[Closed] Electricians - How much for a job like this?

I'm not sparky but I've just looked at Armoured Cable to run to my outbuilding and the stuff I need is £50 ish for 10 metres.

I've not had a definite quote, but my mates mate is a sparky and he has told me to run the cables and he will connect and make sure it's safe.

I'm thinking around £150 all in with me buying the cable, sockets and LED lights and whatever he needs to sign it off.

Can't imagine him wanting £500 to sign it off.....

That's a ridiculous amount of money, usual tradesmans trick of not really wanting the job, so quote massive and if it goes through, well tradesman is a winner.

Slat hoofage required.

That does sound like the "go away" price. Or maybe the "I can't be arsed to even think about it so here is a random number" price.

Even if the driveway is to be replaced the cable still needs to be correctly sited and labelled before sign off. You'll need to find a friendly electrician who is willing to let you do some of the donkey work with getting the cable or some conduit laid.

Just to add, the consumer unit may need extra work which could justify a higher price but it might be really simple. Ideally you'll have a spare slot separate from the house RCDs so you can fit a dedicated RCBO for the external circuit.

I have thought about doing what I can the DIY route too.

Unfortunately though I don't have the basic knowledge. I know I need a 63amp rated armoured cable, but on screwfix etc it doesn't rate them that way, you can get different widths of cable too, and different cores. etc.

Unfortunately I don't know any sparkys so I am sure they would just charge over the odds for certifying and work...

Consumer Unit

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It's not a ridiculous amount of money. There's 2 days work there minimum plus more time if the site isn't ready. Day rates vary but lets assume £190 a day. £360 + a day contingency = £570. Materials - lets say £100 and thats conservative - you've now got £670.

But why do we need contingency? - Fault on the consumer unit. Can't readily get access through the wall. Customer decides he wants you to run round getting the bits for him, or supplies his own stuff which is unsuitable. Tons of things from a project management and technical perspective that needs to be covered otherwise you're working for nothing.

Yes, there's some crooks out there, but a job which looks simple can be more complex that it looks.

A quick example - connected up a kitchen extractor a year or so ago. How much? £25? £50? Split the ring, made the connection. Tested ring continuity - broken earth. Took a day and half to track it down to a picture pin through a cable. £25 and theres plenty who ignore it or wouldn't test it in the first place.

Quality and commitment costs.

Rich.

rwamartin - but in essence you are saying you over price every job?

I get that things go wrong and that may mean additional cost.

Could you not say "It's x amount (where x = reasonable cost) but will be y extra if it over runs or i encounter problems"?

DrP

sounds about right to me for a properly skilled and insured fitter. I would DIY it but would expect rather more than £100in materials and expect it to take me more than a couple of days to do properly

Does the quote include digging up the driveway, or had you other ideas of how the cable will get to the garage?

And what about the consumer unit in the garage, is that extra?

It's not a ridiculous amount of money.

Agreed...I price electrical work all the time and would say you could probably get it a bit cheaper, but that is what a professional outfit would normally charge.

You don't need to use armoured cable if you run it in a duct. Might be a saving?

Probably a bit steep but not surprised at the quote.

As with all jobs on your home...get at least three quotes..but don't automatically go for the cheapest. Try to get references and recommendations. Check they have liability insurance and competence. Never hand over cash until work is completed to your satisfaction and in the case of electrical work a certificate for the works.

Seems like a ball ache but if you don't already have a friendly tradesman you trust this is your only option.

Once you've gone through this process and found someone you trust and are happy to have them work on your home, look after them and use them again. They may be able to put you in touch with other trades when you need something else doing.

For reference I'm a electrician but mainly do commercial and industrial. Good luck.

You don't need to use armoured cable if you run it in a duct. Might be a saving?

Cabling is quite cheap (relative) should be less than £50. You can buy a 25m role from screwfix for £50 !

Colster - I know what you mean, unfortunately we don't know any local electricians, and are just having to pick at random!

