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WTAF!
Really? Wow.
Somehow won one championship (OK, yeah, the US Open) and has superbly underachieved ever since.
Oh well!
I don't really get the sports people getting these if i'm honest.
I'd rather give them to the woman at the Salvation Army who's given up every Sat morning to them since 1984.
I kind of understand how they bring a country together, sort of.... maybe... but still.. There's got to be more worthy out there.
I’d rather give them to the woman at the Salvation Army who’s given up every Sat morning to them since 1984.
might get one if she was nominated
I’d rather give them to the woman at the Salvation Army who’s given up every Sat morning to them since 1984.
These people still get them, they just don't make the news
Somehow won one championship (OK, yeah, the US Open)
So one of the most prestigious tournaments in tennis. I'm not a fan of the honours system in general but I'm not seeing the problem here.
These people still get them, they just don’t make the news
Yeah, but they don't get nominated the first Sunday they turn up at the soup kitchen do they?
Traditionally it's a retrospective- you wait until a career is nearly over or at least at/past it's peak before handing out the gongs.
traditionally it’s a retrospective- you wait until a career is nearly over
I hope not! 😉
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/awards-and-accreditation/content/103437
"The Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) is awarded for an outstanding achievement or service to the community which has had a long-term, significant impact."
Winning the US Open as a qualifier was an outstanding achievement.
The young lass who made a big boost to encourage young women into the sport with "our" best result in decades? Good luck to her.
In the meantime, crack on with your own volunteering and good deeds and you might get one too. Before you criticise, have you volunteered?
I hope not! 😉
🤣🤣
And the lady at the soup kitchen doesn't get paid hundreds of thousands for doing so.
An mbe for winning 6 tennis matches.....
Traditionally it’s a retrospective- you wait until a career is nearly over or at least at/past it’s peak before handing out the gongs.
A quick google tells me this isn't true. Murray got an OBE in 2012 - at that point he had won the same number of majors as Raducanu...
Exception noted- I meant as a sportsperson!
I guess in comparison to the likes of Konta, Robson and Watson, all of whom had successful careers of length, and contributed hugely to the profile and development of womens tennis.
A quick google tells me this isn’t true. Murray got an OBE in 2012 – at that point he had won the same number of majors as Raducanu…
Didn't he also have a couple of Olympic medals by then? And at least 5 years finishing the season in the top 5 places?
I guess in comparison to the likes of Konta, Robson and Watson, all of whom had successful careers of length, and contributed hugely to the profile and development of womens tennis.
None of whom won a major title! Virginia Wade was awarded an MBE in 1973 - the early to middle part of career, and four years before she won Wimbledon. She'd won two majors at that point.
Didn’t he also have a couple of Olympic medals by then? And at least 5 years finishing the season in the top 5 places?
He won gold at 2012. But you were talking about awards usually being towards the end of careers - this is ten years ago and Murray is still playing!
My great aunt Freda was awarded an MBE and she’d never won a tennis tournament. Maybe not even a single tennis match!
(was for services to nursing ☺️)
That's a point: two of my work colleagues have MBEs. They're very much mid-career and I can't confirm their racquet sport abilities.
My former employer fibbed to get one, I was very surprised they didn't do more research before she got it.
I always find it a bit sad that people need to be mean about other peoples ups and downs
Apparently she was the first ever qualifier to win a grand slam.
Before you criticise, have you volunteered?
As it happens I was a volunteer vaccinator for St John Ambulance for 12 months during covid
Does that count?
(I didn't win vast amounts of money or get £m's of pounds of sponsorship either.... Unless you count a couple of T shirts and a fleece?)
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If she had backed up her win with anything since then I'd be more understanding but so far.... Nothing.
She’s doing her best to prove it was a miracle win. Hopefully she’ll get it together, stick with a coach for more than a few weeks, and win another tournament some time again.
At the end of the day, the honours system is basically a PR construct that is perfect for increasing the soft power of the monarchy... they get to be seen with all the cool kids bowing down to them, all the while totally removed from politics or religion.
