Echo chamber?

woke is an americanism meaning " sees discrimination is not blind to it"

Its nothing to do with virtue signalling.  thats a classic way of dismissing it.

I like the bit where Binners is a brexiteer 😆

Seems to be a wider issue tbh, the creeping authoritarianism of the left

those in government of whatever hue.

e.g. The proposed legislation before the current parliament to ban striking, a fundamental human right. The other side wanted ID cards despite them being an anathema to 'The British'.

an echo chamber maybe if you consider certain posters putting across the. same. bloody. points. on every. political. thread.

binners et. al. considered brexiteers because they accept the reality of our current situation? have a word with yourself.

this thread's irony level is off the scale.

davros
Free Member
I like the bit where Binners is a brexiteer 😆

Is he? The bloody bar steward!

I'm off to Twitter!

Those of us who remain have been banned, moderated and warned into avoiding subjects where the playground mob is offended* and then report.

I have never been banned because of holding an opinion, nor have I had my opinions ever been moderated, nor warned to avoid certain subjects. Despite the fact that I am sure several people must have been offended by my opinions at a some point over the years.

It's been a good few years since I have been slapped a 48 hour ban but as far as I can recall the only bans I have received have been for language/swear filter avoidance, and without doubt justified - I regularly used to forget to mind my language.

The political cleansing of threads, if it occurs, doesn't come from moderation imo but from intolerance and bullying by other forum users.

Seriously though, politically it's very much an echo chamber. All you have to do is look at the comments on any BBC news article to see that we're missing all the swivel-eyed loons, the antivaxers, the tin-foil hatters etc which seem to make up a reasonable proportion of any politics thread. I'll see if I can invite them over, they'll love it.

I have never been banned because of holding an opinion, nor have I had my opinions ever been moderated, nor warned to avoid certain subjects. Despite the fact that I am sure several people must have been offended by my opinions at a some point.

I too have never been banned for my opinions.  Only for being an arse

I doubt you offend anyone Ernie.  I don't remember anything offensive from you.  always polite just ruddy infuriating at time 🙂

the only bans I have received have been for language/swear filter avoidance,

It wasa bit more than that, it was a tyrade of sweary abuse directed directly at me. 🙂

The political meta thread.

Just a reflection of how everything is not going well.

I regularly used to forget to mind my language.

I always thought that was the approved approach, just swear your cock off and let the filters take the strain?

It wasa bit more than that, it was a tyrade of sweary abuse directed directly at me. 🙂

Really? I don't recall getting banned for that. How do even know that I was banned for that. I didn't think that the mods made public individual decisions?

The only sweary exchange I can recall was when Labrat once used an expletive to attack me and I responded in kind. A mod emailed to inform me that swearing at someone because they swore at you was no excuse for swearing and we both got a two day ban.

I like the bit where Binners is a brexiteer

More or less than when he was Hitler?

I always thought that was the approved approach, just swear your cock off and let the filters take the strain?

You can unintentionally avoid the swear filter, although probably less so these days. Especially if it is a combination of words. I once got in trouble with a mod for using a less polite version of halfwit.

Really, you didn't post for a couple of days and then miracle, apologised. And really, you didn't make your views on Brexit public until way ofter the referendum. Check out the original in/out thread, you were notable for your absence. Work back from here:

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/250

Edukator - how about not turning this thread into bickering?

You accuse me of bickering, TJ, when he's the one accusing me of lying in his round about way. He keeps doubting the verity of what I'm saying which is what he always does.

He's bigged himself up stating he is the only pround Brexiter around and has been form the start and neither is true, but he turns it around and acuses me of lying. So I've been playing his game. Anyone can check, the in/out thread is there for all to read. There were about 130 members who declared how they'd vote, just over 50 leave, over 70 reamin and Ernie didn't declare.

Check who's right before you take sides in his stupid echo-chamber playground bullying tiff.

Good night all.

Echo chamber indeed.

Christ. Never mind a swear-filter. A spelling-filter would be more useful.

And really, you didn’t make your views on Brexit public until way ofter the referendum

Are you actually carrying on with an argument on another thread onto this one?