I love threads like this. On a forum where many people are more than happy to spend thousands of pounds on bikes that offer very little if any advantage (for their particular needs) over ones costing £500 or so, and are often only so expensive because of overinflated prices on cheaply made mass-produced goods, expensive because people then 'believe' they possess something that elevates them above the common herd. But, when it comes to having to have work done (that they generaly can't do themselves) by someone who's paid for themselves to get trained and the necessary qualifications in order to be able to do work that can legally be signed off in order to make it safe from potential hazards such as fires etc, and to satisfy H+S regulations, insurers etc, those same people want it done for peanuts! 😆

Price of everything, value of nothing.

High, but doesn't seem ridiculous. I think we paid gbp130 per socket, plus gbp300 for a new consumer unit when we were adding new sockets to our house. So if he's charging around that I guess that's:

2 sockets
1 lighswitch
1 light fitting
at 130 each is 520, plus laying the cable makes about 700?

I've DIY'd a shed before, but if you don't know how to size cable then it's probably beyond you without doing a lot of reading. You can't just buy 63A cable, it's sold by cross sectional area, a 1m '16A' cable would be a lot thinner than say a 25m '16A' cable, because the calculation works on a maximum voltage drop (i.e. resistance) to the socket. Then there's issues like earthing the garage, if you have a water supply to it, then that may need bonding to the houses earth. i.e. it's not just a case of running an extension lead out there, cutting the end off and wiring it into the spare rcd.

Clodhopper - The reason for the post was to ask if it was a reasonable amount to be charged. It sounds like it might just be the top end of reasonable.

However, to be fair does seam a bloody good daily rate. Mrs FD saves peoples lives for a job, and mends them when they go wrong. If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

However, to be fair does seam a bloody good daily rate. Mrs FD saves peoples lives for a job, and mends them when they go wrong. If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

But does she have to spend one day a week unpaid going around looking for people lives to save, telling them how much it'll cost, then waiting to see if they go and ask another professional who might charge less or lie on his tax return, or maybe they'll decide to see if they an do it themselves? Or have to pay for all her scalpels and thermometers and own ambulance out of her day rate?

I don't want this to descend in to something it should not be, but believe me the costs of doing her job every year is in the multiple of £1,000's. If she was to become self employed that would raise to greater than £10,000

FunkyDunc; not having a go at you personally. Just at the general 'why should menial tradespeople get a decent rate of pay' type attitude that is evident on this and many threads like it. I wonder if those same people would happily do their own jobs for a lot less money...

As for material costs; have you factored in the time spend travelling to and from the suppliers? Vehicle/transportation costs? What about personal running costs; cost of tools and equipment, insurance, etc? There can be a lot of hidden costs that the customer just doesn't see.

As for 'mates rates'; I had a new socket fitted (just running a spur off an existing one) by a mate recently. I could easily have handled the actual job, I just didn't want the hassle and stress. He came with all his stuff and voltage meters etc, did the job in far less time than I would have (because he's far more skilled and experienced), and most importantly, it's all fully signed off according to legal requirements etc. It was a relatively easy job that took him half a day (including him fixing up the holes ready for painting over, which I hadn't expected). I actually had to insist on paying him MORE than what he asked for, because it was so ridiculously cheap! The VALUE to us, having an experienced professional do all the work and for us to not have to worry about it at all, was more than what he charged us. He'll be doing any future work for us, and almost certainly for friends who we'll recommend him to.

He did inadvertently pinch my hammer though, so I might have to dock his fee next time. 😆

One of my general rules is never to work for friends or family. They expect something for nothing and don't understand the implications, lost proper work time, background costs and so on. If I have friends do work work me I'm happy to pay them what they're due and only expect a totally honest job 🙂

Funkydunc - you're confusing cost with pay

I reckon you'll find she actually costs a fortune - add in all the benefits, cost of employment and then the location she's working.

