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Looking for some real world experience of electric cars. Have an opportunity to replace the wife’s car with a VW eGolf for less than the current monthly cost of her PCP. The PCP comes to an end soon and this looks like the best replacement option.
It will be used for school run and commuting and any trips we do locally at the weekend. We will still have my car for longer trips and holidays etc. Can get a charger installed for the house and the overnight tariff comes in pretty good at about 1pm’s per mile.
Any real world experience and pros/cons. Still a little concerned about range and issues with recharging in the go although I think that will not be a major issue as we don’t often do 100 miles without returning home!
I have been running a Renault Zoe for almost 12 months and love it.
EVs are very easy to drive.
I get more than 150 miles range which is more than enough.
Charging away from home seems to vary depending on where you live. I am in Scotland where most chargers are on one network, very easy. I believe that the situation elsewhere in the UK is more complex.
Go for it and enjoy.
If you have somewhere to park with easy access to a power socket (or installed charger) then do it.
You have nothing to loose, and everything to gain!
(4 years with an i3 here 😉
Car will be parked on the drive which runs along the side of the house where the plug in point will be installed so very easy to charge overnight. No issues there.
All good here. Kia Soul.
Range drops in Winter.
Nice to drive etc. Going on to EDFs cheaper evening and weekend tariff very soon.
Looking for some real world experience of electric cars. Have an opportunity to replace the wife’s car with a VW eGolf for less than the current monthly cost of her PCP. The PCP comes to an end soon and this looks like the best replacement option.
The eGolf is a good solution, but it's being replaced next year with the ID.. and it'll be a far better vehicle than the eGolf... by a looooong way.
I'd (ID) wait until thats released.
IMO, obvz.
3 years with a basic 24kwh leaf here. Good car but range is awful - however its only a second car and even though it has a useful range of 70 miles it does 95% of what I need it for.
Pros: Cheap, reliable (so far), lovely to drive, bigger than it looks.
Cons: Range is gash, Nissan build quality and design, no towbar option
We have a 24kwh leaf charge it to 80% over night 1 or 2 times a week . Gives 65 miles range drops abit in winter 4 miles lost to running the heater. Costs 2-3p per mile on house electricity and we sometimes park and charge for free. Only just costs more than cycling to work.
I've been driving a Zoé 40 for two and a half years. I've just ordered the new fast charge Zoé 50. Delightful cars. There's a real WTF moment when you get back in a normal car.
Range depends on driving style. Even with a 50kW charger there's not much point going faster than the trucks on the motorway because the time you save going faster you spend charging. Since we've owned the 41kWh Zoé we've averaged 12.5kW/100km which give an average range of 328km (you'd be daft to use the last 30km unless you are certain the next charge point is working). The 395km claimed for the 52kWh car is entirely plausible. This is in small town France, you won't get the same on British roads. In Winter we've been down to 250km and driving as fast as legal on an autoroute limited at 110/130 just to see what happened flattened the battery in 130km.
The first year of ownership the charge points were so far apart we had to plan routes carefully but there are more charge points than petrol stations around here now (Mobive if you visit France).
I am aware the ID is coming out but looking at £200 a month all in (servicing, tyres etc). Will be a company car but from april 0% bik.
I am not a car lover but I have a soft spot for my Tesla Model 3. It has a towbar so will carry bikes and seems desperate to please. It’s stupidly fast, tells you where and when you will need to charge before you start long trips and we’ve not needed significantly longer to do them (bought it and drove straight to the Alsace from Yorkshire). Super comfy both as driver and passenger. Tesla seem to have worked out how to make EV ownership intuitive. I’ve tried a few other brand chargers and they will work but there seems to be quite a bit of faff involved. This will, no doubt, improve in time. Go for it, it changes how you think about travel and that’s good.
I’ve just ordered the new fast charge Zoé 50
edukator didn’t know they were taking orders, been waiting for the local dealer to start taking them. Have you a delivery date?
Leaf owner for a couple of years now. We fight over who gets to drive it, and sitting in a petrol car now just feels like a step in the wrong direction.
