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Because an e-bike is more effishient?
I’ve often wondered how many people who object to e-bikes would happily get an uplift at BPW or jump on a chairlift in the alps…
I take my ebike to BPW and get the uplift. It's great for the pedally top bits and even better for getting from the very bottom trail back to to the van when you're goosed near the end of the day
I don’t get the whole ‘cast’ thing here? Is there a form of transport which requires you to have a cast fitted? Is this some sort of distasteful reference to motorised wheelchairs maybe?
There's no need to cast one type of rider as an other.
I don’t get the whole ‘cast’ thing here?.......
If so I think it’s in very poor taste indeed.
Ouch. Genuinely sorry about that. To be clear, the poem was composed by Chat GPT. I didn't even read it properly and even if I had I think I might have missed the possible offence caused by the word "cast" as in all honesty I thought that was how you spelt "caste" as in a "member of a social order/ sect" type scenario.
I suppose it does illustrate an interesting point about Chatbot AI though.
Apologies once again and I'll play more attention to the output of CHAT GPT from now on if I use it!
Clocked up 23 miles on my Trek Rail on Monday sessioning the runs at FOD. Around 4000ft of climbing I think in about 5 hours, god knows how many runs. My Capra would have been better for GBU as it’s pretty flat and you need to hit to top jumps around 20mph but apart from that definitely the right tool for the location.
A few riders on old fashioned proper bikes asked me what it was like there on an ebike so I happily spent 5 minutes evangelising about them.
Made some new riding buddies, it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
That’s crazy talk!
it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
Links/pics or it didn't happen.
I fell out with a good friend on yesterdays ride because he was on one of those new fancy Forestal light weight eeber things and I was on my trusty old full power Kenevo.
I've also crossed him off my Christmas card list as we're now incompatible as mates.
Ride an e-bike went to ride The Monkey at Cannock on Sunday. Saw more e-bikes than before and some awful behaviour, dreadful braking, ‘Strava line’ riding, pressuring and forcing past slower riders uphill.
The issue is not e-bikes, but a lack of consideration and perhaps a decline in understanding how to ride reasonably with skill.
Thankfully, I don’t ride on trail centre trails that often and you see that sort of thing less ‘off piste’.
Clocked up 23 miles on my Trek Rail on Monday sessioning the runs at FOD. Around 4000ft of climbing I think in about 5 hours, god knows how many runs.
Glad you had a good day out sounds fun. I'm assuming FOD trails are maintained, but that's still considerably more erosion than would happen with a normal bike.
The trails in my local woods aren't maintained apart from the kids who build them. Non of them ride e-mtb's just the usual mix of bikes kids ride. They hang out there digging chatting having a few runs. On the other hand it's the older more affluent e-mtb riders who trash them, an e-mtb turns every ride into an uplift day. Instead of loosing the will to live after pedalling up a couple of times it's run after run.
Does the uplift provider at FoD contribute to trails maintenance?
There’s an uplift at FoD?
How do we feel about peddle and pop bikes?
I tried to be patient about ebikers, and keep my sense of moral outrage to myself and the occasional post on stw but lost it when I saw a few weeks ago that they've trashed half of the borrowdale Bash already. Why? ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn't be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn't be ridden (and a normal bike would either push, carry or go elsewhere so not cut the enormous ruts).
This was on a ride where some fat old bloke on a 10 grand electric motorbike went apoplectic in outrage at me for passing him (with loads of room) as he nimminied his way down the first descent.
"You need to look on Strava! I'm faster than you you ****ing **** **** **** look at you with your extra pivot pulley wheel ****". Ok mate.
Sorry, room 101. Get in the sea.
The issue is not e-bikes, but a lack of consideration and perhaps a decline in understanding how to ride reasonably with skill.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
My main interests are road biking and running (yeah, I dunno why I'm here either).
I'm so glad battery power isn't ruining those for proper riders/runners just yet.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that it's absolutely brilliant that loads more people are discovering our sport and getting out and enjoying themselves, facilitated by the accessibility of eBikes. I only ride 'amish bikes' btw - for now, but think eBikes are great.
ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn’t be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn’t be ridden
I could understand that could happen, but amy other rider e-bike or otherwise, is welcome to pass me - as I am slow nowadays. I also avoid black trails or options since the summer due to the increased chance of
head injury.
