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Aye tabloids the impartial place to get fact based articles free of polemics

Richard Littlejohn really is a disgusting piece of crap isn't he?

wrecker - Member

She will have no problems with getting another referendum (trident?). She knows it, Milliband knows it.

She'd have very little trouble getting another referendum- but as she says herself, there'd be bugger all point in just having another tilt, there needs to be significant change before there's anything to be gained. She's got no reason to call for another referundum which she'd most likely lose.

Kind of the elephant in the room, this. If you take a step back, what she wants right now isn't a referendum; it's things that make winning a referendum more likely. And while we're in the UK, making things better for Scotland within the UK.

[img] [/img]

Spot on northwind. The catch 22 is that the scots are even less likely to deliver a yes vote if their circumstances take a turn for the better and they have a louder voice in westminster.
My rather meandering point was not to underestimate how devious a politician can be to get what they want.

Right well your point makes more sense put that way, think I was just presuming you were adding to the BS rather than making a sensible point. Sorry.

Guys, the article Jambaliar linked to doesn't say what he claims he does. Anywhere. In fact the only slight thing that could be construed that way is:

Officials at City of Edinburgh council told the Guardian formal warnings were sent on Wednesday morning from Scotland’s electoral management board (EMB) to returning officers in all 32 local authorities to watch for queues forming and for any disruption or “threatening behaviour” at polling stations.

Which to be honest, you would have to be an idiot to read that and arrive where he did. Or Minitrue.

Right well your point makes more sense put that way, think I was just presuming you were adding to the BS rather than making a sensible point. Sorry.

Well the carnival of nonsense and futility nears the end - next stop "legitimacy"

To think that people have given their lives for an exercise that has become so debased

It's not that bad teamhurtmore. I confidently predict that the next government will have the support of about a third of the electorate (well of those that vote).

I found this rather appalling...

They also accused of wearing white tie when he was clearly wearing subfusc as well.

ABC = Anyone But Cameron is my stance.

The non dom owned newspapers have been an absolute disgrace with their all out attack on the democratic process and pathetic propaganda (see Littlepricks feature above).

From a monetary perspective I should be a staunch Tory voter but there is no chance, I care for my fellow man and woman, I care about the NHS, the education system and thats why I am duty bound to vote and encourage other citizens to get rid of snooty Dave and his uber rich paymasters.

next stop "legitimacy

He was pulled up for his lack of honesty on this matter [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/uk-election-ed-miliband-con-trick-number-10-says-david-cameron ]PM’s questioning of legitimacy of Labour government that would rely on support of SNP contradicted by former cabinet secretary Lord O’Donnell[/url]

Surprisingly THM has managed to refrain from using playful names for Dave in this respect and not referred to him as deceitful.

If you command a majority you are legitimate
That is it it does not have to be to the biggest party or the one with the most votes

duckman - Member
Richard Littlejohn really is a disgusting piece of crap isn't he?

It may be an honest statement reflecting his predilections... 🙂

I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

There's some housekeeping to do. 🙂

epicyclo - Member

I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

I'm not sure why, I thought you claimed to be left-wing. You do realise that either David Cameron or Ed Milliband will become Prime Minister don't you ? Just checking like.

I feel quite depressed. Although not as depressed as I was on the eve of the '97 election when it was clear that Tony Blair would become PM.

ernie_lynch - Member
I'm not sure why, I thought you claimed to be left-wing...

Don't think I've ever claimed that. Just tend to support parties that support democracy and believe they exist to serve the people rather than rule them.

Who becomes PM doesn't really matter, but for once we'll have a decent number of Scottish MPs who are not subservient to the whips of a party that tends to concentrate on a remote southern eastern corner of the UK.

Jeff Dugdale @Jefforbited · 6h 6 hours ago
#GE15 Could "selfie" soon be the new code for the Labour MP in Scotland ?

