[Closed] EDL in Birmingham Today

I do not want my home country invaded by tens of millions of immigrants.

I'm pretty sure we'd spot an invasion - they tend to be a bit noticeable; [i]c/f[/i]:

[img] [/img]

lol This thread truly is morons arguing with idiots.

Not holier than thou - just tolerant. I've never lived in a Muslim country and funnily enough the vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country either... So your point would be what Neilfether? Articulate your views - I am happy that you can do so, but don't support riots which are not undertaken as peaceful protests but instead are designed to intimidate and agress others who don't share your views.

The EDL are not interested in a peaceful exchange of views - they are as extreme as the extremists they profess to abhor.

I do not want my home country invaded by tens of millions of immigrants.

But it's not and it won't.

I do not want my home country invaded by tens of millions of immigrants

I think we should be able to speak up with a point of view without being branded as an ignorant Nazi/facist/racist.

What any point of view even if it is "an ignorant Nazi/facist/racist" one.

Have any of you, that are getting a little kick out of posting on here with your liberal, holier than thou, comments ever lived in a Muslim country?

Yes I have lived in one not that I see the relevance.

lol This thread truly is morons arguing with idiots.

Shame you are not so confident in your views you could share lol 🙄

lol This thread truly is morons arguing with idiots.

And erudite comments such as this, several hours after you first shared a similar pearl of wisdom with us, don't seem to be improving it much

knuckle dragging racists

Its been said before, but what have discussions about Muslims (religion) or immigration (nationality) got to do with race?

Dazh: I have some news for you. In the past few years, millions of immigrants have made their homes in this country. Millions of them. OK perhaps not tens of millions, but millions none the less.
Please explain to me why you think that is a moronic comment.
Please explain to me why you think anyone should be pleased about this.
Zokes: Plenty of people have noticed.

3dvgirl - Member
lol This thread truly is morons arguing with idiots.

Reliably judged how and by whom...?

Zokes I will sleep safe in my bed knowing of your vigilance in looking out for millions of invaders, not sure you will be able to se much from South Australia but thanks x

Zokes: Plenty of people have noticed.

An invasion? Are you quite sure?

I'm certain it would have been on the news somewhere. Have you got any pictures of these marauding navies and invasion fleets? I seem to have missed this story.

Eek, a violent radical muslim:

[img] [/img]

on this whole invasion thing, can we count the colonies as evidence of who is doing the invading? Then we have hundreds of millions of invaders to take into account.

I've never lived in a Muslim country and funnily enough the vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country either...

1. How many muslims have you met and asked if they want to live in a muslim country? It must be a hell of lot to get a vast vast majority. unless that's 1 out of 1. 😆

2. It's not a good advert for muslim countries if they don't want to live there.

I find Catholicism hugely offensive, Catholics at least as intolerant as the Muslimists and very very narrow minded. The Christian right in the bible belt of Amerka are dangerously out of control and wield huge power and Evangelical Christianity in large swathes of Africa have caused major issues with human rights, and have helped fuel the prolific spread of HIV and uncontrolled population growth.

Catholics, Muslims and Evangelical Christians are all human beings, just as you are. And just as you might hold varying degrees of belief in 29ers to fellow bikers, so religious people interpret their faith differently. I find your comments about Catholics very offensive, and am happy to confirm that the 3 I share a home with are not intolerant people. Apart from my toddler, she doesn't seem that tolerant of food which isn't cake.

If we are looking at those that preach extreme views and intolerance for others I think we need to include all these groups and not just the Muslimists (and for the record the Koran, depending on interpretation, preaches a pretty tolerant line).

I would agree, unfortunately people like yourself also see fit to preach intolerance. Let go of your hate for ordinary people; save it for better targets or better yet, let go of it entirely. There will always be evil people in the world and they thrive off your hate. Direct it at more dangerous things, like 650b.

2. It's not a good advert for muslim countries if they don't want to live there.

And this has to do with what, precisely?

If no-one ever 'invaded' anyone, would that make for a population of inbred mutants?

In the past few years, millions of immigrants have made their homes in this country. Millions of them.