“You need to look on Strava! I’m faster than you you * * * * look at you with your extra pivot pulley wheel ****”. Ok mate.
Sounds like trackdays where some talentless arse with a fat wallet and a Nissan gtr thinks he shouldn't pull over and let the rusty mx5 past because his gtr can go round the ring in under 8 minutes (in the hands of someone with talent)
Plenty of large egos on the race track,sounds similar to above.
Glad you had a good day out sounds fun. I’m assuming FOD trails are maintained, but that’s still considerably more erosion than would happen with a normal bike.
Big assumption there fella.
1. FOD trails are maintained by a brilliant group of volunteers, wish I could join but I live 3 hours away. I did used to run the trail building club in my local forest so have put more than my share of time and money in over the years
2. Yes, I’m doing more runs than people on non-e-bikes but I’m not spinning up the rear tyre on the climbs, I ride as smoothly as possible, and I’m pretty much not touching the brakes for most of the descents.
3. There is an uplift service there for people on regular bikes.
Remember that time when "all the gear and no idea" didn't exist before e-bikes? Halcyon days.
I caught up with an ebiker on a trail the other day, he shat it when I said hello. Strange 🤷♂️
Was chatting with an ebiker out on my local trails the other week and he said that since he chipped it, he can hit 40mph!
A neighbour has an ebike so he can keep up with his very fit teenage sons.
Saw three teenage lads on lightweight electric MX bikes today. Never saw them on the trails but did see some bike wheel spin marks on a trail not too far from where I saw them.
Was chatting to a hiker at the top of one of the hills in Dunkeld a few weeks back. He mentioned that he was thinking of getting an ebike like his pal's called a Surron, he was surprised when I pointed out that a Surron was not technically an ebike but an electric motor bike so wouldn't be legal to ride on mountain bike trails.
My 60 year old mountain biking pal says that ebikes are cheating.
Was looking in a Trek shop today at the new Trek EXE, it was lovely, it was also over £7k.
I have been out cycling locally 4 times in the last 7 days on four different bikes, the most fun I had was on the one that had no motor, no suspension and only one gear.
I still fancy an ebike but can't afford/justify one right now.
Favourite term for a non assisted push bike is "Flintstone bike" 😅
My 60 year old mountain biking pal says that ebikes are cheating.
I don't understand this "cheating" notion. Who are they trying to win against?
Is being on a bike in the first place not cheating when you should be running?
People.
My pal has ridden an ebike for reference. He just thinks you should work for your fun on the bike.
Besides it's his opinion and I respect that (but not necessarily agree with it).
I don’t understand this “cheating” notion. Who are they trying to win against?
Is being on a bike in the first place not cheating when you should be running?
People.
themselves possibly? I used to enjoy the challenge of a big, steep climb under my own power. Not anymore because I’m a fat, lethargic knacker with lungs made out of crisp packets since Covid. I can understand the mindset though. Don’t necessarily agree with it mind
Edit - Wonder if this is the longest running thread to be posted in the wrong forum.
the most fun I had was on the one that had no motor, no suspension and only one gear.
The only bike I have and won't be changing any time soon. However, I don't care that other people are riding different bikes and 'cheating' with suspension, gears and even electric motors as they are riding what they enjoy and I am riding what I enjoy.
What I don't understand is when some on here say its a good thing to get more people out onto the hills. It's very noble and all that but don't you go riding to get away from everyone? I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes, and ebikes enable them to get to spots that would otherwise be largely inaccessible to them. At least not so frequently.
I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes, and ebikes enable them to get to spots that would otherwise be largely inaccessible to them
This is the biggest issue with ebikes. It allows people who wouldn't put the effort in to ride in general or couldn't ride at that speed to do so. The second issue is with their proliferation it make mtbing more exclusive in a financial sense which is the wrong way to exclude people. Arguably that boat has already sealed unless you're already in and know how to sort bikes out cheaply.
He just thinks you should work for your fun on the bike.
Fair enough but that's just like, his opinion. The idea that effort makes it more worthy is how we have all this pro racing stuff driving bike development and marketing, making cycling a weird lycra-clad wattage-blahlah or dorky full face and goggles high-fiving thing in the eyes of the public. It doesn't help things generally.
