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^^^ he didn't say that, did he? You added the "were able to buy their own".
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
people have been cutting corners before ebikes + strava were even invented.
Since Herbold at the WC DH in 1990, allegedly.
When asked in an interview with Spoke Magazine in 2012 if he had in fact cut the course in 1990, Herbold replied; "Not according to the UCI, and that's what matters."
HBcutthecoursein1990.com was a great site. RIP.
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<div class="bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap"><span class="bbp-author-name">jameso</span></div>
<div class="bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">I’d 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider?</span></div>
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What a ridiculous thing to say
It is and it’s about as far into trolling as I’d go. It was tounge in cheek or a dig at the ‘real riders’ BS you get from occasional trad bike / neeb riders.
For me there is a huge difference but weird relationship between real bikes and real riders but there are 2 reasons for me to refer to real bikes as real bikes and eMTB as something else.
Obviously an eMTB isn't a real bike as evidenced from the fact it has a motor. It's about as much a REAL bike as a Vespa or track racing is a real MX/Enduro (lets just say Dirt Bike) bike.
That has no bearing as to if the eMTB is being ridden by a real (MTB) rider... (any more than if Bernard Kerr ceases to be a Real MTB Rider when he rides MX/Supercross etc. or even if he decided he was going to do track IOM TT etc) or even is Guy Martin/Barry sheen not a "real rider"... (I have not exhausted my knowledge of motorbikes)
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MTB like "dirtbikes" has a broad church of disciplines. (DJ/XC/Trail/Enduro/DH)
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The second reason is the inordinate amount of eMTB riders who use disparaging terms to refer to real bikes and their riders and are of an opinion everyone wants and should ride an eMTB exclusively unless they are just to poor to bother speaking to.
This same group making the disparaging remarks also seem to be those who tend not to know when they need to STFU and they make the Jehovah Witnesses and scientologists/TV licensing look positively self aware of what "no thank you goodbye" means.
I've had multiple encounters with eMTBers both riding my eMTB or one of my real bikes.
When on a real bike I've had a few who seem determined to tell me I should be riding an eMTB and can't take "no thanks" or "I have one in the van I was riding it this morning" as a hint I don't want to talk to them about why I SHOULD be riding an eBike.
Typically
"You should get an eMTB"
Response: "I have one thank you "
Q "Why aren't you riding it"
A "I am choosing not to/I was riding it earlier/I'm riding with friends on real bikes today"
Q: "Do you think you won't get as good a workout on an eMTB" / "Is the battery flat" / you can get them on finance
A: "I don't care I just don't want to discuss it with you thank you"
Continues gradually more Spanish inquisition / Evangelist
"What eMTB have you got?" "You should get a XXX"
A: "As I said I don't want to talk to you, can you please stop hassling me"
I've never had anything like this from any other type of MTB riders/owners. The closest might be "mate you are going to snap that frame" or that sort of genuine concern (I do enjoy riding inappropriate bikes sometimes) not you should buy a XXX bike.
On the other side when riding the eTMB I often get other eMTBers making disparaging comments about people on "real bikes" (assuming I don't ride real bikes as well). This is often uncomfortable in the same way some old "Gentlemans Club" making disparaging comments about women would be. (The whole I'm a bloke so I should go along with it thing) or even the "What (football) team do you support" type "you're a bloke so you must follow football unless you are ..."
I don't remember any "real bike" rider ever making disparaging comments about me riding a eMTB to my face. I'm sure a few have said something to their mates or whatever but I don't really care about that.
To extend that analogy .. I'm a bit sick of the whole "paupers/peasants/dinosaurs" thing... and either having to defend why I'm not riding an eMTB right now or why I don't exclusively ride eMTB.... so I prefer to use the term "real bikes" and I feel anyone takes offense at the term real bikes is likely in the small minority of eMTB riders I really don't care if I offend.
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You need to learn to say "goodbye!" with a cheery wave rather than engaging with hostile idiots.
(You should do that on the bike, as well. 😁)
My experience was completely different OP.
I have ridden an MTB since 1987 and have ridden with the people I ride with since the mid-Nineties and some from 2014 onwards. All of them without fail are supportive and encouraged me to continue riding.
Since my subarachnoid haemorrhage in July, when I have ridden trail centres - have only ridden red trails at maximum and although this changes the nature of some rides as I avoid black routes/options now.
I can’t wish for more supportive friends in general and riding mates in particular - but riding an e-bike has kept me cycling since heart failure, stroke and haemorrhage has impacted me.