The idea that I have not always been opposed to the EU is absurd, if you want to make that allegation then it gives some context to your claim that I was once banned because I allegedly swore at you. Sounds like bollocks to me, to use a swear filter safe term.

Sounds like bollocks to me,

See Tj. Point out an inconvenient truth and he just accuses you of lying.

Read the original in/out thread from the start readers and make you own minds up.

Yes Ed.  You started the bickering on this thread.   Wrecked it nicely.  Ta

Ernie was daft to rise to you but everyone can see you started the bickering.  Very obvious

Well, before this gets closed, no, it's not an echo chamber and slightly amusingly... This bickering proves that I suppose.😁

Hahaha,

If STW has a right wing conservative bias then Marx and Mao are centerists 😂😂

I wouldn't describe it as an echo chamber though. Plenty of nice threads to break out tea and biscuits over. A good thing IMO as long as arguments are made respectfully.

Well, before this gets closed

I think they're bickering about something off-topic that nobody else cares about.

Inevitably, Brexit 😂

*Glances at thread.....

*Hovers.....

*Ponders.....

*Thinks better of it......

*Waves......

*Scrolls on by......

Edited: Previous post got reposted for some reason, weird.

This brings to mind another thought.

some folk on STW seem able to remember ( and care about) who said what from years ago.  I can barely remember what I said yesterday.  Its just not that important to me.

discuss at the time, get heated perhaps.  But remember it years later and bear a grudge?  Not me and clearly not some others either but clearly some folk do

I find that odd.

I bet you’ve got a spreadsheet all to yourself…

🙂

some folk on STW seem able to remember

My recollection is reasonably good, which does mean I remember EL's long sabbatical - through choice I believe - from this forum so it is hardly a surprise that he didn't post on the Brexit thread because he was largely absent during much of the time it ran - so I don't believe it was a case of dscretiion being the better part of valour.

I also recall Ed being surprised to discover that Jamba worked in financial services and that THM didn't live in Scotland so I don't think he is overly blessed with deductive powers, rather like a certain French inspector.

My recollection is reasonably good, which does mean I remember EL’s long sabbatical – through choice I believe – from this forum so it is hardly a surprise that he didn’t post on the Brexit thread because he was largely absent during much of the time it ran

I was around at the time of the referendum and I did post before and after the referendum. I have never posted on the current Brexit thread.

I have a long established belief that it is impossible to have a sensible debate on here about the EU, so I tend to do myself a favour and not get involved. This is what I wrote six years ago in response to a comment made by GrahamS :

listen Graham, I’ve kept mostly off the 159 pages of pointless arguing on this thread.

On the one hand you have UKIP inspired xenophobic gibberish.

And on the other hand you have the “EU is awful but if you don’t vote Remain a big bad Tory government will come and get you, and also it probably means that you support racists murdering people in our streets” argument.

Leavers want to focus on the hordes of Muslim terrorists queuing up to enter the UK because of the EU.

While the Remainers want to focus on personalities rather than real issues, ie, “Don’t you just hate IDS, Gove, and Boris? Well then vote to remain in the EU”.

The possibility of having a sensible debate on the issue is about as likely as me voting Tory.

So beyond making the occasional foray I quite frankly can’t be arsed.

Posted 6 years ago

And this was my response to the claim that Leavers were all loonies:

I didn’t say that. Loonies of all persuasions seem to hate the EU.

Well if you are opposed to the neo-liberal agenda opposing the EU makes a lot of sense. I don’t think it provides evidence that you are some kind of loony.

I question the sanity of those who claim to be socialist and yet support the EU.

It’s a bit like claiming that you’re going to vote Tory after saying that you despise everything that the Tories have done.

“You need to speak to someone” would be my suggestion.

Posted 6 years ago
REPORT

I contributed quite a lot to the thread but refused to get bogged down into the nonsense arguments which both sides in that thread had a passion for. I made my opposition to the EU very clear from the very start. Just like I continue to do so today.

I was around at the time of the referendum and I did post before and after the referendum. I have never posted on the current Brexit thread.

I did have a recollection of you posting on it but your old user name seemed to fall into disuse I guess about 5 years ago and that thread had hardly reached adolescence then!