Its been said before, but what have discussions about Muslims (religion) or immigration (nationality) got to do with race?

the afact some want to bemoan the passing of albions halycon days is tragic as it never really existed

And this has to do with what, precisely?

I presume jamj1974 can answer that he bought it up as a relevant issue.

In the past few years, millions of immigrants have made their homes in this country

maybe, but is that the problem..?

Is it not more likely the case that in the past few years, hundreds of emotionally insecure males with racist tendencies have got online and discovered that they are not alone..?
That they suddenly have literally hundreds of new friends and between them they might be able to create some sort of purpose in their life..?

So are the rest of us (the 60 odd million) meant to suddenly bow down to the paranoid rantings of this tiny group of a few hundred overgrown wee boys, and engage in some sort of race war, just to give the poor loves a sense of worth..?

I presume jamj1974 can answer that he bought it up as a relevant issue.

I doubt it: it's you that seemed to be trying falsely connect conditions in countries that aren't the UK with immigration to the UK.

the vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country either

Really? How so?

Its been said before, but what have discussions about Muslims (religion) or immigration (nationality) got to do with race?

Because whilst they're different things, they're heavily intertwined. Some people will be speaking out against Muslims because, fundamentally, they just don't like brown people. To argue that this isn't racism because Islam isn't a race may well be technically correct but it's not exactly true.

Junkyard: It does not matter how many I think are here. The government should be able to tell us exactly. They cannot and nor can you. Your guess would be no more valid than mine

My point of view is not ignorant, I have lived and worked in many countries. I am not a Nazi, a Facist or a Racist.

My point about living in a Muslim country is this: Life in most Muslim countries is pretty unpleasant. Women are oppressed. Education is controlled. The religion intrudes into every aspect of peoples lives.

We have a democratic system here in Britain. I hope that when non Muslims are the minority, Muslims are as tolerant of us, as we were of them.

I find your comments about Catholics very offensive, and am happy to confirm that the 3 I share a home with are not intolerant people.

What are their views on same-sex marriage, out of interest? That's a good test of 'tolerance' at the moment.

I hope that when non Muslims are the minority, Muslims are as tolerant of us, as we were of them.

Bless him. He's just feeble of mind and afraid, not a nazi.

trying falsely connect conditions in countries that aren't the UK with immigration to the UK.

By conditions you must mean religious conditions and restraints rather than economic I presume?

Why do you think jamj1974 stated that "[i]vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country[/i]"?

I've not even mentioned about immigration to the UK, purly about muslims apparently not wanting to live in a muslim country. There's no point in trying to twist things around that are written so clearly.

1. How many muslims have you met and asked if they want to live in a muslim country? It must be a hell of lot to get a vast vast majority. unless that's 1 out of 1.

Personally I find it very funny that the racists have to go to such lengths to pretend they are not racist - hell even the BNP do this-

Or perhaps they don't like being called something they're not, in an attempt to close down any discussion on something which the liberal elite want, but the people don't

Immigration into the UK in the 20th Century has, by and large, been a concerted effort by capitalist business owners to undermine the position of the working man and force down wages - if you bother to look into the history of the trades union movement you will see widespread opposition to immigration.

it shows the battle is lost tbh and multiculturalism is here as even they cannot say it openly.

What has multiculturalism got to do with race? You keep using non sequitur proxies for racism to prove your point despite the fact that an opposition to enforced multiculturalism has nothing to do with ethnicity or race - but you're unable to see the fallacy in your own argument - Britain has always been a multi-ethnic society, even before the Romans arrived, your inability to separate race from religion or culture just belies the laziness of your own analytical skills, and your unwillingness to challenge your own thoughts - maybe you need to check your own privilege before calling people stupid for disagreeing with something that they see happening on a daily basis?

Please explain to me why you think that is a moronic comment.

Because it's patently untrue. This country is not being invaded by 10s of millions of immigrants. This fact is so obvious it hardly merits discussion. But still you say it. Moronic? Absolutely.

Please explain to me why you think anyone should be pleased about this.

