Elitism and snobbery in music

With age comes wisdom my friend

I can live with a future obsession with roadworks discussions. I can live with forgetting where I put stuff. I can even wear the beige piss stained trousers. But if I have to listen to Metallica in my dotage I might just end it now.

As I've got older I've realised there is value in all music, it's so much better this way.

If you think Metallica are good wait until you hear some decent heavy metal bands.

Ouch - TBF there’s nothing wrong with Metallica - any opinion on ‘better’ rock bands is just subjective. (I’m more of a Sabbath / Maiden / AC/DC fan but Metallica are okay).

As I’ve got older I’ve realised there is value in all music, it’s so much better this way

Happy-hardcore being the obvious exception.

Early Metallica is good, but they became a bit mainstream with the occasional good number.
I always preferred the British heavy metal scene, bands like Maiden, Saxon and Nazareth.

Whenever I discover a sort of music now, I always think "have I changed, or was I just not exposed to this in a way that'd have led to me really listening to it" and then generally I think who cares, and listen to it anyway. There's good stuff in just about every genre and even really crap bands have their moments, and new stuff's easier than ever to listen to so why put up walls for your ears?

Metallica were kind of my gateway drug though- that, and queen, or more precisely freddie mercury dying. Watching the tribute concert as a family, everyone else is going "what is this awful noise" and I was over in the corner with fireworks going off in my head. Never been a more important band for me, never will be, even though I'm not that into it any more.

If you really want to know where you are with your musical snobbery regarding Metallica, let’s see how you feel about this

@binners
That's a belter 👍

The irony is that elitism and snobbery in music means you’re only allowed to like the first 3 (or perhaps 4, I can never remember whether AJFA is approved) Metallica albums.

Music criticism is mostly populated by knobbers in my opinion.

https://theweek.com/articles/827454/strange-death-easy-listening

So why have I just discovered Metallica?

Radio 1 & 2 never played them very much. Neither did commercial radio, for that matter. 😉

Ouch – TBF there’s nothing wrong with Metallica – any opinion on ‘better’ rock bands is just subjective. (I’m more of a Sabbath / Maiden / AC/DC fan but Metallica are okay).

I don’t like everything of Metallica’s, but there’s a great many artists whose albums aren’t all killer, no filler; I’ve seen them three times, and they can go on a bit, but the likes of Maiden, Saxon, AC/DC, in fact pretty much all of the NWOBHM do nothing much for me anyway. Hell, the first music that really changed my life musically was King Crimson in 1969; ‘21st Century Schizoid Man’ is totally metal!
I prefer NIN, Tool, Opeth, Pigsx7, Pinkshinyultrablast, Apocalyptica, Pixies*…

I can be a music snob, I detest pretty much everything that comes from Radio 1 and all commercial radio stations.

You want snobbery and elitism in music, well classical can outdo popular music hands down, and opera, well…

I believe Aldous Huxley, who I’ve got a quote from about music tattooed on my arm, was apparently a terrible snob about quite a lot of classical music, he’d be appalled at some of what get’s played at the Proms these days, and Bonobo playing the RAH would have likely given him an aneurysm!

*Yeah, I know but they’re chuffing loud, and being against the barrier with 1800 people behind getting very enthusiastic and crowd surfing, there’s not much difference.

@binners - yup, that is an awesome track, I love it to bits, but I’ve got plenty of time for Miley anyway, and Lana Del Ray, Taylor Swift…

edit> just listened to that again, bloody brilliant, had shivers down my spine. Fantastic arrangement, and I love the video as well. 🥰

Miley is absolutely bloody brilliant! I’ve got two teenage daughters who love her, Lana Del Ray and Taylor Swift. Mad to think that when they were really young they used to watch her as Hannah Montana and they loved her then. Quite a journey she’s been on

I can never remember whether AJFA is approved

Fails the Newsted test for those who think every album should have been a rewrite of Kill Em All. I liked Newsted's playing (awaits lunch mob).

As I’ve got older I’ve realised there is value in all music, it’s so much better this way.

This. And just because it's not for me, doesn't mean it's bad - it's just not for me.

As I’ve got older I’ve realised there is value in all music, it’s so much better this way.

Same, it's nice to open your mind to stuff you would have once dismissed and find something new to enjoy.

Happy-hardcore being the obvious exception.

You've obviously never heard gabba.

