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First off, I have no issues with electric cars as a thing so this isn't about a dislike of them as the way to go but until today I'd had zero experience of them other than maybe being a passenger in an electric taxi. Both my cars still run on dinosaur juice
Our friends had an electric Toyota as a courtesy car for the weekend while their ICE car was getting work done. They obviously didn't have any charging option at home but we have 6 public charging bays at the end of our street so my friend popped down to ours and I took her to the bays. That's when the saga began..
In the bay there's a big box you plug one end of the lead in and put the other in the car.
On the box on a screen it says to touch your card against it
We touch a bank card against it
It says it's failed to register
We try a dozen times, always the same
Eventually another car turns up and we ask the driver for help
Turns out the card you need to touch isn't a bank card, it's a "Charge Place Scotland" card. In the absence of that card, you can use their app.
Nothing at the charge point tells you anything about this
I download the app as my friend didn't have her phone on her
I register for the app and put in my card details
We plug in the charger
It asks me to log in to the app despite being logged into the app
I log into the app
It asks for my card details despite already registering my card details seconds earlier
It automatically deducts £35 from my card
We now have the car connected to the charger. Before doing this the car had 26 miles range
Nothing on the charger or on the car tells us how fast it's charging, how long to a full charge, how many miles it's adding
We decide to lock the car and walk back to our house. We're worried about leaving the cable there in case it gets stolen.
After half an hour we're back at the car
Nothing tells us how the charging is progressing. The screen on the charge point is a very basic old fashioned LCD thing. Nothing on the screens in the car says anything about how the charge is progressing. We check the handbook. There's an insanely complicated section about AC or DC charging, loads of scenarios.
We unplug the cable from the charger but the car end is locked to the car. Eventually we have to lock and unlock the car several times before the cable unlocks
We start the car and in half an hour on a supposed fast charger (the driver that helped us earlier mentioned something about 22kwh charging?) we've added 20 miles to the range at a cost of £2.21. if I pumped diesel for half an hour and only added 20 miles of range I'd be raging
This seems to be farcically complicated. If you go to a Shell, BP, Texaco or whatever garage do you have to register for their different charging apps and go through the same rigmarole?
I'm sure home chargers are easy but I can imagine the hassle of trying to decipher some random French charging station at 2am in the rain.
I'm pretty tech savvy and very mechanically minded but even I was losing the rag at how complicated this was. My Mrs is completely unable to lock the petrol cap on her car and there's not a chance in hell she'd have been able to get this thing charging.
Was this just a bad experience or standard hassle?
A poor experience that's for sure.
Double click the unlock button on the car remote usually unlocks the cable.
Where was the next nearest charger? If I have no success (which is rare) I head to the next nearest charger. Lots of chargers fast DC are now contactless with no registration. I think.
Pity the courtesy car people didn't give any instructions.
Chargefinder is my go to app for finding chargers.
I had a chat with a nurse in Eyemouth whilst I was on holiday. I started with asking her why she was kicking the charging machine.. I then had an educational conversation about why electric cars aren’t a good idea - yet.
Hi Bob,
No, what you are describing is not normal. I run two EVs and frequently use Chareplace Scotland. Both of my cars clearly show charge state and rate, as have all chargers I have used, though some are difficult to read.
I am not familiar with using Chargeplace Scotland on the app as I have a card on both cars. The only other network I have used is Tesla via the app.
Sorry that you had a bad first experience, it is not typical. I would not have purchased a second EV three years after the first of it was.
I love my EVs and would not go back to ICE.
My first experience wasn't much better. Bad show on the garage not explaining what would need done - or indeed providing the car with a full charge.
The app does show how fast the charge is happening...despite 22kw, I've yet to see that...11kw seems to be the fastest I've had.
On the positive side though - if you had been pumping diesel for 30 minutes, you can be absolutely certain it wouldn't be costing you just over 2 quid!
I've mentioned it before, but there are too many apps needed for all the various charging providers. Needs to be a single app for the user that can be used and the relevant supplier then gets paid for the charge used...first time without being shown it all beforehand and having it all setup is a total nightmare.
Hopefully this hasn't put either of you off considering an EV in the future.
contactless with no registration. I think.
That was my probably naive expectation for how this would work.
I really wanted an EV at my recent car change but couldn't quite get the right thing but did do quite a lot of reading on the EV thread on here about charging.
22kW is I think described as "fast" but is a throwback to the earlier generation of cars and chargers where the only other common options were 3 pin plug type things.
Fast in current terms therefore seems to mean "faster than a 3 pin plug/domestic wall charger but still takes several hours to put meaningful mileage on your car".
AIUI What you need for a quick useful top-up is "rapid" charging in current speak.
That assumes your car can make use of that speed of electricity delivery.
Hyundai and Kia have some properly fast charging stuff. An old Leaf by contrast it's (for all practical purposes) wasted on.
