[Closed] Election Campaign

If the differential is less than the number of SNP MPs it doesn't matter

Only if the SNP actually vote for a Labour government. If they abstain, and the Tories can muster more votes than Labour (with the LibDem and DUP say), then it's possible no-one would be able to form a government i.e. Labour and SNP can vote down the Tory option, but the Tories and their buddies could vote down the Labour option if the SNP abstain.

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[quote=epicsteve ]the Tories and their buddies could vote down the Labour option [b]if the SNP abstain.[/b]And the likelihood of this given that Nicola Sturgeon is calling on Ed Milliband to "lock" David Cameron out of number 10?

And the likelihood of this given that Nicola Sturgeon is calling on Ed Milliband to "lock" David Cameron out of number 10?

Not sure - but Milliband has pretty much said he doesn't want their support. If I was Sturgeon in that scenario I'd let the Labour party know I'd allow them to form a government, but only if they changed leader. They'd also be the SNP's bitches for the rest of the parliament anyway, because if the Tories have more seats then Labour wouldn't be able to do anything without actual support from the SNP or others.

You can do a huge amount in government without passing bills, as long as you can raise money (get a finance bill through) and survive a confidence motion you can govern.

EDIT: SNP can only put forward bills if they win the private members bill ballot, and these can be talked out, only governments put forward bills otherwise.

nemesis - Member

Well, 10 million followers is not the same as 10 million people listening to what he says and I'm sure a very small proportion of those 10 million actually watch his Trews

The joy of it for Miliband is that nobody has to watch it- they just have to think "Russell Brand's alright" "Miliband went on the Trews, he must be alright" and "David Cameron was a dick about it". Uncharacteristically good (and somewhat brave imo) move from him tbh.

Just finished watching the Scottish news, Ruth Davidson's having a brilliant war isn't she? Driving around in a tank, skidding around on a quad bike, blowing on some guy's chanter... Being Ruth Davidson looks way better than being David Cameron.

You lot still discussing who to vote? FFS! 😯

Debate Me!(x2) is going to be next PM like it or not so why are you lot still trying to justify your chosen one eh?

Scotland will be an independent nation under PM Debate Me!(x2) and history will be created when the dream of the union break-up has finally been fulfilled.

Hell yes!

Long live Robert the Bruce!

😆

Sam cam was sent out to pound out the streets of Brentford and iselworth today, in an attempt to save the Tory incumbent , shame I moved away 2 weeks ago I could've told her what I think of Dave*

* not really I'd probably have been all pitr and nice

But we did have an absolutely die hard labour supporter down our street, obsessed with getting the Tories out his house covered in labour banners , I'd loved to have seen his reaction, I imagine that security detail would've been involved

kimbers - Member
But we did have an absolutely die hard labour supporter down our street, obsessed with getting the Tories out his house covered in labour banners , I'd loved to have seen his reaction, I imagine that security detail would've been involved

My colleagues are socialist hammer, communist, Green, Labour die hard and they have intense hatred for anything Tories or Tories related ... 😯

They are really angry people aren't they ... 😛

Terry wasn't angry just sad that the evil Tories were out to shaft the poor

I am going to let them know who I will vote just to see them fume for entertainment ... 😆

They are dead serious people btw.

I vote for the Party whose ideals I most identify with. If it's highly likely there will be a hung parliament, I think voting on specific policies / manifesto commitments is a bit pointless as they only really apply in the event of an outright majority. With coalitions, everything is up for horse trading.

Well that's my vote cast - it'll be interesting to see what government we end up with.

it'll be interesting to see what government we end up with.

The result of the general election is boringly predictable imo.

Either Cameron or Miliband will become Prime Minister.

And while they continuously try to manufacture differences between themselves they have also simultaneously been going out of their way to reassure voters that no one need worry as they are just like their opponent.

The result of the general election is boringly predictable imo.

Not in Scotland, where I'm voting.

The result of the general election is boringly predictable imo.