There really isn't value in all music, most might fall into the music you like or don't category, but there is just some really awful ****ing crap about as well.

My problem with music as I get older is my tolerance for listening to music I don't like has decreased massively, so while I used to be able to listen to the radio all day and filter out the crap to just find the songs I enjoy, I just can't do that anymore, especially when I have a fairly large music library on my phone I can use (also not helped by the increase in "talk time" by pratish presenters that have replaced dj's)

Happy-hardcore being the obvious exception.

You’ve obviously never heard gabba.

I used to use Gabba to encourage people to leave my flat. I still listen to some hardcore of various flavors. It's a bit of a laugh.

while I used to be able to listen to the radio all day and filter out the crap to just find the songs I enjoy, I just can’t do that anymore, especially when I have a fairly large music library on my phone I can use (also not helped by the increase in “talk time” by pratish presenters that have replaced dj’s)

So much this 😂

Never too late to discover great bands and Metallica are/were a GREAT band. There's heavier/thrashier/more whatever but they just did it so well. I say did just because I do like the earlier stuff.

you’re only allowed to like the first 3 (or perhaps 4, I can never remember whether AJFA is approved) Metallica albums.

Or everything past Kill Em All sucks if you're a purist for thrash metal? Dunno / don't really care. I like Metallica for what was in those albums. First 4 were good, like the Black album too tbh but it was different.

Never really spent the time on the later albums, was a fan when I was younger and came back to those first 5 albums in the last 10 years or so. Later albums didn't really grab me but maybe I missed something among them. Albums are like books - if they don't grab me or at least interest me by about a third of the way in, move on. I know music can grow on you but there's too many books and albums in the world and not enough time. Come back to them later perhaps.

There's no good music or bad music, there's just music you like and music you don't.

Not being a snob here but that version of H.O.G. was just awful 😳

I liked Newsted’s playing (awaits lunch mob).

Belongs in the 'you know you're getting older' thread but - you know you're getting older when rather than a bar brawl over rival band's merits, we need to organise a finger buffet so we can discuss it in a civilised manner.

(I know it's an autocorrect but made me laugh)

IHN and sc-xc have, in my opinion at least, expressed my feelings on music. It's possible to find something to enjoy in nearly everything (yes, including happy hardcore and Gabba, even in Country) and it ultimately boils down to what you enjoy at that time, in that place and in that mood.

I all other situations, it's just background noise.

...and on the subject of Metallica

As I’ve got older I’ve realised there is value in all music, it’s so much better this way

Sometimes I'm almost going the other way. All music is an unwanted infliction put upon me. Oh look nice weather let's ruin or with music! Yes I'd love to hear that tired old hackneyed piece of music that I've never enjoyed listening to my entire life*, yes one more time! Bombarded with the same old drivel.

Other side of the coin is most people probably think I listen to a right old load of shite music too 🤣

Not being a snob here but that version of H.O.G. was just awful

Yeah, and at 2.20 she even goes and forgets the words!

Your musical taste is the one thing you should never feel the need to apologise for what you like is nobodies business but your own.

Opera was chosen by the upper classes in the C19th to get away from the masses in the theatre. Opera*, ballet and classical music have been culturally appropriated with a view to distinguish themselves as being superior. Ignore it. My last night's listening was Exile on Main Street and Bach's Magnificat, both pretty good rockers.

* they come from wildly different backgrounds, they fall in love, they endure all sorts of challenges, she dies.

whilst i enjoy the classic Metallica Hits (Enter Sandman, Battery, Master of Puppets etc), i think their best album is St Anger! Burn me on the cross 😛

But its always good to discover a band you like and then find out they have a mammoth back catalogue to sink your teeth into.

I discover new bands quite often and are always disappointed that they only have 2 singles to their name. I want more. And i want it now.

And i agree with age, the ability to tolerate (what i consider) to be rubbish music is less and less.

nickc
Your musical taste is the one thing you should never feel the need to apologise for what you like is nobodies business but your own.

So much this! Why do people get upset if someone doesn't like the same music as them? It doesn't matter!
I can't be bothered with Metallica (I mean, they've been and gone (don't correct me if I'm wrong) but - newsflash! there's new music out there!), but they were one of my Dad's fave bands in his 70s. He liked to rock it up while driving randomly about in his Prius.