Meanwhile, the monarch is head of the Church of England and has private and confidential weekly meetings with whoever might be PM this week (not to mention a long history of associating with characters all too similar to Jeffrey Epstein).
Does it really matter what she has or hasn't done? Somebody decided she is deserving of an award...if you weren't in the running then it isn't any skin of your nose, so not really a big deal...and if it is a big deal, then please explain why.
And the moral of the story is. F*** helping others, go for yourself.
And the moral of the story is. F*** helping others, go for yourself.
Is it? A work colleague got her MBE for helping others.
If she had backed up her win with anything since then I’d be more understanding but so far…. Nothing.
She’s put together some awesome sponsorship deals that will set her up for life!! 😀
On a different note - is it protocol to keep your hat on when being honoured by the King!?
Apparently she was the first ever qualifier to win a grand slam
Boris in 85?
Boris in 85?
No, he was unseeded but not a qualifier.
Nah, he was unseeded at Wimbledon, but ranked about 20 in the ATP rankings.
Pretty standard, Olympic gold medal winners generally got one in the past, the lionesses got them, the 2003 Rugby World Cup team got them etc etc. Multiple winners and captains often get an upgrade, Eoin Morgan got a CBE. Knighthoods used to be given after careers, but that seems to have changed.
Apparently she was the first ever qualifier to win a grand slam
if I recall correctly, she was the second. First was in the 1930s. Emma was the first in the open era. I’m not a tennis fan, but I did watch the game. History making. And that was a stat that I recall.
At the end of the day, the honours system is basically a PR construct that is perfect for increasing the soft power of the monarchy… they get to be seen with all the cool kids bowing down to them, all the while totally removed from politics or religion.
I'm with Groucho on this.
She’s (literally) the poster child in all this. Great for PR, Young, beautiful, talented, ‘ethnic’ & doesn’t speak out; the perfect ‘diversity’ Tory poster child then.
I’m not a tennis fan but even I can recognise her achievement. If she does nothing else she’s still managed more than most will ever do in a lifetime (tennis results wise).
It’s not like she’s receiving it because she’s bunged the tories a mill or two in cash, is it?
And I’d rather her than David Beckham (after Qatar)...
It’s not like she’s receiving it because she’s bunged the tories a mill or two in cash, is it?
Exactly. But it's got the easily distracted focused on her and not them.
Exactly. But it’s got the easily distracted focused on her and not them.
TBF without the OP's rage post, I'd have remained unaware and disinterested in Emma's MBE...
Now I'm aware and still pretty disinterested, good luck to her, she's a much better tennis player than anyone else I know. But it's not really distracting me from all the other nonsense going on currently.
Maybe this isn't such a burning injustice, just a bit of news fluff...
If it’s that easy, why not go and win the US Open yourself next year?
But it’s not really distracting me from all the other nonsense going on currently.
So you're not one of the easily dis.....SQUIRREL!
’d rather give them to the woman at the Salvation Army
I'd rather not give any recognition to a weird religious cult.
these awards/merits have no value these days as they are given to any tom dick or harry.
I’d rather not give any recognition to a weird religious cult.
these awards/merits have no value these days as they are given to any tom dick or harry.
That weird religious culture is still one of the most hands on organisations helping the needy and homeless, without indoctrinating them
The people who I know who have had awards really have done amazing work to earn the recognition. Including some on here.
It’s quite typical of this country that we can’t congratulate people for their achievements, but would rather find reason to pour scorn on them. It really is an unattractive trait in people.
It’s quite typical of this country that we can’t congratulate people for their achievements
Completely agree shows the state of the uk at the moment - on here and all social media scorning hate on her. I don't remember any of that when Lewis Hamilton got an MBE in 2009 after winning his first championship?
I also wonder if this is because she's female?
No I don’t think it is. Lewis has his haters. There’s a part of people who can’t help thinking “it isn’t fair”, like to play the victim, he’s got more than I have etc which leads them to demograte people who have or achieve more than they do.
