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I have an old Nissan Leaf which I dislike but is annoyingly adequate.
On Wednesday I went to drive it but it said "Key not Present" even though I had the key in my pocket. It is a proximity key with no option of using an actual physical key. I used the buttons on the key fob to lock and unlock the doors and then it decided it could recognise the key. I started to reverse up the drive and then was called back to the house and when I returned it wouldn't recognise the key again.
I left the car where it was for a couple of days while I got a new battery for the key fob. Tried again this morning and the dash lights up but reports an i-kery error and says visit the dealer. It will not engage forward or reverse so there is no way of moving the car.
I drove the other car to the dealer who told me that is would need to be plugged into their computer. I asked how to get it to them and they told me to call the RAC and get a delivery truck. I explained it was front forward pointing down the drive and they said I must not drag the car onto the truck without lifting the front wheels and suggested I either get it craned onto the truck or jack it up and put a trolley underneath it. The transmission only has park, forward or reverse so I cannot put it into neutral.
I now have a great lump of Nissan Leaf blocking the drive and one of my cars, a dealer who has perfected the disinterested shrug and the need to rent a Sikorsky Skycrane helicopter to move the pile of shite. A suggestion from another forum is to remove and fully charge the standard 12vc battery as a low charge on this can do 'funny things' to the start up.
Just thought I would share the experience
Solution:
Matt beat me to it.
Use the second key.
I assume that you have tried starting the car with the button pressed against the 'start' button - this works even when the key battery is very low, or the key is wet (been there)
I would be very tempted to charge the 12v battery.
Plus, proximity keys are certainly not just a problem in EVs, but your point about lack of Neutral is a PITA. My new Ioniq5 has N, so maybe just a Leavf issue.
There is no second key. Pressing the Start button is what I have been doing when it says the key is not detected even when using the key to press the button - great minds think alike .
12V battery on charge in the garage as we speak.
Option A is very tempting if I can move the other car far enough away to be safe 🙂
12V battery on charge in the garage as we speak.
As an owner of the similar Zoe, this is a well worth trying. Fingers crossed.
The Zoe has neutral. Surprised the leaf doesn’t.
The Zoe also has a slot to (optionally) stow the keycard. Does the leaf have this? Might help.
Our Zoé throws all sorts of scary error messages when the 12v battery runs low - which happens if it’s not driven for a week or so. There’s a short somewhere which drains the battery over time.
I understand the need for a 12v system but it does seem a tad crazy that it needs a dedicated battery for it. I'm similarly stumped that my GTE has a 12v battery when there is a 400v one a couple of feet away. It has a transformer to charge the 12v system. I don't think it has a 12v starter. Do Teslas have a 12v battery?
On a slightly connected note - my Countryman PHEV (so a hybrid not a full electric), recently spent 14 days in the garage getting a new 'module' fitted to make the electric bit work. £5500 apparently. On a two year old car. Apparently I had used mine in electric mode 'a lot more than most people' 🤣
As mine is a company car, it wasn't really a big issue however I would be very wary of buying one secondhand with any danger of the warrantee running out...
And before anyone posts that full electric cars are simpler than hybrids etc - I know! This is just an example of a real problem I have encountered.
This isn’t an EV problem, it’s a keyless start problem.
I understand the need for a 12v system but it does seem a tad crazy that it needs a dedicated battery for it. I’m similarly stumped that my GTE has a 12v battery when there is a 400v one a couple of feet away. It has a transformer to charge the 12v system. I don’t think it has a 12v starter. Do Teslas have a 12v battery?
You need a dedicated 12V battery for a number of reasons. Something has to provide power to close the main battery contactors. If there's an accident or a major fault in the battery or drivetrain, these contactors will open and although you'll lose drive, you'll keep power to lights and airbag controllers etc.
The emergency cut loop in EVs actually cuts the 12v supply to the battery contactors, which will then spring open and isolate the main battery.
Teslas have a 12v battery but it's increasingly being replaced by a lithium equivalent for weight saving.
WorldClassAccident - if you can't get a battery charger to the car then any small 12v battery (say from a burglar alarm or something) will be more than capable of supplying the car long enough to identify the fault, provided you disconnect the old 12v first. Frankly I suspect you could probably do it with 9 AA batteries in series. Or just take a gamble and buy a new 12V battery...