Bikes should be fun like they are to a 5 year old, nothing more complex than that. I like ebikes because they get us closer to the point where bikes are a fun way to get around for all and that includes e-MTB as well as Tern GSDs.
It’s very noble and all that but don’t you go riding to get away from everyone?
No. I go riding because I like riding my bike, there being other people around doesn't bother me.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
I keep bumping into emtbers on my local trails in the Peak, who don't have the faintest idea where they are or where they're going. One guy on a brand new Kenevo, I think, in brand new riding kit admitted he had a route on his brand new Garmin, but didn't know how to follow it. He didn't know where he'd started from, except 'there was a station there'. I don't really have a problem with that. He seemed happy enough, we pointed him roughly towards more trails and off he went.
I suspect it's somewhat similar to the changing hiker demographic round here, where you see more and more people wandering around Kinder, say, in non-technical casual clothes or sports clothing following stuff on their phones. Folk who presumably discovered the outdoors over lockdown and have kept at it since.
Maybe if I were mountain rescue, I'd have a slightly different attitude, but my basic take is that it doesn't make any difference to me as an individual, they're presumably out having a good time.
I'd guess there are two vague types of emtb riders, those who've ridden mountain bikers before and now ride e-bikes and those who've discovered mountain biking through emtbs.
Wasn't there a Scottish University survey recently - last year - that looked at whether emtbers were less clued into the outdoors in the sense of knowing about navigations, rights of way, trail etiquette etc.
I haven't bothered reading this whole thread but almost all my local trail building / maintenance is being done by e-bike owners (who also own normal bikes). The ebikes are essentially self-uplift bikes, for steeper trails where you have to push back up (and also for official uplift venues so you can ride up faster than on a normal bike).
This is the biggest issue with ebikes. It allows people who wouldn’t put the effort in to ride in general or couldn’t ride at that speed to do so. The second issue is with their proliferation it make mtbing more exclusive in a financial sense which is the wrong way to exclude people.
The problem with e-bikes is that they empower people to go riding whilst preventing people from going riding, because there are simultaneously too many of them about and not enough? 😁
We could say the same of full-sus bikes, or bikes with gears even. They allow us to tackle terrain we wouldn't otherwise be able to experience, but all that comes at a price premium. How many people on this thread with their noses in the air would pay more for a fork than some people might pay for a car? Do we think people shouldn't be riding black routes or equivalent unless they're on a BSO?
It's gatekeeping. This thing that I enjoy, well, you can't, unless I deem you worthy. Otherwise you're not a real [cyclist | mountain-biker | gamer | Star Trek fan | My Little Pony collector].
Someone wants to get to the top of a hill so badly that they're willing to spend several grand on a bicycle, have they not earned that right mentally just as much as someone blowing it out of their arse on a BSO has done physically?
Arguably that boat has already sealed
Probably for the best, it'd sink otherwise.
I'm guessing the report suggests they aren't as in tune with the outdoors...but I'd argue that to be the case for a wide range of people using the outdoors now, not just a category of biker (and there are plenty of bike riders not as in tune either).
^
I think early ATBs were criticized for getting people into the hills who wouldn't have hiked there otherwise, people who didn't have the hill sense etc.
I saw a few weeks ago that they’ve trashed half of the borrowdale Bash already. Why? ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn’t be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn’t be ridden (and a normal bike would either push, carry or go elsewhere so not cut the enormous ruts).
Have you got any links or pics to this damage?? Struggling to understand how ebikes (with 500 watt motors) have created so much damage unless you're talking about electric motorbikes (5000+ watts for Surrons etc). How are they cutting enormous ruts??
I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes
Me too.
We get quite a few groups of them on regular bikes on my local trails during the summer.
I ride at less busy times and on lesser used trails during the tourist season to avoid them.
Seems a better solution than bitching about what type of bike they're riding on here.
It’s gatekeeping. This thing that I enjoy, well, you can’t, unless I deem you worthy.
That's a fair point.
I used to think that anything which encouraged more people to enjoy the outdoors had to be a good thing. More people gaining an appreciation for the things I enjoy is probably going to help me too. Now I'm not so sure. But how much of that is just gatekeeping? I'm not sure.