And for this job the Govt is making the most 'profit' 🙂

FunkyDunc; not having a go at you personally. Just at the general 'why should menial tradespeople get a decent rate of pay' type attitude that is evident on this and many threads like it.

If she got a daily rate approaching that she would be over the moon.

Self-employment often means no paid 21 days holiday a year, no paid sick leave, no paid maternity/paternity, no pension, days quoting for work/doing paperwork which don't bring money in, plenty of cancelled jobs meaning days without work etc - and the hidden costs mentioned above.

A 'high' day rate looks a lot lower when you spread it over a year.

(Edit - Sorry, basically irrelevant to the question about the electrical work. Guess who's gone self-employed and is struggling with getting enough work at the moment!)

If you're not going to be running high load appliances from your socket, consider one of these kits.

http://www.splashbox.co.uk/shop/products.asp?c=63

It's not a case of overpricing jobs. Its a case of taking a considered view as to what it might involve, the risks associated with it and come up with a price that will ensure that you make an acceptable profit on the job in question and your working year overall. Fixed price work is a gamble for both parties. For me, I might get hit with problems that leave me out of pocket. I need to mitigate that risk but that to some extent means me loading the price of the job. I can't factor in a massive amount as I'd be uncompetitive but I need to add something. The customer gets a known price but it might end up more than if I'd done it time and materials.

One of the problems is that tradespeople are often seen to be "crooks". And, to be fair, there are some that are. There are also some that are poor businessmen that will undersell their skills which depresses the market and makes the true cost of providing quality service difficult to cover. However, putting the boot on the other foot so to speak, customers can make it difficult for us. I have lost count of the times I've turned up on site ready to do a job to find the customer isn't ready for us - carpenter not finished. Plumber is on site and in our way so we can't work. If I want to make a reasonable living, covering my expenses, pay the mortgage and afford a couple of weeks off with the family I'm going to need at least 4 days a week at my day rate. If I call off a job because the customer isn't ready or I need to do unplanned work I'll be struggling to make up the shortfall. Couple that with non chargeable activities such as doing estimates (some of which are never going to materialise as paying work), office activities, certification etc and you're soon on less than minimum wage.

Obviously I can't and won't justify overcharging or not offering a good standard of quality and customer service, I just think that it's too easy to say that something is expensive when we're not always in a position to know quite what is involved in the actual job.

From an electrical point of view it's quite easy for people to say "I can make that work". Yes, it is easy to get something up and running - fundamentally it's just 2 conductors and an earth. However, I've always said that I'm not in the business of making it work, my business is to make it not work. By that I mean that when a fault occurs it stops working in a safe and graceful manner; not with smoke, flames and the risk of shock to the user. There's a number of factors in the OPs job that need to be considered if it's to be safe and to the regs. The OP should be looking to ask what the electrician is going to do for the money, not necessarily just the price and make his choice on that.

If he's not sure, I'd be pleased to offer my view on what questions he should be asking to help make that decision.

Rich.

If you're not going to be running high load appliances from your socket, consider one of these kits.

From my very limited knowledge I wouldn't use a kit like that. I doubt it could take the load.

I doubt it could take the load.

It just a fancy 13A extension lead...

2 days work my arse, it's a 4 hour job max. I've wired a couple of outdoor buildings with the FIL, and he's not even a spark, he's a tiffy. Anyone taking 2 days to do that is at it.

2 days work my arse, it's a 4 hour job max. I've wired a couple of outdoor buildings with the FIL, and he's not even a spark, he's a tiffy. Anyone taking 2 days to do that is at it.

Ok. List the tasks you'd do in your 4 hours, the decisions you'd make in doing it and the materials you'll be using.

I'll do the same and we can compare what the differences are.

Also, give the OP a price for the work including materials. Again, I'll do the same.

Rich.

I love threads like this. On a forum where many people are more than happy to spend thousands of pounds on bikes that offer very little if any advantage (for their particular needs) over ones costing £500

...and that's why I would just run an extension lead out the window to the shed! Or maybe even drill a hole in the external house wall and thread cable through there and plug in!