Yeah my old username was ernie_lynch, I had a long self-imposed break from posting, although I would still read stuff. Then I couldn't use my old username as I didn't know my password and the old email provider freeserve no longer existed, so I re-registered as a simple solution.

STW an echo chamber? No.

Repetive with the same circular arguments? Yes.

Although if there were an echo the author would inevitably argue with it.

An echo chamber is a closed system, it seeks to actively expel dissent.

Well, it’s not “the management”/STW doing it, and there’s obviously no written official policy, but that is effectively exactly what happened/happens.

"I'm so unpopular! It must be everyone else's fault!"

Is that the problem, that we have a vastly higher than average proportion of people who aren't idiots? So when, say, a flat earther dips their toe in the water they're shocked when they get robustly rebuked? Perhaps because they've come here from an echo chamber?

Well done you, using a decade out of date definition to paint me as a racist.
Go ask the average person on the street today what woke means and race will figure very little.

We were asked what it means (was it you who asked?). I explained. Any inference thereafter is your own.

If the question had been instead to ask what "someone on the street" thinks it means, that's a wholly different question and you'd have to ask them because I've no idea. What it means to you is however you've chosen to redefine it, it could mean "buying a sandwich" for all I know.

"Woke" in this context (ie, as opposed to meaning "not asleep") has referred to racial awareness relating to African Americans for like a century, it just wasn't all that common this side of the pond. It's recent redefining to be a pejorative as you've just done is a white pushback to the Black Lives Matter movement.

Those of us who remain have been banned, moderated and warned into avoiding subjects where the playground mob is offended* and then report. When was there last a religion thread? We’ve been trained.

Bollocks.

Are you calling him a liar?

I'd profer if you really feel that strongly about a bunch of mostly white middle-class medicated old sours disagreeing with you on an incestuous forum, you probably need to get out on your bike a little more

It can be a source of knowledge, but that knowledge can be gained elsewhere. The rest of the noise can be ignored if you choose.

I have a long established belief that it is impossible to have a sensible debate on here about the EU, so I tend to do myself a favour and not get involved.

That's at least the third time today (OK, yesterday, it's post-midnight) that you've asserted how much you don't get involved with EU / brexit conversations. You're still not very good at it.

For what it's worth though, for all that we've had a difference of opinion at a user level, I don't recall you getting many if any warnings / bans. To my memory you've always been civil (just bastard hard work to debate with😁).

You can unintentionally avoid the swear filter, although probably less so these days. Especially if it is a combination of words. I once got in trouble with a mod for using a less polite version of halfwit.

If that happened - and I have no way of checking now - then it was a mistake in Moderation. Policy, in so far as there was ever anything approaching a policy, was that users should just allow the swear filter to do its job and not be penalised when it doesn't.

Are you calling him a liar?

I'm not calling him anything, I'm saying he is incorrect.

I was a moderator for ten years, I know what is and isn't allowed and he's incorrect. Fact. Whether he's being deliberately incorrect and therefore lying, I have no way of knowing. You'll have to ask him that.

I've seen any number of "I was banned because..." or "we're not allowed to talk about..." or "I had a warning when..." posts and in the vast majority of cases they are, shall we say 'economical with the truth' at best. Or hyperbolic, perhaps.

But, "bollocks" was quicker to type than a bunch of sentences.

OP - try reading the bike forum once in a while and give the chat forum a rest.

That’s at least the third time today (OK, yesterday, it’s post-midnight) that you’ve asserted how much you don’t get involved with EU / brexit conversations. You’re still not very good at it.

I beg to disagree, I think I am very good at it! I have always made my position quite clear - I am opposed to the EU, but I avoid debates about the subject, especially 6 years after the referendum, because firstly it is impossible imo to have a sensible debate about it and now secondly because staying in the EU is no longer an option, nor is rejoining. I actually get some stick due to my refusal to debate the issue.

There are 10 kinds of people on forums -

Those that are interested in what other people think

Those that understand binary

I like the bit where Binners is a brexiteer

More or less than when he was Hitler?