Have you tried holding the shift lever in either direction for five seconds or so with your foot on the brake? That often shifts cars with weird gear selectors (not exclusive to EVs) into neutral.
My Mondeo keyless key has a real key inside it. Might be similar for you? There's a hidden slot in the steering to slide in the fob which delivers the immobilizer code (via some sort of RFID I assume), for power out situations.
For me, the potential problems (faults and security) with keyless start and keyless entry outweigh the convenience by a long way. Unfortunately I think the next car I'm planning buy (e-Up) has no choice.
Is the solution not to have breakdown cover with homestart. The problem of getting the car to the dealer becomes the RAC's?
No help to the OP at this stage of course.
Mis-titled thread?- keyless entry/start/12v battery problems happen on ICE cars all the time as well as EVs?!
As do big nasty dealer bills/warranty fixes - chap I know told me Friday his 3 month out of BMW needed a new heater matrix fitting and got quoted £2800....ouch.
Phone pretty much any breakdown company.
Tell them the position of the car and the situation.
They turn up, jack up the front of the car, put skates under the wheels and winch it on to their flat bed.
Car goes to dealers.
Helicopter not needed. It's really not hard.
Mis-titled thread?- keyless entry/start/12v battery problems happen on ICE cars all the time as well as EVs?!
Mis-read the original post/didn't read it all before commenting ?
Needs a crane to recover would be the main issue the key problem is minimal.
I've seen on some TV show or other the recovery guy fits wheels with freewheeling hubs so it can be towed. It's a known issue with EVs.
I guess the red neck option would be to remove the CV joints.
Guarantee there’s a way to move that car without being so drastic as removing CV joints once he reads the manual.
I reckon this thread title needs changed to “Don’t forget to check your car battery ready for winter”
How to get a Nissan Leaf into Neutral. To switch your Nissan Leaf into neutral, you will need to hold in the shift knob to the left. Make sure that you do so for at least 3 seconds. You will notice that the display below the shift knob will have the letter N lit up, meaning that you are in neutral. You must not turn off the Leaf while switching into neutral.
How to get a Nissan Leaf into Neutral. To switch your Nissan Leaf into neutral, you will need to hold in the shift knob to the left. Make sure that you do so for at least 3 seconds. You will notice that the display below the shift knob will have the letter N lit up, meaning that you are in neutral. You must not turn off the Leaf while switching into neutral.
And if your leaf isn't turning on ?
And if your leaf isn’t turning on ?
Then you charge the 12v battery
Guarantee there’s a way to move that car without being so drastic as removing CV joints
It may not be possible without wheel dollies/trolley jack's anyway if the steering lock won't disengage.
Mis-read the original post/didn’t read it all before commenting ?
Needs a
crane to recover would be the main issue the key problem is minimal.pair of metal oven trays from dunelm/ikea/tkmax
Or if being less redneck, some wheel dollies from halfords.
My parents (ICE) Nissan had a similar issue when the battery went totally flat, except they couldnt even unlock it with the emergency key blade in the passenger door. Solution was to charge the battery - which required openng the bonnet...which has the release inside the car. Ended up jacking it right up and reaching up inside the bonnet to release the catch manually.
My parents (ICE) Nissan had a similar issue when the battery went totally flat, except they couldnt even unlock it with the emergency key blade in the passenger door. Solution was to charge the battery – which required openng the bonnet…which has the release inside the car. Ended up jacking it right up and reaching up inside the bonnet to release the catch manually.
Who designs (and tests???? ) this crap?
Who designs (and tests???? ) this crap?
Someone with a brand new vehicle on front of them, to whom the question 'How does this fare in 10 years time when the sealed for life/of course things don't wear out/but this looks smart in the salesrooms just isn't in thier heads'.
Perhaps all new cars should pass the WCA 'does it work' and molgrips 'can I fix it' test...
Well even Nissan themselves can't figure out how to get a correct radio code for the same car now the battery has been changed, so yes. (car had a new engine as well at some point in its early life). Luckily my parents dont use the radio.
The Tesla has a simialr design flaw / issue in terms of flat battery - see James May’s experiences of dismantling when the battery goes flat and you need to open the car to charge it - but you can only open the car when the battery is charged.
It is an amazingly poor design choice - which goes for ICE vehicles too, but at least most of these have an actual key, let alone neutral!