If you command a majority you are legitimate
That is it it does not have to be to the biggest party or the one with the most votes

You get the feeling he's spent his entire life encouraging her into politics, just so he can rip the piss. Mission accomplished

Don't think I've ever claimed that.

To fair on reflection I don't think you did. You claimed to be motivated by a concern for the weak and vulnerable in society which I took perhaps unfairly as meaning left-wing.

Actually it probably will matter to an extent who is next Prime Minister - Cameron or Miliband. I fully expect Miliband to do things which the Tories wouldn't get away with, just like his predecessor Tony Blair did.

Do you remember all the u-turns the Tories had to do, especially in the first half of their administration, when faced with widespread opposition ?

People will roll over and let Miliband shaft them because he will be a Labour PM and the Tories won't oppose him from a left perspective.

Just like Blair quietly introduced private firms/the market into the NHS without a squeak from anyone. If the Tories had done the same there would have been a substantial fuss.

@squirel - from the Guardian piece I linked to (pro independence activists who believe the Referendum was rigged are organizing activities around the GE poll and police are concerned about potential violence given their recent track record)

[i]Some pro-independence campaigners allege that last September’s independence referendum result was fixed .... Activists claim that voting in Thursday’s general election could also be rigged, in an effort to prevent SNP votes being properly counted.

Police and electoral officials placed the campaigners’ claims “in the context of conspiracy theories after the referendum” but are worried about the risks of trouble after recent tussles during nationalist protests at Labour election rallies in Glasgow.[/i]

@cloudnine - that's excellent, not least as their is no Sturgeon, perhaps she's in her X-fighter 😉 - reposted here as I got confused between two threads

[img] [/img]

EDIT: Referendum, I cannot see the SNP/Scotland being granted another referendum as a condition of being in a coalition government, I'm sure the SNP would want that but I don't see it happening as its very much not in Labour's interests and they can govern on a vote by vote basis if necessary. It was a Tory PM who granted the referendum which makes electoral sense given they have only 1 MP.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2015/may/07/labour-risks-failing-the-english-just-like-it-did-the-scottish

I fully expect Miliband to do things which the Tories wouldn't get away with, just like his predecessor Tony Blair did.

Oh come on Ernie. At least let us bathe in the shortlived afterglow of a defeated tory before the crushing disappointment of reality kicks in 🙂

I said at the last time that the bright side was that we could again feel good about hating the govt. This time we'll be back to disappointment and weary resignation again.

@cody, that article was hardwork. The SNP will fail the Scots in the same way as have the Conservatives and Labour as they have no hope of delivering the utopia they are promising.

At least let us bathe in the shortlived afterglow of a defeated tory

Lord Ashcroft's last poll published on Twitter. Labour/Conservative tied. Confirms the SNP as the least popular party to be involved in a government, over the various categories even more so than UKIP (assume poll taken across whole UK)

[url= http://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/596235920128516096/photo/1 ]Twitter Link[/url]

jambaliar - Member
Lord Ashcroft's last poll published on Twitter. Labour/Conservative tied. Confirms the SNP as the least popular party to be involved in a government,

I don't blame anyone in the rest of the UK for holding that opinion. The demonisation of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP by a largely non-dom owned, right-wing press has been both astonishing and sustained, especially since the first Leaders debate.

Do you not realise that only MP's from London and the South East have any democratic legitimacy. The rest are just there to keep quiet and make up the numbers, and do what their betters tell them.

Or thats certainly the impression you'd get from the horribly arrogant outpourings from the Tories, and the vile right wing press over the last week. How dare these provincials hold the opinion that some of the rest of the country is entitled to some democratic representation, for a change?!!!!

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/05/english-nationalism-tories-jingoism-lethal-englishness ]The Tories are fanning nationalism for their own short erm political aims. But once its out of the bottle....[/url]

Much like it was seen in some quarters as a failure by the Tories not to gain an overall majority given the financial disaster overseen by Labour it will be likewise a failure if Labour win less seats than the Tories.