I’m going for a variation of the Lemmy defence. The Nazi’s had better typography, as many metal bands will testify

However, I could never be a Brexiteer due to their appalling insistence of only using 2 primary colours

Your up early.

I’m a vampire as well as a Nazi Brexiteer

jeepers that escalated from what was actually a fairly interesting discussion

I avoid debates about the subject

I find that the best way to avoid debates about a given subject is to not post several times a day proclaiming how much you're not talking about it.

jeepers that escalated from what was actually a fairly interesting discussion

You are not surprised about that though are you 🙂

There is a bike forum? Well blow me, I just learnt something new....

What a very strange thread this turned into.

What I will say is that we hand very few warnings, especially relative to the number of posts and members. Bans you have to do something spectacular to be banned and will be against the rules we all agreed to. Life bans are even rarer.

You do a good job. And thank you.

Anyway, the only valuable thing I'm taking from this thread is that I think we should all start using the word "hyperbollocks"... it has a nice ring to it.

Bans you have to do something spectacular to be banned and will be against the rules we all agreed to.

Not in my experience.

Bans you have to do something spectacular to be banned and will be against the rules we all agreed to.

Very much agree with this - a couple of times I've been on the end of personal abuse/insults, responded in kind and waited for the temporary ban, only to find the mods have carefully taken the time to delete the offensive posts from both sides.

Not in my experience.

Cool!

Sorry Mods - I didn't think this would descend into a row!  I thought it an interesting topic

TJ. Your initial post just seems miles put to me. So completely inaccurate on both counts.

I totally agree with the following. And am frankly gobsmacked that you see it otherwise. It's actually quite scary that you seem to think STW threads are a non EC and are representative of the population as a whole.

Every political thread can be summed up thus : “we all hate the Tories, we all hate brexit”.

It’s hardly “a huge variety of views”.

It’s what might be described as an echo chamber.

This is just insanity:

I would now consider folk like rone, Dazh and Binners as brexiteers as they have accepted it

Aha, this sums up my thoughts perfectly

Is like calling you a Russian Nationalist because you’ve accepted that you can’t personally go out to Ukraine and fight.

I wouldn't say it's an echo chamber, but it is very much a dad's playgroup.

There's an awful lot of showy-offy opinionating in the vain of "soon they will recognise that I am in fact right about everything if only I can post loudly enough". There's huge amounts of passive aggressive "surely you can see" or "are you disagreeing with this expert?" which on the face of it looks fine enough but is designed to wind people up. Some posters (especially on political threads) do it all the time. There's a lot of "listen to me" and not a lot of "I'd like to know more about, can you tell me?"

I lurk mostly nowadays 'casue it can be quite unpleasant. It does "smell of boy" here quite a bit.

^ yeah, but its the smell of a boy who believes that you dont need to wash if you paid over £50 for your organic artisan merino base layers, rather than sterioids, ralgex and a top layer of lynx africa, no?

for a naval gazing thread, this isnt the worst ive seen

(high praise actually)

TJ. Your initial post just seems miles put to me. So completely inaccurate on both counts.

Which shows its not an echo chamber?

I don't think its representative of the population as a whole as I said in several posts.  We are missing the hard right and the ideologivcal brexitters ( mainly)

I would now consider folk like rone, Dazh and Binners as brexiteers as they have accepted it

thats my opinion.  Disagree fine.  shows its not an echo chamber

labour are now a brexit party - thats undeniable.  IMO if you now support labour then you support brexit.  You have the right to a different opinion and the space to express it.  I used to think Starmer would be a good PM and was honest.  Th last few weeks and that big speech shows he is neither.  He has travelled to become a brexiteer so is complicit now in the greatest act of self harm to the UK in my lifetime.

labour are now a brexit party – thats undeniable. IMO if you now support labour then you support brexit.

I'd vote Labour because it's a two-horse race here and they aren't the Tories. It stinks but there's little other option. If you think that means I support brexit then you haven't been paying attention for the last six years.

labour are now a brexit party

No it isn't. It is not Labour policy to leave the EU. It is Labour policy to accept that the UK has left the EU.

You can't exit from something which you aren't in.

Cool!

Not really, but there you go.

