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In a 20yo house (actually in the garage, but connected to the house), I have plastic bodied Proteus consumer unit, protected by an 30mA RCD. There are 10 MCBs on the rail.
We are having an electric shower fitted.
One of the MCBs is solely used for the electric garage roller door, for which we never use the electric function and we always operate it manually as this allows us to lock it too. I would like to have the 16A MCB for the garage door removed and replaced with a 45 or 50A MCB for the shower. The replacement MCB costs £4.08 inc VAT.
The installer want to replace the plastic bodied consumer unit with a metal bodied one for £650 +VAT.
I am aware the the 18th Edition regs call for new CU installs to have metal bodied consumer units, but is it legal to have an electrician simply disconnect an unused circuit on my current CU, remove the MCB, and replace the MCB with one of the correct rating, and connect it to a replacement circuit?
I am worried I am being price gouged as the same installer is charging £450 +VAT for a 12m run of 10mm2 cable to the shower.
Our sparks charges 500+vat for a unit change and cert. (South east)
Does the 450 include making good any holes he might have to make etc? (If he does indeed need to make any)
There’s a few reasons like thermal damage or a poor ip rating to replace the board, but it being plastic isn’t one of them. Id suggest trying another electrician.
And on ‘price gouging’ for the shower work, it annoys me when I see this on here, just remember that’s how much that electrician wants to do the job, you are under no obligation to accept that quote
Has he had to install a new circuit to the shower? If so then yes, new CU.
Alternatively you can probably get some cowboy to do it for you, sure 10kW to a shower is fine to **** about with.
On 450+ for the run, how much is that in materials, cutting, running, making good, connecting and maintaining qualifications, insurance etc? 12m sounds like a bawache depending on how many walls and floors that has to run through.
Are all the MCB slots in use?
New MCBs are cheap as chips so you could just put the shower on it's own MCB, a new higher amp one of required?
Then you'd still have functionality of the garage door?
Sorry, didn't mean to cause offence. When I looked at the prices, my gut feeling was that the electrician sub-contracted by the installer (who is subcontracted by a national DIY chain) maybe didn't want the job.
Electrical Certification was £120 +VAT on top.
Board £650 +VAT
Cable £450 +VAT
Certificate £120 +VAT
£1404 total.
New MCBs are cheap as chips so you could just put the shower on it’s own MCB, a new higher amp one of required?
Nope, new circuit so has to be done to new regs including work to bring to standard.
@troutwrestler is that the price he gave you direct, or from the diy chain? I occasionally install kitchens for b&q and wickes, and they slap admin fee's on everything.
It is the price direct from him. The retailler knew nothing about it. As far as they knew the only extra he had informed them of was the 120 +VAT for certification. They have raised a concern about some of the prices - the total for his extras came to just shy of £6000 - , the fact they were out of the loop, the fact that he is charging +VAT on top of prices that exceed their maximum, the 90% upfront, and the fact that he only dropped it on us yesterday when the install is scheduled for Monday. He should have given us the quote 14 days after we innitially booked the install in mid November '23.
The shower circuit can be added to an auxillary metal bodied Shower CU in addition to the current CU. After query on full new CU he has quoted 400 +VAT for additional shower CU.
The 12 m run is from the back of the CU, through the block wall (existing hole) follow existing cables (upstairs lighting & ring main) to attic. 3m across attic (boarded), then vertically down inside partition wall to point of shower.
The "guide price" from the DIY chain was £280.
Can the diy store supply anyone? They should have a few on their books. I guess the short notice is going to be an issue.
6 grand... Flipping heck..
I'd want that to include the the shower and and a new boiler thrown in for that sort of money!
I'd find another guy to do it!
One of their suggestions today was to postpone the install and proceed with a new installer. I have no reason to doubt the quality of the work, it is now more trust thing as the retailler also has concerns regarding the timing, some of the high pricing, and contravening their terms by not communicating via the retailler's portal, therefore taking them out the loop, adding VAT and the payment terms.
Short notice is exactly the issue.
Nope, new circuit so has to be done to new regs including work to bring to standard.
I don't think that's the case, otherwise anyone having solar or an EV charger fitted is going to need new consumer units.