You think? By far the most interesting and unpredictable election I can recall. The make up of the coalition will be interesting.

Not in Scotland, where I'm voting.

Sorry you said [i]"what government we end up with"[/i]. Which suggests that you weren't referring to Scotland. Scotland will have the same government after the general election as before the general election.

Sorry you said "what government we end up with". Which suggests that you weren't referring to Scotland. Scotland will have the same government after the general election as before the general election.

Probably not. The SNP will still run devolved matters but they might have some influence in the UK as a whole. I don't think this time there will be an outright majority for anyone and it's looking unlikely the LibDems will be in a position to sell out by themselves this time.

I don't think this time there will be an outright majority for anyone and it's looking unlikely the LibDems will be in a position to sell out by themselves this time.

And that doesn't change one iota the fact that either Cameron or Miliband will be Prime Minister. Exactly the same situation if there was an outright majority or the LibDems were in a position to sell out.

The Sun comes out for the Tories - no surprise there - for reasons including to stop the SNP running the country. The Scottish Sun comes out for the SNP!

We're doomed! Ruthie is on the warpath... 🙂

[img] ?oh=2df447555f2d422a1013ea230d01e495&oe=55D3EC90[/img]

[img] ?oh=d1718bad1a8d518a9983fa874b019c24&oe=55E46994[/img]

Nope,she doesn't look familiar...Should I know who she is? I teach Modern Studies but even I cannot be expected to recognise every wannabie politician 😆

Leader of the Tory Party in Scotland for those who do not recognise our right wing heroes. 🙂

What a surprise Murdoch once again tries to screw Labour over.

Loving the Davidson meme's.

Ruth Davidson has always come across well. I don't agree with her views personally, but I respect her as a politician.

Yes, she's a rare thing, a likeable Tory. And especially with all the abuse she gets, you have to admire her gumption.

Yes, she's a rare thing, a likeable Tory. And especially with all the abuse she gets, you have to admire her gumption.

Apparently she's one of the better liked party leaders in Scotland, despite her party not being popular.

She is about as likeable as they get,but look at her competition.

Speaking of likeable politicians you'd never vote for, have we done [url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/strava-clocks-scottish-politician-speeding-after-he-forgets-to-switch-off-app-168654 ]Willie Rennie getting clocked by Strava[/url]?

I have to say that I'm absolutely disgusted by the anti-SNP rhetoric currently being spewed out by Dave, and his friends in the right wing press. It confirms what a truly nasty arrogant bunch they are. What they're suggesting is that the SNP is not a legitimate party of government.

Well, I'm sorry Dave, but this is a democracy, and if the constituents of wards North of the Border want to return SNP MP's to Westminster, then those MP's have just as much democratic legitimacy as the MP for Chipping Norton, or Henley on Thames! Whether you like it or not!

And its just this kind of monumental arrogance, and condescension, that disgusts not just voters in Scotland, but pretty much anywhere outside London and the South East, from Cornwall to Newcastle!

And the labour parties attitude isn't much better either. Its equal guilty of refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the SNP.

Well its a dangerous game they're both playing. Because this distasteful attitude just makes the 2 Westminster parties look even more aloof, disengaged and unrepresentative than ever. It just confirms every suspicion, in 'the regions' that our views don't count, and how dare we upstarts even suggest they should be taken into consideration.

The Scottish people have been offered something different from the rest of the UK. The lucky bastards! They have been offered a legitimate, credible alternative to the tired 2 party system, that is increasingly distrusted outside London and the South East. And look what they've opted for. The whole political landscape has changed. Should that not tell them all they need to know about how Westminster is viewed?

Forget the whole independence thing for the moment, and concentrate on the other SNP policies.

