Electricianists - help me to not die

The sensors usually have an on off switch, or just go to Screwfix and replace the light. It's just unscrewing wires. Not a difficult task. 

Remove the lamp (bulb, call it what you will)

Although it doesn’t answer your question, my workshop floodlight started doing that. It turned out to be spiders living between the cooling fins of the light, every now and then they ventured out for a bit of a swing around in front of the sensor! I moved them with compressed air and a soft brush. It took me a couple of times as some spiders are quite small….. but it’s been ok for months now. Hope this helps.

Simplest is whack one of these on each core. https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-222-series-32a-2-way-lever-connector-50-pack/97689

Or whack each core in a strip of this https://www.screwfix.com/p/16a-12-terminal-terminal-strips-10-pack/91532

Not an electrician but I'd just terminate with an old fashioned juntion box or wago connectors. Then when you want to wire in the light again it's an easy job.

Is it 13A lighting circuit or 32A socket circuit. Make sure you get the correct rated wago connectors/junction box. TBH I'd just go for 32A and be done with it.

Not sure if you can get Wago's indivdually as you'll only need three two ways.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-221-series-32a-2-way-lever-connectors-100-pack/8421r

Old school
https://www.screwfix.com/p/30a-3-terminal-junction-box-white/5866d

Or this may be a neater solution
https://www.screwfix.com/p/debox-32a-junction-box-35-x-47-x-107mm-white/970gv

If its a non built in LED, like timba said remove the bulb, you will probably still hear the annoying 'click' of the PIR switch.  Well could with ours.

Sounds like you want it replaced - you could give it a go yourself.  It'll be 3 wires.  Maybe even 2 if not earthed.

If not and its going to be sat for some time before it gets fixed I'd use a wago box and connects to terminate it, these can be easily removed when you want to reconnect

Make sure you know for sure which circuit it is on and isolate it before you fiddle.  If its an outdoor light it could be linked to anything, start with the nearest lighting circuit.  If in serious doubt turn off the whole box before you try

Important to point out.

with the connectors, you want a separate one for each wire!  apologies if that was obvious 🙂

Thanks all. I'd give it a go myself but it's a long way off the ground so a quick fix in the loft seemed a good solution for now !

apologies if that was obvious

Nothing is obvious to me 🙂

Sounds like you want it replaced – you could give it a go yourself.  It’ll be 3 wires.  Maybe even 2 if not earthed.

A separate PIR will be a bit more complicated, but not too difficult once you work out what's where.

If the OP isn't knowledgeable then an electrician is always the safest route

Good point assumed it was a built in light/PIR unit like mine.  If not, and its a seperate sensor it might be easier to access, and just replace the sensor with a new one to see if it fixes the light

electrician is safest, but stuff like this is very much diyable and pretty easy even for a novice.  I've ended up doing quite a lot of work because you simply can't get them to turn up, and they only operate in multiples of £200, even for an hours work

You could take this opportunity to cable in the switch you want.

You could take this opportunity to cable in the switch you want.

Yes - that was what I thought!

assumed it was a built in light/PIR unit

Yes it is.

This is the thing in question:

( How does the round junction thing work - just unscrew the top? )

How does the round junction thing work – just unscrew the top?

Just pops off, flatblade screwdriver would help.

That looks like an old halogen lamp thing, you should change it for a LED one, will save a fortune, 20W vs 250Watts!

ooo that might make things even easier - I would expect the PIR light to be connected to the circuit wire inside that box.  So it would be a matter of disconnecting the light wires (its probably on a live and neutral) and terminating the wire from the house (with those wago connectors or terminal crimps)   You would probably be fine leaving it as is until you have a new light fitted.  maybe a blob of sealent on the hole unlikely water will get in from underneath though.

as for removing the top of the box, not seen one of those before, but the square ones are normally just clipped closed, can be quite stiff and you may need a screwdriver to open it.  Or some have a couple of screws.  Should be obvious when you get close

looks like it was well fitted btw which should give you some confidence in changing it.

You might find the terminal box is full of water.  When my lights failed its because of water ingress.

turn the circuit off before you open the terminal even if you aren't planning on touching the wires.