I build my bikes up from cheap/sale/2nd hand goods....£000s did you say?!?!

As said above - a self employed person does well if they get paid for 2 out of 3 hours worked and then you have to also account for holidays and sick leave. (28 days minimum btw)

so a self employed daily rate of £200 is really only worth a fully employed day rate of around £120 or less

I pay tradesmen more per day than I get paid as a healthcare worker in a stressful and worthwhile job - why? because I recognise this

(28 days minimum btw)

if you're self employed there is no min (or max) for hols / sick days etc.

Pop along to our local seafront on a windy day and you'll see why the tradesmen need to charge so much and are so hard to get hold of...t5s and windsurfing/kitesurfing gear don't come cheap 😉

It's literally like a page out of checkatrade there at present!!!

DrP

(all made in jest..keep your knickers on!)

To put the issue in another context, I trust VW to service my T5, but I wouldn't want one of their mechanics, as good as they are, checking my prostate. 😉

They would probably do s better job on your prostrate than your T5

I trust VW to service my T5, but I wouldn't want one of their mechanics, as good as they are, checking my prostate.

When you get the bill for the T5 service, you'll find they have dealt with your prostate at the same time. At least it will feel like it.

Do I need to put my rates up? Alternatively I could add another day on FunkyDunc's job....

<sucks teeth>
<scratches head>

Depends - I'm sure his installation falls some way short of current regs. 🙂

Depends - I'm sure his installation falls some way short of current regs

Maybe. I'll check with nobeerinthefridge's FIL....

I've recently been asked to quote for supply and fit some skirting, architrave, 8 doors, door-furniture etc..
Phone call
Site visit
Measure up
Leave door and furniture catalogue.
She doesn't know what skirting so can i bring some samples around.
Take samples
She's decided which doors so can I quote..
No doors in the style she likes in the size needed so phonecalls, Internet etc..
She calls and actually likes a different door..again I have to search for a supplier for the size..phone her up with a price and she says can we do the first doors she liked and change the linings....

You see where this is going..5 hrs in, petrol costs, phonecalls and I haven't got the job yet..

She will then decide that the price is too expensive and tells you she'll buy the doors herself. Books you for Monday to fit them. You turn up. Only one door is on site and that is actually a 2'6" door but the frame size is 2'9".

Day of work lost.

She will then decide that the price is too expensive and tells you she'll buy the doors herself. Books you for Monday to fit them. You turn up. Only one door is on site and that is actually a 2'6" door but the frame size is 2'9".
Day of work lost.

And why can't you reuse the old hinges??

Exactly like that..

Called to fit a couple of 4 panel pine doors a few months ago. Lady already has the doors..gave a price.t back
Turn up
One door is so warped from where she's stored it I had to take it back along with the other that was damaged.
Tubular mortice latches had the wrong size set-back putting the edge of the handle plate over the edge of the stile. Wrong size hinges meaning the doorstops had to be replaced...I charged a bit extra but got nowhere near my day-rate..so basically went to work for a loss.

Oldschool...You're obviously not a craftsman/tradesperson...

Why would you use 20 year old hinges on a new door?

Why would you use 20 year old hinges on a new door?

I think he was quoting the customers words.

Back to the OP - it seems like a reasonable enough quote for a decent tradesman doing the job professionally and taking the risk involved in hooking up to something he's had nothing to do with installing.

I drove a 100 mile round trip early Saturday morning to look at a job with no guarantee of getting it.
I easily spend a full day each week doing 'unpaid' stuff, probably more.
No sick pay.
No paid holidays.
Dangerous work.
Mucky.

But I wouldn't have it any other way 🙂

We paid 350 for a new consumer unit and a new circuit for the kitchen so seems expensive to me. For comparison we also had a quote of 1050 for exactly the same job.

