[Closed] Electrics enthusiasts - PIR switching a basement light

Yes. I wired something like the link below in for my BIL when he redid his bathroom. Wired up to two of the downlighters, so when the kids went in there at night the light came on automatically and more importantly turned off automatically.

All lights turned on and off on the normal pull cord.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/zinc-pir-sensor-360/301fh

Edit: It was basically another switch wired in parallel.

I've had a similar problem in my hallway the entire time I've lived here, the only light switch is at the bottom of the stairs which is bobbins when I'm at the front door in the dark. I finally fixed it last year via a smart light and a motion sensor. No wiring needed.

Cheers folks.

Is that just a smart bulb then cougar?

Well, I went balls-out with Philips Hue in a Black Friday deal a while back and have been dripping extra bulbs in ever since. When I bought it you needed the bulb, the sensor and a central hub. Newer Hue bulbs don't need the hub but AFAIK the motion sensors still do (and they're probably more expensive).

Starting from scratch the cheapest way might be Ikea Tradfri? You're looking at £65 but you've got an infrastructure you can build on and the bulbs are half the price of Philips.

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tradfri-gateway-kit-white-spectrum-60406907/
https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tradfri-wireless-motion-sensor-white-70429913/
https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/koppla-b22-to-e27-bulb-converter-90295615/

Or it'll be Amazon BF again soon, you might well get some Hue bargains.

That PIR will work as you want it but remember you’ll need a neutral connection to it which may not be available at your switch, so you might need some re-jigging.

I did a similar job to the comment above (corridor with no two way switching) using a Quinetic receiver and a couple of switches. More expensive than that PIR obviously but I think maybe more functional for what you need

You can get some bulbs with PIR sensors built in - that might be a lazy option?

You can get some bulbs with PIR sensors built in – that might be a lazy option?

It would be, but the switch operates multiple bulbs along a corridor.

That PIR will work as you want it but remember you’ll need a neutral connection to it which may not be available at your switch

This is what we have at the switch.

Cos my little girl is TINY... she can't reach the toilet light switch (ahhh...)...

I didn't have a neutral in my switch housing (Like you don't)...

But, you can get PIR light switches that replace the current switch, that have a long life 9v battery in them...
IF your current light switch can 'see' (i.e line of sight) to the bottom of the stairs, then you could fit one of them, up the PIR sensitivity on it, and it'll do the job you're after...

DrP

EDIT - this one..
HERE

Yeah you need one more wire in there.

And to shorten the exposed copper... and to put an earthing sleeve on....

You can probably tape a three core and earth to the other end of that wire and pull it through.

Yeah to avoid confusion that black cable isn't a neutral, it's either the live or switched live.

Thanks folks. Good to clarify that I don't know what I'm doing 😂

Thanks DrP. The switch is 90 degrees to line of sight unfortunately so I don't think that would work.

Actually another option would to be put a PIR next to the light?

That would require minimal work and would pic you up from either direction if you require a prolonged session on the dunny.

Actually another option would to be put a PIR next to the light?

How'd you mean exactly? One switch turns on a run of about 6 bulbs along the corridor.

IANAE
Okay so the way your switch currently works it sits between the live wire and the lights which are all connected to the neutral wire of the lighting circuit.

You turn it on makes the live circuit to the lights complete thats why the black isn't neutral at your light switch that black wire should have a bit of brown tape on it BTW to signify switch live. Depending on how it was wired (by the look of the switch... Badly) that might involve connection boxes to achieve it or a string of connections within the lights.

Because there is no neutral the is no power permanently supplied to your switch. A PIR needs power either from the circuit or a battery.

The nearest connection to the lighting circuit is at the light or connection box at the other end of that light switch. If you trace it and wire the PIR there you will have everything you need with out running a new cable all the way to the lightswitch which isn't a perfect place for the PIR anyway.

You would be better with a sparky to be honest especially as this is a commercial property...

Thanks joshvegas. That's really helpful. 👍

What I've seen is that buried behind some of the crap down there (the building owners, not mine) are some working plug sockets.

I think my solution will be to use some pir activated night lights from the plugs, or a plug in security pir light type thing. That'll mean no wiring.

The only issue with those night lights (we have a couple at home) is that the pir hasn't got a wide enough detection angle to work on a corridor so doesn't come on until you're walking past it.