Or maybe it could be argued that given that labour lost it's support in Scotland on the back of them doing the tories campaigning for them in the referendum, they would have undoubtedly won outright? Also considering that Cameron is now cynically undermining the union which the labour party staunchly campaigned for, any claims that labour have 'lost' need to be seen in that context.

As I said earlier, I'm expecting a completely dishonourable, undedifying and cowardly attempt to cling to power by Cameron. He'll go back on the cabinet rules he signed up to in 2010, he'll spin that he won the election, and he'll continue to undermine the union just so he can remain prime minister. He's going to try and pull the same trick as George Bush in 2001. I doubt it will work though.

SNP are perfectly entitled to sit at Westminster if elected and with me they are as popular as Sinn Fein. No one has said they not entitled to sit there. I posted the Ashcroft poll as when I said the SNP where unpopular in the UK I was derided as once again I see @scotroutes is up to the same old nonsense, boo hiss lets have some name calling eh ? It shows both Labour and Conservatives where right to distance themselves from the SNP as with their supporters and likely voters the SNP are very unpopular. Just like I said.

I would say if Cameron as head of the largest party (assuming that's the result) is perfectly entitled to try and form a government, it certainly seems justified for him to criticise the fact a Labour party with less seats could form a government with the SNP a party intent on dividing up the UK to the economic detriment of everyone particularly the Scots.

If a Cameron led formal coalition is a minority government he's perfectly entitled to try and rule like that in particular if Labour do not enter into a formal coalition with the SNP and just try and stumble along vote by vote

Lord Ashcroft's last poll published on Twitter. Labour/Conservative tied. Confirms the SNP as the least popular party to be involved in a government,
Better Together eh?

I don't blame anyone in the rest of the UK for holding that opinion. The demonisation of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP by a largely non-dom owned, right-wing press has been both astonishing and sustained, especially since the first Leaders debate.

SNP are perfectly entitled to sit at Westminster if elected and with me they are as popular as Sinn Fein.

SNP are perfectly entitled to sit at Westminster if elected and with me they are as popular as Sinn Fein. No one has said they not entitled to sit there.

Jammy - have you somehow missed the collective outpourings of the Tory party over the last couple of weeks? Every single thing that they've said has been to suggest that the SNP has no right whatsoever to determine UK government policy.

So... they'll be 'allowed' to take their seats, will they? Dave will allow it, will he? How gracious of him. As long as they don't try and do anything radical, like vote on anything. 🙄

The arrogance is breathtaking, but sadly unsurprising. Born to rule?

it certainly seems justified for him to criticise the fact a Labour party with less seats could form a government with the SNP

Yes he's perfectly entitled to voice his dislike at the situation, but it doesn't give him the right to rewrite the rules he signed up to in 2010, or to claim that he is the rightful PM when he can't demonstrate a majority in parliament, which is exactly what he's going to do.

which isn't unreasonable seeing as they have never sought to represent anywhere outside Scotland - unsurprisingly.

Seems the last [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/07/labour-one-point-lead-tories-final-icm-poll ]guardian/ICM poll[/url] figures from last night were provisional. The final version has labour on a 1 point lead instead of a tie. That's quite a turnaround seeing all previous polls had the tories in the lead. Perhaps a reflection on the tories relentless scaremongering over the SNP in the last week?

And on the subject of the campaigns, I think labour undoubtedly ran the best one. They had a plan and stuck to it, Miliband out-performed most expectations, and they remained united and well-briefed. My only criticism is that the shadow cabinet could/should have been more visible, and I've no idea what that stupid rock was all about. The tories on the other hand ran possibly the worst campaign I've seen since Michael Howard's. Puerile, scaremongering, hiding from the issues, hysterical and patronising. Do they really think all they had to do was call Miliband names and get Cameron to take his jacket off and shout a lot? The libdems ran a novel campaign. Basically abandoning any pretence at having their own policies and whoring themselves out to whoever will offer them some govt jobs. Pretty cynical really, but honest at the same time.

