as I could make out, couldn’t get their heads(or perhaps adjust the system) to take into account the very cyclical recruitment practices for teachers, and that if I managed to get an interview in April and was successful, the job I was going for wouldn’t start until September. It will be even worse now that UC will start to be ‘sanctioned’ if you don’t accept any job after 28 days.
As it was I didn’t go back into teaching and they steered me towards the new enterprise allowance which was intended to guide you into self-employment with a start up grant. Needless to say this has been discontinued from 1-1-22 since some of the funding was via the EU.
WCAs description of the dole office could have been me many years ago. They are simply not geared up (or remotely clever enough) to deal with professional people. When I explained that I would be opting to start a Masters rather than working at Ladbrokes, the woman looked at me and said “you can’t keep drifting you know”…
To be fair, it's a system intended to stop the poorest person from starving (which it occasionally fails at). It can't rationalize why you would not take the counter job at B&Q paying £400/week but instead want £73.
I did it for a couple of months then took the equivalent of the B&Q job (well, a temp lab assistant role when what I really wanted was consultant/contractor work designing oil refineries). Used to sign on the (electronic) dotted line, then go over the road to gregs, buy 8x large cups of tea and a box of cakes to give to the homeless as I walked back to the bus stop. £73 wasn't nothing, but I figured it was never going to be the difference for me between paying the mortgage or not.
If you've been made redundant you get 6 months of means tested free UC (or did 2 years ago) and are allowed to be fussy about what roles you're looking for (before they tighten the screws and demand you take anything).
I lasted 2 weeks on UC, I got struck off for going skiing (you're not allowed to leave the country).
...You’ll get a letter at some point from the administrators which will say you’re at the bottom of the list for money...
Not sure if that is quite correct my understanding would be as an employee then you are 2nd in line for any available funds though believe only wages and owed holiday pay covered not notice or redundancy...1st in line are the Administrators fees...if a contractor and not an employee then at bottom of list
Things may have changed in 20 years but top of the list was administrators, HMRC and secured creditors and staff were considered unsecured creditors. Whether there were different categories of unsecured creditors or not I can't remember but my final payment was less than 1p per £1 of money owed as there's not much left once HMRC, administrator and secured creditors have been paid.
hings may have changed in 20 years but top of the list was administrators, HMRC and secured creditors and staff were considered unsecured creditors. Whether there were different categories of unsecured creditors or not I can’t remember but my final payment was less than 1p per £1 of money owed as there’s not much left once HMRC, administrator and secured creditors have been paid.
Yep, in England and Wales, creditor rankings are:
1. Fixed charge holders.
2. Liquidators' fees and expenses.
3. Preferred creditors (rent due to a landlord, wages and salaries, unpaid income tax and social security contributions)
4. Floating charge holders.
5. Unsecured creditors.
6. Interest incurred on all unsecured debts post-liquidation.
7. Shareholders.
So unpaid wages are fairly high up the rankings.
There was something in the news recnetly about HMRC wanting to bump themselves up to the top IIRC.....
you need to sign on immediately, cause any redundancy payments you claim from the government, they will deduct anything you haven't claimed from the statutory redundancy payment you get. I got docked for leaving it 3 days.
You'll need to fill out online forms to get your redundancy/accrued holiday pay/ time in lieu/loss of income money back.
You'll get what you are due(maybe), you'll be dealing with the administrators to make sure things like holidays due are correct(I'd to get mine readjusted, so keep an aye on things).
You'll need to be filling out this stuff.
Redundancy claim
https://www.gov.uk/claim-redundancy
As I say, sign on immediately, you'll be losing money if you don't.
I also think if you get a job in the meantime, the government will cut your money aswell. They are quite miserly about it all.
Also, if you want to make your life easier at the bru, ask about a thing called NEA, New enterprise allowance. It's a dawdle, and will keep them off your back for 6 months with minimal contact. It's a scheme about getting your self setup as self employed. But you could easily bullshit it if you want the extra payments. All you need is an idea for a business.
Actually helped give me the time to set up. Not sure if it's still going, but worth looking into.
You’ll need to fill out online forms to get your redundancy/accrued holiday pay/ time in lieu/loss of income money back.
IIRC you get given a reference number from the administrator which you need in the form to tell HMRC about your situation....