In defence of EVs I think you'd get the hang of it quickly if it was your daily and you'd probably have read up in advance of delivery/buying (certainly I did a lot around how we might charge on some critical/regular trips).
It does strike me as annoying that I might have to register with multiple providers to do a longer trip / have good flexibility of charging. That's a real shortcoming of private ownership of the charging network and limited regulation of how that's delivered.
It's normal for Charge Place Scotland, in my experience, if you don't have the card. They tell you to get the CPS card, but what they don't tell you is that a lot of the older chargers are not app-enabled, even though they show up on the app and have a big 'start charge' button that simply never works.
For nearly all rapid chargers elsewhere, you do just plug in and tap your bank card - no need to sign up for anything. Some slow chargers at destinations can be a bit shit still, but they are of minimal value in reality.
if I pumped diesel for half an hour and only added 20 miles of range I’d be raging
Sounds like you were plugged into the slow charger. My car is about the slowest car around and it can still do 20-80% in half an hour, which is about 120 miles.
The app does show how fast the charge is happening…despite 22kw, I’ve yet to see that…11kw seems to be the fastest I’ve had.
So there's AC and DC charging. AC is slow, DC is fast. AC is where you use your own cable (usually), DC is where the big thick one is attached to the machine. Almost no cars can charge AC at 22kW, it's usually 7kW sometimes 11kW. DC is where you get at least 50kW up to 250kW in the first 60% or so of your charge, depending on car.
It does strike me as annoying that I might have to register with multiple providers to do a longer trip
You don't have to - unless you're in Scotland. Registering with a programme just gets you a modest discount for a monthly fee which isn't worth bothering with unless you're a mega miles driver. Tesla public charging might be the exception as they are cheap but again this isn't essential, plenty of other chargers around. When you stop at motorway services you'll be using Applegreen, Gridserve, Osprey, Ionity etc and they are all tap your bank card and go.
Yeah, definitely DC but never really goes above 11kw...CSS combo Type 2 charging. So not using my cable but the one attached to the machine.
It isn't a major issue for me though as I don't tend to charge anywhere other than the office and that is a 7kw and I just charge it to 100% as it is a slow charge so doesn't risk damage to the battery - it does tend to take almost the full day though, but it is a constant 6.9kw.
Even in England / Wales there is a bit of a small learning curve.
When I first got mine we did a trip to Anglesey and had a bit of a mare with finding chargers that worked, had to download a few apps, put £30 on them only to find that the charger just trickle fed a tiny amount of electricity. My Audi app would have told me the charging rate if I’d have had a look.
But it was a mare, and mainly because I didn’t know what I was looking for. So no wifi or phone signal trying to download an app. Quite stressful.
But now I know what I’m doing, as a system it now works well for me.
I've also had some issues with Charge Place Scotland. I had to do a long trip shortly after getting my car, so the RFID card I ordered had not arrived. As mentioned above, I found that the older style chargers (the large colourful cabinets) simply don't work with the app. I did eventually successfully charge on a newer charger using the app. On my return journey I experienced problems with very different charge rates (on the same type of chargers). Tried one in Kingussie which wasn't much better than a slow charge, so gave up and drove to Newtonmore where I very quickly got charged at a good rate on exactly the same type of charger. Possibly a site load problem, because the first car park had multiple chargers, whereas the second had only one?
After waiting a couple of weeks, I had to contact CPS to get my RFID card sent out, and it simply didn't work the first time I tried using it. I contacted CPS to report this, and they eventually responded asking for confirmation of identity before they could investigate. Provided the info, and a couple of weeks later got another email from a different person asking for confirmation of identity before they could investigate. Provided the info again. Still waiting for a response a couple of weeks later...
On a more positive note, I also ordered an Electroverse card which arrived very quickly and has worked without any problems on every occasion I have used it.
It’s not difficult but it does need preparation, which is not good if you are given one unexpectedly. It would be the same if you were suddenly given a ICE car but didn’t know the difference between petrol and diesel.
22kw chargers are all well and good but lots of cars will only take up to 11kw on AC. DC charging is what you need when out and about.
Worst issue for me is that so many chargers rely on mobile data connections which are unreliable. Charger at hotel in Aviemore wouldn’t work with contactless. Couldn’t download the app because of no mobile signal. Had to go into hotel for WiFi then register the app. Took ages to get charger to connect to app. On the plus side due to all the dodgy connections, my car charged but my account wasn’t debited.
A connected network is badly needed. ChargePlace Scotland card is great example of what could be done.
I managed 45kWh of free power from CPS on their slow 7kWh chargers on my last trip to Scotland. No dedicated card either.