People come here to live and work because presumably it's a good place to do both. That's something we should celebrate I think. Would you prefer the opposite? The cultures, skills, knowledge, experience and other things they bring with them, and the diversity it fosters have vast benefits both culturally and economically for this country. But still, if you'd rather live in an insular, inward looking, homogenous, and conformist environment where everyone lives, acts, talks, and looks the same, then you're perfectly free to leave and find somewhere which will meet those needs. Being born in a particular place doesn't automatically give you the right to dictate who else lives there and how they lead their lives.

Dobbo - you did indeed write it quite clearly:

2. It's not a good advert for muslim countries if they don't want to live there.

And I asked what, precisely, did that statement have to do with this thread, which is mostly about bigoted racists protesting about immigration to the UK, not the living conditions in countries that are not the UK

So then jamj1974, why don't the vast, vast majority of muslims you have met want to live in a mulsim country?

Do they have more freedom in a non mulsim country and prefer that?
I'd have thought that if there belief was that strong they'd prefer to be more encapsulated in it and its rules?

oh for gods sake.. this is like trying to reason with a bowl of jelly.. 😆

Yet again Zokes, jamj1974 stated that mulsims he knows don't want to live in a muslim country, I replied to that as did Cougar. It's not hard to follow. You do read posts from the top of the page down don't you?

Shame you are not so confident in your views you could share lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Dazh: It is not untrue. The immigration over the last few years runs into many millions. I live in London. London had a population of about 8 million. It is now unusual to hear a British accent in my home town.

I am saying uncontrolled immigration is not a good idea. There are only so many jobs, so many places in schools, and a limited amount of money available for the NHS.

Do you really think that Britain was insular, homogenous and conformist?

I have lived abroad. Have you?

.

At last the pennies dropped.

I have lived abroad. Have you?

You were an immigrant?

Or perhaps they don't like being called something they're not, in an attempt to close down any discussion on something which the liberal elite want, but the people don't

You keep using non sequitur proxies for racism

Because whilst they're different things, they're heavily intertwined. Some people will be speaking out against Muslims because, fundamentally, they just don't like brown people. To argue that this isn't racism because Islam isn't a race may well be technically correct but it's not exactly true.

You seem to think race , multiculturalism and Muslim are not an intersecting set and claim it is fallacious to suggest otherwise.

I disagree and the reasons should be pretty obvious but perhaps you could use the example of the Jews to help me with my "fallacy" and my

inability to separate race from religion or culture

I would guess that any Muslims you meet here would rather not live in a Muslim country.

Here is an amusing little anecdote, perhaps it might be a clue as to why someone would rather not live in ****stan

When I was living in Asia, a few stories made the local press. A young girl living in a village in rural ****stan was told to stop seeing a boy from a nearby village. She was rumbled on her next illicit date. The Muslim elders from her home decided that a suitable punishment would be rape. She was publicly raped by the men from her own village.
She got off lightly though. Another teenage girl under similar circumstances had her lips and ears hacked off with a knife.

And just with dobbo, what, precisely, does this have to do with immigration to the UK, neilferther?

If you were concerned about immigration to ****stan, then I'd understand.

The immigration over the last few years runs into many millions. I live in London. London had a population of about 8 million. It is now unusual to hear a British accent in my home town.

My daughter is not an immigrant, she was born approximately a foot from where I sit. She doesn't have a British accent; indeed she predominantly does not speak English. Granted she is only 2. Am I to hope that when she grows up she will lose touch with part of her roots? Or is she allowed to speak with a slightly different accent and use words you won't understand? Is this tolerance?

@neilf - Out of interest by immigrants do you mean *all* immigrants including those from the US, Australia, Western Europe etc or just those with a certain colour of skin and a propensity to pray facing Eastward?

At RichPenny - Apologies if my views on Catholicism distasteful but I personally I find any religion where its head openly preaches against homosexuality, the use of condoms in situations where they would be of clear benefit to the health and wellbeing of whole nations as well as the individuals therein, has huge inequalities between men and women and a church as an organisation that has for years and years covered up child abuse and has protected those who have committed such acts pretty offensive.

Cheers

Danny B

And just with dobbo, what, precisely, does this have to do with immigration to the UK, neilferther?

jamj1974 - Member
....the vast, vast majority of Muslims I have met don't want to live in a Muslim country either.

Just continuing topics raised EARLIER in the thread.......... maybe ask the originator of the subject jamj1974 why he raised it.