Assuming you don't want to replace it the best bet is to trace the cable in the loft back to where it is taking its live feed from. This may well be an existing ceiling rose, where it's possible to see the cable and disconnect it completely. Alternatively you might trace it back to a switch (depending on how the lighting circuit has been wired), again it'll be simple to disconnect the feed to the floodlight. No live ends of cables in the loft then.

IAAE

Edit

You might find the terminal box is full of water.  When my lights failed its because of water ingress.

That'd just trip the breaker/rcd

I just replaced mine which looked like that, water ingress made it flash all night.  I got the led one from wickes which fitted the same screw holes in the wall.  As it's exposed to weather I just spray a bit of oil on it, last one lasted 20 years so can't complain.

Assuming you don’t want to replace it the best bet is to trace the cable in the loft back to where it is taking its live feed from.

Aha - I had assumed it was going back to the consumer unit but your comment makes more sense! Unfortunately the loft is an absolute dog's breakfast with boarding and insulation done at different times.

Climbing up a ladder as far as I dare, I see some adjustment dials on the bottom of the sensor. After some Googling these seem to be sensitivity, light, and time, so I turned them all to minimum to see if that helps!

Frustratingly, I'm sure this would be DIYable at ground level, but breaking a leg (or worse) for the sake of a 20 quid light feels wrong!!

So - supposing I wanted to fit a switch between the light and the ?ceiling rose? it's connected to, what switch should I get (the cable is just lying on the boards in the loft)?

Really appreciate the help, BTW !!

I doubt that will fix it, if it was fine before and has now gone haywire its probably got water inside it.  There has been quite a bit falling out of the sky recently!

you might be lucky, or it may dry out a bit to work ok till the next prolonged rain.  best to replace with a modern led unit.

you may just be able to get someone in who is a 'handy man' to replace that than a qualified electrician.  It is straight forward, apart from the working from a ladder bit!

I doubt that will fix it

I doubt it too, but if by chance it would reduce the light til I get a replacement unit that would help me sleep undisturbed 🙂

‘handy man’

Good idea.

I fitted swtched fused spurs to my outside lights.  Just swap out the fuse for the right rated one for the light

LAP 13A Switched Fused Spur with Neon White - Screwfix

someone on here did point out that if there is a fault with the light, switching it off, or pulling the fuse doesn't isolate the light complete, so some faults could still cause tripping at the consumer unit.

OR you could use a switch that is used for bathroom fans, 3 pole isolator I think they are called

You would just fit a surface box and the switch anywhere that is convienent in the loft - screw it into a rafter and make sure the cables are tidy so they can't get pulled (dunno what you loft is like, but you want avoid unclipped cables where you might walk).  Wires should also be above insulation, though if you replace with LED the draw will be tiny

Given your lack of electrical confidence I'd be concerned you even know which circuit it is on for isolation. Have you identified the breaker?

Given your lack of electrical confidence I’d be concerned you even know which circuit it is on for isolation. Have you identified the breaker?

I'd switch the whole lot off 🙂

So – supposing I wanted to fit a switch between the light and the ?ceiling rose? it’s connected to, what switch should I get (the cable is just lying on the boards in the loft)?

Then cut the cable (I’ve got these - really good! https://www.screwfix.com/p/c-k-wire-stripper-10-1-4-265mm-/97204) & install switch. Best one to use IMO is something like this as it also functions as an enclosure. Handy indicator light also! You’ll want Wagos as mentioned above (they’re very useful to have anyway). https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-general-ip66-20a-1-gang-2-way-weatherproof-outdoor-switch-with-neon/54649

If you have any concerns just do some google research on safety/best practices etc. It’s not rocket science though. If you can fix a bike you can safely do DIY electrical work! 😀 (if you struggle to change a tube though I’d get someone in 😂)

Then cut the cable

This can still trip the RCD as you can get N -> E leakage. The isolator only isolates L in UK consumer units (in France it isolates both L and N).

30A 3-TERMINAL HEAVY DUTY JUNCTION BOX BLACK (7552D)

One of those

Switch off unit at main breaker. Switch loads of circuits on then off to ensure nothing live.

Venture into loft with 2 X torches and snips .

Cut wire all way through.

Strip back outer sheaf approx 8cm

Insert into j box then screw the insulation into each pole .  Don't strip back the individual wires , no need.

You should then be able to rotate the cap to blank off the outlet slots .