I wonder how much of this complication is driven by the desire for your data? Pumping petrol or diesel today is no more difficult than it was when I first started doing it 30 years ago. It's the same experience at the fancy BP garage along the road or the tiny wee garage in the middle of the Highlands. Stick the nozzle in, pull the trigger until you've put in what you want, go and pay for it. I've never had to download an app to do that or need a different app per supplier although I know apps are available for pay at pump stuff.
I can't think of a single example of anything which is improved by having to do it on an app. At least for the user.
And all of this is exacty the reason I didn't hire an EV when I was in France.
In England and Wales you don't need any apps.
Plug in, beep your debit card.
Just checked what car it was. A Toyota bZ4x. Horrific name unless it's a play on words I don't get?
Just googled the charging details for it
https://support.toyota.com/s/article/bZ4X-Charging?language=en_US
Appreciate that's the US page but it isn't half complex. A quick skim read throws up the following variables when it comes to charging
110v
240v
NEMA 14-50R outlet
Level 2 chargers
Level 3 chargers
J1772 connectors
CCS1 connectors
12 amp charging
32 amp charging
Again I'll use my Mrs as an example of someone who can't get her head around the difference between a micro USB and USB-C phone charging cable. She'd have a meltdown trying to charge an electric car if she read the instructions
Pumping petrol or diesel today is no more difficult than it was when I first started doing it 30 years ago
indeed. Think though how complicated it was for folks moving from horses to cars back in the day. It was so complicated then you had someone fill your car up for you. ?
Since moving to BEV in 2018 I’ve only had a couple of ? experiences. One at the old chargers at the Eden centre - figured it would be fun to give one a go. It wasn’t as fun as I’d expected. Another at a car park near Mousehole which was a failure to rtfm for the charger.
other than that, no problems. And not missing the stink of diesel or the heady fumes of petrol at all.
I sympathise with you OP. We've had an EV for nearly 7 years now and we're lucky enough to be able to charge at home easily. A couple of years ago we had a few months in between homes and I think Iost about 5 years off my lifespan stressing about where/how to get the car charged and we do have the ChargePlace card.
I have to say though, as patchy as it can be in Scotland, Northern Ireland was orders of magnitude worse. Included one charger that requied you to download an app and prepay onto it BUT THERE WERE MULTIPLE APPS FROM THE SAME COMPANY, NONE OF WHICH WAS OBVIOUSLY THE RIGHT ONE.
Apart from all that though once you get a routine with an EV it's grand.
It’s quite common for users to have the odd glitch when first getting used to the system. However most people soon get set up with a system that works reliably for them.
I’m also currently having problem with the CPS system which I use very rarely (last week was the first time in a year). Multiple messages to customer support and requests for a password reset have so far got a single “we’ll look into it and get back to you in 48h” response. The past year in England - vast majority charging overnight at home - has been flawless however. In England all the commercial chargers we’ve (rarely) used are just contactless touch and go.
I’ve never used a charger of any description that didn’t tell me the charging rate and so does my car.
No, charging is not normally this hard. G last two public charge sessions added 60 miles in 4 mins (at a fast IONITY charger) and 45 miles in 1.5 hrs (at a free 7kW charger while we were in town) - both sessions just one tap of a card and we’re off. For both of those sessions I used a charging card and also have multiple accounts set up for various providers.
What IS frequently an issue though is people struggling with an EV with no experience, no set up etc like the OP. We frequently use hire cars at work for business trips and every so often someone gets given an EV which usually results in similar tales of how hard it is to use an EV. Add in that the car should be returned “full” and it’s then even an issue to charge back up at the end of the journey, just when people want to throw the keys back and go home after a long day(s) away.
I think that there should be some form of standardised “how to” guide with hire or courtesy EVs along with a charge card that gets worked into the final bill. Plus dropping the “return full” requirement for EVs as the hire place can charge them back up to full at their own convenience.
That sounds like a terrible first time, I can't say I've ever experience anything like that. My experience of charging when out and about (Ref. sample of probably 20 individual charges in England, Wales and France)
Pull Up, Plug in
Tap Card
Charge starts (Charge rate and time to complete displayed on Car, Charger and app.)
Go for coffee/wee
Come back, car done (20-80%)
Unplug, drive away.
That's an unusually bad experience. For Tesla at a Tesla supercharger, it's as simple as plug cable into car and that's it, everything happens automatically and your registered card gets billed when done.
Last non-Tesla charger I used was Instavolt fast charger at Tremadog on Saturday. I didn't have the app so used a card (contact not contactless, for some reason that didn't work). Very straightforward.
Before my home charger was installed I used the Shell fast chargers in the local Waitrose via the app and the BP fast chargers at the local petrol station via that app. No problems other than sometimes having to wait to use them.
Nothing like any experiences I had when we had EVs, the cars showed the charge, the machines showed the charge, the machines all had cables, I used the card supplied with the vehicle at the chargers, an app or Scotland the charge Scotland card. All machines told you what they accepted.