Sure privilege exists but lot of people would have / achieve more if they used that energy to improve themselves rather than screaming at others.
It’s quite typical of this country that we can’t congratulate people for their achievements, but would rather find reason to pour scorn on them. It really is an unattractive trait in people.
Winning some tennis tournament is an achievement .. getting an MBE for playing a sport/acting or generally being a celeb isn't and somewhat distracts from those who've actually done worthwhile stuff
She won one of the worlds most notable tennis tournaments when she was 18yo. As others have said, that’s no small achievement. And the awards is based on achievement as well as TiRed says.
If you don’t believe that’s an achievement you’re welcome to your opinion.
Agreed.
I admit i was slightly surprised when I read about her tbh, but fair play to the lass, she’s doing well out of her win.
If my kids were as talented as emma clearly is, I’d encourage them to do the best they can, so I don’t see any problem.
In case anyone is struggling to recall what she actually achieved, here’s an excerpt from t NY times:
Emma Raducanu, the 18-year-old British phenom, completed a shocking run through the U.S. Open with a straight-sets victory over Leylah Fernandez of Canada on Saturday for a title that will surely go down as one of the great underdog journeys in the history of sports.
Raducanu, ranked 150th in the world and barely known two weeks ago, became the first player to win a Grand Slam title after surviving the qualifying tournament, a scenario that may very well never be repeated. She also became the first woman from Britain to win a Grand Slam singles title since Virginia Wade won Wimbledon in 1977.
And she did it the way she had handled every other match she played in New York, where she did not lose a set in 10 matches, a remarkable 20-set streak and another feat that is unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Saturday’s score line was a clean 6-4, 6-3. “An absolute dream,” Raducanu called it
She didn’t lose a set in 10 matches... but what has she done since eh? Pfffttt... just shows how shit Serena Williams is too... 🤪
She’s also a half Chinese immigrant, I’m pretty sure she will an inspiration to many’s a young girl.
She won one of the worlds most notable tennis tournaments when she was 18yo.
Yes of course its an achievement but that is the Achievement why does it need any other recognition?
It's not like people winning at sports etc. is of any actually value to the country / people but only to them and their F&F so what is it recognising? Same for someone drives a car faster or rides a bike faster or kicks a ball .. it has zero value to anyone else.
If she/someone then claims "I did it for my country" they are either completely insane or liars.
Unlike for example the overwhelming majority of nurses or hospital workers etc. who got a "clap" in lockdown...
Here’s the full list of honours. There’s a long list of awards for people helping with medicine, children, healthcare and disability to consider alongside Emma’s own award.
It’s not like people winning at sports etc. is of any actually value to the country / people but only to them and their F&F so what is it recognising? Same for someone drives a car faster or rides a bike faster or kicks a ball .. it has zero value to anyone else.
You should pick a famous sportsperson and really research how they got there. For the majority it’s a lot of hard work, discipline, skill, talent, learning, time, loss, pain, hurt just to get to a level of recognition not just success. You speak as though she just picked up a tennis racket and happened to win. It’s value it to inspire others to do the same to be successful for themselves, their families or whomever they are playing for and very very often successful sports people go on to invest in charities, foundations, or other things which helps open the door to others. How many other young girls will be inspired by Emma, or actually how many would be deterred by her success if they hear some of the bitterness being poured out here and feel that could be the situation for them should they get to the same level?
It really requires some thinking about.
Has anyone checked the whole list of honours to make sure everyone else has "earned" theirs and met your own view of what the recognition criteria should be, or are you just picking on this one individual?
She did one thing that nobody else had ever done (qualifier winning a major), did something no british woman had done for over 40 years (won a major). I don't think there's a fixed number of awards so the decision to recognise her doesn't mean that someone else has to lose out, so I really don't understand the outrage.