The immigration over the last few years runs into many millions. I live in London. London had a population of about 8 million. It is now unusual to hear a British accent in my home town.

And many have left. Who decides what the population of London should be? Who decides what accents they have and what languages they speak? No one. It's a natural, organic thing which evolves. Why is it important that people speak with a British accent? Where do you draw the line? I'm from Newcastle, would I be welcome with my geordie twang?

I am saying uncontrolled immigration is not a good idea. There are only so many jobs, so many places in schools, and a limited amount of money available for the NHS.

Even if you were right on jobs etc, which I would dispute, who decides whether 'locals' should get priority for jobs, schools, services etc? If immigrants pay taxes, contribute to society, abide by the law etc, they should get equal access to all of these things. And the NHS thing is ridiculous. If you're against immigration because of potential increased impact on NHS resources, then logically you should also be against ageing?

Do you really think that Britain was insular, homogenous and conformist?

Of course not. Immigration is ingrained into the culture and history of this country. It's not a new thing. The only thing that has changed is the attitudes of people like yourself who are easily led by the media and others into thinking that people who do not speak or look the same are somehow less entitled to live or work in a particular place.

Just continuing topics raised EARLIER in the thread..........

But why, if you're unable or unwilling to defend them?

You seem to think race , multiculturalism and Muslim are not an intersecting set and claim it is fallacious to suggest otherwise. I disagree and the reasons should be pretty obvious but perhaps you could use the example of the Jews

I would suggest that someone has already done a [i]considerable[/i] amount of research into whether Jewish people were an identifiable race, that had specific identifiable characteristics and his results showed up somewhat lacking, and we pretty much accept that he, and his parties theories were flawed - however more recent research pisses on your chips as well:

http://forward.com/articles/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/

You weren't talking about Catholicism, you were talking about Catholics. I share plenty of your distaste for the religion, but am happy to treat individual people as I find them. They are not the same thing in my experience.

@neilf

And lets not forget as a nation we do have a great track record of turning up and being respectful to the culture of other people's countries either.

Pretty sure the Aboriginals in Australia for example would have quite like to be able to walk down their street (so to speak) and not get murdered by English immigrants and to have other really rather unpleasant things done to them.

We could also mention the slave trade and a whole host of other historical nasties and I just think we should be careful before we bang on about how Unbritish or Unenglish these fine lands have become.

I was going to say pot, kettle etc but probably in poor taste on such a thread.

Cheers

Danny B

@RP - would you not consider a person following an intolerant religion as, by definition intolerant (assuming of course that they are devout)?

If they have chosen to take a more liberal line when it comes to same sex couples etc then are they truly Catholic?

Cheers

Danny B

But why, if you're unable or unwilling to defend them?

Defend what? What is there to defend in what I made as an observation, you tried to imply some complete irrelevance in to what I wrote.

trying falsely connect conditions in countries that aren't the UK with immigration to the UK.

Whats that got to do with a religious group not wanting to live in country ruled by there religion? I mentioned nothing about immigration or conditions, I don't even know what you mean by conditions, material or religious?

jamj1974 still hasn't given any reply as to why they don't want to live in muslim countries yet.

My story from ****stan merely illustrated what life is like in most Muslim countries I have seen, thus illustrating why so many Muslims would rather not live in a Muslim country.
I think immigration should be strictly controlled because we do not have the resources on this tiny island to support an infinite number of people. Also, I do not want to be in a minority in my own home.

That would include controls on people of any nationality. Not just ones with skin colour or cultural beliefs that are different to mine.

I think immigration should be restricted to people who have particular skills that we desperately need.

Zokes: Yes, I am aware of the irony, although I did not have a choice in the matter at the time.

Lovely blue sky outside at the mo.

Also, I do not want to be in a minority in my own home.

do you really believe that to be a possibility..?
if so, what has led you to that conclusion..?

We could also mention the slave trade and a whole host of other historical nasties and I just think we should be careful before we bang on about how Unbritish or Unenglish these fine lands have become.

What is remarkable is the British bringing an end to slavery.