Home charging is great, until like this morning when a fox had pissed on/scent marked my cable and I didn't notice until I got in the car and wondered where the smell was coming from (it was my hands which I'd already held the steering wheel with). They like to crap there to, not on the cable itself but where I walk between car and garage door when using the charger, not great in winter when it's still pitch black and I can't see where I'm treading
Just in the process of driving our Tesla 1000’s of miles across the UK and France; it is by far the most relaxing and easiest long distance trip we’ve ever had in a car. Lots of lovely stops and it’s only taken a few minutes to plan charging, once you get used to it, EV charging can be a very pleasant experience:)
Our friends had an electric Toyota as a courtesy car for the weekend while their ICE car was getting work done.
Did the garage who supplied the car not explain, or did you friend not listen?
And IMO if the courtesy car was 'empty', they should've rejected it immediately and demanded a charged one.
Agreed that souds terrible, but it's more likely that your frined 'isn't ready' of didn't really want an EV... so it doesn't work for them.
It's like one of my patients who has a brand new Nissan Leaf, but hates it because it's so expensive to charge (at garage chargers).. She lives in a top floor flat. The flats have no charger.
THat's not "EVs being bad" - that's user error!!
I think Vs only make sense if you have homecharging abilities.
DrP
I think it’s important to understand what Charge Place Scotland actually is.
They don’t own, install or maintain any chargers. They are a centralised front end for billing of thousands of separate owners.
I could add the charger on the side if my house onto CPS and open it up for public use and CPS would do all the billing and administration n for me and just send me a payment every month.
The upside as an EV driver is that there are chargers everywhere that you can use with the one card and receive a single monthly invoice.
The downside is that the type, quality and level of maintenance of those chargers varies wildly as it’s down to the individual owners of those chargers.
It’s a legacy of the Scottish Government driving EV adoption and on balance it’s way more good than bad.
It’s just unfortunate that the OP got stuck with one of the bad ones first time out.
Buy a Tesla.
They use CCS , so do most new cars so it's not at all like USB-C, micro etc etc. If it's any consolation I had to use a fast charger a couple times over the weekend, and it went as smooth as you like.
Many Charge Place Scotland units are now being converted to accept credit/debit card payment. In some ways the fact they didn't is a legacy of the early stage of introducing the system when it was free! I've generally found the call centre staff could fix most problems with varying degrees of apathy and understanding! it is totally stupid that each "network" wants its own system. As you've discovered there is no risk of the cable being stolen as it is locked to the car (and the charger).
I'd put your problems down to the garage or the recipient of the courtesy car not asking the most basic question about recharging. I'd be amazed if the Toyota didn't show its charge status if you know how. I've only noticed one charger that didn't seem to show any status on the LCD. You'll probably have noticed chargers come in many sizes, from a bollard to a phone box. In general the bigger the box the faster the charge. The one you used is essentially designed for you to leave the car charging whilst you go about the rest of your life (imagine parking your petrol car at the petrol station and coming back to find it filled up for you).
Petrol/Diesel seems trivial by comparison. But imagine you had never seen someone use a pump and then get in an ICE can and need to refill it. You need to know how to open the flap (some are push and pop, some have a lever near the driver etc), then possibly unlock the cover, then which of the blue/black/green nozzles. In some places you will fill and pay, but in some you need to provide a card to start the machine. Then you need to fill it to your desired level - which is measured in L not miles, or even Gallons despite everyone describing cars in mpg. Then you go inside and they expect you to tell them a pump number - which half the time you can't see from the till. Then you drive off (possibly having left your filler cap on top of the pump - although after about 60 years of motoring most manufacturers found a solution for that).
Is it identical in other countries? No you'll need to know what the fuel you want is called. In some places unmanned stations are common. In some you'll cause alarm and confusion if you touch the pump and try to self serve (indeed there are still a few rural stations in the UK where they fill your tank). In the US who speak the same language they will expect you to know which RON you want. None of it is insurmountable, but I've seen plenty of foreign EV's charging in scotland this summer so it can't be that hard either.
You've had a bunch of first time user issues because the vehicle handover was poor. But now you know how it works - will it be anywhere near as hard next time?
My promise of a 48h response from CPS was sent by them on Friday evening, so that’s 60h now without a peep. OK that’s over a weekend but that would be little comfort if I was stuck somewhere unable to charge. It’s 6 days since I started trying to fix the problems (initially by attempting password reset). It seems pretty shambolic.
The upside as an EV driver is that there are chargers everywhere that you can use with the one card
That's great provided you have the card. If you just roll across the border without a card the issues will start. I only knew about the card because I'm a compulsive googler but even then we didn't have time for it to arrive before we left. Moral of the story - if you get an EV in the UK and there's the slightest chance you may go to Scotland at some point - get the card anyway.
if you get an EV in the UK and there’s the slightest chance you may go to Scotland at some point – get the card anyway.
