[Closed] Election Campaign

How does the BBC allow someone to pose the question about immigration and pressure on public services? Complete xenophobic nonsense.

It's fair to say that intelligence wasn't the first word that sprang to mind.

I was genuinely surprised with how badly Farage preformed last night. For someone who is reputed to be a man of the people who has the common touch it was breathtakingly stupid of him to have, completely unnecessarily, attacked the audience.

I know some claim that with falling support in the opinion polls for UKIP Farage is aiming merely to shore up UKIP's remaining support and not looking at winning friends or attracting new support, but that strategy in itself is pretty dumb as the UKIP is only predicted to win 2 seats (exactly the same as it had before Parliament was dissolved) given its current level of support in the opinion polls.

They desperately need to win a significant increase in support, approaching the level they received in the EU election when they were the largest party, and the seats will start rolling in.

Farage seems to have given up weeks before the general election.

Farage shares a problem common to many politicians - he's had very little experience talking to people who don't agree with him.

1) The Plaid leader got destroyed by a student on Radio 1 earlier this week. Embarrassing wasn't the word.

2) Farage isn't appealing to lefty voters so attacking the event last night for being a left wing stitch up, probably won't lose votes from UKIP voters.

3) The way things are looking currently no one will be able to hold together a majority, Stirling will tank off a cliff and we could all end up voting again shortly and be worse off overall.

4) Anyone know if Greece are likely to fall out of the Euro before the election? As that could shake things up somewhat. Still plenty of time for events to change the result.

Thanks for the advice Ernie. Oddly enough, I did read it. But yet again perspective is what is required rather than strangling evidence to create false points.

The main conclusions - little if any significant impact on employment or wages. Main drivers are other factors - really?!? Where's the feather to knock me over with?

Better not tell Nige, he's struggling enough just now.

4) Anyone know if Greece are likely to fall out of the Euro before the election? As that could shake things up somewhat. Still plenty of time for events to change the result.

I was discussing this earlier today. Grexit pressure becoming more and more obvious. Preparations to limit the damage are now broadly in place. Greek bond yields going north. So who, if anyone, would benefit from the subsequent volatility? Probably those with a euro sceptic tendency.

THM- I'm not confused thanks. You seem to be missing my point.

If one aspect of immigration is to drive down the wages of migrants already here then surely this aspect of immigration is a bad thing for the country.

@ben, that's all deliberate to keep him out of the public eye for the reasons I said, he's toxic in he UK. There's no doubt he'll be the leader/spokesperson of the Westminster SNP group. Labour are indeed in a tricky place, the perception they sided with the Tories in the referendum (hats off to the SNP for spinning that one) has been very bad for them in Scotland and any deal with the SNP post an election will be equally bad for them in England.

@dragon - Greece is unlikely to formally fall out of the euro by May 7th, not least as I think they will back down as an exit will be catastrophic for the country and not what the Syriza supporters want. Also payment timing is such they can probably struggle on a bit - they have been raiding private pensions for example. Things are looking quite dodgy though, story today that Greek bank subsiduaries in other EU countries have been told they cannot hold Greek bonds or put money on deposit with their head office in Greece in both cases as the risk of default is too great.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Its bad news for those concerned though.

But the evidence on immigration points - at the country level that you are interested in - to a marginal positive impact on wages. As in most things - winners and losers at the individual level though.

So we should be focusing on issues that matter and supported by evidence not UKIP make believe. Still we prefer to describe things as taxes when they are not, mix debt and deficit at will, and bandy "austerity" around with gay abandon. Is there an election on? 😉

dragon - Member

2) Farage isn't appealing to lefty voters so attacking the event last night for being a left wing stitch up, probably won't lose votes from UKIP voters.

Even when it's pointed out to him that the audience was selected not by the BBC but by an independent polling company on the bases of a representative sample of British voters?

Farage was in effect attacking a cross section of British opinion, the British pubic in other words.

