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What exactly is wrong with the reasonable person test?
No, let's not, because that is a strawman. We're interested in the here and now.
They are both 'strawmen' of a type. What is reasonable may depend on your outlook, experience, expectations etc... As a result it's probably not the most reliable.
[quote=jamj1974 ]I'm not white. Neither do I find the image offensive.
There we go, the first piece of evidence that it's only white folk finding it offensive.
[quote=jamj1974 ]Perhaps if your daily life is still affected by prejudice and it affects your life chances - as it is for many people in America, you could feel differently?
Perhaps if that picture actually reinforced the prejudice which affects their life chances. I acknowledge the US is a racist society (I've contributed on that side to another recent thread on here regarding a black Olympian), but that doesn't make the tweet racist. Because we come back to the fundamental point which we've been ignoring whilst arguing about whether it's reasonable to be offended - even if somebody does find it offensive, that doesn't make it racist.
They are both 'strawmen' of a type.
Nothing at all strawmanny about suggesting a reasonable person test - not for any normal definition of "strawman" - or is that definition something which depends on your life experiences?
OK, so let's try the logic on this one (I'm assuming logic isn't the academic research you're appealing to authority on)
I don't claim ability as a philosopher. I did write a reasonable dissertation related to prejudice and who it is experienced and expressed in the relationship between minorities and majorities in populations. I wouldn't say I am an expert, but I was reasonably well read in this area. More than most would care to be, I imagine.
Given you appear to agree with me that you can find somebody who finds anything offensive, then by extension everything is offensive.
Possible, but unlikely. I think you may be reaching slightly. Over-extending the argument to an almost absurd point.
My original point is the same. To be concerned if someone may be offended is not ridiculous. I still personally don't find the image offensive at all. Nor do I think it likely that Ellen intended to offend. I do think asking white males if an image is likely to be offensive to a black person - and expecting the judgement to be inherently correct is borderline hilarious. If you can't see why - that demonstrates how fundamentally trapped you are by your own experience - not superior logic.
An attempt to build a situation where something can be explored can be seen as a strawman. Both examples do that.
Aracer. We are not going to agree. Let's leave it there.
[quote=jamj1974 ]Possible, but unlikely. I think you may be reaching slightly. Over-extending the argument to an almost absurd point.
It's simply the logical conclusion if you refuse to apply a test of reasonableness. If you think that is an absurd point, then presumably at some point you're deciding that it is unreasonable to be offended by something if you consider it to be sufficiently innocuous?
As I said. Let's leave it there.
I find offensive behaviour offensive. So whilst I may not be offended by your racist joke, the fact you made it offends me.
How about that? 🙂
No, why?
Well, I nominate I_Dib_Dab for most sensible forum post of the century....
looks a tiny bit racerist to me maybe?
Put a white pointy hood on Ellen and the whole context changes, just saying
It's okay to be offended by this.
If for some it invokes thoughts of a disgusting oppression of an entire race, then yes it's okay to be offended by such a picture and comment.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't have been posted though. This reminds me of those sexism threads :0)
[i]Well, I nominate I_Dib_Dab for most sensible forum post of the century.[/i]
What, like just rephrasing what the BBC story says? Must've taken some deep thought 😆
That Russell Kane comedian fella seems to agree with me, so I'm content.
And...
[i]If for some it invokes thoughts of a disgusting oppression of an entire race, then yes it's okay to be offended by such a picture and comment[/i]
Surely - you're [i]offended[/i] by the [i]disgusting oppression of an entire race[/i], rather than the picture, which has quite helpfully invoked those thoughts. In which case the picture is a good thing and not offensive in the slightest.
you are all going on about why it is or isn't offensive and missing it completely.
I am truly offended! as I'm slow and don't see why I can't carry a minor celebrity down t shops like them fast people. Them fast people they get everything an the y never share stuff out with us slowcoaches. They get all the medals, all the best joggin shoes, best bikes, best this best that, there always on the telly. I'm sick of fast people an there medals! I want a slow Olympics, well if I can get of the sofa I do.
I am truly offended! as I'm slow and don't see why I can't carry a minor celebrity down t shops like them fast people
I was on TV, once and a long time ago. You can carry me down to the shops if I make the grade? 😀