The Tory party is already an irrelevance in the northern cities. Rightfully loathed for what they uncaringly did to our industries and communities. Nobody votes for them! And thats never going to change! And the labour party is just the default vote, as a result of that anti-tory hatred. And my god, they've taken that for granted. For 30 years!!! And the result is the pathetic, totally unrepresentative, hollowed out sight of the present Tory-light party

Well they need to be bloody careful. Because if large parts of the country were being offered the same choice the Scots presently have in front of them - A credible, more left-leaning, truly socially democratic alternative to the 2 party cabal, then the labour party could also be finding itself as dead in the water as they are in central Glasgow, in their other previous 'heartlands' too!

Was that on the way to his press conference to proclaim that there would be no coalition deals as far as the Lib Dems were concerned. Anybody fancy taking a pic of the front cover of the sun in England today and posting it up? The contrast with the Scottish edition will be funny.

Shirley any right minded person would see that the Murdoch is backing the Tories and realise they are a bad choice!

@binners I don't think anyone is saying the SNP are not legitimate, you have been listening too hard to the SNP. The Tories are simply saying a government with the SNP will be chose and quite rightly pointing out how Milliband will be a puppet to Salmond and Sturgeon

The North was in decline when the business owners decided to out source their manufacturing to Asia. Didn't do themselves any favours with their side of the industrial relations disputes either. Blaming it on the Tories/Thatcher is just convenient. Blair recognised to get elected the Labour party had to move to the centre. The more Labour goes left the less likely they will be to win an election. The SNP are NOT a left leaning party IMO, lets look at what they have done/will do in Holyrood. Trident has nothing to do with nuclear disarmament, its all about "your" nukes being in "our" country. It's easy to shout from the roof tops but once in government you have to balance the books.

Blaming it on the Tories/Thatcher is just convenient

Jammy You really, really, really don't get it at all, do you? You think we loath them because we just failed to understand things? Global economics too complicated for us whippet-breeding, flat cap wearing pigeon fanciers? Us poor stupid northerners eh?

Well that isn't what happened. We appreciate that some of that was the result of globalised forces beyond our control. But It was the vicious malice with which that agenda was pursued. They virtually declared war on us!!! I personally watched, on my journey to school, daily, the Police, bussed in from the South East, on premium overtime, deployed as a brutal militia against the miners! Its about this....

[img] [/img]

And Michael Hesaltine was a lone voice in the Tory party suggesting that decimating the industries of the northern cities, and making not even the slightest token effort to cushion the crushing economic blow, might not be the most humane thing for a government to do. They sat back and did absolutely nothing while whole communities were torn apart by mass unemployment and poverty!

Everyone who lived through that absolutely despises the Tory's!!! Why do you think that the northern cities return not a single Tory MP. Not one!!! I've lived in constituencies were the Tory's poll around 4%

Is that because we're just too thick to understand global economics? Or because we bitterly resent what was done to us by a party who just did''t care! And in a lot of cases looked like they were actively enjoying the whole thing?

Trident has nothing to do with nuclear disarmament,

Getting rid of them was a central policy of the SNP since the year dot. It was also one of the promises Labour made and u turned on. The SNP don't want them removed from Scotland,they want them removed all together and the money spent on people. SNP are not a left leaning party... 😆 did you not suggest on the indy thread that they were pretending to be in order to stay in power?

@binners I don't think anyone is saying the SNP are not legitimate

Have you not been paying attention? Thats exactly what they're saying. They're preparing the ground to say that a minority labour government, supported on whatever basis by the SNP, is not democratically legitimate. And if that comes to pass, which it looks like it well might, then the Tory press will be screaming blue murder that this is the case

To be fair, that's not the same thing as you're claiming regardless that it's clearly scaremongering.

EDIT - actually on reflection it's semantics really I suppose. Either way, as I've said before, the nasty party are playing nasty politics but probably tactically it's the right thing for them...

jambalaya - Member

@binners I don't think anyone is saying the SNP are not legitimate

Except for David Cameron, who says that "these people" aren't allowed in the government of "his country". And Theresa May who says "It would raise difficult questions about legitimacy." And Nick Clegg. And the Telegraph. And the Mail.