What I could do perhaps is use a short extension lead and point the light along the corridor instead of across it. That small amount of light should be just enough to stop us tripping over on the way to the toilet (which has its own light switch)

Shame you can't seem to get such a plug in light with a pir sensor that you can angle to point where you want it.

Fair enough. Its not actually difficult.

Essentially. Get rid of the lightswitch replace it with a PIR but move the PIR to the other end of the cable.

The wiring of the PIR is dead simple and the instructions that will come with it are normally bang on.

Alternatively... Airrifle and practice shooting the lightswitch

I posed on the security light thread too, but you can get wifi/rf switches which might help.

e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sonoff-E27-Slampher-WiFi-Wireless-Light-Holder-APP-Smart-Switch-433MHz-RF-Remote/264454240793

The RF wall switch can be stuck wherever you like (no wiring)
The wifi/rf lightbulb socket goes in the light.

Then you can switch if off with the wall mount RF switch, or an app/alexa etc.

Another option with smart bulbs is just to put one bulb and two smart switches in, one at each end of the corridor. No faffing with hubs then, they just pair directly. Both hue and tradfri offer this. For hue you need a dimmer kit plus one more dimmer, total outlay £40

I'd run some three core and earth from the existing switch location to the other end of the hall, put a second switch there.
Both switches will need to be 2-way switches.
I've found this site helpful.

It would be, but the switch operates multiple bulbs along a corridor.

How long is the corridor? Will you have issues triggering the PIR from the other end?

I've just thought,

That switch is near a door you don't use, so you've no need for it at all where it is. Can't you simply just move it?

Replace the switch with a junction box, run a length of T&E back down the corridor, terminate it with a switch where you want it.

(Depending on where the existing cable runs you might not even need to do that, it's not chased, it looks like it's mostly paint that's holding it to the wall to start with.)

... or I suppose, if you do see some compelling need to want to switch off the lights mid-thrutch, you could replace that switch with a couple of two-way ones. You'd need to run three-core + earth cable between them for that but it's not complicated.

[EDIT] or exactly what oldnick said and I totally missed.

If you have any electrical sockets around then a night light? Low power, leave it on?

I assume you don't have any electrical sockets in the corridor (or as above a combined light/PIR plug is the easiest option).

If you went down the smart bulb route another option is the Hue remote https://www.philips-hue.com/en-gb/p/hue-dimmer-switch/8718696743157 and just pair it with the smart light in the bulb(s) in the corridor. They're battery powered, the wall thing is just a magnetic holder for it - I have one for my bathroom lights as I didn't want to be asking Alexa to turn them on in the middle of the night if need. You'll still need a Hue bridge (or an Echo with one built in), there's possibly similar solutions from other manufacturers you can do the above without a bridge.

In case anyone is remotely interested. Thanks for the replies.

The simplest solution, without me doing any dubious electrical work and it being a rented building was a simple pir security light plugged in with a timer.

Works great 👍

How my colleague who's been there ten years put up with the situation every winter I don't know...

Thread resurrect for another question for you wonderful electrical experts.

I have just got myself an air dust filter for the woodworking workshop and stuck it up on the ceiling.

I don't have a plug there of course.
Could I simply remove/split off that light socket next to it and wire the air filter onto it instead (if it has an earth) so that it comes on with the lights?

Apologies if this is certain death.

My guess is no, but IANAE

Certain death I'm afraid.

Light circuit 5A

Your dust filter 13A.

You need to get a socket up there from your 13A power circuit.

Yeah, as I inklinged.
Cheers 👍

Should be a problem for someone talented enough to walk on the ceiling.

You actually could as a bit of Googling reveals that it is only a 100W load; this equates to 0.43A at 230V. Such a small motor shouldn't have any significant start-up current either. It does depend on how much load (number & wattage of lights) you have on the existing circuit to ensure it doesn't exceed the fuse/cb rating, but in a small workshop I can't imagine that'd be an issue.
The socket, assuming that's how you connect it, should be labelled up that it's only for the use of the extract unit and not for general consumption. You'll also need to ensure you connect it to the switched live and neutral in the light, depending on how it's wired you might also have a permanent live there (if it's a loop in system), although again that's unlikely.
It might be worth connecting it via an unswitched fused connection unit, or even a double pole switch as a point of isolation, although the plugtop would suffice.

Thanks creaking door.
I just wanged a new 5m cable in the machine and plugged it in on the wall 😊👍

Should be a problem for someone talented enough to walk on the ceiling.

That pesky Lionel Ritchie has been in here again 😡