@kona, I do confess to being completely wound up by the SNP hence my comparisons, probably not much a confession really more a statement of the bleeding obvious. My comparisons were driven by the "we didn't organise anything" Kristalnacht and "break up the UK nationalists plus honesty and integrity issues" Sinn Fein

@binners what I hear the Tory party saying is it makes no democratic sense for the SNP to hold Labour to ransom and as such unduely influence policy in such as way as to promote their own independence agenda

unduely influence policy in such as way as to promote their own independence agenda

Why would their influence be 'undue' when the scottish people have voted for it overwhelmingly? They're going to win just about all of the seats on a vote share of >50%. If that's not a democratic mandate then I don't know what is. Yet the tories, and to fair, possibly labour (although I expect them to quickly backtrack on their 'no deals' stance) are now going to turn around and say they should be ignored?

Why would their influence be 'undue' when the scottish people have voted for it overwhelmingly? They're going to win just about all of the seats on a vote share of >50%. If that's not a democratic mandate then I don't know what is.

There are 2 SNP's here though

?

There's only one. Are you really saying they should be ignored because in the opinion of the English parties, many of the people voting for them don't really believe in their policies? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[quote=dazh ]

There are 2 SNP's here though

it makes no democratic sense for the SNP to hold Labour to ransom

So.. are the Lib Dems presently 'holding the Tories to ransom' then?

Because I'm struggling to see the difference. 40+ constituencies are about to return SNP MP's. And those constituencies are doing so, very enthusiastically I might add, as they think those MP's will best represent their interests. So in what way are they any less entitled to influence national policy than say, 40+ Tory MPs in the home counties? If they're democratically elected, they can promote whatever agenda they like. Thats their job!!

I think you, and Dave, and the rest of the Tory party may need to go and look up what 'Democracy' actually means 🙄

@binners what I hear the Tory party saying is it makes no democratic sense for the SNP to hold Labour to ransom and as such unduely influence policy in such as way as to promote their own independence agenda

Hypocritical to suggest others doing what they have just done is "undemocratic"

The advice and constitutional position is clear and unambiguous

if you command a Commons majority you are democratic even if it sa result the Tories dont like

To suggest anything else is to repeat a falsehood.
Imagine the Tories lying in about a vote...THM will be livid

[s]unduely[/s] influence policy in such as way as to promote their own [s]independence[/s] agenda

Amazing, so many countries around the world manage quite well with arrangements like this but if Westminster parties get even a sniff of having to share the power it's the greatest constitutional crisis since Prince Philip wedgied the North Korean Ambassadors grand daughter.

There are 59 MPs in Scotland out of a total of 650. The idea that 59 MPs, no matter where they are from, can hold anyone to ransom is frankly ridiculous.

What are people scared of?

I posted the Ashcroft poll

So you think gamblers give better results than polls [ which you repeatedly state you dont trust as they just do it for the money] and yet, without any sort of irony or self awareness, happily use them to prove your own view

Again you have used the thing you dont trust or believe in ...you have to be trolling/doing this for a laugh 😯

What are people scared of?

I'd suggest the people aren't scared of anything. The only people who are scared are the tories who are afraid of not being in power. Honestly, what we're currently seeing, and will see increasingly in the days ahead, from the tories and their supporters is the most brazen and transparent corruption of democratic principles, and a naked pursuit of power against all established rules and principles that we've ever seen. And to think they have the cheek of accusing labour of plotting a coup with the SNP!

[quote=wanmankylung ]There are 59 MPs in Scotland out of a total of 650. The idea that 59 MPs, no matter where they are from, can hold anyone to ransom is frankly ridiculous.
What are people scared of?

the spin, spin, spin, or untruths

[img] ?oh=104eb1644c5c621fff5dd33dbe06752a&oe=55DA0BCD[/img]

Talk about spin - the SNP will be takers not setters here. Labour does not have to do a deal at all. They do not have to go into a coalition nor offer any roles. The second most astute politician in the UK (sic) has already laid down her cards - a bluff - and Ed can now call it. He simple challenges her to vote him down. If the polls are right, Ed holds the missing trumps.

