[Closed] Elron Musk defamation.

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Or :

Whoever has the best lawyers most money wins i suppose

Pretty unbelievable, tbh. If you're rich or famous I guess you can pretty much get away with anything.

If it was just one tweet the argument might hold water. It was actually two tweets, an email to a journalist, and an attempt to get a private investigator to dig up dirt (even if he did manage to get himself scammed).

Musk is a ****.

you'd think that defense might have some credence if the tweet has been seen by 1 or 2 people before it's deleted but it went global.

What Musk tweeted was wrong and, whether a PR stunt or not, why suggest "stick his submarine where it hurts" in the first place? In terms of school yard, "but he started it miss", it did seem like the diver did have a pop first

you’d think that defense might have some credence if the tweet has been seen by 1 or 2 people before it’s deleted but it went global.

Unsworth initially accusing Musk of 'just being in it as a publicity stunt and he could stick his submarine where it hurts' made pretty big news as well (his comments were in interview with a CNN reporter). as said above it's just two children throwing playground insults at each other and Unsworth started it.
I'm of the opinion that Unsworth should have had the basic common sense to be more diplomatic in front of the media, in the first place.

It's also going to court in the UK

Unsworth wasn't a public figure and no doubt lacked media training. In addition, he was in the middle of attempting to save the lives of 13 people. Musk came along, in a very public manner, with an ego massaging machine rather than a genuine solution to the problem at hand. I would be pretty pissed off as well.

If you call someone a pedo it tends to stick in people's mind. This wasn't a term for 'creepy old guy' as Musk tried to pass it off as. He was calling Unsworth a child molester.

I would be pretty pissed off as well.

Why? All Unsworth had to say was "Thanks but no thanks". Sure, Musk has a big ego but to assume it was only PR seems a little unfair...its not like musk needs more exposure, he generates plenty!

Why can't they stick to to already established terms, jdart = Edinburgh defence.

FFS tj had the t-shirts printed and ready to ship.

I was expecting Musk to be found guilty with a silly low damages i.e £1 awarded to Unsworth. Winning is just going to massage Musks ego.

Not sure how these things work but maybe the guy would have stood a better chance of winning if he wasn't asking for so much? £145M seems more than a bit ridiculous. I'd get 'pedo guy' tattooed on my forehead for that.

I read somewhere that defamation cases in USA are much harder to win because of the ‘free’ speech constitution. It maybe a different story in the UK courts though.

I initially thought Unsworth would win, it seemed straight forward - Musk unfairly made a very public, insult about someone and rather than swiftly saying, “heat of the moment, you upset me with your stick it where it hurts comment”, he continued to reinforce the original assertion.*

BUT then I read the quotes of Unsworth’s evidence to the court. It just didn’t seem credible, things like “this is a life sentence without parole” and “ashamed”, “humiliated” and “difficult to even read the word pedo”. AND (and perhaps this is the weirdness of the US legal system) he was suing for $145M. Now given that the public dispute after Musks comments meant nobody believes he is a pedo (if there was likely to be evidence to support such a claim you might expect Unsworth to have been less public in his defense). And that his court case is the thing raising its publicity in everyone’s minds a year on, its hard to believe that either you get to those sort of damages OR that the feelings he communicate in court were reasonable responses to being called a name by a ****.

*i have not studied the detail of the case, but the news article I read seemed to suggest that Musks defense was exactly this - I can’t really see how you can claim that story if after it becomes clear you’ve caused offense you bet people it’s true, pay someone to try and prove it’s true etc. in more bizzare US legal behaviour, the foreman of the jury seemed to be quoted saying the pursuer should have made less of the emotion (I agree) and more of the evidence.

If the UK case continues it will be interesting to see how it pans out. There will be no Jury there which might help, as likely to be some coherent explanation of the judgement. Personally I think it would be good for social media if there was some recourse for people who are wrongly victim to malicious abuse; without anyone being able to disingenuously invoke the Edinburgh Defense!

If the UK case continues it will be interesting to see how it pans out. There will be no Jury there which might help,

I'm struggling to see how he was advised to bring an action in the US. Apart from the prospect of a much larger award of damages, that is.

Elon Musk has successfully muddied the waters for a jury, he'll have more trouble for a UK judge.

It seems pretty straightforward to me in UK libel terms - he not only called him 'pedo guy', he doubled down when challenged, realised he'd defamed Unsworth with no evidence, desperately hired a private investigator to try to substantiate the claim (sorry, the obvious joke he'd made), failed to do so, and referred to Unsworth as a 'child rapist' in an email to a journalist. Most of his subsequent actions completely undercut any 'Edinburgh Defence', as it shows that he stood by the defamatory statement, and that it wasn't just a random insult on twitter.

My understanding from a TV news report just now is that the action failed because the jury wasn't convinced that he'd suffered the scale of "loss" of reputation that he was alledging.

Musk might be an idiot, but it seems a wider legal point wasn't proven enough to satisfy a jury?

I don't get it tbh. I think I'm OK with the jdart defence, I've done that myself and accidentally caused a lot of offence without meaning to. But he didn't retract, did he? He repeated it at least 2 other times. "stop defending child rapists" So

"Alex Spiro, Mr Musk's lawyer, argued that the "pedo guy" tweet was an offhand comment made in the course of an argument between the two men, which no-one could be expected to take seriously."

Seems like bullshit tbh. You don't make an offhand joke, regret it, then repeat it.

Same time, I think that Unsworth and his team played it very badly, it's like they smelled blood in the water and decided to go for the biggest possible win, and ended up undermining the whole thing.

UK law defines a defamatory statement as one which could cause you to be shunned or avoided, or lower your reputation in the eyes of 'right thinking members of the public'. Describing someone as a paedophile certainly crosses that line. The judge then sets damages based on the scale of the publication (global, millions of followers) and the likely loss of reputation.

Given the number of folk who would look at a statement like that from a global celebrity and think 'no smoke without fire', I would have thought they would be substantial. And that Musks actions after the initial tweet would be an aggravating factor.

the action failed because the jury wasn’t convinced that he’d suffered the scale of “loss” of reputation that he was alledging.

The damages he was seeking were definitely OTT. But if I was a juror that would be discounted, I'd look at the core claim and hope "appropriate" damages were awarded. As mentioned that might just be a token amount.

Well Musk is lucky he didn't say he'd heard rumours about Unsworth on the jungle telegraph.

How the hell did they come up with that figure, I'd sign on the register for 1% of that, no wonder they lost, especially when you throw the first stone, you don't become a billionaire without being totally ruthless and influential, obvious outcome in my opinion.

£145M seems more than a bit ridiculous.

Exactly.... What a dick move. Makes the whole thing look like a money grabbing exercise and nothing more.
If he'd been after £1m the jury may have believed him a bit more.
I do wonder why he started the whole 'stick it up your arse' thing in the first place.... Seems like a pretty stupid thing to say.

So if someone is really pissed off with Musk and his billionaire bullying tactics is it ok to call him a "PEDO GUY" online? Let's face it he looks dodgy and his behaviour is weird.

Sorry I retract that. Musk doesn't look and behave at all weirdly does he? There's no way he would be a a pedo.....Mind you would you let him babysit?

It must now be ok to say "Tesla? Those cars made by the pedo guy?"