Longer journeys can be a bit trickier, but day-to-day stuff is grand.
If you have a look at Zap Map for your area you'll get an idea of where the public charging is (and which network mgiht be most useful).
I looked at the eGolf and thought it was underpowered for what I need ie my commute is 40 miles a day at 60mph
If you are just pootling around town it will be a very nice place to be and a joy to drive compared with a combustion engine.
Charging isn’t an issue just do it every night at home, but it does literally have to be a local journey car. IMO the infrastructure isn’t there yet to do weekends away etc
24kw leaf lover here. My wife does 27 miles a day commute, she charges every second day but could do three days. We find the range is fine been a few trips from Edinburgh to Carlisle in it. Once you know where to charge it's a doddle to live with. It's our second car because we have a dog and two kids. Love driving it generally but in a city it's a real pleasure.
I'd love an electric estate next with realistic 120mile range. That would be our perfect car.
We have two leafs at work. Love them.
Bogging design the original, but looks ain't everything!
OP. Your range anxiety is normal but once you get in the mindset of an electric car and running the battery down where with a petrol you'd fill it at half then you'll be a convert. My friend got an EGolf. He loves it.
The driving style is the big challenge. To get anywhere near the range they tell you, you need to be driving smoothly. I reckon everyone should have a lesson in an electric car, the regen braking is a great thing for teaching you about fuel conservation generally. I think you drive your petrol cars smoother having driven electric. Do it.
27/01/2020, devbrix. Without fast charge it would have been earlier.
Just a question, why haven't manufacturers standardised on a particular plug system yet? The number of points on the Zapmap impressed me at first, then a noticed all the different charger types. Madness.
As it’s not been mentioned so far, and it’s getting to that time of year, enjoy a pre-heated car (if you set off at regular times).
They have, mos. It's Euro Combo from now on in theory. In France at least that will work with just about every public charge point except a few old ones in Charante and Alsace. It's compatible with Type 2 which has dominated up till now.
Yup Type 2 is king pretty much all manufactures use them.
Watch out for pedestrians stepping out because they don't look. I've had a few close calls.
Do it. Absolutely.
We're in a similar boat, we have a petrol estate car which we still use for longer journeys and holidays etc, and bought a used Soul EV about a year ago. I use the EV for commuting and it is always the first car we take for local journeys at weekend etc.
I think I've used public charging points about three times when I have done a couple of longer round trips, they are pretty straightforward if you plan ahead and look up the available charging points before hand. Overall compared to visiting a petrol station every week or two it is way less hassle than my diesel was before.
Tax is obviously zero, my "major" service this year cost £99 at a Kia dealer, which included a brake fluid change, wash and vac, and a big software update including adding Apple Carplay and Android Auto.
As above pre-heating in winter is brilliant.
And besides the costs and environmental upsides, they are just so much easier/more relaxing to drive, once you've lived with one especially with a home charger, anything diesel/petrol just seems really primitive with all that wasted noise and heat, all those moving parts and having to visit a special shop to fill it up.
At least the special shop takes a cresdit card. The card and app system is annoying and a rip off. A trip accross Spain, France and Germany requires mulltiple cards and apps which very often involve a monthly charge even if they're not used. How would petrol car drivers react if to use a particular brand of petrol you had to pay an annual fee of 38e? Needs sorting... .
I had a i3s for the weekend and absolutely loved it. I was also concerned about range but soon realised what it offered covered pretty much all of my day to day driving. For various reasons I didn't end up pulling the trigger but having checked the price through work last week after hearing about the 0% BIK tax and that brings the price down to no brainer levels so will be ordering.
Yes Edukator, going touring round Europe in one right now would be a bit of a pain in the backside. But it doesn't sound like that is what the OP is planning, for what he wants that just won't be an issue.
(And in time it will get better and more charging points will just use contactless credit/debit cards, but that will take time.)