UKIP is losing support, I'm unlikely to be the only one who thought his attack of the audience was unwarranted and counterproductive. The principle aim of the party leaders in last night's debate was to win greater support for their parties, [i]"probably won't lose votes from UKIP voters"[/i] is a poor justification for Farage's outburst.

If one aspect of immigration is to drive down the wages of migrants already here then surely this aspect of immigration is a bad thing for the country.

Lower wages are bad for the prior generation of immigrants. They are good for the businesses/employer in terms of lower costs/greater profits. Perhaps good for the consumer who can buy a product more cheaply if the businesses reduces it prices. Bad for the country in that lower wages probably leads to higher welfare costs and a lower tax base on which to provide public services.

Even when it's pointed out to him that the audience was selected not by the BBC but by an independent polling company on the bases of a representative sample of British voters?

Farage shares a problem common to many politicians - he's had very little experience talking to people who don't agree with him.

To be fair most politicians have far more experience talking to people who don't agree with them than the average person. It kind of goes with the territory.

@daz - its very hard to turn these polls (where they ask around 1000 people) into potential results at the GE. UKIP poll 14% but will get 2-4 seats. LibDems poll 7% and will probably get 30-40 seats. There are some very local effects and in any case the polls require people to tell the truth about how they voted last time and how they intend to vote in May. That's why this election is so hard to call. All to play for.

Farage's estimates for spending don't seem to cater for a drop in GDP caused by leaving the EU. Is there likely to be one?

Hard to say @molgrips, there could be arguments both ways. Could be a big uptick in corporation tax by declaring all tax treaties with Lux and Ireland void for example, extra taxes on online stores outside the UK ? More businesses locating back to the UK ?

I personally think there would be a drop in the short term due to uncertainty but all the scrambling around and re-organization would create an uptick in business for accountants and lawyers for example. Longer term hard to say as that would be dependent upon the trade pacts which would be negotiated, Germans are still going to want to sell us lots of cars.

That's why this election is so hard to call. All to play for.

I agree actually, everyone assumes a hung parliament is a foregone conclusion but I wouldn't be at all surprised if one side ends up with a tiny overall majority. having said that, it looks very unlikely, and in the event of a hung parliament, the tories are looking very isolated.

He must have a bloody boring time then!

I'm sick to death of hearing about this bloody election - especially as I can't influence the results in any way and yet the outcome is bound to have some (probably negative) effect on me.

This. St. Helens North is such a solid Labour seat that they don't really have to try. I'll still vote but to be honest it is absolutely pointless. Shave a chimp, pin a red rosette on it and it would still get a massive majority.

Milliband was correct about EU if not for the correct reasons.

The EU brings tremendous benefits and remains our biggest trading partner. Its four pillars of freedom also bring huge benefits to the UK. Lab did well, ok Ed and Gordi did well, to avoid the € folly. That's the bit that clearly doesn't work.

We should be strongly supporting the EU along with its four freedoms of movement - people, goods, services and capital - and fight those who seek to prevent them.

I understand the vocal support for the SNP was quite strong in the room, interesting that given the event was in Westminster

So the nasty separatists had rigged the audience and bussed in some cheerleaders?

It couldn't just be that people liked what Nicola Sturgeon said then?

What would William of Ockham say?

I understand the vocal support for the SNP was quite strong in the room, interesting that given the event was in Westminster

You really think the SNP bussed a load of stooges down to London and smuggled them into the audience? What would be the point?

It's much more likely that people actually like a lot of what Sturgeon was saying. For ages people have been jokingly calling for a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper - well, for English voters, perhaps Sturgeon is that option.

I though they were talking about "spoiling" their voting slips - wouldn't that be more appropriate?

The applause seemed more for the "get out of jail free" cards that were being offered.