And pay 12 quid for the privilege. Ridiculous.
Just glanced at the reviews for the CPS app on the Apple store. Not very reassuring!
Did the garage who supplied the car not explain
They were originally only supposed to have the car for Friday only and it was fully charged. My friend phoned the garage on Friday afternoon to be told their car wasn't ready and just to keep the electric car until today so no charging instructions were given
A few months into EV ownership here, and recent Alps + now Outer Hebrides tours. My first experience in a demo Leaf a few years ago was very much like the OPs, and meant I binned the idea of an EV for 4 years.
Now, with a bit a chatting with EV pals so I was prepped before purchase meant things were very smooth for public charging. Was quite stressed doing the first one though! Setting up Octopus Go with new Ohme home charger and VW was another interesting experience, but it all works now in a very plug n play manner.
Yeah, the CPS app is a bit flaky (you really need the card). And some of the chargers are old, slow, knackered and sometimes with a weird order of doing things. But as mentioned, a hell of a network really.
2 things in favour of CPS from recent experience -
1) A charger I needed to use was not working, so I called the number on the charger and they were fast, effective and extremely helpful at rebooting the charger remotely and getting everything to work.
2) Outer Hebrides CPS charging is apparently free everywhere. That's not what the app said, but 7, 22 or 50kw chargers used all over the island and each time was charged 0. Nice!
Oh, and OP, if you think CPS is bad, don't use BP chargers. Jesus wept!
Quick addition referencing @poly - to add to highly variable petrol filling experiences across Europe, in the US, it's even worse! First of all you have to go in and pay first (WTF, yes it is as confusing as it sounds for lots of reasons!), and then to really get the squeaky bum going - diesel pumps are ****ing green.
For those that have used EVs abroad, what's charging like in France? We're off to Nice next year and the rental car companies are offering EVs at much cheaper prices to ICE cars. It looks like I can charge with Allego with a card?
"Moral of the story – if you get an EV in the UK and there’s the slightest chance you may go to Scotland at some point – get the card anyway."
Yes, this is exactly my situation, which is why the failure of the card (and app) and the failure of the company to even try to do anything about it is rather disappointing.
Using the CPS website via a smart phone we did manage to get some charge but even that was shonky. Had to use a emergency button on the charger to disconnect (didn't know the car key unlock might have worked, thanks for whoever suggested that - the car's own app didn't do the job).
But as I said, in England, just tap the phone and you're away. Mind you it's more expensive too.
OP- I agree that CPS is largely poor, I had a fail trying to use it in St Andrews a few weeks ago. Locally the BP ones on the Queensway are fast, well priced and just need a credit or debit card apparently, though I haven't used them.
We did a trip to Silverstone a few weeks ago, probably charged up as top ups 5 or 6 times overall, never in Scotland, and every experience was easy, simple and one touch with credit card. I had been a little worried in advance as almost all our charging in a year of having an EV has been at home, but I needn't have been, as easy as a petrol or diesel top up and no more time consuming as combined battery top ups with comfort breaks.
Again I’ll use my Mrs as an example of someone who can’t get her head around the difference between a micro USB and USB-C phone charging cable. She’d have a meltdown trying to charge an electric car if she read the instructions
My MiL once asked if she should get an EV for the sake of the environment. She doesn't do enough miles to warrant it, but on top of that, she cannot and will not even read a text message because it's too complicated. Smartphones would be completely beyond the pale. There's just no way she could manage an EV!
I can’t think of a single example of anything which is improved by having to do it on an app. At least for the user.
This in general +1
Why no one had a manifesto commitment to ban parking apps is a mystery.
I've zero issue with cashless parking, but just make it a contactless card reader.
I bought some coffee online from a member of a different forums new business (it's actually really nice which was a surprise) and at the end of the purchase it made me download an app! GET IN THE F*****G SEA! I'm not registering with yet another app to buy a kilo of coffee once in a blue moon.
At the risk of being labelled a CPS evangelist they are often the only option available if you are going off the beaten track away from sizeable towns or the main trunk road network. There are CPS chargers in places where commercial operators wouldn’t dream of installing them as it wouldn’t be commercially viable.
Yes, it can be a bit shonky at times (again, usually due to the owners of the chargers, rather than CPS themselves) but my experience has been much more good than bad.
Off topic but on the issue of parking apps; I like the fact that I can extend the length of time on my parking while sitting in the coffee shop. Beats the old days of popping out to put more money in the meter.
+1
Parking Apps are ace IMO, folk who hate them probably never travelled & parked much nor had the constant issue of not having change.
At the risk of being labelled a CPS evangelist
Someone's gotta be :-). As a practical matter, if you're planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?