I have an eGolf on the way in January too after 2 years in a Golf GTE, but I've had brief stints in other EVs. Yes the ID3 is coming but the eGolf will be a current model well into next year - it's still being made in a different factory (Dresden) to the regular Golf and the ID3. The deals on them (cut list price and finance incentives) make it way cheaper than ID3 or even a 40kwh Leaf.
Sounds ideal for you, can charge at home, rarely need to do more than 100 miles.
I tend not to think about range anxiety ("will I get there?") but time anxiety ("will it take a bit longer to get there?"). There's plenty of rapid charging particularly if you're willing to get off the motorway, more a question of if a unit might be broken or occupied. But you just allow enough contingency to push on to the next if you can't charge at your first choice place. I'm planning to use mine for the couple of trips a year to BPW (210-ish miles each way), will just allow an extra couple of hours and take my time.
Not really off topic - could Renault Zoe owners explain the battery rental costs to me please.
My local Renault garage is not 'electric qualified (wtf?) so cant help me and its a long drive to another.
From what I can work out it depends on your monthly mileage. So are you renting the battery or just paying a battery tax?
I have just had a play on the Tesla webpage. A model 3, with towbar and long range 4wd options, so over 300 mile range, would be cheaper PCP than my current A6 avant..... hmm, food for thought...
Zoe battery rates are here: https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-finance/battery-hire.html
You own or finance the car separately, and make a battery hire payment each month. There are bands for mileage but at 8p a mile that's £120 for each extra 1500 miles so exactly the same as moving up a band - I'd just go for the least and put the rest aside for later. They're meant to true up every few years but seem lax on it. If you sell privately you make the new owner take out a new agreement and yours ends so it would get totted up then. Renault dealers have some special arrangement to take them over when they come into used stock.
Note there are battery owned Zoes (that have the "i" designation) too, but they're rarer. The new ZE50 Zoe will be battery owned only in the UK.
Been using a Tesla model S since early 2018. Brilliant for long journeys (regular trips to and from Cambridge, or visits to London, Southampton, ...). And no problem at all for local commuting. My SO used it for their community-based job for several months. At about 30 miles per day it got plugged in on a Friday night before weekend driving and then plugged in Sunday night all ready for a week’s commuting.
my SO took delivery of a Model 3 in September. It is a more practical size for day-to-day work. I still owe the Model 3 thread on the forum a summary of differences.
In short, I have no hesitation recommending a move to a Model 3.
Depending on your driving I’ve no hesitation in saying ‘go electric’. If your daily drive is within 90% of the rated range of the car at 90% ‘full’ then any electric that meets those criteria will work for you if you can charge at home overnight.
Nearly a consensus from STW! Will go and have a look at one over the weekend but think we will likely go for it. Had a golf a few years ago and really liked it so looking forward to getting another one.
Curiously in the two and a bit years we've had our Zoe we've never been particularly close to running out of battery but we have nearly been close to running out of petrol in the other car because we both now so dislike the faff, expense, time and smelliness of having to take it to a petrol station...
Dumb question from non owner - how long are the charging cables? When our diesal dies I think we will move to EV. Trying to work out if I can put the charge point somewhere less visible than next to the door.
Going on to EDFs cheaper evening and weekend tariff very soon.
I did the maths and Octopus Go tariff appeared much cheaper
@phiiiiil oh yes. When we had an ICE at the same time as I had my Model S going to a filling station just felt weird.
@DT78 charging cables come in various default lengths but given that it's just cable I'm pretty sure that custom lengths must be available. I think ours is 5m. Give the folks at https://mcnallyev.uk/products/home/ a call. They did a great, subsidised, installation for us. They say on their site "Tethered comes with 5m cable as standard, but that can be upgraded to 10m"
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Our electricity use wouldn't support an Economy7-like tariff. Even at just under £0.15/kWh, charging cars is cheaper than petrol I suspect. I doubt charging cars is the principle component in our consumption.