I'd absolutely not trust someone who was trying to take the phish on price. If he/she/it has now significantly reduced the price then clearly they WERE gouging to begin with.
Dropping a big cost on you with sod all notice to make it a stress-purchase is shameful and devious. I'd not trust them to put my dog-egg-filled wheelie bin out to be emptied by the council dust men, never mind let them in the house and **** about with my wiring.
Me ? Absolutely 100% I'd defer and get someone else in.
Yeah.. Sounds like they are totally pulling your pants down.
Cut and run... Find someone else.
Apologies, it does sound like you're being stiffed, that's crazy money!
I don’t think that’s the case, otherwise anyone having solar or an EV charger fitted is going to need new consumer units.
When I got my extension done under 17th edition I had to get a new consumer unit when they installed the new circuit (it was an old fuse box so quite happy to).
But it looks like I'm wrong, unless the OP has a board without MCBs as I think that would definitely be non compliant. The correct type of RCDs also help.
I'm not going to comment an whether a new consumer unit is strictly required in a private situation as opposed to a commercial/rental situation..
But even if it is, a new consumer unit is about £100... they are not complicated to swap out, but obviously you'll want a qualified sparky to do it, so , plus £100 labour? it's probably only an hours work..
Or if you have a big complicated house, a fancy one is about £180
Get a second opinion.
If it's an 'emergency' (I reckon I could cope with washing at the sink for a couple of weeks) is it something covered by your house insurance perhaps?
it’s probably only an hours work.
Ain't no sparky quoting anyone an hour to change a board.
Ain’t no sparky quoting anyone an hour to change a board.
That's true, but the guys been quoted 6 grand to wire in a power shower... it's ridiculous, it's beyond ridiculous.
But even if it is, a new consumer unit is about £100… they are not complicated to swap out, but obviously you’ll want a qualified sparky to do it, so , plus £100 labour? it’s probably only an hours work..
System design (might not be a lot on a common system) and order/collect a new consumer unit all takes time before you start.
Then there's the swap, assuming that's straight forward; drive to property. Old one out, correct disposal that the electrician pays for and spends time doing.
Fit the new one to the wall. 10 MCBs (or whatever), plus neutrals, plus "earths"
A list of tests, results noted. Energise system, some more tests using kit that you've bought, paid for and spend time recalibrating every year. Certificate, inform local authority (Part P) - more time spent
Clean up, drive home, bill, bank gradually dwindling money, do annual accounts
I reckon that's a good hour 🙂
Pay the 6 grand then.. No skin off my nose..
Good luck & have fun!
It isn't 6 grand just for the shower. The shower install was about £1400.
The 6k covers additional install costs across 2 bathrooms being installed where we have already paid over 6k for installation, so this latest addition doubled the insulation cost.
Some of the other items were PVC panels on the ceiling £100 +vat per m2, laying click lvt flooring at £50 +vat per m2 and replacing plasterboard behind new wetwall panels at £42 +vat per m2.
The main concern was the prices exceeded the "guide prices" we'd been given.
We have already paid direct to the retailer for the materials - wetwall, sanitary ware, taps, shower etc. We'd bought a shower tray and enclosure separately as they didn't do the size we needed.
We had also paid the retailer for "Installation", but these extras are "Specialist Works" that are to be paid to the installer, plus other things we'd asked for like the ceiling panels. The panels were the first to be scored off the list.
it’s probably only an hours work..
I've rewired houses so have some experience doing this. I still paid a proper electrician to change a consumer unit for me. He also did a full safety check. Took him most of a day. A good few years ago now £400
Self employed tradesmen will be lucky if half the hours they work are chargeable
Pay the 6 grand then.. No skin off my nose..
Good luck & have fun!
You mean your not going to swoop in as a qualified person to fit his new consumer unit and charge him for 1hour.
2005 house here, plastic bodied CU (two of them ) fitted. Had a pod point fitted to the outside of the house and no new box required. All done in an hour.
I paid £67.99 for a consumer unit from Screwfix and got a fully qualified pal from work (with a PhD 😂) to swap ours for the cost of a nice meal for him and his wife. It took him about 2 hours to swap over from an old fuse box including testing etc.
edit: actually about 3 hours.