One issue is that I'm becoming increasingly aware that these eMTB rides don't appreciate what I appreciate. But that probably is gatekeeping and in general I don't really mind what other people enjoy. Occasionally I'll see someone on a motorbike out on the trails. Despite that being illegal, it doesn't really bother me and I'll usually give them a cheery wave. The noise is a temporary inconvenience, but there aren't enough of them for it (or the damage) to be a real issue and anybody who is annoyed at them isn't going to be annoyed at me. But that doesn't seem to be the case with eMTBs. There are quite a few, the effect on the trails is becoming noticeable and other trail users who are annoyed by that will just be annoyed at MTBs in general, which could end up impacting my much cherished access rights.
Struggling to understand how ebikes (with 500 watt motors) have created so much damage unless you’re talking about electric motorbikes (5000+ watts for Surrons etc). How are they cutting enormous ruts
weight and trail conditions. ebikes in very soft ground will make a mess. the spikeyer the tyre the more mess. with a normal bike you`d be walking or going somewhere else.
It’s gatekeeping.
Is that a problem? To expect a minimum level of knowledge in order to progress?
You don't turn up to 10' drop without doing smaller drops first. Same principle. If you enter via the ebike route you are bypassing a path of learning. You are buying your ticket in with no idea. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant but you can't jump to the same position but ebikes can give people the feeling that they can jump ahead.
I used to think that anything which encouraged more people to enjoy the outdoors had to be a good thing. More people gaining an appreciation for the things I enjoy is probably going to help me too. Now I’m not so sure. But how much of that is just gatekeeping? I’m not sure.
I guess the sticking point for me is the attitude of "you're enjoying something that I've been enjoying for a while, but you're enjoying it in a slightly different manner so are clearly the antichrist" rather than being happy that more people are sharing your interests.
I understand of course that as soon as the lowest common denominators get involved things can go sideways, shitheads ruining beauty spots under the guise of 'wild camping' and so forth. But is that what's happening here? I don't know either TBH.
weight and trail conditions. ebikes in very soft ground will make a mess. the spikeyer the tyre the more mess. with a normal bike you`d be walking or going somewhere else.
Walkers have been making that self-same argument about cyclists for decades. "Cheeky trails," anyone?
Is that a problem? To expect a minimum level of knowledge in order to progress?
I don't see how e-bikes change that vs regular bikes, or hardtails vs full suspension - 'skill-compensators' and all that guff.
If you want rules about how/what/when to progress join a road racing league and get your UCI-stickered bike, or go trad climbing where you'll either learn well or get properly hurt. MTB is simple, easy.
If you enter via the ebike route you are bypassing a path of learning.
"my arms and legs are all the suspension I need" etc.
You're bypassing a bit of fitness, that's all? That's no bad thing for many people - take it or leave it, gain it or not.
Is that a problem? To expect a minimum level of knowledge in order to progress?
Who is defining this knowledge? What's your "minimum level"? They can't play because they don't know as much as you so it's not fair?
You don’t turn up to 10′ drop without doing smaller drops first. Same principle. If you enter via the ebike route you are bypassing a path of learning. You are buying your ticket in with no idea.
... so what? This affects you how?
I don't need a decade's experience of pumping a Raleigh Grifter up Bow Fell to realise that a ten foot bomb hole might be a bit challenging.
There is nothing wrong with being ignorant but you can’t jump to the same position but ebikes can give people the feeling that they can jump ahead.
Well again, so what? Your primary objection to ebikes is that the presumed inexperienced riders might hurt themselves on a black route? I don't think I believe that.
Has anyone ever stopped you from doing something daft on a bike? From riding beyond your ability? Not since puberty, I'd wager.
If you're supposing to dictate to others what they can and can't do for little other reason than because they're slightly different from you then yes, that may a problem. Who are you to be policing other people's fun?
Yeah, I've no problem with the gatekeeping thing. It was the very first thing I pointed out when I'd heard of ebikes - that idiots are going to end up places they've no place being.
For people who don't think this is a problem tell that to the walkers who are getting mighty effed off at idiots with no idea flying down the Ranger path on Snowdon, not only abusing the agreement (which can be withdrawn), but endangering people.
Without ebikes they'd be sat at home, being fat, in front of their xboxes. And that's where they should be.