I agree actually, everyone assumes a hung parliament is a foregone conclusion but I wouldn't be at all surprised if one side ends up with a tiny overall majority. having said that, it looks very unlikely, and in the event of a hung parliament, the tories are looking very isolated.

Not impossible but it'd mean the polls are very wrong. Labour would need to do better than forecast in England as well as hugely better than forecast in Scotland to get a majority. A Tory majority seems even less likely although they could still be the biggest party.

Most likely scenario for me still seems to be a Labour minority government propped up by the SNP and LibDems - but with the Tories being the biggest party in England and the SNP being the biggest in Scotland. Be interesting to see how that pans out if it was the case!

What is the SNP end game ? Their ultimate ambition is an independent Scotland so how would they achieve this given some kind of supporting agreement to prop up a Labour Westminster government ? If they insist on lots of concessions/deals for Scotland and get them, then won't that reduce the likelihood of a future independence referendum voting "yes" ?

Wouldn't it be in their interests to be seen has constantly getting a raw deal from Westminster ? "We tried to get X, but Labour wouldn't have it, nasty UK government".

There was some talk of this in the "spin room" after last night's debate, speculation that SNP would initially play along but then bring the government down.

Perhaps that memo was correct and SNP would prefer Cameron in No 10 🙂

SNP is in a bit of a funny position now. If they were to form an alliance with Labour, they'd be bound to represent Scotland's interests strongly of course. So then the UK would end up with strong advocates specifically for Scotland, but not for the other countries.

So you might say a coalition should be formed of SNP, Plaid and.. the DUP.. but Plaid represents a pretty small minority in Wales and the DUP aren't even the only NI specific party..

Right dog's breakfast that'd be.

What is the SNP end game ? Their ultimate ambition is an independent Scotland so how would they achieve this given some kind of supporting agreement to prop up a Labour Westminster government ? If they insist on lots of concessions/deals for Scotland and get them, then won't that reduce the likelihood of a future independence referendum voting "yes" ?

Not necessarily - the number of people in England who've said they hate the idea of "being governed by the Scots" might lead to an increase in public anti-Scottish feeling from within in England, which would then give momentum to Scottish independence in response.

At the moment nearly every possible scenario looks like it's a positive one for the SNP - except if the polls are wrong and Labour manage to hang onto a majority of seats in Scotland and can form a government without the SNP.

The best pro-union response from either the Labour party or the Tories would be to embrace the SNP into a coalition if they do become the majority party in Scotland, and re-structure Westminster to properly segregate out regional voting e.g. only English MP's voting on issues that relate to England only.

jambalaya - Member
LibDems poll 7% and will probably get 30-40 seats.

I was thinking the Lib Dems would be wiped out to single figures. (Previous election they got 23% of the vote and 57 MPs.)

What is the SNP end game ? Their ultimate ambition is an independent Scotland so how would they achieve this given some kind of supporting agreement to prop up a Labour Westminster government ?

I'm not sure it's that complicated. Another independence vote is off the agenda for a long time, certainly 10 years or more. The next best option of devo max/home rule can best be guaranteed by a powerful SNP influencing a labour govt. If the labour govt fail to deliver, then they can start demanding a new referendum vote.

[quote=dazh said]Another independence vote is off the agenda for a long time, certainly 10 years or more.

You reckon ? 🙂

You reckon ?

Absolutely. Even if the SNP were brazen enough to demand another vote as a result of a failure to deliver on devo-max, the UK govt would still have to agree to it and that's simply not going to happen when the same people who campaigned against independence are still in power.

I say you lot "[b]Debate me! Debate me! Just you and me![/b]" 😆

ctk - Member
The funniest thing from the Debate was Ed saying "Debate me, debate me David, just me and you"

😆 What is that?

That person is definitely Not a PM quality.

EEewwww ... "debate me, debate me ..." Crikey ...

Ya, from now on I shall call him Mr Debate Me, Debate me or Mr Debate me x2.

😆

wants someone to pull him off .....