If Ed loses a vote of confidence, the blame falls on the SNP who will be letting the Tories in instead - no really - and the duped will wake up for the second round. Not a bad scenario all in all.

'd suggest the people aren't scared of anything. The only people who are scared are the tories who are afraid of not being in power. Honestly, what we're currently seeing, and will see increasingly in the days ahead, from the tories and their supporters is the most brazen and transparent corruption of democratic principles, and a naked pursuit of power against all established rules and principles that we've ever seen.

I know, I can see it coming a mile off. What I can also see is them making it stick somehow. A tiny part of me thinks that it may be a good thing because it would lead to Scotland becoming independent sooner.

wot thm said, apart from letting the torries in again being a good thing 😉

TBC kimbers (before the trolls dive in) I was writing that from Ed's position.

It's nice to see we're ending the pre-election part of the thread with everyone going completely barking mad 😆

I was writing that from Ed's position

Do you often role play while posting on here? 🙂

Excellent post Northwind !

JY I don't put much weight on the polls but others do so I posted it. That poll stat showing the SNP is very unpopular is consistent with the "pub talk" down here as I posted before but you criticized me for it so I posted a poll.

Consistent with Northwind's post above I am going for ..

Tory/Lib Dem coalition/majority with SNP doing far less well than predicted but still being the largest party in Scotland by some margin.

That poll stat showing the SNP is very unpopular

Except with the people who can, and it appears will vote for them. Who are about to deliver possibly the biggest upset in British electoral history. I'm sure all those new SNP MP's will be really upset that, according to Lord Ashcroft, nobody likes them!

Again.... have you somehow missed the last 5 years? Did you notice the massive majority Dave got? No! Because he didn't get one! Has this stopped him behaving as if he won by a landslide? Or bothering to take into account anyones opinions other than his own......?

Its a bit bloody rich, a Tory who never won a majority, propped up (or held to ransom?) by a minority party, in a Tory party that hasn't had a majority for over 20 years, lecturing the SNP on democratic legitimacy 🙄

I am at a loss to see why THM has made any mention about what Miilband has to offer the SNP.Nicola Sturgeon has not been asking for a coalition or pursuing any ministerial roles. The nearest she has got is suggesting she will support Labour when it is in her parties interest to do so. Actually,just kidding;I'm not at a loss as to why THM would suggest that...

If Ed loses a vote of confidence, the blame falls on the SNP who will be letting the Tories in instead - no really - and the duped will wake up for the second round. Not a bad scenario all in all.

Wishful thinking;it will be Labour who take the blame.

THM's theory basically revolves around Labour not caring if they're in power or not. If their main ambition is to lose and try to blame someone else for it then it does make perfect sense though.

jambalaya - Member
...That poll stat showing the SNP is very unpopular is consistent with the "pub talk" down here...

That is strange. I wonder what they're scared off?

That is strange. I wonder what they're scared off?

Big hairy Scotsmen,no longer able to get roles in the bill as token drunks,roaming the streets?

A tidle wave of Irn Bru submerging East Anglia?

No NW, based on basic premise of bridge, poker or politics. The idea that SNP hold all the cards (yes, the Tory line or risk) is basically flawed. They look likely to do well democratically, true. Does that put them in a position of undue power - NO - either from a legitimacy or a power politics perspective

binners - Member

A tidle wave of Irn Bru submerging East Anglia?

A spike in the % of ginger children taking up nursery places in 3 years?

Trebuchets launching giant Tunnocks teacakes over the Thames barrier?

Not a position of [i]undue[/i] power, no. But only the tories and their press have ever said that.

But up the page you were very clear, and that was not what you were saying. You said that the SNP can only bluff, that Ed holds all the cards, and that if Labour choose to throw themselves out of government by the scruff of the neck and let the Tories in it'll be the SNP's fault and a good result for Labour.