For those that have one, Octopus electroverse card works on CPS network
Excellent. You saved me 12 quid 🙂
Parking apps are ace
Not so ace when the car park is in an area with no phone signal (yes, Craster, I'm looking at you).
Took a wander back down to the bays there with the dog just to see if we had missed some obvious instructions. I'm guessing these are very old chargers based on the very basic LCD screen? I've seen the big fancy ones at petrol stations with big ipad type screens that I'm guessing are easy to use
The screen is telling us to touch a card, but no mention of what card it is and there's nothing on the box that tells you that.
There is a sign on the box with a bunch of blurb that mentions 5 different organisations:
London & Scottish Property, Eureka Solutions, Energy Savings Trust, Charge Place Scotland, Charge and Go
No mention of an app, website address or a card that's needed, just a phone number
Zero instructions on how to use the charging point at all
Presumably the new station car park will have some easy to use new one
Loads of charging bays apparently!
As a practical matter, if you’re planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?
There’s always another charger somewhere. Always.
Zapmap or similar will tell you where. Never leave myself with insufficient charge to travel to a few alternatives.
I also always carry the granny charger and a 15m IP65 rated extension in the frunk so that I just need a 13amp socket. Never had to use it but there are an almost infinite supply of fuel sources if you’re not in a hurry.
Also, with a 300-ish mile range you’ll struggle to find anywhere in the UK that’s more than 150 miles from the main road network and commercial rapid charging.
It’s really never been an issue, never mind a problem.
No mention of an app, website address or a card that’s needed, just a phone number
Yet you didn't call the number - who would have been able to advise!
My MiL once asked if she should get an EV for the sake of the environment. She doesn’t do enough miles to warrant it, but on top of that, she cannot and will not even read a text message because it’s too complicated. Smartphones would be completely beyond the pale. There’s just no way she could manage an EV!
Yes she could. It might take someone a little bit of time to show her / set her up, but you can use an EV without a smartphone, or even a text message. My father is my benchmark for "ludite" (he doesn't even like using an ATM) but I'm certain that I could show him once how you use my EV and he'd be fine - he might not be getting the best deal but he'd be able to charge it, and although he hates talking on the phone he'd be quite content that if there's an issue there's a phone number to call and a human being, in Scotland, answers the call and is familiar with all the common problems. Apps open up a wider range of chargers but 4 years ago most of them didn't exist and it was viable then.
As a practical matter, if you’re planning a trip, how do you cope with not being able to rely on a charger working when you need fuel ?
As a dinosaur burner, how do you cope with not being able to rely on every petrol station having the flavour of juice you want / open at the times you want? In rural areas filling stations are not 24/7 and sometimes are out of a particular fuel. It would be rare to be somewhere in scotland today where there was only a single charger and no (probably much slower) alternative somewhere you can get to. In the worst case if you can get to somewhere to plug in a 3 pin plug you can add about 8-10 miles per hour of charge on a typical EV. There is an initiative called co-charger which lets your rent out your home charger to other people - not sure its caught on much but seems the ideal solution. Obviously you can contrive a situation where there is a powercut and the whole area is cut off just at the time you have no juice left yourself... but then your petrol station probably can't pump fuel then either.
Like a lot of things in life it's complex if you don't know what to expect and aren't prepared. The only reason filling with diesel is so easy is because we've all done it lots of times before.
Buy a Tesla.
They use CCS , so do most new cars so it’s not at all like USB-C, micro etc etc.
All new cars use CCS in Europe.The situation in the USA is far worse than here and yes, it is pretty messed up. There, the manufacturers have tried to roll out their own networks or partner with other companies which may not work with other cars and, incredibly, there are multiple types of connectors. Not only are there far fewer chargers than here, but lots of them don't work with your car!
As for having a broken charger when you need fuel - just don't run it down too low. If you're sensible then you'll have enough charge to get somewhere else even in Scotland. In defence of the Scottish govt they have done a good job of making sure this is the case. Even if the chargers are old and slow, they are still there. I suppose that due to the remoteness of large parts of the country the government is well used to taking an active role in ensuring infrastructure is there. I wish the Welsh Govt had done the same thing. Driving from South to North Wales on the A470 is a bit dicey - although in fairness you do have an alternative.
Not so ace when the car park is in an area with no phone signal
Last time I had this problem I discovered that the car park machine had its own public WiFi hotspot - worth a check.
Yet you didn’t call the number – who would have been able to advise!
But I don't have to phone someone when I'm putting petrol or diesel in a car. Plus nothing actually said "call this number and we'll tell you how it works". Would the phones be answered at 7pm on a Sunday night? Nothing mentions a 24/7 phone service. What if you don't have your phone on you, or no signal?
My promise of a 48h response from CPS was sent by them on Friday evening, so that’s 60h now without a peep.