You should pick a famous sportsperson and really research how they got there. For the majority it’s a lot of hard work, discipline, skill, talent, learning, time, loss, pain, hurt just to get to a level of recognition not just success.
and ???she got paid for doing her job... why the MBE?
It’s value it to inspire others to do the same to be successful for themselves, their families or whomever they are playing for
again and?
Does it matter if the UK never wins another medal or tournament again ever in any sport?
Does that feed people or heat their homes or cure their illnesses?
That weird religious culture is still one of the most hands on organisations helping the needy and homeless, without indoctrinating them
Doing good doesn't absolve the bad.
Has anyone checked the whole list of honours to make sure everyone else has “earned” theirs and met your own view of what the recognition criteria should be, or are you just picking on this one individual?
You don’t need to bother. It’s safe to assume that a small minority actually deserve them. Most will be for doing their job, donating enough to the government or rf. No doubt some will be given to the rf for being born
and ???she got paid for doing her job… why the MBE?
Theres quite a few people on STW who have been awarded honours that could be put in that category - myself included.
Yes of course its an achievement but that is the Achievement why does it need any other recognition?
Ah, Well there's the nub of it. Does anyone need any bonus recognition if the thing that brought that recognition was a reward in and of itself? And thus should that recognition (or who does and doesn't get recognised) really matter to anyone at all then?
Whether personal ambition, circumstances and talent makes someone successful in a sport or loving the baby Jeebus and having Human empathy causes another person to feed the homeless, neither person set out on their respective courses in life looking for a handshake and a medal from a Monarch did they?
Unsolicited, but welcome recognition is nice but hardly important in the grand scheme of things. And kind of makes getting wound up by what you see as an undeserved honour a bit weird...
It's pretty meaningless and harmless, aside from the energy expended by those objecting to it.
and ???she got paid for doing her job… why the MBE?
So did the midwife that just got an OBE for 46 years in the business, and the Muslim immigrant migrant child healthcare worker that has spent 30yrs helping house abused children. Read the list, Google a person.
I’m not going to argue against you Steve, you are clearly against Emma Raducanu being recognised for reasons which I can’t understand. 🤷♂️
Doing good doesn’t absolve the bad.
Which bad are you referring to that the Salvation Army has done?
No skin in the game, they aren't my cup of tea, just curious for any actual examples other than the usual "being religious"
she got paid for doing her job… why the MBE?
Because, by granting an MBE, the monarchy are then in a position to effectively take some of the credit for her achievement...
At the end of the day, the honours system is basically a PR construct that is perfect for increasing the soft power of the monarchy… they get to be seen with all the cool kids bowing down to them, all the while totally removed from politics or religion.
On top of that, by granting honours for good deeds and charitable work, by association, they also gain moral standing.
Genius is what it is, but unlike the deeds of many of those who are granted them, far from honourable
You all know you can nominate people you think deserve an award? Or get people who think you deserve one to nominate you?
In case you're feeling left out?
It is a bit weird that people are slagging ER for getting and MBE when there are shed loads of Kighthoods given out to 'mates' of politicians that have either done pretty much nothing to deserve it or even sometimes bordering on criminal.
But no, lets slag off someone who beat the rest of the world at something, at a really young age and inpsired and became a role model for young girls all over the country.
But no, lets slag off someone who beat the rest of the world at something, at a really young age and inpsired and became a role model for young girls all over the country.
Yeah but....
There's a whiff of misogyny throughout this thread...
I’m not going to argue against you Steve, you are clearly against Emma Raducanu being recognised for reasons which I can’t understand. 🤷♂️
Its because Emma Raducanu is a sports celeb... it's that simple
I'm against sports/celebs in general being given a MBE or the other level honours awards because it devalues those who got one for doing something worthwhile not because they didn't achieve something special to them through their hard work and dedication
Honours lists should IMHO be for people who do something for the good of others ...
Monkeyboyjc
There's quite a few people on STW who have been awarded honours that could be put in that category – myself included.