I had a shower fitted as part of a bathroom renovation after the bath burst maybe ten years ago, I'd never had one before. IIRC the cost of the shower on top of the insurance claim was in the high hundreds and I didn't even have a CU, they had to fit one.
I paid £67.99 for a consumer unit from Screwfix and got a fully qualified pal from work (with a PhD 😂)
I have a PhD in electronics. I paid a qualified electrician to replace my consumer unit. He did excellent work and was busy all day. Full test and EIC certificate notified to building control.
Each to their own.
I have a PhD in electronics. I paid a qualified electrician to replace my consumer unit. He did excellent work and was busy all day. Full test and EIC certificate notified to building control.
Not sure what your point is. I got all that too. Just pointing out that the prices quoted above are absolutely ridiculous. Of course it all depends how much of a mess the wiring is beforehand as that’ll make a big difference in labour. Fortunately had a very neatly wired (ancient) fuse box so it was a simple swap.
Apologies, I did actually miss my point out 😂. It cost £700 quid. My point was that’s a fair price for the work done.
After speaking with the retailer there has been a blanket readjustment in price today to £3600ish. I have been told this by the retailer.
I have emailed for confirmation.
Cable, consumer unit and certificate is £1170.
a new consumer unit is about £100… they are not complicated to swap out, but obviously you’ll want a qualified sparky to do it, so , plus £100 labour? it’s probably only an hours work..
Can somebody check up on @markspark please? I think he may be having a seizure... 😉
Had a pod point fitted to the outside of the house and no new box required.
Entirely possible... scroll to figure 5 on page 5 (or 6 depending on how you count a page)
Certificate probably only covers the new installation, which doesn't touch the existing consumer unit. The installer might have suggested its replacement though
All done in an hour.
As above; the installer was only in your house for an hour
I don’t think that’s the case, otherwise anyone having solar or an EV charger fitted is going to need new consumer units.
We had solar installed last year, they just put a new MCB in the estisting plastic consumer unit.
Conversely we had solar installed in 2022 and they insisted on replacing the CU with a metal one. The previously fitted EV charger (2017) was in its own separate little metal case. When the CU was replaced, the EV charger fuse/isolation moved to the new CU. That is, as far as I know, the only way they can get away with not replacing the CU.
I have decided to go with the new CU at £650, but no VAT. It will be a bigger CU with spare slots for if we go EV or Heat Pump at some point in the future.
2013 rewire in plastic box here.
Our solar and our back up circuits are all in aux metal boxes tied back into Henley's.
No one ever mentioned the plastic box being an issue (3 separate contractors and electrical certs )....But my board was full already so they had no choice but to go aux box.
TroutWrestler
I have decided to go with the new CU at £650, but no VAT. It will be a bigger CU with spare slots for if we go EV or Heat Pump at some point in the future.
Much better price.
To be fair getting rid of the rcd main switch is probably for the best as if one circuit is in fault everything will be off. Also my interpretation of the regs is you can’t fit duel rcd boards anymore, you’ve got to use rcbo’s, which is a better way of doing it anyway.
Be interesting to see what faults pop up that need rectifying before it’s switched back on, because it doesn’t seem like any testing is being done before it’s replaced
Today the fitter has identified that all the copper pipework and the earth circuit is slightly live! It doesn't shock, but his magic pen thing lights up. The electrician is going to have to get to the bottom of that too...
My LAP circuit tester lights up on things it shouldn't do. A kitchen we did last year had loads of dodgy wiring in it, so we were using the pen and multimeter on everything. The pen lit up on the metal crossbrace on the new kitchen units... that were outside on the drive.
We now no longer trust the pens!
We now no longer trust the pens!
Can always just use a Multimeter to see what the actual voltage / current is.
Yeah I don't trust pens. Multimeter every time.
How do I do it with the multimeter? Normally I might test brown to blue, looking for 230v, but what would i earth the Earth to?
If you see something unexpected on a non-contact tester (voltage pen) then it needs checking, your fitter is correct.
It has to be said that pens are fallible www.voltstick.com/how-to-av/videos-and-blogs/voltstick-false-readings
You can get a fault to earth and some are complex to sort so don't touch and ask your electrician