Another term of Conservative government will finish off our public services.

The Greens are a middle-class liberal wet dream, all good and great in principle, but most people who support their ideas can afford to support them.

UKIP and the National Parties just want to blame other people (Immigrants, the English etc), we need less Nationalism in this world, not more.

So the only logical choice, albeit with a history of illegal warmongering and piss poor financial management, is Labour.

We're really ****ed this time aren't we 🙁

UKIP and the National Parties just want to blame other people (Immigrants, the English etc), we need less Nationalism in this world, not more.

Utter shite. Some of the people in England could do with realising that the bottom half of a tiny rock in the middle of the North Atlantic isn't the centre of the Universe.

teamhurtmore - Member
Milliband was correct about EU if not for the correct reasons.

The EU brings tremendous benefits and remains our biggest trading partner. Its four pillars of freedom also bring huge benefits to the UK. Lab did well, ok Ed and Gordi did well, to avoid the € folly. That's the bit that clearly doesn't work.

EU is just a trading partner so I don't see any reasons why you cannot trade with them if you want more control of your own border? Yes?

We should be strongly supporting the EU along with its four freedoms of movement - people, goods, services and capital - [b]and fight those who seek to prevent them.[/b]

I thought you are an intelligent person but judging from your call to war "... and fight those who seek to prevent them.", crikey you are not real are you?

I mean I used to hang around my anarchist, extreme left, communists and red armies friends they always do that ... let's prevent them this and that ... let's start a revolution ... let's kick those middle class out ... let's save the world etc ...

FFS! Stop shagging the women and get some work done will you! I am not cleaning the kitchen for you nor am I going to keep the place tidy for you. (we shared a house btw)

Bunch of detached idealistic utopian womanizers ... ya, all they do is trying impress the opposite sex and try to get to their knickers.

Guess what ... they are so rich now I wonder where's that save the world shite they used to talk about. I mean they are rich and they even do not want to know me.

😯

I mean I used to hang around my anarchist, extreme left, communists and red armies friends they always do that ... let's prevent them this and that ... let's start a revolution ... let's kick those middle class out ... let's save the world etc ...

FFS! Stop shagging the women and get some work done will you! I am not cleaning the kitchen for you nor am I going to keep the place tidy for you.

Bunch of detached idealistic utopian womanizer ... ya, all they do is trying impress the opposite sex and try to get to their knickers.

10/10 for the rant 😀

You should've taken a leaf out of their book.

Utter shite. Some of the people in England could do with realising that the bottom half of a tiny rock in the middle of the North Atlantic isn't the centre of the Universe.

I think you just proved my point.

dazh - Member
10/10 for the rant

You should've taken a leaf out of their book.

Which page? I am not good at pulling nor am I good at "saving" the world.

😀

Some of the people in England could do with realising that the bottom half of a tiny rock in the middle of the North Atlantic isn't the centre of the Universe.

It's bit more than a tiny rock though isn't it? For starters it has a lot of other rocks elsewhere. Has provided the world with the language and dress of business the world over. Sits at the top table of the UN, big player in NATO, has important voices in top tier banking and legal rights. Big contributor to the EU. Big player in the Olympic movement and other sports like football. And who's global culture has spread around the world good and bad (Rolling Stones vs One Direction). And just today Rolls-Royce won a £6.1 billion contract to supply plane engines.

You can pretend it isn't important, and it certainly isn't centre of the Universe (where is) but it has way more clout than the majority of places worldwide.

and dress of business the world over

Oh great. So the nondescript business suit with silly thing round the neck pointing to your genitals is our fault?

Big player in the Olympic movement and other sports like football

?

For starters it has a lot of other rocks elsewhere. Has provided the world with the language and dress of business the world over. Sits at the top table of the UN, big player in NATO, has important voices in top tier banking and legal rights. Big contributor to the EU. Big player in the Olympic movement and other sports like football. And who's global culture has spread around the world good and bad (Rolling Stones vs One Direction). And just today Rolls-Royce won a £6.1 billion contract to supply plane engines.