63 Amps?
What are you doing? Fitting Climate control and welding equipment?
Sounds alot but probably isnt really. SWA isnt cheap plus all the neccessary fittings.
You will be paying for a man to screw scews into wallplugs for some of the time . Either accept this as part of the job, or find a friendly sparkie to tell you how many fixings you need and spend time screwing screws in yourself.

tymbian - Member
Oldschool...You're obviously not a craftsman/tradesperson...
Why would you use 20 year old hinges on a new door?

Sorry if it wasn't obvious, but I was taking the pish.
My background is very much craft/trade based.

Sorry oldschool...no offense intended. Didn't get the jist of it.

Just checked my garage is 63 Amps as well. Screwfix do a garage consumer unit for £4o ish , plus sockets , lights , clamps, glands , switches
You getting an alarm as well?

OK. If it was my job then it would look something like this:

Consumer unit in the house. Rework the board so that there is a non RCD protected way in the consumer unit protected by a 40A MCB. There is no need for RCDs on a distribution circuit and it will ensure that there is no nuisance tripping in the house if a trip occurs in the garage. Can't say how I'd get armour to consumer unit as I can't see enough on the picture but would expect a neat, properly glanded job with no single insulaton showing and hopefully some trunking used.

Armoured cable from the house to the garage. Size would be 10mm2 3 core. Big but the cost difference between 2.5mm for a 10-15m run is probably less than 50 quid and it will a) provide more than enough capacity for any future demands. b) ensure that should your earthing system ever change from TNS to PME the cpc will act as a bond and there will be no need to fit an earth rod at the garage. c) its cheaper to do it now than retrofit it in a few years time when you realise you undersized it. Cable should be at a depth of 600mm backfilled 200mm then warning tape over the top. I would either run down your wall and underground all the way or, if digging a trench that far is too much aggro, clip to the surface along the wall and bury the last bit past the steps.

Garage. Metal consumer unit to 2016 regs with properly glanded cable entries that provide fire resistance. Preferably a minimum of a couple of spare usable ways to give capacity for the future. Your choice, but my preference would be a main switch and then 2 RCBOs - 32A for power and 6A for lighting. RCBOs will ensure that if the sockets trip the lights stay on. If you want it a bit cheaper then a 30mA RCD as the main switch and 32A/6A MCBs.

Circuits - 4mm for power run as a radial. 1.5mm for lights. Double switching between back door and front door for lights. Because a garage has lawn mowers, tools etc. being moved around cables and accessories can be vulnerable, I'd run all cables in 20mm round conduit and use metalclad accessories to provide protection fron damage. Arguably over engineered but thats the way I prefer to do things. Others will just run T+E to a socket.

Outside socket so you can vacuum the car without having the door open? Your choice.

Cheap option would be 1 or 2 5' batten lights. However, I would be looking to discuss what your intentions are regarding work surfaces because I'd like to provide the infrastructure now for illuminating them.

First and second fix all cables and accessories. Dead tests (R1R2, Insulation Resistance) Live Tests (Ze, Zs RCD disconnection times). Certificate produced to BS7671 and notification to local Building Control.

Ask whoever quotes you how they'll do the job or tell him what you want as per above.

Watch out for:
a) running it off an MCB which is protected on one of the existing 2 RCDs
b) insufficient sizing of distribution cable
c) using twin and earth rather than armour.
d) plastic garage consumer units and no expansion capacity.
e) no certificates/building control notification.
f) armour not buried deep enough or not properly glanded (armour just cut off, not in a proper gland).

As per my previous post I still think 2 days minimum with a price between £500-£800 is probably what you're looking at. Rates vary area to area so its hard to be specific.

Any issues either post here or email me and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

Rich.

Rich - cheers for that, as I say I'm not questioning the cost, just whether it is ball park, which it looks like it is top end of.

Would be happy for you to quote if you work north Bradford 😀

What are you doing? Fitting Climate control and welding equipment?