I have just had a play on the Tesla webpage. A model 3, with towbar and long range 4wd options, so over 300 mile range, would be cheaper PCP than my current A6 avant….. hmm, food for thought…
I see the Avant is an estate. The Model 3 is a saloon. With a boot. But if you're happy with a towbar, the Model 3 will be a revelation compared to the clunky drive of any petrol or diesel. The cabin will be a shock after the button-ridden plushness of an Audi. The Model 3 is uber-minimalist. To the point that some folks wonder how to open the doors from the inside (push a button, the door pops open) or outside (push the base of the lever with your thumb).
We've changed to EDF's EV tarrif which is great for us. The off-peak rate also covers 24hours at weekends rather than just overnight. Some companies only do 4 to 5 hours night rate but EDF is from 9 o'clock until 7 in the morning which is handy when the solar PV can't top up during the day for free.EDF EV
An i3S owner since March, we have covered about 6.5K miles. Absolutely love driving it especially in Sport mode 👹 and I came from an A45.
Only used public chargers a few times with no issues. We found a little forward planning of any longer journeys has removed any range anxiety.
I actually now find it harder switching back to our Diesel van because of its lack of torque.
To the point that some folks wonder how to open the doors from the inside (push a button, the door pops open) or outside (push the base of the lever with your thumb).
Isn't that how that guy burned to death in his?
What companies have people used for their home charge points?
What companies have people used for their home charge points?
I've just got a cheapy 7kw Rolec untethered. They have to be smart chargers now tho, which might have added to the cost since I got mine.
Edit: They appear about £100 more than they were 6months ago.
Few people at work have just taken delivery of eGolf’s via the company car scheme because of the changes to the BIK next year.
So far they’re enjoying them. They’ll be saving a shed load as of next year on diesel cars. The range doesn’t appear to be an issue for them so far. Another chap has done 20k in a year in an i3 and says it doable with a bit of planning.
Those of you with Zoe's how good is the preheat? Looking at one as a station shuttle but really want to be able to preheat it while in the public car park before we arrive back at it. Can you do that?
As for how good it is, the heater is pathetic on eco mode and no better than acceptable in normal mode. You won't be driving in shirt sleeves when it's minus 20 outside like you can in a petrol car. The pre-heat lasts five minutes and then stops. On long trips in Winter we dress up like we did in an old T6 bus, drive on eco and just use the heater to keep the screen clear.
That doesn't sound great. Can you tell it to preheat in normal when not plugged in it is it eco only?
Not worried about keeping coat on as only a short trip. The big saving in time would be not having to de-ice or demist.
It heats on max on preheat, 2 x 5mins to de-ice, though obviously it depends on how thick the ice is and how cold it is. It's a lot faster than an ICE car because the heater works as well as it ever does from cold without having to wait for the engine to warm up.
I’m guessing you can pre-program them too? Our GTE is back into winter mode so it warms the car to 21C from 8am ready for my wife to leave at 8.15.
Does anyone know if there's a big picture audit / analysis of electric cars. I'm not saying that they're not an improvement on the internal combustion engine, clearly - I think - they are in terms of air pollution, but no-one ever seems to touch on:
- the environmental costs of producing / recycling batteries on a vast scale
- what is the lifespan of the batteries
- the fact that electrical cars still produce harmful tyre and brake pad particles
- the amount of additional electricity they will demand
- one electric car still uses metal, rubber, plastics etc at the same rate as petrol/diesel
- how on earth electric cars will work on northern terraced streets with multiple vehicles per house. Parking rage should acquire a whole new dimension.
So, we replace millions of petrol / diesel cars with millions of electric cars as if it somehow solves the problem at a stroke, but the reality seems a lot less clear. What we arguably should be doing is building a world where people have reliable public transport options, where walking and cycling are prioritised over car use and people no longer depend on owning a personal vehicle for day-to-day life.
It worries me that 'electric cars' have become a sort of political tick-box rather than a properly thought-through solution and at some point in the future we'll look back and wonder how we blithely exchanged one set of ecologically disastrous transport solutions for another.