Earning your stripes has an awful lot of merit. You start off slow, it takes ages, only people with a certain type of mindset ever make it - because it used to be hard.
But that horse has bolted, unfortunately.
Oi. It's a Playstation!
For people who don’t think this is a problem tell that to the walkers who are getting mighty effed off at idiots with no idea flying down the Ranger path on Snowdon, not only abusing the agreement (which can be withdrawn), but endangering people.
If more people are riding Snowdon with less skill and experience then you'd expect there to be a significant increase in mountain rescue and air ambulance activity up there to attend to damaged riders? I haven't heard that this is happening.
It was the very first thing I pointed out when I’d heard of ebikes – that idiots are going to end up places they’ve no place being.
The walkers said that about ATBs in about 1986.
For people who don’t think this is a problem tell that to the walkers who are getting mighty effed off at idiots with no idea flying down the Ranger path on Snowdon, not only abusing the agreement (which can be withdrawn), but endangering people.
Heard this about MTBs in about 2006.
This is a completely pointless argument.
People ride the bike they want to and anything short of a rigid single speed compensates for skill or fitness to some extent. I have met some very polite ebikers and two absolute knobs who rode into me on a climb. I have also met nice bike riders and some absolute knobs.
I don't think the type of bike you ride make any difference, people need some politenes tolerance.
And I'm sorry, but this hits a nerve because it's rife in fandom and it's toxic AF. Geeks are largely welcoming and inclusive but there's always someone who has to be a gatekeeping asshole.
I have a friend whose daughter is hugely into Doctor Who. The kid is, I dunno, "a few" years old? I'm not great with kids' ages, sorry. They collect, well, everything, their house has more "collectables" than your average Forbidden Planet. She damn near exploded when Whittaker was revealed, she was obsessed, finally she has "her Doctor." Her not-mum (long story) made the outfit, they tracked down 13's sonic screwdriver - it had to be the official one and not a knock off - she's all about the 13th. And I've seen a grown-ass adult tell her that a girl can't be the Doctor and she can't be a fan because the show started before she was born.
I mean...
I don't know how often I have to say this. So long as they're not harming anyone else, why can't we just let people enjoy things. Hell, you might find that you have more in common than you think, maybe you could pass on your knowledge and experience? (The plot twist to the above is the kid's knowledge is encyclopedic, I'd bet good money that she knew more about the show than he did.)
Without ebikes they’d be sat at home, being fat, in front of their xboxes. And that’s where they should be.
Yeah, **** the fatties, right? It's their own fault. They've no business trying to do something about it, they'll all be dead soon anyway and good riddance.
My ex was overweight, and was a far better MTBer than I'll ever be. The jeers she got from randoms were a regular occurrence, "look at that fat bitch, what's she doing on a bike?"
A few weeks back (this is true) I nearly got run into by someone who lost control of a mobility scooter. They fumbled the throttle and I had to leap out of the way. Conclusion: remove all the wheelchair ramps, then they'll be sat at home where they should be?
Heard this about MTBs in about 2006.
Heard this about MTBs in about 2023. 😁
^^^er, dr who?
Anyway, as the thread's still going, ebikes mean:
- more people ride, (good, for them)
- people ride more, (good, for them)
- more people ride more on the Moor, a finite resource in terms of trashed trails and walker tolerance,
On the latter point, I ride on the moor more than most so am in absolutely no position to criticise but please allow some ambivalence. I'm yet to tut or spoil anyone's fun.
I think most people agree there should be limits on what can be allowed to access the great outdoors without restriction.
I don't see many people arguing that you should be allowed to take a 400cc moto-X bike on the local trails. Same with 3kW electric motorbikes.
Clearly there is a line, we're just arguing about where that line should be.
^^^er, dr who?
analogy /əˈnalədʒi/ (noun)
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
There's a comment up there re Cannock Chase which resonates with me. ---^
I've ridden the Chase for years (When did FtD "open"?) and for the last 6 years or so as a local.
I've experienced nobbery from people on Amish bikes but, sweet Jesus Christ, the behaviour of Ebikers has risen to epic levels of entitled, nasty bellendery.
The most disheartening behaviour is simply "pushing past" anyone they catch up - no verbals, no waiting (and let's be honest, on the Dog the sections are quite short).
Seeing yet another less confident rider "buzzed" by an ebike is bloody disheartening.