A few years ago I had abuse aimed at me and my eMTB by "Real Riders" but it seems to be a thing of the past now. I get asked for a tow or a push occasionally and will sometimes chuck out a self-depreciating remark when passing a group on a fire road climb "'Scuse me lads, milk float coming through" or similar. I've never heard a conversation of the like that Stevextc is describing and if one of my riding buddies came out with it they'd rightly be abused for it. I really can't fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
every time i attempt read one of his essays, this springs to mind:
Didn’t Happen of the Year Awards (@_DHOTYA) / Twitter
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
Maybe they all group together. 😂
I just skip over anything he posts TBH.
I've not got time in my life* to read that longwinded crap he waffles on about.
* I'm retired and have all the time in the world for doing other stuff.
Real bike and real riders 😀
I have to say that as someone who has been riding off-road on a mountain bike for 36 years - if anyone doesn’t think I am a real rider, they can seriously do one.
I love what this activity/sport has done for me and it was hard enough to realise that an eMTB was the way forward for me. Getting out with my riding mates - including my brother and more lately my son among them - it means more to me than it even did before.
If anyone else has an opinion on me riding using an eMTB they can get stuffed. Best to not articulate it where I witness it as one of the things my subarachnoid haemorrhage has done is shorten my fuse - so some verbal abuse would make it’s own way back.
I think it’s great that you’ve found a way to continue riding after a life altering event. I’m my personal opinion you’re exactly the type of person that should have an eBike. It’s enabled you to carry on doing something you clearly love to do.
I exist and I ride, therefore I am a real rider.
My e-bike exists as a 2-wheeled pedal cycle .. therefore it is a real bike.
This is possibly a real low point in my online posting history.
I mainly ride my ebike in the UK but mainly ride my DH bike in Austria. I’m now totally confused as to whether I’m a real rider or not?
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
One day, if he's lucky, he might think 'oh. Maybe its me' if he can get over his belligerence to find some self-awareness.
This has been a very strange thread from the beginning and has become even stanger!
It's as if it's groups of 13 year olds bickering but it can't be as they mention owning cars, vans and £5000 ebikes!
Do people actually speak to each other like this when riding a bike around the woods?
This has been a very strange thread from the beginning and has become even stranger!
It's odd what goes on inside people's heads, but isn't usually vocalised. I suspect on the trail, most of this stuff happens in thought bubbles rather than aloud, which is probably just as well...
First 2 pages of this months magazine were advertising Ebikes, with Danny Macaskill being shown to love his. And articles throughout also advertising them. First pages are prime real estate.
Makes me wonder what full members think when their copy drops through the door. Do they read the whole thing, or skip those stories and pout at them instead.
I'm not bias, I even read the stories about all things roadie.
I don't notice adverts in magazines so if I was getting the paper version I wouldn't have noticed them...bike manufacturers are pushing ebikes as they are the next big thing, so there will be plenty of advertising going on. They do allow people who wouldn't bike to get into biking and they are another nice toy for those already biking to buy.
(I've one bike and I'm not looking to buy anything new for quite some time, so advertising is wasted on me...I'm also of the opinion that you ride what you want, so it makes no odds to me if you are on a bike or an ebike - I'm not going to keep up with you on my bike anyway, so just enjoy the ride!)
I'm completely lost on most of this page of this thread as well...we seem to have gone from listening to chat about people's opinions about people's opinions on ebikes to now about something in someone's head...a bit like Tarantino's Dusk to Dawn - all fine until that scene then it all goes very odd!
I'm just in from an afternoons riding with my mate on his ebike. I'm normally (badly) aspirated.
He's really been ill and presently going through intense chemotherapy. So he's got an ebike as its enabled him to keep riding on days when he feels up to it. I can't tell you how much its doing for his mental health and positivity through this really difficult time in his life.
He's very aware and considerate of the fact that I'm blowing out of my arse on the climbs.
All that matter to me about e-bikes at the moment is that its made it possible for me to carry on riding in the hills with my mate. We've had a great afternoons riding in the sunshine, under blue skies
I just thought I'd share that bit of positivity with you 😀
Makes me wonder what full members think when their copy drops through the door. Do they read the whole thing, or skip those stories and pout at them instead.
You called 🙂
I used to post in the Bike forum quite regularly. I haven't done so for ages and the reason is basically the rise of eMTB threads. I don't really have anything against those who ride them. I'm very much an "each to their own" person and I'd certainly never say anything negative to anyone riding one. But, for me, they basically represent the antithesis of mountain biking and the fact that they have proved so popular made me realise that I have very little in common with what I used to think of as my fellow mountain biker. In fact, these days, the MTB often stays in the shed and I'll reach for the trail running shoes instead. I'm sure eMTBs are a big part of that decision too.
When it comes to the mag, I do notice the adverts and I'll often open the mag, read the first couple of pages, then chuck it on the pile with the other unread editions. I'll probably downgrade my subscription to a digital-only one when the time comes and again that's mostly because of eMTBs.