I’d vote Labour because it’s a two-horse race here and they aren’t the Tories. It stinks but there’s little other option. If you think that means I support brexit then you haven’t been paying attention for the last six years.

+1

It is not Labour policy to leave the EU. It is Labour policy to accept that the UK has left the EU.

Also +1. The ship has sailed, and further, for Labour to stand on a ticket for immediate readmission would be daft, if not completely suicidal. I mean, they might still win but with a very small majority in reality and will bugger up all the things they will want and need to do when they inherit the shitshow.

Call me a brexiteer too if you will; we're right now standing in a burning house. I'd rather my housemates hadn't set it on fire but that's now too late. I can stand here and complain about why they did it, and indeed still will, but at the same time I need to be trying to work out what to do to put the fire out and mitigate the damage. That's absolutely not the same as being the arsonist.

Labour are more of a ruling out trying to rejoin the EU rather than a Brexit party. And holding the next election on Brexit would be a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for digging up your own quotes, Ernie, they are fairly balanced rather than leave and at no point did you write the critical word "out" up to the day of the refererendum - I will humbly grovel if you can find me that. Edit - it wasn't me who hit the report button this time though I have done in the past.

My first contribution to the in/out thread was in reply to Jamba:

"We will be much better off out,"

Says someone who is married to/living with French lady, works for a company that has offices in Paris (are you still in Paris Jamby?) and does business all over the world. Cut off your nose to spite your face.

I can find many flaws with the EU, mainly the lack of eurobonds despite a European central bank and an uneven economic playing field. However on a personal level I value the rights and freedoms its given me.

I’m in either way, but can’t vote.
Posted 6 years ago
Reply | Report

I said I was in either way because of my dual nationality. Since you said you did French military service I assumed you are too, Ernie. The family history you've described starting in Latin America then France then you father settling in the UK with French nationality points to that. You wouldn't have been called up for French military service if you weren't a French national and there would be no reason to relinquish it once that duty accomplished. However you've spent nearly all your life in England and would have sought British nationality at some point if you had any sense.

So along with all the other dual nationals it was easy to be fairly relaxed about Brexit on a personal level. Some of my family and friends I knew would be hard hit and they have been. 🙁

Lots more dual nationals on the forum now with passports from Belgium, Ireland, Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands... .

Woppit, Cougar, Woppit, oh and Don Simon.

Thank you for showing such keen interest in me and my parentage Ed, but this thread isn't suppose to be about me.

Nevertheless to quickly clear up some points. My father did not have French nationality, he was Argentine with French and Italian parentage. My mother had French nationality - both her parents were French. I was born in France and obviously have French nationality. I still don't have dual nationality, absurd I know considering that after years of not speaking French I would struggle to string a sentence. But being a foreigner in the UK is far easier than you might imagine and applying for British nationality would be very time consuming and costly, with no appreciable advantages. Although I do still intend to eventually get round to doing it, maybe.

at no point did you write the critical word “out” up to the day of the refererendum

Well of course not, why FFS would I declare my position on the day of the referendum? It was very well established that I was strongly opposed to the EU from the onset. Did you write the critical word "in" on the day of the referendum so that everyone would be aware of your position?

And in case you haven't noticed my political position is somewhat on the far-left of UK politics. The stance I take is somewhere in the region of 95-98% in line with Morning Star editorials. The Morning Star has been passionately opposed to the EU since long before the ukip even existed. It fully supported the Labour Party's 1983 election manifesto commitment to leave the EEC.

My quote from 6 years ago which I posted on the previous page should have given you a clue of my position 6 years ago. Here it is again:

I question the sanity of those who claim to be socialist and yet support the EU.

I hope that settles everything although I doubt that it will.

but at the same time I need to be trying to work out what to do to put the fire out and mitigate the damage. That’s absolutely not the same as being the arsonist.

If you refuse to even consider putting out the fire which is what labour policy is then you are not much better.

The ship has sailed,

Nope.  its not.  or why does 2 rejoin parties continue to hold such a big part of scottish politics?  No matter how much you widsh its not a dead issue and its never going to go away.  Labour can wish it away but its not going to happen.  It will be a major issue at the next election like it or not

no. i'm out.