Sorry, I know that's a bit of a tangent and the big answer is probably the economic / political power of the motor industry who want to go on building more and more cars regardless of what powers them and the answer is going to be state-led rather than personal action, but are we just embracing a different problem going forward?
What we arguably should be doing is building a world where people have reliable public transport options, where walking and cycling are prioritised over car use and people no longer depend on owning a personal vehicle for day-to-day life.
Good luck with that. In the meantime a workable solution (workable as in less localised pollution, better use of centralised power generation etc,.) is electric cars.
Good luck with that. In the meantime a workable solution (workable as in less localised pollution, better use of centralised power generation etc,.) is electric cars.
Yes I accept that, but it also worries me that there seems to be very limited discussion of the bigger picture partly because the focus on electric cars creates the impression that otherwise it's okay to just continue as we are, but powered by electricity rather than oil.
All of those question have been answered in multiple threads on this forum, Badlywireddog. There also a mass of information from reliable sources such as the Freuhofer institute which despite the filthy German electricity generation mix finds EVs les polluting over there life cycle.
EVs aren't perfect but one point seems to get lost in the anti-EV propaganda: ICE cars burn somewhere around 5 times their own weight in fuel over their lifetime, non of which is recycled and all of which contributes to local atmospheric pollution and climatic change.
Of course cycling, walking and well-thought-out public transport solutions would be better but try convincing people to walk, cyle or use public transport and not vote against any goverment that favours them at the next election.
As Macron has discovered, your enemy isn't the government or motor industry, it's the gilet jaune mentality which means peole invade the streets at the first hint of fiscal pressure to change. People consider the chepa private ICE car a God given right and any government that questions that has a reveolution on its hands.
How do you convince the people on STW that change is necessary and the change needed includes them?
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/mid-life-crisis-car/page/4/
– the environmental costs of producing / recycling batteries on a vast scale
– what is the lifespan of the batteries
– the fact that electrical cars still produce harmful tyre and brake pad particles
– the amount of additional electricity they will demand
– one electric car still uses metal, rubber, plastics etc at the same rate as petrol/diesel
– how on earth electric cars will work on northern terraced streets with multiple vehicles per house. Parking rage should acquire a whole new dimension.
I'm sure someone has, but I haven't seen any reports.
I've been thinking about EVs for a long time, but haven't taken the plunge yet. My Wife's car is due for replacement soon though and would be the perfect case for an EV I think - she's a district nurse so it's lots of short journeys, but not much actually mileage per day.
I'm still not convinced it's the perfect solution and we've cracked all the issues of personal transportation pollution and all that, I think we shouldn't over look that fact that the most vocal people in the Motoring Industry are the Journos and they didn't get into the game because they want to save the world, frankly most of them still think the road is a race track, get a stiffy thinking about massive V12 Ferraris and think cars are sentient being with 'souls' - but even taking that into account, you can't escape the fact that EVs represent the best way to fuel your car in the most tax efficient way possible. Petrol / Diesel is 65% tax, home Electricity is 5%.
Anyway, that being said, here's my guesses based on the little research I've done.
what is the lifespan of the batteries
Varies massively, I've read a lot of early Nissan Leafs (10 years old now) are effectively write offs, there range falls down to 20 miles or so (worst case in Winter) whereas Teslas appear to drop to about 85% capacity after 3/4 years and stay there. TBH 10 year lifespan is becoming the norm for cars sadly.
the fact that electrical cars still produce harmful tyre and brake pad particles
Yes they do, but here's the thing, at worst they might produce a bit more from tyres because they weigh more, but less on brakes as they brake differently - but on balance 'no worse' and frankly consumers didn't know or care about this prior to EVs becoming a thing, I'm not saying it's a non-story but it's another "yeah but.." thing from the motoring press.
the amount of additional electricity they will demand
We've actually got a lot of headroom in energy production as we've been pushing towards renewables, it's not a non-issue, but where there is demand, there will be people ready to feed it.
one electric car still uses metal, rubber, plastics etc at the same rate as petrol/diesel
Higher actually, they weigh more, so they use more materials, but the car industry has been recycling as long as it existed and they're getting better and better at it.
how on earth electric cars will work on northern terraced streets with multiple vehicles per house. Parking rage should acquire a whole new dimension
It's a problem, but it's not that hard to fix. Consider all the things we take for granted, the national grid, the telephone network, Virgin's network, mains gas all these things required a huge national network to be created 'all' we have to do it work out how to shift power a few metres. Hell the mains probably runs under the pavement outside your house already.