Yunki: The primary school I attended now has 100% Asian children. They do not celebrate any Christian beliefs. They do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

So what? you might say. I am not religious either, but Christian values are quite important to our way of life. Would you send your children to a 100% Asian school? To be educated with Muslim values?
(Obviously it wouldn't be 100% Asian then, but you get my point)

I think immigration should be strictly controlled because we do not have the resources on this tiny island to support an infinite number of people. Also, I do not want to be in a minority in my own home.

There you go again with the silly comments. Infinite? Don't be ridiculous! And minority of what? And why do you think you have any say in this? And what makes it 'your' home specifically? What's to stop me moving there and calling it my home? Or anyone else for that matter? And what does it matter where I or others come from?

I am not sure we can absolve ourselves of all sins because others were doing it nor pat ourselves to much in the back for eventually ceasing the trade. It is nothing to be proud of unless we had never partaken though thiose who campaigned for the ending have my respect.

we do not have the resources on this tiny island to support an infinite number of people.

Also, I do not want to be in a minority in my own home

They wont make them all live in your house

@neilf - a very significant number Asians are not Muslim (China, Japan, huge swathes of India etc). Being Asian does not equal being a Muslim.

Also, are they really being educated in Muslim values as that would somewhat contradict the national curriculum. Unless it is now a faith school of course but then its religious leaning would be understandable.

Cheers

Danny B

I am not sure we can absolve ourselves of all sins because others were doing it nor pat ourselves to much in the back for eventually ceasing the trade

The primary school I attended now has 100% Asian children. They do not celebrate any Christian beliefs. They do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

Could you name it as the national curriculum clearly states that their should be a daily act of worship christian in nature

Behave mate this is daily Mail headline grabbing Pc dogooders ban christmas lights because muslamic swans made them

Link to the now 100% "Asian" school please

So what? you might say. I am not religious either, but Christian values are quite important to our way of life.

Would you send your children to a 100% Asian school?

To be educated with Muslim values?

The EDL are comprised of a multiply deprived people, not least in the complete absence of irony in their thinking (as we can see again on this thread).

Invading city centres to stage violent protests? Attacking the police force? Sieg Heil-ing with a peace sign?

It's just a compendium of idiocy.

When they came to Sheffield they were prevented from making a symbolic march to the war memorial by Sheffield residents and protest groups. The next week they came back staging a 'national' conference of bone-headed fascists.

Dissatisfied that they had not caused enough trouble for the residents of Sheffield, they rampaged through the city and stormed the University, invoking a campus-wide lock-down. As someone commented on Twitter, 'don't worry, they're only rounding up the intellectuals and Jews'.

Despite the blatant idiocy, this is a dangerous organisation, and should not be ignored or underestimated. They need to be opposed in every venue of our society to prevent the creeping British intolerance from being turned into racist witch-hunting.

@RP - would you not consider a person following an intolerant religion as, by definition intolerant (assuming of course that they are devout)?

No I wouldn't. Even the devout can be challenged on their beliefs, since religion is often a comforting cornerstone of society. Religions are as much cultural structures as they are spiritual. As such, I consider it healthier to approach an individual with an open mind rather than condemning them as intolerant. We have had millennia of religion shaping our culture, I would like to see it the other way round.

If they have chosen to take a more liberal line when it comes to same sex couples etc then are they truly Catholic?

I think so. People themselves can define what they are. The church seems satisfied to accept people with a wide range of beliefs without too many people being thrown out. As before, I would prefer more liberals within the church.

BTW, regarding the AIDS crisis in Africa, the influence of the Church is interesting. If the church is able to convince an entire continent that birth control is wrong, why is it unable to convince people of the benefits of abstinence outside marriage?

Zokes: I can hardly be bothered to answer your post. If we have uncontrolled immigration, then yes, an infinite number of people can come here. I hope they all come and swamp Newcastle. I hope you suffer the same level of violent crime that London has endured.
Its my home because I live here. That makes it my home.
You like to use the term bigot. A bigot is someone who will not listen to, or is intolerant of another persons views. You are not listening to mine or anyone else's.
You read my post and scream "racist bigot"

We led the world in [s]establishing human rights.[/s] stopping human rights abuses we were a heavily involved in. [s]You can't do any more than that.[/s] better than that would have been to have not done that

TBH I get your point yes what we did in ending slavery was the key and critical move in stopping it and it was clearly the right thing to do. Yes we deserve some credit for it. However stopping doing a bad thing does not make you a goodie.

the reality is it that it is a trickle

3.91 million non-British long term immigrants to the UK in the decade 1997-2006

By 2006 Foreign-born persons accounted for about 10% of the population (and about 12% of the working-age population aged 16-64).