Double safety.... wrap abit of insulation tape round it .and secure to wall

Has anyone suggested just sticking a load of gaffer tape on the sensor yet?

Has anyone suggested just sticking a load of gaffer tape on the sensor yet?

Do you take me for a fool ?  🙂 🙂  Unfortunately that just makes it think it's night, and it turns on regardess of whether there's any burglars or dogs in the field of view.

Insert into j box then screw the insulation into each pole .  Don’t strip back the individual wires , no need.

Damn - that's so obvious but I would have been hamfistedly stripping back the wires in the dark 🙁

This can still trip the RCD as you can get N -> E leakage. The isolator only isolates L in UK consumer units (in France it isolates both L and N).

presumably double-checking with the live-tester would pick this up if it was an issue?

No as live will be isolated and the residual voltage induced in the neutral cable will be too low to light up the Neon bulb, but enough to trip the RCD.

NB There's no actual danger as the voltage is too low, it's just a PITA as you're in the loft snipping what you think is an 'isolated wire' and you trip the whole house...

NB Not as much fun as snipping a wire which isn't isolated at all - all my side cutters have notches in the blades from when I've pulled the wrong isolator and cut through a live cable! You get a large bang, big flash and knacker the blades on yet another pair of cutters as you get a ridiculously large arc current for a few ms before either the RCD or the fuse trips!

This is the thing in question:

Your neighbours must love you, unless you live in half an acre. That wants angling downwards by about another 60 degrees.

Your neighbours must love you

Neighbours? This is where the light points...  🙂

  🙂

Most of our security lights are at a lower level, except on, that's a bit like the OP's. Fortunately, this was fitted by an electrician, spurred off the mains plugs, but has a switch - good job as it eventually went faulty, so I leaned out or a window, removed it, and fitted a new one slightly easier to reach from the window - you aren't getting me up ladders.

Sounds identical to my back light.  I was more bothered about paying for electricty than the social issue though.

I replaced mine last weekend.  Pretty straightforward other than having both a switched live feed & live feed to the old light.  It didnt matter where i looked i couldnt find one with similar connections, just the normal l/n/e.  Quite handy to be able to either have it working as a security/PIR light or override and just turn it on.

Anyhow i wired in the switched live and terminated the live as i prefer to be able to turn it off in future for situations like DrJ's

Neighbours? This is where the light points… 🙂

Fair.

Also, bastard.

😁

Your neighbours must love you, unless you live in half an acre. That wants angling downwards by about another 60 degrees.

Always point your security lights downwards, keeps their minds on the job. OP's light has clearly spotted a porch light a few miles away and is trying to woo it in Morse.

Is it me, or is there a really small palm tree growing out of the top of that really big tree?

There are 2 sticky bits to this

• working at height
• ensuring the electric supply is isolated

The first is more of an issue if the second hasn;t been done. Replacing a light sugh as this is REALLY simple, if you know the wires are not live: t's really just a case of unscreing the case to access the terminals and undoing wires, then swapping in the new unit and reversing the operation. I've done ours, but then I KNOW what circuit it's on so I was happy that nothing was live. Good luck but as said above, if you cutting the wire in the attic to terminate it, then don't, put a switch in place.

Nearly a page and no one's mentioned the paintwork

I'm shocked

There are 2 sticky bits to this

working at height
ensuring the electric supply is isolated

and being up an alumnium (conductive) ladder working on electrics - not ideal really.

Although that has never stopped me. NB I find trainers are excellent isolators.

In a different life I used to have to fit outside lights, the pir probably has spiders or water in it.
In all honesty I’d probably just disconnect it and sling a few LED Solar powered units up at a serviceable height.

Nearly a page and no one’s mentioned the paintwork

I’m shocked

This place is slipping 🙂

Is your fence the latest Mercedes model?

+1 on spider web.  After ages blaming foxes or cats realised it was combined wind and rain made wet spider web swing in front of sensor.

Replaced quite a few old halogen floods at my mums house over the last 5+ years - DONT buy the cheapest of the cheap LED replacements because as you'd expect they're crap and fail quickly.   The Luceco ones I got seemed better than the others

https://www.screwfix.com/p/luceco-castra-outdoor-led-floodlight-with-pir-sensor-black-30w-3150lm/826kj