If you really want to know where you are with your musical snobbery regarding Metallica, let’s see how you feel about this

I quite like this version

desperatebicycle

I can’t be bothered with Metallica (I mean, they’ve been and gone (don’t correct me if I’m wrong) but – newsflash! there’s new music out there!), but they were one of my Dad’s fave bands in his 70s. He liked to rock it up while driving randomly about in his Prius.

This is a great post.
In the 70s, your Dad drove around randomly in a car that didn't exist until the late 90s while listening to a band that didn't release their first album until the 80s?
Oh, and they released a new album about a month ago, so they aren't exactly been & gone. I know you said to not correct you, but.....hey, this is the internet :o)

They've released some good stuff & some bad stuff - Death Magnetic was un-listenable in my opinion, mainly due to the production and St Anger was erm.....yeah.
The new one is pretty good though.

There’s no good music or bad music, there’s just music you like and music you don’t.

Even Coldplay? What about Snow Patrol?

Come on.... its absolutely bloody awful!

😉

What about Snow Patrol?

Woah! Steady on there @binners old chap. Nowt wrong with chasing cars 😉 Generally I'd agree with Coldplay unless they are live. Still one of my fave Superbowl half-time shows and I was very taken with a Glasto performance (no idea when it was from I just stumbled across it on BBC2 one night).

In the 70s, your Dad drove around randomly in a car that didn’t exist until the late 90s while listening to a band that didn’t release their first album until the 80s?

Maybe you should learn to read a bit betterer

I remember them playing Snow Patrol's Run at the start of a Dusk til Dawn at Thetford one year...'light up, light up' as we all turned our lights on was a nice moment...

In the 70s, your Dad drove around randomly in a car that didn’t exist until the late 90s while listening to a band that didn’t release their first album until the 80s?

I think 'his' 70's rather than 'the' 70's 😃

The huge irony about Coldplay is that the people who talk about them the most are the people banging on about how much they don't like them.

ballet and classical music have been culturally appropriated with a view to distinguish themselves as being superior.

By people who don't go to performances of these types of music perhaps, but I've never actually encountered the snobbery that some people want to believe exists at these events. Folks say it's expensive but you could buy a £2K ticket at the stadium of Light - of all places for the Beyoncé Tour that's coming (ask me how I know) so it's not that?

 In the 70s, your Dad drove around randomly in a car that didn’t exist until the late 90s while listening to a band that didn’t release their first album until the 80s?

If you are going to accuse someone of making shit up, based on what they write, you need to make sure your own reading and comprehension are up to snuff. Otherwise you're going to end up looking a bit daft.

If you like your Metallica slightly less shouty

I liked that Miley version of nothing else matters
Best Metallica cover is this

If you are going to accuse someone of making shit up, based on what they write, you need to make sure your own reading and comprehension are up to snuff. Otherwise you’re going to end up looking a bit daft

To be fair, what he presumed I wrote would've been far more amusing than what I actually wrote. Though somewhat less true.

blokeuptheroad

If you are going to accuse someone of making shit up, based on what they write, you need to make sure your own reading and comprehension are up to snuff. Otherwise you’re going to end up looking a bit daft.

Oh yeah. I misread the post. 🙂
Accuse of making shit up? Blimey - chill out. I just thought it was a funny thing to post. Obviously, it was entirely my mis-reading that made it funny, rather than the actual post.
Look a bit daft? Well, it isn't the first time & certainly won't be the last.

Already dealt with by himself a few posts earlier, but the back-up is reassuring.

desperatebicycle

Maybe you should learn to read a bit betterer

If desperatebicycle needs a pint looking after, I'm sure he'll know who to ask 😉

Oh no. I should probably post something relevant to elitism & snobbery in music, to get this thread back on track!

FWIW - I love that Miley Cyrus cover of Nothing Else Matters. I first heard it on YouTube - there's a vid of them doing it on an American radio show - Howard Stearn, is it?
I think it's probably better than the original, with Miley Cyrus' voice.
I can't remember the name of the album it's from - not sure if it's an actual album, or just a collection of covers. But, I listened to that on Spotify and most of the covers came a cross a bit meh. The Miley Cyrus one really stood out, and one other - I think it was Of Wolf & Man but can't remember who covered it.

I don't really understand snobbery in music; you either like stuff or you don't - there's a bloke at work here who seems to sneer at everyone else's choice of music while being firmly stuck in the 70s & 80s listening to Genesis, Pink Floyd & The Rolling Stones.
I like a bit of everything, well apart from that modern droney rap stuff (and Def Leppard).