I wouldn't hold your breath. I signed up on 30th May (and ordered the card). As per my previous post, I had to chase them to send the card out, have subsequently responded to two separate emails from them after I reported the card was not working, and I am still waiting for an update.
The selling point of the CPS card is supposed to be reliable access where mobile data may not be available, but I've had more success with the CPS app; just downloaded it and charged the car without any problems. I think the problem is not the chargers, but CPS admin and customer service. My Electroverse card worked first time, with no issues.
But I don’t have to phone someone when I’m putting petrol or diesel in a car.
You also don't have to phone them to put electricity in a car. If you go to an unmanned petrol station (all ASDAs?) then I'm sure there's some mechanism to call for help if you can't work out the system / have never fueled a car before and have done zero research.
Plus nothing actually said “call this number and we’ll tell you how it works”. Would the phones be answered at 7pm on a Sunday night? Nothing mentions a 24/7 phone service
Yes it is manned 24/7 365. You can easily confirm that by typing the 10 digits into your phone and pressing the green button!
The situation in the USA is far worse than here and yes, it is pretty messed up.
Not really, they're pretty much standardised on NACS going forward, which is a neater solution than CCS but doesn't accommodate the 3 phase AC that hardly anyone uses for car charging in the UK.
Also have nothing against electric cars (except when they sneak up on you when you're on your bike) but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy. When electric cars/chargers get that fast and also sell chocolate (and become cheap enough that I can afford) then I will consider one 🙂
Despite being IT savvy I know I would lose the plot if I had any sort of issue at a charging station. Bad enough with the petrol station clerk hasn't noticed you and activated the pump within 3 seconds!
In the worst case if you can get to somewhere to plug in a 3 pin plug you can add about 8-10 miles per hour of charge on a typical EV.
AAMOI have you ever done that? Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible? Only case I can imagine is that you rock up to Back O’Beyond planning to charge in the evening, discover that the CPS charger is broken, and you beg your hotel to let you charge overnight from a plug.
Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible?
Caravan site, Air BNB, Log cabin, rented accommodation , relatives house…anywhere that you’re staying overnight and your car is sitting parked for an extended period of time.
I’ve charged the car using the granny charger loads of times when I’m at my static caravan. Never had to use it in an emergency though.
edit: Except one time where an electric works van was run flat by an idiot who ignored all the warnings and I had to plug the granny charger into the V2L on my car for an hour to put enough charge in the van to get it to a charger.
In defence of CPS customer service I had a good interaction when I used them. I was trying to get a card for when I visit my mum but they don't send them abroad to me in Ireland and the online system wouldn't accept my mums uk postal address as it differs from the billing address for me. Lady on the phone was very helpful getting everything set up and arranged for the card to go to my mums so it would be there when I got there. It arrived within a week. Not actually used it yet but next week will be the acid test......
anywhere that you’re staying overnight
Yes. That was essentially the case I described. A long way from just plugging in for a bit to get you on your journey.
For the record, I’m an EV owner and I love my car, but you (one) really have to adjust your thinking when driving with the charging network at present. You can’t just turn off down a side road and say “I wonder where this goes “.
You can’t just turn off down a side road and say “I wonder where this goes “.
Course you can…unless you’re also the type of person who’s ever walked to a petrol station to buy a plastic can to fill after you’ve run out in the middle of nowhere.
ICE cars can also be driven by idiots who lack forward planning skills.
Also have nothing against electric cars (except when they sneak up on you when you’re on your bike) but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy. When electric cars/chargers get that fast and also sell chocolate (and become cheap enough that I can afford) then I will consider one 🙂
On the other hand, it takes me less than 2 seconds to connect my car whenever I get home and each morning its fully charged. I can't go 700 miles without needing a pee and a coffee at least twice probably three times so that would be unnecessary.
AAMOI have you ever done that? Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible? Only case I can imagine is that you rock up to Back O’Beyond planning to charge in the evening, discover that the CPS charger is broken, and you beg your hotel to let you charge overnight from a plug.
In 4 years of EV ownership my wife has never found herself needing to use the granny cable, I don't think she's ever been below 15% charge.
In 2 years of EV ownership I have never found myself using the granny cable. I've been in single digit % getting home but with the certainty of a home charger. Its our backup plan for holiday cottages etc if the public charge is broken - but it never has been.
My wife's cousin came up from down south without understanding CPS wouldn't take his company "fuel" card and left it charging in his father in laws garage over night. They could easily have used our home charger (or our CPS card).
A friend paid a campsite (he wasn't using) to leave his car on a granny charger all day whilst he went hill walking.
As a general rule - I think the same sort of people that would help give you a lift to a petrol station if you ran out or in a rural area would syphon some from their own tank are the sort of people who would help you get plugged in.
RE 3 pin plug..Can you conceive of a situation where it might be feasible?