It isn't about "gatekeeping" and, as much it's a cheap trope, it does seem to be fat biffers, dropper post lowered, motor whining as it hefts them along in the smallest cog. Cash rich, time poor, manners missing.
Chats and stories exchanged with riders of all types of bikes, so it's not simply the propulsion method.
I think etiquette boards at the trail head might help - for all cycling users.
Based on my personal experience I view ebikes as cocaine on wheels. Great fun but not suitable for my addiction susceptible personality.
And also like cocaine I don't need those who partake to tell me every twenty minutes how good it feels.
Based on my personal experience I view ebikes as cocaine on wheels. Great fun but not suitable for my addiction susceptible personality.
first time I swung a leg over one was very much the scene in trainspotting where Tommy tries heroin and his mates shake their heads in worry because he's liking it too much*. I gave a little push on the pedal and my legs were transformed in to steel pistons as the bike leapt uphill... (My legs are not steel pistons.)
*An apt analogy.
first time I swung a leg over one was very much the scene in trainspotting where Tommy tries heroin and his mates shake their heads in worry because he’s liking it too much*. I gave a little push on the pedal and my legs were transformed in to steel pistons as the bike leapt uphill… (My legs are not steel pistons.)
I refused to ride an ebike until I was ready to buy one because I knew that as soon as I rode one that would be it, I would have to get one.
100% @BaronVonP7
It isn’t about “gatekeeping” and, as much it’s a cheap trope, it does seem to be fat biffers, dropper post lowered, motor whining as it hefts them along in the smallest cog. Cash rich, time poor, manners missing.
These people wouldn't be there if it wasn't for ebikes.
Yes, everyone could do with more manners all-around. But that's just wishing for human nature to change. And the fact is - without these electric motors then this level of arse-ness wouldn't be happening - because a sizeable chunk of these owners just straight-up would not sweat their backsides off to do the sport.
Make it a practically zero-effort sport (and yes, I've ridden them, in comparison it pretty much is) then this is the result.
But we're going off topic. - I clearly hate the things. I don't ride in mixed groups. But I don't express my hatred out on the trail - they sail on past, and that's fine. Only time there's argy-bargy is when an idiot does an idiot thing - and unfortunately that's happening more often now idiots who would never be there, now are.
These people wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t for ebikes.
Aaand that's the great division right there, isn't it.
1) "These people wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t for ebikes" - so aren't e-bikes brilliant, empowering people to get out and ride who wouldn't otherwise be able to do so!
2) "These people wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t for ebikes" - so aren't e-bikes shit, encouraging the great unwashed to come over here polluting our trails and ruining it for everyone!
Jeepers 10 pages!
Yeah, but without the battery assist it'd only have been three.
Well again, so what? Your primary objection to ebikes is that the presumed inexperienced riders might hurt themselves on a black route? I don’t think I believe that
No, you miss understand, I am not explaining myself correctly. I think you are taking my examples as specifics and not as points of a concept.
The objection is it short cuts the rider to be able to ride in a certain manor with out the learning curve. Due to this you get increased conflict and mistakes made at a higher speed with more momentum. It's the increased damage and danger to others. I don't care about people hurting themselves.
It's like the teenager that's a bit enthusiastic makes a mistake is unintentionally rude with their mates. It happens. Ebikes are not bad that's not why I am saying. They do however allow many more inexperienced people to be either unintentionally (or maybe intentionally) rude or damage things, the difference is a significant number groups of middle-age men in these situations are entitled. A bad bit of ebikes is that a lot of these guys would not be there is it was not for ebikes. It's an enabler for them into the past time. I hope that is a little clearer. It's quite hard to explain.
Nope @cougar. That's clearly a massive oversimplification and misrepresentation of all that's been discussed.
But if that's what you need to tell yourself, crack on.
I rode down Jacobs Ladder in '98 on a HT with 80mm forks, when all I'd ridden was the local woods.
I rode Fort Bill black (slowly) when all I'd ridden previously were bits of the Peak
Rode all the Black's at BPW when I'd never ridden a bike park before. Didn't ride them quick, but rode them
If something scares me, I'll generally stop and look and have to work up the courage. There's a rooty drop in the local woods that it took me a year to get the courage to ride in the '90's. Wouldn't even consider it a feature these days
My worst ever crash was in the local woods on a section of trail I'd ridden a dozen times, with no dangerous features, just a tiny slippy rock that I placed my front wheel on chasing a Kom and hit the deck with concussion and a broken jaw.