This reminds me of when Nessun Dorma was used for the World Cup workmate had a right attack of the vapours claiming it had been hijacked by commoners, we were postmen 🤔🙄😁

Accuse of making shit up? Blimey – chill out. I just thought it was a funny thing to post.

I'm dead chilled thanks, just fired up some Metallica off the back of this thread 😊

Internet innit.  What may seem like an obvious joke as you chuckle when typing it, doesn't always come across that way when stripped of the vocal intonation, body language etc. you'd get in a f2f exchange. I've been caught by out by that myself. What you wrote reads exactly as if you are accusing him of making it up, even if that is not what you meant.

Where's @dezb when you need him? I used to enjoy a lot of his posts on the music association thread (and disliked some). Found lots of new to me music off the back of that. What I liked about that thread was the anything goes nature of it.

Waves 😆

Funnily enough, I went to see The Range on Sunday, who I discovered off the Tune Association thread (Jamie posted, IIRC).
Was brilliant. And, ultimate snobbery warning! - there were only about 8 people there! Awesome.

@eddiebaby

I love a good McClintock mashup.

Was brilliant. And, ultimate snobbery warning! – there were only about 8 people there! Awesome.

8! Sellouts! I was listening to them before they went big time 😉

I learned my lesson early 80’s as someone who was a snot nosed hardcore punk rocker and found myself loving Sister Sledge (but being too ‘ashamed’ to admit liking it…). Then London Calling came out and i threw off the shackles, **** em you like what you like and everyone else be damned.

I even relented enough to have bought one AC/DC album…

Now obviously my taste in music is fabulous and unrivalled (it goes without saying really).

There’s a lot of mainstream stuff that’s as good as, well, anything. 2020 my favourite for the year was Hania Rani’s Home (definitely prime for elitist with her being piano/keyboards based) but ‘21 my fave track was Olivia Rodrigo’s Jealousy Jealousy.

Last year would have been La Fama by Rosalía. But stuff like Sofi Tucker, Sasami, Phoebe Bridgers, Mitski, Taylor Swift, etc., definitely enriched my listening life. Along with Japanese Breakfast, Bomba Estéreo and The Linda Lindas…

I’m currently in my k-pop phase. NewJeans, Fifty Fifty, Le Sserafim, hell even BLACKPINK (I do personally draw the line at BTS though 🤪) I love them. SO much so my band t-shirt is more often than not NewJeans (not had the courage to sport the pink Bunnies one yet, but that day will come…).

Not elitist, but I’m still pretty snobby about it…

And I genuinely think that the above video is actually high art (the Siri one is dressed like Steve Jobs, the ‘doctor’ referring herself in to the ambulance and breaking the 4th all as examples of stretching the pop video in indie film territory. The side an and side b videos for Ditto also very deep for a pop vid)… Oh, ands I completely forgot, that dance…🙃

And this is just ‘fun’…

Off the back of the Miley Cyrus covers of Metallica and Blondie I downloaded the This Is Miley Cyrus playlist on Spotify. It played through twice on my return trip to Birmingham today. Her voice now sounds a bit Bonnie Tyler, more refined and there's a hint of Beth Hart too.

Oh and @Binners that Blondie cover made a happy man suddenly old 😀

Metallica is that even music.

garage-dweller
Full Member

I liked Newsted’s playing (awaits lunch mob).

TBH I think most people liked Jason's playing just fine, he's a great player- they just didn't like that he wasn't Cliff Burton.... I liked that bit in the documentary, partly the band admitting that they'd been assholes but also realising how damn hard he was to replace.

Best time I've ever seen them live though was after Trujillo joined, they just looked so reenergised- swapping around guitar parts, changing songs, Kirk actually improvising solos and <gasp> screwing up, instead of having rehearsed everything into perfection... And, controversially, looking like they were having fun.

I’m a fan of Metallica’s earlier stuff. I think Master of Puppets is my high point, though (and I know many don’t agree) I think there’s a lot to like on the Black album. At Anger isn’t a bad album, but it’s only really got 1 maybe 2 standout tracks. I’ve not managed to get into the newest one.

One of my favourite tracks from Metallica is I Disappear - the track they did for MI2. It’s a great example of James Hetfield’s vocal skill.

The Miletus cover, whilst good…just makes me want to listen to the original.

There’s a place in my head for S&M as well. It’s a great album to work to.