Possibly, tbh I can't really remember the specifics, was 4 years ago now it happened to me. But yeah could be right. i do remember they pointed me in that direction.
Ah, the Job centre.
I found myself there after the credit crunch in 2009.
I found it a place full people with no hope, aspiration or expectation of betterment, but a couple of the staff were decent.
One was good enough to look me in the eye early on and say 'I have no doubt that you will find an appropriate job through your peer network, but you will still need to attend here and demonstrate your attempts to get a job'.
He was right, but mostly I went there because it was a condition of my redundancy insurance.
I went through this in summer '20 when furlough ended and the (events industry) company I work in folded.
On the whole it was a pretty painless experience and the administrators made it reasonably easy. (helps that my other half is an accountant with payroll experience though). The various tranches of cash turned up a couple of weeks after applying for them. I'd been working for the company for 23 years, so maxed out all the payments, and as I'd been on furlough for 3 or 4 months and hadn't taken any holiday, that was another sizeable lump.
As above - get any personal gear out PDQ. All my department had keys to the building, so we just arranged to go in a couple of days after it was announced, and before the administrators changed the locks and grabbed all our stuff.
I signed on immediately, but was then on and off for some time as I was picking up casual work here and there, but it was all day-by-day stuff, so no idea whether I was going to run into the maximum working hours in any given period until it happened. Phone calls to the job centre took a loooooooooong time, but I never actually had to go there.
If you have any income protection insurances- contact them now. I was made redundant on 3 months garden leave. As I was getting paid, I didn't make any contact with the ins company. 2 weeks into garden leave I got offered a contract, so garden leave ended & I started contracting for 18 months with no break. When I had a gap that looked like it could last a while, I contacted the company to claim some £. They turned it down as I hadn't told them when I was first made redundant and due to contracting, my employment status had changed from "employed" to "self employed"
Good luck.
Company I worked for went into administration, but they then got bought with some employees being offered their old jobs back on a reduced salary.
Statutory redundancy was refused - even to those that lost jobs (as we should have been TUP'ed but weren't) and it took a multi-year battle via an employment tribunal to get the money owed to me.
My colleagues were royally shafted as they didn't have the courage or desire to fight all the way.
Moral: Don't trust the administrator further than you can kick them.
I've only got one bit of advice to all the excellent stuff up there. I was laid off in 2000 just before the company I worked for was acquired. I'm fairly certain it was trading while insolvent. One thing I quickly discovered after being laid off was that the deductions from my pay packet for my stakeholder pension weren't going into my pension. The company was, it seemed, hanging on to them somehow. Management ignored my questions about this until I got a lawyer involved. So if you've been paying for stuff out of your salary before tax - whatever it is - just be careful to check those payments have actually been made.
I lasted 2 weeks on UC, I got struck off for going skiing
THE most STW/footflaps thing said on here to date?
Good luck OP, hope you get what you are due.
I lasted 2 weeks on UC, I got struck off for going skiing
I had to lie in my UC. Redundant in Christmas 2018, signed on but I'd already booked a holiday in Feb 2019. They wanted me to attend the office every week to prove I was still looking for work so I lied and said I was on a course in London. So they phoned me instead.
I had the mobile with me ready to answer as soon as they phoned in case they heard the international ring tone that you get when dialing abroad. Managed to pull that one off.
They are simply not geared up…. to deal with professional people.
Yep - they had absolutely no idea of Synthetic Organic Chemistry. They saw "Chemist" and started offering me minimum wage positions unloading a lorry at a pharmacists. No matter how much I explained that the high street chemist was different to a lab chemist, they just didn't get it. Although to be fair they were pretty polite as I never caused them any trouble. But yes, it's soul destroyingly awful.
Last time I was out of work I avoided signing on for about 6 months before I cracked. Applied for Universal Credit online, which was a nightmare, took several attempts as the system is hideous, only ever went into the job centre once and that was to prove who I was for the online application, don't think he even checked my passport in the end, had no wish to engage with me and I was out after 5 mins. Filled in an online looking for work diary, think I averaged maybe two applications a week, again still hunting for something pretty highly paid. Not a hint of support or follow up. Got a really good job and signed off, end.