Point being, when you're learning you tend to tackle things with caution. Risks come into play when you have some confidence in what you're doing.
Adults on ebikes are still capable of evaluating risk even if they are going somewhere they wouldn't normally go. Manners are a different matter
Judging whether someone should be somewhere or not because they have never done it before and a motor is enabling them is inverse snobbery (is that the right term?) imo
All this shouldn't be there attitude stinks.
When I started MTBing back in the mid 80's there were a group of us that had all grown up racing MX/Enduros.
One of our group had the same shit attitude to anyone we met on a bike if they'd not come from the same racing backgroud as the rest of us. They shouldn't be here/they don't know how to ride/ they've just tried to buy their way in with an expensive bike that kind of stuff.
It was quite unpleasant to watch the way he spoke to some people and he soon found he had less and less people to ride with as we all slowly got fed up of the shit attitude and stopped riding with him.
Some of us have been into this shit from the start and are still welcoming to everyone no matter what bike they happen to be on, so don't come the not experienced enough or worked your way up attitude. It stinks.
This thread has really drawn out the crazy, angry people.
"They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for ebikes" !!! Just be glad they are on ebikes and not SurRons (sp) then.
And, hey, who knows... One day these riders who "shouldn't be there" might even "progress" to a "proper" bike!!!
Madness.
Jeepers 10 pages!
Was just thinking that myself.
It could have been summed up rather quickly
Q. Ebikes etc etc,hateful people etc etc
A. Assholes.
End of thread.
Well, I’ve learned from this thread that your skills as a rider are purely down to how hard you’ve been pedalling for how long.
Somebody had better warn all those teenage shredders on DH bikes sending 50ft gaps.
I've met the very occasional dickish rider over the years, some on normal mtb, some on emtb so I don't mind what people ride.
The only thing what would upset me was if normal mtb's died a death entirely so only emtb was left but I hope and think that will never happen.
/blockquote>
^^And that ladies and gentleman, is the sort fat chav that the ebikes have brought to the "sport" ...FFS.
There's a lot of Real Riders™ breaking rule one on this thread and coming across as exactly the sort of people they claim ride eebs.
Humour this dumbass please, what does the extra "e" stand for on eemtb streams for?
Yeah, I have been under a rock.😁
Enjoyable/Exciting/Excruciating Electric Bicycle. Or nothing at all. Take your pick.
Cougar
Full Member
Yeah, but without the battery assist it’d only have been three
But you got the same workout 😉
If you get the same workout, why do all the ebikers wear trousers and jackets when I'm on my peasant bike sweating my knackers off in a pair of shorts and a t shirt?
Maybe I'm the one that's not very fit 🤔
If you get the same workout, why do all the ebikers wear trousers and jackets when I’m on my peasant bike sweating my knackers off in a pair of shorts and a t shirt?
Maybe I’m the one that’s not very fit
You can get whatever workout you want on a 50lb bike with assistance adjustable from 0-100% of whatever power is on offer. I'll generally make sure I push myself a bit without destroying myself. Not as much as standard bike, but I could if I wanted
Taken with a pinch of salt as watch based, but my heart rate last Saturday
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doomanic
Full Member
Enjoyable/Exciting/Excruciating Electric Bicycle. Or nothing at all. Take your pick.
Lol, I see. I really thought the extra "e" was for some technical reason I didn't know about.
Im not too sure about this fitness argument 😕
I mean you want to get fit on a bike, you either buy an exercise cycle, set it up in the spare room and pedal away across the seasons. Or buy a road bike, join a club and go riding and training in a group.
MTB is more about learning a skill than gaining fitness, though the fitness part happens its not the reason you are doing it. Post ride Beers, too many cakes and perhaps ciggies or a spliff or two.
Its a social thing more than anything else.
Ebikes are pretty much the same thing if you look at it logically. Getting out in the fresh air, riding to enjoy the outdoors and learning how not to fall off, being with others of similar interests.
Fitness ? naw, thats for them sad old roadies*.
No offence to roadies, old or otherwise 😆