Are you saying that they are all good things?

Good lunch?

Free trade within one of the world's largest trading blocks as a starter

Its a metaphorical fight - I have a libertarian bias, so the concept of freedom of movement is very appealing. So not sure about "prevent", more like "allow"

Personally I think the UK does more good in a lot of those than not. Sure no ones perfect, but compared to the way others run things we are a model to look up to.

UKIP and the National Parties just want to blame other people (Immigrants, the English etc), we need less Nationalism in this world, not more.

In Scotland at least, nationalism is all about civic nationalism, not ethnic. It's not in the slightest about blaming the English - and the fact that some English people insist on seeing it like that says a lot more about them than it does about Scotland.

What's the SNP's end plan? I don't think they have one, any more than Labour or the Tories have an end plan. They used to be a single-issue party the way UKIP are, but now they're much broader than that, taking over the centre-left ground that Labour abandoned. And who knows from here? If the SNP do well this election, might they stand candidates in the North of England next time?

Scottish independence, at least for me (and I'm not a SNP member) wasn't an end point, it was a means to an end. there might be other ways to get that same result without full Scottish independence - at the moment I doubt it, but it's possible.

What I think we're really moving towards is a more loose coalition of states. The Tories lost Scotland a generation ago, Labour lost Scotland last September, but more importantly the electoral map after May 7th will look very different either side of the border. We are still a Kingdom for the moment, we are very far from being United.

teamhurtmore - Member

Good lunch?

Free trade within one of the world's largest trading blocks as a starter

Its a metaphorical fight - I have a libertarian bias, so the concept of freedom of movement is very appealing. So not sure about "prevent", more like "allow"

Yes, good lunch indeed because I had smoke sprats. I bought them from my local Polish/Eastern European mini supermarket.

Now, you are being "entrepreneurial" ...

You want to tell the people how to run their business? Shouldn't you just let the business people adjust accordingly?

Trade does not simply vanish because we are out of EU you know. If you think investors are going to leg it because we are out of EU then think again.

😯

but compared to the way others run things we are a model to look up to.

You sound like my dad when he goes on a rant about how all the darkies couldn't run their own countries after we left them to it.

😯 Indeed

No I want people to be free to run their business - 180 degree difference

No it doesn't - but google pros and cons of trading blocs - any A level revision site will do. We don't do it just for fun.

Google - Japan, China and US views on UK position in Europe

Ben looking at the voting map don't you mean urban or metropolitan nationalism? The vote was very, very concentrated

In Scotland at least, nationalism is all about civic nationalism, not ethnic. It's not in the slightest about blaming the English - and the fact that some English people insist on seeing it like that says a lot more about them than it does about Scotland

As an Ulsterman, to be accused of being one of those "* English *****" during that period wasn't particularly pleasant.

teamhurtmore - Member

Indeed

No I want people to be free to run their business - 180 degree difference

No it doesn't - but google pros and cons of trading blocs - any A level revision site will do. We don't do it just for fun.

Google - Japan, China and US views on UK position in Europe

Of course multinationals (from Japan, China, US etc) want to say something because they are multinationals that want to dominate the trade. They want to monopolise to prevent smaller businesses from emerging. That's business.

Yes, you can go on about how they create jobs etc but they are experts in business so they should adopt to the changes. But being multinationals and too big to fail they now want to muscle in to influence govt policy?

Ya, right ... so you rather let multinational corporations dictate how a country should be run? See you are not really thinking properly aren't you? Rather inconsistent there with your lefty arguments.

🙄

Blimey, blaming the English is a national sport in Scotland especially in the SNP and during the referendum debate. You hear it day in day out. How could we (the English) think any differently.

Rather inconsistent there with your lefty arguments.

😀 Bloody communists!