Milliband will be a puppet to Salmond and Sturgeon

The SNP are NOT a left leaning party IMO

Well they need to be bloody careful. Because if large parts of the country were being offered the same choice the Scots presently have in front of them - A credible, more left-leaning, truly socially democratic alternative to the 2 party cabal, then the labour party could also be finding itself as dead in the water as they are in central Glasgow, in their other previous 'heartlands' too!

There was a poll recently which I can't find right now, which showed that if the SNP were running candidates in the rest of the UK too then they'd win the North and London, and be in with a fighting chance of Nicola Sturgeon being the next PM.

The problem isn't that the SNP are so strong, it's that Labour are so pathetically feart.

It makes perfect sense to have EVEL given the devolved power the Scots asked for and got. I have been paying attention and at no time have I heard anyone say the SNP are not legitimate or do not have a right to sit at Westminster.

Now help me out on the history of decimating the Northern industries. Coal is very much yesterdays fuel with ecological campaigners worldwide calling for it to be phased out. Scargill tried to hold the country to ransom by switching off the lights. I'm old enough to remember the power cuts caused by miners strikes, not surprisingly subsequent governments made sure that would never happen again by diversifying into oil. Scargill picked a fight using the lives of his members as a weapon and lost, lost heavily.

I could post up a picture of the taxi with the concrete block through the windscreen.

I see how you got some good north/south divide stuff in the bussed in police on overtime there, well done.

The steel industry just moved to lower cost producers along with the ship building, as you say economic forces.

Binners we all know the Northern cities are strong Labour areas as is Central London (due to high levels of social housing and private houses being owned by foreigners not entitled to vote and commuters living outside the central areas) but support for the Conservatives is pretty much national, there are plenty in the North voting Tory. From 2010

[img] [/img]

support for the Conservatives is pretty much national

To be fair to our blue friend, given that binners was talking about England's North, I think it's fair to assume he meant national to mean England.

Now help me out on the history of decimating the Northern industries. Coal is very much yesterdays fuel with ecological campaigners worldwide calling for it to be phased out. Scargill tried to hold the country to ransom by switching off the lights.

[img] [/img]

At the risk of sounding repetitive, it isn't what happened as a result of global economic forces. I get that. Its the brutal manner in which it was done. A callous an uncaring government, who, in the context of what we're discussing at the moment, are meant to representative of the WHOLE country, just sat back and watched the entire economies of some northern regions absolutely decimated, while they sat back and did absolutely nothing. In fact, it looked like many of the Tory front bench were really really enjoying their 'vengeance' on the uppity unionised working classes, who'd brought down the last Tory government.

That, once again, is why they're so hated up here. It'll never be forgotten. And certainly never forgiven.

To quote the lady, the resulting mass unemployment, and grinding poverty was 'a price worth paying'. Well that wasn't an opinion broadly shared by those of us paying that price, believe me!

I see how you got some good north/south divide stuff in the bussed in police on overtime there, well done.

I'm merely stating facts

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/feb/27/guardian-poll-projection ]Polls not looking too good for Miliband.[/url]

This is the worst prediction for labour the guardian's election model has given so far. Perhaps most worrying for us left-leaning folk is that according to this labour and the SNP will not hold a majority. Also the Mori poll has swung towards the tories.

Is it just me or has the labour campaign lost a bit of momentum? Seems like when I turn the news on all I see is Cameron in shirts-sleeves-rolled-up-ranting-like-he-gives-a-shit mode and a meek Miliband trying to look presidential behind his lecturn. It'd be a sad but entirely predictable turn of events if labour lose it due to a lack of passion/fight.

Not sure why you are saying that as if it is doom the doom is spread around equally as there is no way that The tories can form a majority

An anti-Tory bloc (Lab, SNP, SDLP, PC, Green) would vote down a Conservative government and Even with support from the DUP and Ukip, the current Con/LD coalition could not form a government

Will be interesting to see what happens afterwards especially if Clegg is a goner.