Nothing personal against you or them.... though I guess to an extent it depends on what turning up and doing the job is. Maybe I should word it more specifically.... "just turned up and did their job" vs people who for example took a specific job because they wanted to help others.
for example nurses who had to stop in bedsits and hotels unable to go and see their families during lock down and turned up to work everyday. Air ambulance and paramedics who go beyond... or just someone goes round and gives food and blankets to the homeless night after night.
Kryton57
So did the midwife that just got an OBE for 46 years in the business, and the Muslim immigrant migrant child healthcare worker that has spent 30yrs helping house abused children. Read the list, Google a person.
Those sound like things I believe we should be awarding MBE's or OBE's for....
Take for example:
Sunday Times' Sportswoman of the Year and BBC Midlands Junior Sportswoman of the Year in 2005, and then BBC Midlands Sportswoman of the Year in 2008 not to mention the unbeaten string of WC wins... or how about Danny but hey he doesn't know the national anthem?
Seems like we should instead have National (unless we argue BBC is) Sports persons of the year awards.... rather than mix this into what should be civil honours for "doing stuff for others" ... I'd be totally up for supporting her recognition as Sports Person of the year ... or Tennis Sports woman of the year etc. I just don't think its at all appropriate mixing with the other 2 examples you gave...
Ah. So in your opinion she isn’t worthy. Thanks for the clarity.
ads678
It is a bit weird that people are slagging ER for getting and MBE when there are shed loads of Kighthoods given out to ‘mates’ of politicians that have either done pretty much nothing to deserve it or even sometimes bordering on criminal.
Who has slagged off Emma Raducanu for getting an MBE?
I just said she didn't do anything to deserve a civil honour... not her fault.
my whole point is the honours are being given out like its still a feudal system .. "ooh gosh Emma you did so well for the Queen in that game" . and I totally agree borderline criminals being knighted let alone peers buying their peerage.
my whole point is the honours are being given out like its still a feudal system .. “ooh gosh Emma you did so well for the Queen in that game”
At no point do I think of awards being given for services to the monarch. They just aren't.
I think that reflects more on how you feel about the monarchy and how they make you feel about yourself or your perceived position in the feudal system.
Doing good doesn’t absolve the bad.
Which bad are you referring to that the Salvation Army has done?
No skin in the game, they aren’t my cup of tea, just curious for any actual examples other than the usual “being religious”
I'm waiting for a reply to this so I know how evil my Great-aunt Enid really was...
ooh gosh Emma you did so well for the Queen in that game
Just to point out she’s been awarded for “services to Tennis” not just for that game. This includes a career since she was 5, being a practice partner for British talent before her for some years. It also includes several “youngest” titles.
Is it really worth getting objectional about?
Look at the list of MBEs, there are far more military and civil awards than sports people. Though a lot more sports people than just lickle Emma!
Go through the list and see who is deserving? Nice that Scary Spice got one, I say 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_New_Year_Honours
and check all the BEMs for charitable work! it's not like Emma nicked a medal from someone more deserving. Is it?
I just said she didn’t do anything to deserve a civil honour… not her fault.
Why should sports people not get the opportunity of an award?
Watching people play elite sport gives many people a lot of joy, and they are inspiring to folk young and old, so I don't really see the issue with that being recognised by a civil honours scheme.
And to the monarchy/feudalism point, that's just a product of our current constitution - a separate debate I think.
Many republics have similar honours schemes, the French even made Kylie Minogue a Knight...
Just one of their faults.
Just one of their faults.
Thst wasn't what I expected pected to see.
Housing association staff had better not go getting awards then
Who has slagged off Emma Raducanu for getting an MBE?
I just said she didn’t do anything to deserve a civil honour… not her fault.
Ah ok, so you're ok with her getting it as it's not her fault she was given it, but the system shouldn't have given it to her as she doesn't deserve it....
and ???she got paid for doing her job… why the MBE?
I think most would agree that she has achieved outstandingly within her profession, which is a very common reason for awarding an MBE.
Why should sports people not get the opportunity of an award?