Ben looking at the voting map don't you mean urban or metropolitan nationalism? The vote was very, very concentrated

dazh - Member

Rather inconsistent there with your lefty arguments.

Bloody communists!

No, that's a rather poor communist. Actually not even a communist.

In fact it's more like him/her being confused of his/her own ideology.

😆

I think I will leave it at the, "really was a good lunch" stage other than...

....yes, they do adapt to changes, so you have answered your own question, albeit in a contradictory manner.

Anyway, aside from the amusing arguments about whether THM is a raging lefty, this Coalition of Chaos thing is very funny. No doubt someone in tory HQ is feeling very pleased with themselves for thinking up that one. I'm expecting a menacing attack ad any time now with the evil empire theme tune from star wars and Miliband and Sturgeon dressed as the emperor and Darth Vader.

teamhurtmore - Member

I think I will leave it at the, "really was a good lunch" stage other than...

....yes, they do adapt to changes, so you have answered your own question, albeit in a contradictory manner.

Jesusss! (pronounce the Spanish way)

If your views are representative of all lefty views you have just played right into the hands of multinationals. Well done. You just help kill off all the small businesses.

😯

I think there needs to be two

😯 😯

I say you lot "Debate me! Debate me! Just you and me!"

ctk - Member
The funniest thing from the Debate was Ed saying "Debate me, debate me David, just me and you"
What is that?

That person is definitely Not a PM quality.

EEewwww ... "debate me, debate me ..." Crikey ...

Ya, from now on I shall call him Mr Debate Me, Debate me or Mr Debate me x2.

Ah my memory of what he said wasn't perfect. Second clip down on this page is what he actually says. "Debate me one on one" X

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32328664 ]Debate me x[/url]

UKIP and the National Parties just want to blame other people (Immigrants, the English etc), we need less Nationalism in this world, not more.

Ok some of the SNP support will of course be anti-English (just as much of the hatred of the SNP comes from people who are themselves anti-Scots) however it's a fallacy to think it's an England v Scotland thing. In fact for many/most people it's about a lack of representation from Westminster and I'm sure many other parts of the UK (including parts of England that are themselves distant from Westminster) feel the same way.

If your views are representative of all lefty views you have just played right into the hands of multinationals.

Yes THM is a typical multinational-loving lefty. And who hates small businesses of course.

Anyway Chewwy can you expand on why the Green Party is out of touch with reality and why UKIP is the only sensible choice?

😯

I know its a bit one dimensional but some of those distant from Westminster who feel they are not represented need to understand how much money Westminster (which is made up of MPs from through the UK remember) sends their way in terms of Government jobs, NHS, infrastruture spending, welfare etc

.....need to understand how much money Westminster (which is made up of MPs from through the UK remember) sends their way in terms of Government jobs, NHS, infrastruture spending, welfare etc

I put it down to the extortionate parking charges in Westminster, no wonder it's awash with money.

I know its a bit one dimensional but some of those close to Westminster who feel they are representing us need to understand how much money people outside Westminster (which is made up of MPs from through the UK remember) sends their way in terms of Government jobs, NHS, infrastruture spending, welfare etc.

There are 60 odd million people in the UK - less than a quarter of those live in London...

ernie_lynch - Member
Yes THM is a typical multinational-loving lefty. And who hates small businesses of course.

I think he is just too idealistic. Aahhh bless him/her ... 😆

Anyway Chewwy can you expand on why the Green Party is out of touch with reality and why UKIP is the only sensible choice?

Not sure why but the other day I was strangely attracted to Caroline Lucas for few minutes not sure why. I feel dirty and shame thinking about it.

Why I think Green Party is out of touch? I just think they are thinking too big i.e. trying to save the world and all that ...

I prefer UKIP because they present a view that big is not necessary beautiful i.e. EU, and that we should have more control of our border which makes sense.

Those are just my views and you can explore that in details if you wish but for me that's enough.