Okay, I agree there are a number of issues that have had he compound effect of stopping the car from being moved.
1) Key fob battery failure meant the car electrics were turned on but then only partially turned off probably causing the previously faultless 12v battery to drain.
2) With a mostly drained battery the car is unable to start or change gear
3) The car manual went missing sometime since 2011 with one of the 4 previous owners
4) The gear shift button is only marked with Forward, Park and Reverse so no obvious way to put the car in neutral
5) The car will not let me put the electric handbrake on so if I do find neutral it willl roll down the hill unless I sit inside with my foot on the brake.
6) The lack of neutral and the EV motor means it cannot be towed backwards up the drive with the front wheels allowed to rotate
7) Yes, I agree that a helicopter might not be totally necessary if I jack the car up onto wheel dollies
I agree all of these problems could happen to a non-EV with failing electrics but the big problem is trying to move the car which is purely down to being an EV.
I will update if/when I get it moved.
Couple of decent trolley jacks and a few burly folk should move it .
[i]
Couple of decent trolley jacks and a few burly folk should move it .[/i]
That will be my plan tomorrow if the freshly charged battery doesn't work but with just me and one trolley jack.
It should be possible to download a PDF manual from Nissan. Put bricks in front of the back wheels.
The lack of neutral and the EV motor means it cannot be towed backwards up the drive with the front wheels allowed to rotate
Did you try the method I pasted or is the 12v still too low?
I will be trying all of the hints and tips tomorrow. I have had the battery on slow charge today and lots of other stuff but I do appreciate the advice - which is why I post on here 🙂
Even if I do get it sorted (hopefully just the battery) it is likely to form part of a three car shuffle in the near future if anyone near Southampton is interested in a very cheap but low range electric car - perhaps to try the experience before you commit to anything big. That is the basic reason I bought it and have been amazed how almost adequate it is.
Got you. Hopefully you’ll get sorted.
12v on my Zoe died last month after sitting in the garage unused for a couple of months as working away. Just thought would need a new one but still wouldn’t start and needed an AA bloke with a computer to clear the dozens of error codes it caused. Hope you won’t need the same. The AA were great though and were there over an hour fiddling - I’m not a member, just coughed up the non-member fee.
Bonus was it resurrected the remote ECU which stopped working 18 months ago so I can turn the heating on remotely again which is great in the winter.
I'm too polite to call BS on this ' except they couldnt even unlock it with the emergency key blade in the passenger door.' because luckily the leaf does have a key blade in the key which mechanically opens the lock, allowing you to open the boot and change/repalce the battery.
Re. bricked cars - I had a Mazda that was bulletproof for 225000 km except when about 3 months old the gearbox broke and basically bricked the car - the locked gearbox meant the car couldn't move, and also it couldn't be put into neutral to be moved. Mazda fixed it without question but at the time at work we were using a carpark where I am pretty sure you couldn't get a recovery truck in ? What then?
And the good news is that a fully charged 12V battery cleared the problem.
I agree that opening the door with a flat battery shouldn't be an issue as there is a key blade inside the fob. There isn't anywhere inside the car to fit the physical key but you can at least pop the bonnet and charge the car.
Loads of error and visit dealer signs were cleared by turning in off and turning it on again several times, also driving it backwards and then forwards a few feet.
Normal service now resumed but basically a flat 12V battery in an EV is more of a pain in the arse than in an ICE car.
The good news is that the car issues provoked a debate with the wife that has possibly ended with me getting to go ahead for a Bentley GTC 6.0 W12 which compliments the Leaf nicely I think.
Just remember, never leave the leccy car blocking the drive!
I don't think the Leaf saves you from a planet guzzling W12 Bentley.
[i]I don’t think the Leaf saves you from a planet guzzling W12 Bentley.[/i]
It is okay, I killed an American once which has offset my carbon footprint for life I think
It is okay, I killed an American once which has offset my carbon footprint for life I think
I think he was still on the bonnet of that little Honda you had when you arrived at a STW Surrey Hills ride about 15 years ago.
Glad you’re sorted. Cars are so heavily dependent on electrics now.
[i]I think he was still on the bonnet of that little Honda you had when you arrived at a STW Surrey Hills ride about 15 years ago.[/i]
I loved that car. So sad to sell it but the smell of gently roasting innards got too much