They can just not a civil honour just for playing their chosen sport.. and she already did get an award, she won the open got the prize but sure why not have sports people of the year as well just separate it from people actually doing a service to actual people.
Equally we have actors and actresses... surely that's what the BAFTA's are for if its actually acting/directing?
If they donate to a charity and philanthropy that's separate but services to acting, fashion etc. sorry those are just concepts not people.
Civil Honours should be about doing something for the community, people ... not about being committed to doing well at a sport or acting or fashion.
Not being funny but someone setting up a bike park for kids (not pointing fingers much but just being STW) or giving poorer kids something to do by running clubs, or setting up a food bank etc. all these are services to people... just doing "golf" or "tennis" or even MTB and being very good because you practiced and have talent isn't a community service.
or this....
Adrian Paul Smith, Chief Executive, Reclaim Fund Ltd. For services to Financial Sector.
And to the monarchy/feudalism point, that’s just a product of our current constitution – a separate debate I think.
Perhaps... but it's certainly a bit of bread and circuses and misdirection.
Toss up at the moment if Charles or Richi ... though even as a staunch Republican I think I'd rather it was Charles or Liz than Truss or Johnson.
Fundamentally I object to "For King and Country" or just "For Country" but it's all a bit Matt Hancock to me.
ads678
Ah ok, so you’re ok with her getting it as it’s not her fault she was given it, but the system shouldn’t have given it to her as she doesn’t deserve it….
You make it sound like its something everyone gets unless they did something wrong... not getting one is a punishment?
I see it less as "she doesn't deserve it" as "she did nothing to deserve it but many people did".
I think most would agree that she has achieved outstandingly within her profession,
Yes she'd a superb tennis player...
which is a very common reason for awarding an MBE.
Which is my objection
Civil Honours should be about doing something for the community, people … not about being committed to doing well at a sport or acting or fashion.
In your opinion. Here's the actual rules:
"Awarded for an outstanding achievement or service to the community. This will have had a long-term, significant impact and stand out as an example to others."
Note the words in bold and specifically the "or" joining them together.
Which is my objection
Unfortunately for you, you didn't make the rules so therefore ER receives an MBE for an outstanding achievement of which the US Open win is just one on her Tennis CV. Just accept it and move on.
jimdubleyou
And to the monarchy/feudalism point, that’s just a product of our current constitution – a separate debate I think.
Actually, bit of an afterthought but I was watching Kamila Valieva (Russian Fed) last night on YT... I know sod all about skating (neither does my mum but she seems to be using my YT to watch it) but they were saying the best skater ever lived and she's 15... and abso-bloody-lootly-amazing...
Just the sort of thing in Soviet times it's "look how good we are" and in post soviet times still a "Russians are the best" - or at the moment better than Ukraine type nationalism. In no way am I saying she wasn't amazing but I suspect she'll be given some Russian award... Its just these "nationalistic type things" I view as highly distasteful and I agree ours is shaped or coloured by the present constitution.
Its all very empire to me.. something we should be trying to leave behind.
Award people for doing good stuff for their communities or wider .. not being famous or good at sport, acting etc. or at least do the sport/acting etc. separately
Which is my objection
Of all the problems with the honours system, this is somewhere near the bottom of the list.
ransos
Of all the problems with the honours system, this is somewhere near the bottom of the list.
To me this is what fundamentally makes it worse than worthless in 2022.
Fashion editor of the Telegraph being awarded "Services to fashion" ???
Some bloke at a museum being awarded "Services to ceramics"???
Some one wins some sport competition ??
It's all very colonialist... look how great the UK is... like the whole waste of money hosting the Olympics to do what.. to prove to the rest of the world we can't organise a piss up in a brewery?
This reeks to me of the same sort of corruption as the VIP fastlane for PPE.... with a few token people actually doing stuff that actually deserves some civil honour being let through to add some legitimacy.
When this is some sort of celeb this should be for the likes of Marcus Rashford who actually did something more useful than kick a bag or wind round a field.