Interesting graphics. The telling thing for me really is that Labour have really screwed up in Scotland and that's why we'll have a hung parliament.

Not sure why you are saying that as there is no way that The tories can form a majority

True but it's a lot closer than it was a week ago which had labour+SNP well over the 326 threshold without having to worry about support from the other parties.

And the labour parties attitude isn't much better either. Its equal guilty of refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the SNP.

Don't think Labour are saying SNP MPs are illegitimate, Labour just don't want to work with them for many political reasons and policy differences such as bitterness over 1979, Scottish independence and Trident.

There was an interesting poll a few days ago stating that the Tories had significantly lead with people over 40. Considering they tend to vote but aren't prolific on social media, are we seeing an under reporting of the Tory support and an over reporting of the rest. Hard to tell until Friday next week I guess.

One thing I honestly don't get: Why are Labour so in love with Trident? the Tories I can understand, but Labour?

I reckon there'll be a (hopefully only small) improvement in Tory voting come the day as people decide to either stick with what they know or don't vote how they claim to the polls (because many won't admit that they're going to vote Tory).

Ben - Trident would provide an awful lot of jobs in solid labour voting constituencies

As for the polls.The Tory's always do better than the polls suggest. As people who possess any self-awareness, won't admit to voting Tory, as they know how decent human beings generally tend to interpret that. 😉

Why are Labour so in love with Trident?

I think it's probably more accurate to say that they're more in love with being in power than they are with Trident. I suspect they'd love to get rid of it if they thought it wouldn't lose them the election. 1983 and the unilateral disarmament policy casts a long shadow.

Why are Labour so in love with Trident?

There are very clearly two ways of looking at Trident. Both are good points. It's nothing like as black and white as SNP make out.

Treating things as black and white is terribly detrimental to the political debate.

[i]I think you forgot to look at Scotland there where they have more Pandas than Tories.[/i]

Its all well and good talking up the SNP's power in the upcoming election, but correct me if I'm wrong, but they represent a number, roughly half the size of Birmingham? Add that to the fact that they don't want a Great Britain and you've got a situation whereby they have talked themselves out of having any credibility amongst the rest of the 95% of the population.

SNP's policy is on Trident is a mess anyway IMO. They are perfectly happy for the Yanks, French or whoever to park nuclear subs in Faslane but not our own!

Then when pressed NS indirectly admitted they want to double spend the money saved, as she said they would us it for schools and NHS, and then in next breath that the money should go to improving the conventional forces. So which is it?

jambalaya - Member
Binners we all know the Northern cities are strong Labour areas as is Central London (due to high levels of social housing and private houses being owned by foreigners not entitled to vote and commuters living outside the central areas) but support for the Conservatives is pretty much national, there are plenty in the North voting Tory. From 2010

Same data, different projection:

[img] [/img]

Ben - Trident would provide an awful lot of jobs in solid labour voting constituencies

If that's the argument, then it's a rubbish argument. You could give every worker £100,000 a year to stay home and do the gardening, and still only spend a fraction of what Trident will cost.

Then when pressed NS indirectly admitted they want to double spend the money saved, as she said they would us it for schools and NHS, and then in next breath that the money should go to improving the conventional forces. So which is it?

they have talked themselves out of having any credibility amongst the rest of the 95% of the population

Don't be silly. I'm certain that the animosity shown towards the SNP from the tories/south is not shared by the vast majority of labour supporting northerners who wish the labour party was a bit/lot more to the left than it currently is. If the SNP fielded candidates in the north of England they'd probably win most of the seats from labour.

bencooper - Member
One thing I honestly don't get: Why are Labour so in love with Trident? the Tories I can understand, but Labour?

A complex answer. In the end a lot of people now think that the MAD policy actually worked, also you don't want to be subject to nuclear blackmail. Having Trident we can use it as a bargaining chip to move towards multilateral disarmanment, much better to have skin in the game. It is also hard to predict future threats in the mid 00s were we really expecting the Arab spring to occur. Military capabilities have a very long lead time. If we scrapped the subs and infrastructure next year then the following year a threat arose and we decided we needed the capability again it would take about 20 years to build it.