Trickle?

If we have uncontrolled immigration, then yes, an infinite number of people can come here.

A bigot is someone who will not listen to, or is intolerant of another persons views.

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

You are not listening to mine or anyone else's.

Are you trying to justify the existence of the EDL by your immigration 'debate'?

It all plays into their hands.

Condemn the fascists. The EDL are the new face of the far-right. Move on.

Junkyard: I was answering Yunkis post. Of course the website is not going to advertise themselves as 100% Asian. Perhaps one or two Eastern European children go there now. The parents association is certainly 100% Asian.
I made the point in answer to Yunki's question. What makes me think I am in danger of becoming a minority?

How are you going to send your children to a non religious skool if it is the law of the land to have Christian services?

I hope you suffer the same level of violent crime that London has endured.

Wonderful. So now you're pinning all violent crime in London on immigrants! Really mate, if you're going to spout rubbish like this at least give up with the 'I'm not racist, but' pretence. And I live in Manchester by the way (and my name's not Zokes!), which is a wonderfully diverse, ethnically and culturally mixed place to live, where for the most part, we all get on and you can walk down the road without being beaten up by an immigrant. It's also largely free of neanderthal EDL apologists thankfully.

Its my home because I live here. That makes it my home.

They live there too. Does that make it their home too?

5thElefant - Member

We led the world in establishing human rights. You can't do any more than that.

Oh how quaint this narrow British-centric view of history is 🙂

You'll note that the Declaration of the Rights of Man isn't written in English :

[img] [/img]

And that icon of human rights, the Statue of Liberty, was a gift from the people of France, not the people of Britain.

Yes Britain played a vital and leading role, but it was far from unique. And it mercilessly put down rebellion within its empire through repression and persecution. It was Britain's exceptional talents in controlling subjugated populations that led it to create the world's first concentration camps. Hitler was particularly impressed with Britain's ability to control such a vast number of people in India with so few men that he used it as an example for Nazi conquered lands.

Q. Why would Muslims not want to live in a 'Muslim' country.

A1. They are not originally from Muslim countries
A2. They prefer a secular government
A3. They like a cosmopolitan and diverse culture to live within
A4. They do not see the rule of law and religion as synonymous

@neilf - apologies, you are confusing me now. Is the school you mention 100% Asian or 100% Muslim (or indeed both). If both are you 100% sure that no Hindu's or Sikhs have snuck in (Sikhs are easy to spot BTW - they're the ones who wear rolled up tea-towels on their heads, also known as a turban) have snuck in for example.

If 100% Asian are you sure none of the kids there were born in Asia and not in England thus making them English (same applies to the parents).

And are none of them Somali or the like which would make them African?

Cheers

Danny B

All this talk

its easier just to have a massive big ruck and get it all done with

It was Britain's exceptional talents in controlling subjugated populations that led it to create the world's first concentration camps.

The empire worked with such few men because it wasn't based on subjugation. There were more plus sides to being part of the empire than downsides. Exactly the same model as the roman empire. We brought technology, infrastructure and trade.

We brought technology, infrastructure and trade.

What about aqueducts?

For me it comes down to simply this, seriously how can anyone defend the idea that intolerance is acceptable?

What about aqueducts?

The empire worked with such few men because it wasn't based on subjugation.

😀 The British were universally loved throughout India !

They didn't want us to leave ...... gawd bless'em !

Of course the website is not going to advertise themselves as 100% Asian.

Perhaps one or two Eastern European children go there now. The parents association is certainly 100% Asian.

There were more plus sides to being part of the empire than downsides.

We brought technology, infrastructure and trade so that we could exploit the shit out of all your resources and make shits loads of money. if you benefited it was purely by accident .

FTFY