One previous time I was told I was a light touch client, when I asked what that was I was told due to my skill / salary level there wasn't much they could do for me. Previous to that I cheekily signed on for 4 weeks after being made redundant knowing I had a new job lined up and had negotiated a 4 week period between jobs. Went for my first signing on and told the lady I had secured a new job and would start in 2 weeks. She was quite frosty when I first sat down, when I told her I had already found another job it was like a switch had been thrown, don't think they got many back into work from that local office, was almost expecting balloons to drop from the ceiling and fireworks to go off based on her reaction.
OP the best advice I can give is look forward, put your energy into your new role, anything you get out of the administrators is a bonus and will take time.
One thing I quickly discovered after being laid off was that the deductions from my pay packet for my stakeholder pension weren’t going into my pension.
Apparently my ex employer didn't make the last payment (on advice from poss the liquidators who they had been talking to). Can't remember the full details but I think the money gets made up out of the remaining assets (high up the rankings) so the employees don't loose out in the end. I might have to ask - was 2 years ago now.
Apparently my ex employer didn’t make the last payment
Only the last one! When my last employer thankfully went into administration back in March 2020 they hadn't been paying pension payments for 8 months. Their administration process is still ongoing as the books were an absolute shambles with lots of creative accounting going on.
OP - just to add to above. You get a CN number, login to the gov website and fill your details out and you'll get a couple of lumps of money around 6 weeks later. They check the numbers with the administrators to ensure it's all correct so don't take the piss. I couldn't remember how many holidays I had due so put 5 but as it was all based on accrued holidays it got knocked down to 3 and a bit.
They are simply not geared up…. to deal with professional people.
Ffs what do you expect? Even in the civil service, and back when I worked in the dhss which was grim, the dole office was regarded as a really crappy job. Crappy management, crappy systems, really crappy clients and no chance of success.
I bet they love it when a professional comes in to patronise them or maybe they couldn’t g.a.s either way. Pay peanuts etc.
They are simply not geared up…. to deal with professional people
Which makes a lot of sense. Professional people will mainly sort themselves out. The job centre is better off focussing on those who need help to find a job.
Ffs what do you expect?
To not be treated like most of their clients if they are unable to help you and respect the fact taking a dead end job in B & Q may not be your first priority. Would also be nice to see something back for the extra tax (both percentage and actual value) paid when it's our turn for help but our system doesn't work like that, it's a far from a universal system, worked consistently, paid a lot of tax, you're expected to sort yourself out, paid little to no tax, constantly out of work, that's what the system is geared up for dealing (unsuccessfully) with.
And all that has got naff all to do with the people working there, who are stuck with the system set by government and aren’t clever enough to deal with professionals
They are simply not geared up…. to deal with professional people.
Oh how quaint and naive to think job centre staff are they to help you! the process is as difficult and labyrinthine deliberately so as people either get sanctioned and are off the books or give up
respect the fact taking a dead end job in B & Q may not be your first priority.
Its the governments first priority - get you off benefits and careful with that attitude - that way lies being sanctioned. You now only have 4 weeks in which you can refuse unsuitable jobs before you are sanctioned
Would also be nice to see something back for the extra tax (both percentage and actual value) paid when it’s our turn for help but our system doesn’t work like that, it’s a far from a universal system, worked consistently, paid a lot of tax, you’re expected to sort yourself out, paid little to no tax, constantly out of work, that’s what the system is geared up for dealing (unsuccessfully) with.
Welcome to the real world. BTW - everyone is expected to sort themselves even the disabled.
paid a lot of tax, you’re expected to sort yourself out,
That is how it should be though, simplisticly the relationship with the state should be give according to your means and receive according to your needs.
And to further add to what seosamh77 said previously, you also need to get a claim going about a Protective Award.
The office staff at my failed employer had the happy task of taking KPMG to a tribunal and having Unison arguing that we shouldn't get it...
give according to your means and receive according to your needs.
Yeah I did the first bit, doesn't mean the second bit was easy or I didn't need some help finding another job.
So no it shouldn't be like that, state support should be there to help anyone who needs appropriate help, just because someone was OK last year doesn't mean they don't need help this year and it certainly shouldn't preclude help. TJs comment about the real world is more on the money, if you earn a decent amount and look after yourself you're simply a cash cow to pay for the totally ineffective welfare system we have which fails those few it's targeted at and ignores everyone else when they are in need.
Always worth remembering that only a very small % of people (I'm going to guess but it's in that sort of range) ever pay enough tax and use few enough services to avoid being a burden on the state in the long run.