The economic argument isn't as strong as people might think because we could still keep the submarines and covert them to SSGNs something that would serve us very well. However there would still be job losses in Faslane as we wouldn't need weapons handling and storage facilities there.

dazh - Member
Polls not looking too good for Miliband.

This is the worst prediction for labour the guardian's election model has given so far. Perhaps most worrying for us left-leaning folk is that according to this labour and the SNP will not hold a majority. Also the Mori poll has swung towards the tories.

Is it just me or has the labour campaign lost a bit of momentum? Seems like when I turn the news on all I see is Cameron in shirts-sleeves-rolled-up-ranting-like-he-gives-a-shit mode and a meek Miliband trying to look presidential behind his lecturn. It'd be a sad but entirely predictable turn of events if Labour lose it due to a lack of passion/fight.

On polling, firstly you can't look at any single poll you have to look at the trends in the polls

Isn't that what the guardian's election model does? It claims to use all published local and national polls. I understand your eagerness to look for positives, but you have to admit there's a definite trend towards the tories.

As for Cameron's desperation, I'm not sure the public view it like that. All they see is passion and enthusiasm, something that Miliband struggles to put across. At the end of the day people like a fighter.

You could give every worker £100,000 a year to stay home and do the gardening, and still only spend a fraction of what Trident will cost.

How much of this Trident money stays in the UK?

Ben on Trident - I agree with the jobs, ongoing plus a lot of that money is spent on construction and technology jobs. I would add that I think behind the scenes (eg with NATO) there are lots of commitments and possibly binding agreements signed that we will retain an "independent" deterrent.

CaptJohn appreciate that's a projection and also a seat based rather than land area based map

Binners I did get the point about economics and how the north was treated - I guess if you have a huge and at times violent strike plus rock solid labour consituencies you shouldn;t be totally surprised if the conservatives apprently don't give a f

Labour just don't want to work with them for many political reasons and policy differences such as bitterness over 1979, Scottish independence and Trident.

I'm not convinced the anti-SNP stance taken by Labour so far is based on anything other than them wanting to keep their chances open to win more seats in Scotland based on the old "it's us or the Tories" argument.

When push comes to shove then if Labour need to do a deal with the SNP to form a parliament then I'm sure they will. They can get around their previous arguments by trading off delaying a decision on Trident replacement against an agreement that the SNP won't push for another referendum with 5 years.

One thing I honestly don't get: Why are Labour so in love with Trident? the Tories I can understand, but Labour?

The SNP are have occupied the position left vacant when Labour turned into Tories. The two main political parties are like Walker's Crisps - the colours dont mean what they used to.

Jim Sillars being quoted as saying the first line of the 2016 SNP manifesto for Holyrood will be another independence referendum (which is basically what I posted a few pages back 😉 )

Also the Lib Dems (Danny Alexander) clearly think they are most likely to be in a coalition with Labour based on leaking a 2010-15 coalition working paper. Very naughty. Anyway IMO child benefit should be capped at two kids and be means tested. I always thought it a bit ridiculous my family received it being a higher rate tax payer and for 3 kids. My ex-wife was so bad with money/organization/forms she didn't receive it for 3 years and didn't notice (quite rightly they refused to back date it)

I guess if you have a huge and at times violent strike plus rock solid labour consituencies you shouldn;t be totally surprised if the conservatives apprently don't give a f

Couple of points:

1. The violence shown by miners in the 1984 was nothing compared to the paramilitary force meted out to them by the state.

2. It's the government's primary duty and responsibility to 'give a f'.

The two main political parties are like Walker's Crisps - the colours dont mean what the used to.

It's the government's primary duty and responsibility to 'give a f'.

dazh - Member

Isn't that what the guardian's election model does? It claims to use all published local and national polls. I understand your eagerness to look for positives, but you have to admit there's a definite trend towards the tories.