😛

I think he is just too idealistic. Aahhh bless him/her ...

Yep, a typical head-in-the-clouds lefty.

And the Green Party is just too ambitious and needs to be like small thinking UKIP?

We need to squash big ideas and think small.

ernie_lynch - Member
We need to squash big ideas and think small.

Yeap. It's easier to change yourself rather than to change the world.

Bloody hell I think I have a wisdom! 😆

It's easier to change yourself rather than to change the world

Never a truer word spoken.

And if at first you don't succeed try and try again, then quit. There's no point being a damn fool about it.

Walks home whistling the "Red Flag" 😉

Have a good weekend all!

Even being a bit biased, I'd say [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/17/tories-increasingly-panic-stricken-says-top-ed-miliband-adviser ]this pretty much hits the nail on the head[/url] on the current state of play. No doubt the tories will say the change in campaign themes was planned but it really does look like they're making it up on the hoof and I don't think that's going to translate into votes.

From the above link :

Axelrod – who is said to be earning £300,000 to give his advice

.........He is due to return to Britain on 26 April for the campaign run-in.

Labour Party politicians are so incapable of selling Labour policies, and their vision of Britain to the British people, that they have to give staggering amounts of money to a foreigner who has no vote and doesn't even live here to do it for them.

The vast bulk of money in the Labour Party's coffers comes from pennies collected in the form of the political levy from ordinary working people's trade union subs.

Ed Miliband thinks it's a good idea to give almost a third of a million pounds of it to a wealthy American in return for doing a job which apparently requires such a light touch that the man with the Wild West name won't even need to be in the country until just 10 days before the general election.

Perhaps since senior Labour politicians are clearly incapable without outside help of one of the basic requirements that comes with the job, ie, "convincing people and winning elections", they could use the services of Mr Axelrod to help them run the country should they win the general election?

After all it makes sense that the man who helped them run their general election campaign should also help them run the country. He could pop over for a few days at a time to see how they are getting on and return home with suitcases of presumably tax-free cash.

I can understand this sort of bollocks from the Conservative Party as it deals with the perennial conundrum of how it get ordinary working people to vote for them - someone with the marketing skills to get people to buy things which they neither need nor want obviously has something useful to offer them.

But for the Labour Party to rely on these tactics really speaks volumes on how the party has evolved. There really is no discernible difference between the two parties. Such is the legacy of Tony Blair.

Or the legacy of those who vote.....?

You think "those who vote" are happy with the state of British politics and the choices they have?

What do you think all this talk about hung parliaments, minority governments, and coalitions, is all about?

Who mentioned happy? I was talking about your point on legacy.

It's about folk wanting the debt filled mirage of growth to continue and being unhappy with those (who will ultimately exercise authority) who note that it cannot. Another legacy of those who vote.

Who mentioned happy?

So people aren't happy with the state of British politics? Well here's something we can both agree with.

Watched David Cameron on the AM show this morning. First time I've seen Marr in "attack dog" mode being bested. Cameron kept calm, kept his head and controlled the interview to his advantage. Marr was made to look like a shouty nitwit. Impressive.

If keeping calm under pressure is a leadership requirement, Sten 10, then.

Yes watched Marr for first time in years this morning and after my Cameron comments earlier. For the first time, he sounded like a true PM this election and handled the difficult points pretty well. May be the tide might just turn - the 23 seats point was quite compelling.

Nice to see Vince wheeled out at last too.

Whilst I share the distaste in the labour party dishing out huge amounts of cash to Axelrod, and question the value of doing so, I question why they should need to restrict themselves in their campaigning effort when they're opponents are given free reign. I've got no problem with the labour party using whatever tactics they deem necessary as long as the policies are not also watered down (which they are of course, but that's a different debate). In the face of the tories peddling brazen lies, misinformation, and basically re-writing history, I've often thought the labour party should be taking a leaf out of their book.