Being a professional is not enough. You need to be a professional, not have kids and never need to go to hospital till you die early.
wbo not entirely true, you need to be in the top 40% of household incomes to be net contributors, so whilst the majority are net consumers a significant minority contribute so not just the highest incomes.
Net contributors over a lifetime of paying and receiving benefits? Much, much less than 40%. How many nurses a year can your tax payments cover? Even if you're paying 60 or 70K a year in tax, not many, and how many pay that?
Eh? You clearly don't understand the concept.
Always worth remembering that only a very small % of people (I’m going to guess but it’s in that sort of range) ever pay enough tax and use few enough services to avoid being a burden on the state in the long run.
Being a professional is not enough. You need to be a professional, not have kids and never need to go to hospital till you die early.
What a load of BS. If you're working you are contributing to the economy via your productivity at work which in turn puts money into the state outside of just your income tax and NI. You're contributing to corporation tax, GDP, VAT, government bonds, foreign investment etc all of which have a net effect on the amount of money and quality of service things like the NHS can provide. Not having children also means less people contributing to the tax revenue in the future as well.
Your contribution to funding public services goes far beyond just the income tax you pay.
What a load of BS.
Not really. Can't recall the exact number but until you earn about £45k, you're a net drain on UKPLC and over that you pay in more than you receive. Obviously, as with any average, you can't just apply the number blindly to any one individual.
But it makes sense, we currently run a current account deficit (ie borrow each year to pay for HMG expenditure), so we have more money going out than going in. Those who earn more will pay in more* and you can roughly split the populaton into two groups - net contributors and net drains.
* they also tend to contribute more in VAT / Stamp Duty and other taxes as they buy more expensive things and drive more thirsty cars etc.
How many nurses a year can your tax payments cover?
My PAYE + NI would pay for a single nurse (obs not the higher bands).
Not really. Can’t recall the exact number but until you earn about £45k, you’re a net drain on UKPLC and over that you pay in more than you receive. Obviously, as with any average, you can’t just apply the number blindly to any one individual.
But it makes sense, we currently run a current account deficit (ie borrow each year to pay for HMG expenditure), so we have more money going out than going in. Those who earn more will pay in more* and you can roughly split the populaton into two groups – net contributors and net drains.
* they also tend to contribute more in VAT / Stamp Duty and other taxes as they buy more expensive things and drive more thirsty cars etc.
It's too simplistic of a way of looking at it, you can't measure whether someone is a "burden on society" or a "net drain on UKPLC" based only on their tax contribution to the state.
If you removed all the people in that calculation who are "paying in less than they are using" most of those critical services would grind to a halt, thus making your metric worthless. If everyone was flying around earning over £45k for computer programming, net tax contribution or not there'd be no nurses, doctors, admin staff etc to treat them when they got sick. The fact we don't pay most of those workers enough to make them a net positive financial contribution doesn't remove their value as a labour force.
You are technically right mathematically on the basis by which you're calculating it, but in reality it doesn't work like that. Wbo is wrong in what he has said as he has only taken a small part of the equation and used it to demonstrate a point which works on far more variables than his proof takes into account.
If you want to take your point in isolation, then it's true. But it's also a worthless statement outside of academia.
Hopefully all work out.
I had two spells of unemployment. The first - alongside @donald - was when our employer went bust - liquidation rather than administration. Got about 10p in the £ of owed wages, there was a government scheme that took up some slack at the start. Found another job not so long after, and then jumped after a year to...
The second, was after nigh on 20 years with that company - made redundant on that occasion. Dole office wasn't so bad, they must have been making an effort to get engineers / developers new work - I got given a chit to go to Slaters and get a new interview suit, shirt & tie to value of around £250 IIRC.
It’s too simplistic of a way of looking at it, you can’t measure whether someone is a “burden on society” or a “net drain on UKPLC” based only on their tax contribution to the state.
Well from a fiscal point of view you can and people obvously do. Whether you decide to make that your only basis for judging peoples worth (to society) is a separate issue.
I think it's useful to remind people that the modest number of well paid individuals do quite literally subsidise the rest of society and without them our standard of living would have to drop.
You might as well measure it based on how many pineapples someone has posted to Belgium, as stated it is complete b*llocks.