I don't characterise them as "rejoin parties".

They are parties campaigning on a range of issues of which rejoin is one aspect. Plus, it is a workable proposition in Scotland, with a substantial support, nws being able to become independent first.

Labour need to get themselves elected first and then can work on rebuilding what has been lost. Would I like them to be more active, yes, but in this unfair game, play by the devious rules to get what's needed. Not as if parties have then diverged from their stated manifesto aims before......

edit - yep, I'm out too, I too am guilty of dragging it into another Brexit thread. On topic, there are divergent opinions, accept it.

At risk of repeating the In/out thread, The EU as a whole is a whole lot more socialist than the UK and the electoral system a lot more democratic with all factions represented as it's proportional representation. I live in a country described as "socialist land" by American journalists which operates its eductataion system, state controlled businesses, health service, public services, public infrastructure... lots of socialist goodness within the framework of the EU - it might even be your UK energy supplier.

As for far left, I've had little time for communists since reading Animal Farm. 😉 And the Morning Star declares itself to be communist.

The other jonv

MY point is that by showing leadership, countering the brexiteers narrative and making rejoin the main non constitutional policy those parties have increased support.  Labour could have done the same but they refused

Instead Starmer has lied about the EU, supported the brexiteeers narrative and thus legitimised it.

Plus, it is a workable proposition in Scotland, with a substantial support,

Beause the main parties have made and continue to make the case for rejoin.  Starmer could have done the same.  Rejoin is majority view in England as well

I'm quite in awe at all these cool kids getting bans. As far as I remember, I've only ever received one warning - for saying that I found a certain female member of the opposition attractive. No reason was given except 'against the rules'. Perhaps I said it in a crass or ungentlemanly way, but regardless, it's their ball and they put the money in the meter so the warning was heeded and no more appreciative remarks were made about said member of parliament.

Interestingly though, I remember making a similar remark about a female member of the government and no warning was issued.

Makes you think...

I live in a country described as “socialist land” by American journalists

Well you can't argue with that. If there's one thing Americans are noted for it's knowing a socialist when they see one.

back on topic (and I see you've responded about Brexit, I'm not answering, at least not here, you have my opinions and I don't think the forum needs another brexit thread)

WRT echo chambers and manner and style of debates on here.

A critical review of your post, bearing in mind the relative % of meaning that is lost by not having verbal or body language, only the written word.

...you are not much better

Nope. It's not.

....like it or not.

- they come across to me as quite confrontational / shutdown language. I read them and sighed 'here we go again' .  If we want decent debate to be tolerated and to be less of an echo chamber, we need to be better at choosing our words.

Maybe I'm oversensitive / too corporate but I'd really hesitate to use phrasing like that in an email or a meeting. It might be mealy mouthed, but

'I can see why you think that but in my opinion the brexit ship hasn't sailed yet and.here's why I think that.....'

Might be wordy but otherwise can you predict the interpretation of the subtext to 'No. It's not' to me? You've done nothing to accept or validate that I have a different opinion, just immediately said it's worthless.

Fair enough.  Its all gone circular again

Edit:  I find that sort of phrasing passive / agressive.  But point taken

Oh and from page 2 of this thread:

Biggest leftie echo chamber of any sites I’ve ever visited.

Honestly, no one is forcing you to stay. Other forums are available, simple as.

We are missing the hard right and the ideologivcal brexitters

Tj, with respect, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before. But I think one of the reasons you sometimes get yourself into bickering matches is that your language sometimes feels contrived and disingenuous.

See 'hard right' to me (and maybe it's just me) brings up thoughts of people like Nick Griffin, Combat 18 and the National Front. Actual shitheads. So as a fervent remainer, I assume you're doing this deliberately in order to paint leavers as racists. Rather than the much more nuanced and varied reasons people probably voted leave, from just a taking a massive gamble, to a protest over austerity, to concerns about loss of identity and dwindling resources like access to a GP or competition for jobs or affordable housing. None of which are 'hard right' or racist.

See also people on here calling out those with different views as 'trolls'. It's used as a weapon to beat down anyone who doesn't agree with you.