On battery life I did a bit of thinking before ordering my next Zoé with a battery rather than battery rental. It's fast charging that reduces battery life and the early Leaf with 22kWh batteries and fast charging up to 50kW suffered. The Zoés with 22kW chargers seem to be holding up well as do Teslas which are limited to 120kW on their smaller batteries and 150kW on the long range 100KWH battery model S.
I'm hoping that if I keep the car 8 years when the 66% guarantee runs out there will be after market batteries avaiable to give it a second life. Better still lithium technology will be old hat by then and cars will have carbon nano fibre batteries of something that is cheap and widely available.
Thanks guys, some interesting stuff there.
Those of you with Zoe’s how good is the preheat?
Unlike Edukator we're perfectly happy with ours! The preheat is excellent, you can start it from the key or the app (although I believe the new ones it's just the app) and runs for five minutes. In most conditions this is fine; very occasionally I've given it a double blast when it's really icy, but normally just once is fine. Preheat works the same in eco or normal mode.
My biggest gripe about preheat is that it doesn't do the side mirrors, even though they do have heaters in. It doesn't do the rear window either, but the car warming up as a whole tends to do that enough anyway.
Over winter we use preheat all the time; with the key before leaving the house, then with the app a few minutes before getting back to the car when out and about.
The heater is a bit weedy in eco mode so we don't use eco mode in winter. I've got no complaints in normal mode though, I've never worn a coat in the car even when I haven't preheated it; it warms up pretty quickly anyway, as you can feel heat coming out of the vents in a matter of seconds on starting.
It can be a bit funny when it's a sort of middling temperature, not cold but not very warm either, when it seems to decide that you're happy being warmed up slowly rather than as soon as possible. I can't say it's been a problem though.
I'm not unhappy with it, I'm just being objective about the heater because claiming something is something it isn't doesn't help. The Pyrenees perhaps get a bit colder than where you live, I leave my ski jacket on after skiing anyhow. The heater on eco is pathetic, on normal it's no better than adequate and using it hammers the battery so if you're doing a long trip it's better to put a coat on and just use enough heat to keep the screen clear, on pre-heat it's fine - 2 x 5 mins. It's a known problem and feels like you're fighting voodoo coaxing heat out of it:
http://myrenaultzoe.com/index.php/2017/02/zoe-its-cold-outside-or-how-i-got-my-heating-working/
(although I believe the new ones it’s just the app)
I'll be unhappy if it won't work without the app because you have to pay a subscription for the "services connectés" after 3 years and I'll begrudge having to pay a subscription just to pre-heat the car. I never use any of the other distracting crap. 🙂
You have to pay extra to use a feature they sell the car with! FFS
You do not have to pay for connected services in the UK. Ours is now over 4 years old and we've paid nothing. You will probably just have to get it activated by Renault when you buy the car. Heater is fine, if it's not then something is wrong(not uncommon). Pre-heat will only work when either plugged in or with battery level above 40% on an older 22Kw car.
Getting used to my 2018 ZOE after just 10 days of 60 mile round commute but am actually loving it which surprised me coming from a fairly new Merc E class estate. It’s been really cold since and the heater seems to be a bit on an art as it’s a heat pump. Find that lower the fan speed the better, don’t go over 23 degrees and turn off the AC if needs be. Been fine at zero degrees outside. Love the peace and quiet and the free charge in the Park and Ride at the end of my commute - no fuel costs now.
To the OP do it, theres various elements that take a bit of time to get you head around, but that's mainly because over the years you "get" how to live with an ICE car. Once you get used to how EV works differently there's no looking back.