Still got 3 other points

As for Cameron's desperation, I'm not sure the public view it like that. All they see is passion and enthusiasm, something that Miliband struggles to put across. At the end of the day people like a fighter.

Well I have skin in the game so maybe I'm not quite objective enough also I'm far more engaged in the detail so I might perceive things differently.

How I see it is that here is a guy who has changed his campaign strategy almost every week. First it was lets talk about our economic record, then it was lets attack Eds leadership credentials, then it was lets attack Labour over a deal with the SNP, then this week we hear all of this talk about the economy again and DC has suddenly changed from the calm statesman behind the podium to sleeves rolled up, shouty guy it feels all a bit faux to me.

Labour are seeing Eds personal opinion rating increase, they are running a coherent issues based campaign and thrashing the opposition in the ground war which might be crucial in those key Tory/Lab marginals.

epicsteve - Member
I'm not convinced the anti-SNP stance taken by Labour so far is based on anything other than them wanting to keep their chances open to win more seats in Scotland based on the old "it's us or the Tories" argument.

When push comes to shove then if Labour need to do a deal with the SNP to form a parliament then I'm sure they will. They can get around their previous arguments by trading off delaying a decision on Trident replacement against an agreement that the SNP won't push for another referendum with 5 years.

I explained yesterday why this isn't the case.

All those saying SNP will have some influence over Labour are not looking at the big picture. Labour can just put their queens speech down and dare the SNP to vote it down. The worst that would happen is the SNP bring down another Labour Government just like they did in 79 but instead of ushering in Thatcher, it will allow Labour to regain its Scottish seats and go for a majority government.

I was just making a point, London and SE transfer £34bn on taxes to the rest of the country every year, that pays for a lot of stuff.

So us chippy northerners should all be really grateful, should we?

Heres an idea... instead of viewing this as some sort of charity, How about trying to create a balanced, functional economy that works for the entire country, instead of just one gilded, indulged area of concentrated wealth instead?

Just a thought. This whole situation is due to the Tory's under Fatcha allowing entire regional industries to disappear without giving a flying **** as to what was going to replace those jobs. The market will sort it out, being the mantra. Well... it didn't! And it hasn't! And thats why we now have such a dysfunctional, two tier national economy

Somewhat incredibly, the only politician that the penny seems to have dropped with on this issue, is George Osborne.

I may end up voting Tory 😉

All those saying SNP will have some influence over Labour are not looking at the big picture. Labour can just put their queens speech down and dare the SNP to vote it down. The worst that would happen is the SNP bring down another Labour Government just like they did in 79 but instead of ushering in Thatcher, it will allow Labour to regain its Scottish seats and go for a majority government.

You seem to be forgetting that when it comes to political nouse the SNP are miles ahead of anything Westminster currently has to offer.

wanmankylung - Member

You seem to be forgetting that when it comes to political nouse the SNP are miles ahead of anything Westminster currently has to offer.

Sorry that is just laughable....

Sorry that is just laughable....

Prove it.

dragon - Member

SNP's policy is on Trident is a mess anyway IMO. They are perfectly happy for the Yanks, French or whoever to park nuclear subs in Faslane but not our own!

Perfectly sensible tbh. Let other people waste fortunes on weapons of mass destruction that by design must never be used. It's not about whether there's a nuclear sub in Scottish territory, it's about who is responsible for it and who paid for it. We don't want it on our conscience or on our balance sheet.

bencooper - Member

One thing I honestly don't get: Why are Labour so in love with Trident? the Tories I can understand, but Labour?

Apparently 75% of Labour MP candidates are opposed to Trident renewal. As are most of the public. But it can be spun into boneheaded slogans about DEFENCE and PUTTING OUR COUNTRY AT RISK so it's always going to be a hot potato. Even people who're opposed to nuclear armageddon could be swayed by a concerted campaign telling them about how Ed is going to get us invaded by Greece. You can see this already happening.