Yeah, loads!!
In Eftelling in the Netherlands I plugged the Polestar in (cable through the window of the acommodation) for the 70 minutes my car was allowed near the accomodation to pack up and leave. Added a few more miles with zero input from me after the initial 'plug it in'!
When I had the Leaf, I plugged in to the Air BnB we stayed in in the new forest (again, through the window). Filled it to the brim overnight..again, zero input required from me once plugged in.
Would charge the Leaf at my in-laws via the 3pin for a few hours - topped it up enough to get me home again without stopping en route..
Have plugged the Leaf into a hotel's patio-plug overnight (got their permission) - again to top it up enough to get home without needing a charger en route..
DrP
Yeah, loads!!
But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you're running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they're all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight. As I said, I'm a happy EV owner, but reduced range and uncertain charging facilities do have an impact.
the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy
Since when is refuelling time the main priority? Does it really matter if you have to wait 20 mins? (Answer: no, it doesn't)
Re the granny charger, I've used it at my parents (who are grandparents, hence the name) a few times, we also used it when we stayed at a caravan that one time. We arrived with about 25%, but we knew we were staying on-site or only driving very locally for the next 4 days so it went on the granny and was fully charged when we left.
But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you’re running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they’re all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight.
Forgive me for being prepared!
In fairness, I've never had to urgently dash to a petrol station whilst running on fumes in an ICE car either..
I guess the point being that with a bit of planning, you can avoid most catastrophes.
Case in point - my OH refuses to plan anything, so is forever running out of juice (it turns out you can go at least 8 miles on ZERO charge in a Leaf), forever getting parking tickets and bus lane tickets, and is always in a late rush...
DrP
poly yep overnight charging works well and I would be able to do 99% of my driving that way
molgrips 20 minutes is a lot when you have little free time or are in a rush. Have the time and combine with a comfort stop then sure that's fine
molgrips 20 minutes is a lot when you have little free time or are in a rush
Sure, but when you're late enough anything can be a lot, and you can always be late enough to not make it. Your day shouldn't be planned around 4 minute fuel stops. If it is then something has gone badly wrong.
There's more at stake here than saving people a few minutes on their 4-5hr drives.
We frequently use hire cars at work for business trips and every so often someone gets given an EV which usually results in similar tales of how hard it is to use an EV. Add in that the car should be returned “full” and it’s then even an issue to charge back up at the end of the journey, just when people want to throw the keys back and go home after a long day(s) away.
Can anyone else confirm this? Is this a policy for all hire companies?
If so, that's a hard "no" from me for ever renting an RV! I find it stressful enough returning a hire car with a full tank of petrol or diesel and having enough time to drop car off before my homeward flight! No way would I want to be stressing out about topping up an EV on a hard deadline...
We are away in Shropshire and today I used my first public charger off the Tesla Network. I got to the Sainsburys Smartchargers in Ludlow and selected my charger, got my contactless payment approved, plugged in and nothing.
Tried again. Nothing. So I changed charger and tried to get authorisation again and that was declined. Whipped my Electoverse card out and that didn’t work. In the end I used a credit card and got a successful charge, but it wasn’t the best introduction to non Tesla public charging.
Will be back again in a couple of days so I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed.
I've driven an Electric var the last 5 years, and put 100, 000 miles on one. You get used to it real fast, and I cant ever imagine going back to an ICE car.
I do most of my changing at home that helps a lot, but I've got 4 apps on my phone to cover fast charging , and thats how it is.
But none of those cases correspond to the situation where you’re running out of juice in the middle of nowhere, they’re all about controlled situations where you can top up overnight.
Because in reality running out of charge in the middle of nowhere doesn't happen unexpectedly as often as people think! The time it is probably most likely is if you are planning to arrive at your destination very low and then discover that the local charger is out of action. In those situations a 3 pin plug at your accomodation will sort you out. Presumably if you were just needing a 20 mile boost a restaurant or somewhere you were in a meeting could help you out of a crisis. But those situations arise when you go to rural areas in an ICE car too.
So @dlr if 99% of your charging works on overnight then the 1% really won't matter when you need to charge on the road - those will be 200 mile+ journeys so you should be taking a break for safety anyway.
@vlad - i'd assume that if you return empty that you pay for recharging at a premium just like you would with an ICE car - but compared to the fastest motorway chargers might not be that expensive. It presumably can't be 100% unless there's a chargepoint on site.
but the other day it took me about 4 minutes to add 700 miles range to my oil burner and that included deciding which chocolate to buy.
Takes around 30 seconds to add 240 miles to my leccy car, as that’s how long it takes me to plug it in when I get home and unplug it the next morning fully replenished.
For times when I’m out on the road, more often than not, the car is ready before I am. And if not, I’m probably still up on time through not having to go to a petrol station every week.