I'd [i]love[/i] to play you at poker though. Lose all your money to me after folding despite holding a straight flush, then blame the player beside you.

[img] [/img]

😀

Indeed.

Ed has more power and is playing a smarter game v-a-v the SNP than the other way round. He can call her bluff.

Off course since the ultimate objective is power, I doubt that it will be called. More likely offer Salmond Defence Secretary!!! 😉 he can close down all the local jobs!!

duckman - Member
"That is strange. I wonder what they're scared off?"
Big hairy Scotsmen,no longer able to get roles in the bill as token drunks,roaming the streets?

It's our wee lassies they should be scared off. We are. 🙂

binners - Member
Trebuchets launching giant Tunnocks teacakes over the Thames barrier?

It would have to be Lidl Teacakes. We've been boycotting Tunnocks since their intervention in the referendum.

Party list Davidson in talking pish shocker,or getting her excuses in early.

epicyclo - Member

It's our wee lassies they should be scared off. We are.

Like Frankie Boyle said, Nicola Sturgeon has been described as the most dangerous woman in Scotland, by people who've clearly never met any other scottish women

He can call her bluff.

To do what? The SNP have always been clear, they'll support Labour on things they approve of. Under FTPA they can't bring down a Labour government unless they vote with the Tories, and the SNP know that'd be electoral suicide.

This whole problem is caused by the two big parties refusing to accept the possibility of compromise. The other parties manage it, parties in other countries manage it, but Labour and the Tories just can't countenance the idea that they might need to work with other people. Much easier to throw the toys out of the pram and blame someone else.

teamhurtmore - Member
...Ed has more power and is playing a smarter game v-a-v the SNP than the other way round. He can call her bluff...

But is he? Some SNP supporters are hoping that he will refuse to deal with the SNP.

Disenfranchisement is the perfect excuse for a Unilateral Declaration of Independence.

(Remember it's not the leadership that drives the SNP, it's the members, and if enough of them get pissed off, there is a prospect).

[img] ?oh=fe79f7a67d525d7377925bcfdc2f8577&oe=55C82D72[/img]

DANGEROUS SCOTCHES!

I'm drinking a glass of Irn Bru on the shitter right now!

[img] [/img]

Got a train booked to pay a visit to London at the end of the month.
Was planning on going to see some bands, but instead I might invoke my democratic right to Prima Nocti with some young lass fae Kensington.

Fear me

binners - Member
Trebuchets launching giant Tunnocks teacakes over the Thames barrier?

That's a compelling reason to move to that London. The only one mind. 😉

You consume food [i]in the cludgie[/i]?!

This whole problem is caused by the two big parties refusing to accept the possibility of compromise.

There's a huge difference between refusing to work with others, and openly planning on working with others before the result is even known. For obvious reasons the labour party couldn't talk about deals with the SNP as they have candidates standing against them. They've played it as best they could as far as I can see. When the result is known, the game will change, and probably the rules with it. The tories are going to be counting on this in order to ignore democratic precedent and the rules they signed up to, labour will be counting on it to go back on their no deals with the SNP stance.

DANGEROUS SCOTCHES!

Has someone photoshopped a pic of Sturgeon with her face painted blue waving a sword yet? If not, why not?

bencooper - Member

You consume food in the cludgie?!

Posted 5 minutes ago #Report-Post

He had read the paper,whits wrang wie your pus?

molgrips - Member

DANGEROUS SCOTCHES!

Has someone photoshopped a pic of Sturgeon with her face painted blue waving a sword yet? If not, why not?

Posted 5 minutes ago #Report-Post

If it had,it would have been posted here as an example of how the SNP were coming down here to drink the blood of good Queen Liz (Eh,Jam?)

I found on the floor of the public toilets near my office, a spread open copy of the Sun in perfect enthroned reading position, and half a sausage roll. I like to think, that halfway through his Greggs-shit, he stopped, took a look at himself, said "I'M A TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING!" and threw it down, before running out the door and becoming a buddhist monk.