The job needs doing right as one of the sockets in the garage will be used to charge a hybrid car, that's at least 32amp by itself.

Ok. That might change things slightly as there are rules about hybrid charging points that I'm not fully up to speed on. I'll take a look later and advise. What might then be required is to split the incoming tails and provide a seperate fused supply across.

Cable sizing might need revising but even if you went for 16mm armour I don't think it would be prohibitively expensive over that distance.

Rich.

Rich - why would it change anything?

The car just plugs in to a normal 3 pin socket.

I was looking at a dedicated charge point but didnt think it was worth the extra £200 cost for saving 1hr of charge time.

The existing quote I have is from a company that install charge points, and they are only quoting for 1 cable, 1 Non RCD Protected 2 way consumer unit, mcb protect 63amp cable, consumer unit in garage with mcbs for lighting, sockets, end EV non RCD.

2 x 2 sockets, LED strip lighting.

Anyhow, don't waste your time on this, if your not based around my way.

A quick internet search brings this up [url= https://chargemasterplc.com/for-home ]ChargeMaster[/url]

I'm assuming you're looking at something similar to the 7kW system. 7kW is just over 30A so you could go with my initial design although I'd probably look to put a slightly bigger MCB in - 50A if it's available. You'd probably be fine with a 40A MCB but for when you're charging the car and using the electric lawn mower from the outside socket.

In the consumer unit in the garage I'd add an additional RCBO specifically for the charging point. 32A should do it but you could go up to a 40, but only if you've got something bigger than 40 in the main board.

A neater solution would be to insert an isolator after the meter, then split the cables so that one set goes to the existing consumer unit and the other set via a fused isolator (KMF80 or equivalent) out to the garage. Get an 80A main fuse fitted by your electricity supplier and a 60A fuse in the isolator. 16mm armour to the garage and you could weld to your heart's content whilst charging the car. (10mm may be ok but it's a fraction undersized if you have a 63A fuse which are more common - I need to do some calculations to confirm it.).

If possible get the spec. of the charging point you're planning to use and show this to your electrician. He should be able to articulate the design he'll use to satisfy the requirements. If he can't or won't then look elsewhere.

EDIT.
Just seen your post above. If you're not using a charging point, just a 13A socket then you'd be good to go with my first design. If you might change your mind in the future then do the futureproofing now.

paid for themselves to get trained and the necessary qualifications in order to be able to do work that can legally be signed off in order to make it safe from potential hazards

This is one of those things that annoys me. There's nothing magical in a piece of paper that somehow makes either an installation or installer "safe".

I'm also amazed at the number of people who won't work on electrics (one death per decade or so) but will happily work on their car (a handful of deaths per year).

It proves that the installation or whatever part was worked on is safe. Ie, the full complement of tests were done and no corners were cut and the work was carried out by someone with relevant experience and qualifications.

I'm happy that unskilled people are scared to work on electrical installations, after the horrific diy bodge jobs that I've seen over the years. It might only be the odd death by electrocution but how many house fires etc are caused by loose connections and overloaded cables?

"This is one of those things that annoys me. There's nothing magical in a piece of paper that somehow makes either an installation or installer "safe"."

Maybe not, but it does signify that the person has at least attended proper training and been shown how to do things properly and safely, and hopefully indicates they are knowledgable about potential hazards etc, rather than some cowboy who thinks they know what they're doing/is after a quick buck.

As per my previous post I still think 2 days minimum with a price between £500-£800 is probably what you're looking at. Rates vary area to area so its hard to be specific.

But you seem to have factored in trench digging but the OP said he was getting driveway redone.

The bottom line with the original £600 quote is it depends on exactly what activities they are actually doing for that money. It it includes fitting out the garage then it is better value than just terminating a cable into consumer units at eitherend.

One option for OP is to do get the driveway contractor to lay a roped smoothwall 50mm duct from house to garage, then you don't have the hassle of co-ordinating the civil and electrical contractors.