To the person who said that we'd all be riding one in the end; I understand what you are saying and maybe one day I will appreciate the fact that they exist. But I suspect not. If I reach the point where I'm no longer physically able to ride my mountain bike I'll probably just hike instead. The fact that it is human powered has always been a key component of my enjoyment of interacting with nature.
Hiking does seem a logical progression for flintstone bike riders who don't want an eeb.
They seem to spend a lot of 'ride' time pushing a bike uphill.
Hiking does seem a logical progression for flintstone bike riders who don’t want an eeb.
Ive heard uplift days with chairlifts and trucks, especially in the mountains make ebikes redundant and a lot more fun on the downhill. Plus we don't have motor, battery and obsolesence issues like ebikes have.
And less environmental issues too...
You need to learn to say “goodbye!” with a cheery wave rather than engaging with hostile idiots.
Funnily enough IRL I'm known to be sickeningly polite ... a bit of a laugh when someone is hostile you wish a cheery "well enjoy the rest of your ... " and you can see they want to be continue to be rude but they just wobble their jaw because they are just going to look more stupid/hostile...
BUT the thing is these idiots aren't trying to be hostile any more than jehovas witnesses are (we may view it as hostile, they are just being evangelical and trying to save us from something they believe we don't)
I was invited on a group ride on Wednesday morning with a group of guys I’d never met before. I was a bit hesitant, but it’s always nice to meet new people so I gave it a shot.
It was suppposed to be a 5.30am sharp start, so I got there at 5.20 so I wasn’t the new guy holding everyone up. At 5.40, eight riders set off in all. A couple of teenagers and more than a couple old enough to be their Dads.
The ride was at a place I know like the back of my hand. Tough, natural singletrack. First climb seemed fairly slow pace, then I proceeded to have a huge stack on a track that according to Strava I had ridden 118 times before. Straightened my bars, dusted myself down and apologised for holding everyone up. Proceeded to the base of a DH track and a guy I’d never met before took my bike off me and set about my bent derailleur’s limit screws to ensure I didn’t wreck it and could get some usable gears for the rest of the ride. I excused myself from the dh and videoed the step down and tabletop into shark fin.
At the top of the next climb I noticed one of the guys was on an ebike.
Someone commented I was on a hardtail.
We rode for another hour or so. Talked shit. Went to work/school. I rode about half the distance I’d normally ride.
Great morning… even if I did total my helmet and graze most of my limbs..
I think that’s the way mtb should be. Technology was irrelevant.
One day, if he’s lucky, he might think ‘oh. Maybe its me’ if he can get over his belligerence to find some self-awareness.
Nope, clearly not.
I exist and I ride, therefore I am a real rider.
My e-bike exists as a 2-wheeled pedal cycle .. therefore it is a real bike.
Its a non sequitur ... depending on what you want to define as a real bike. (alternative names are available I'm happy with any terms that are not derogatory to non electrically assisted bikes or their riders. What bike you ride has no bearing on if you are a "real rider"... riding (whatever you like) does...
You ride therefore you are a real rider.. unlike someone who has a garage full of bikes and hasn't ridden any of them in months or years and is a "real bike collector".
N-EEB is about the least derogatory term I see used but even that seems to try and switch the reality as if a non powered bike needs qualifying or is some sort of legacy. I have a Kindle for example .. I still refer to my paper books as "real books" (even though I read FAR more on my Kindle than I do real paper nowadays).. that doesn't make me a not real reader.
Its a non sequitur …
It was poor shit-posting from me that's all. 'I exist therefore I am'. The whole 'real rider / real bike' thing is impossible to take seriously, please don't : )
I have no more to add on this one : )
I used to post in the Bike forum quite regularly. I haven’t done so for ages and the reason is basically the rise of eMTB threads. I don’t really have anything against those who ride them. I’m very much an “each to their own” person and I’d certainly never say anything negative to anyone riding one. But, for me, they basically represent the antithesis of mountain biking
"I'm not racist, but..."? 😁
This entire conversation is getting weirder by the minute. Unless you're in competition, why should anyone care what someone else is riding? It just feels... I dunno, infantile, like abusing the kid at school who got a BBC when everyone else had C64s or Spectrums. Who are any of us to proscribe arbitrary rules as to how someone else chooses to enjoy their life? As soon as you out yourself as being slightly different from the established norm, people are elbowing each other out of the way in their haste to tell you how wrong you are. Eg, mention you're vegetarian and count how many people immediately pile in to squeal about teeth and depth perception and with no concept of irony "preachy vegans". Or look at the outrage over legalising same-sex marriage, anyone would have thought it was about to be made mandatory. Christ, you can't be a 'real' fan of Batman unless you own all the comics.
It's Othering, it's toxic and frankly it's weird. What exactly are we gatekeeping here? Why? These things that other people do in a slightly differently manner from you, this affects you how exactly?
Funky posted earlier, "I’m my personal opinion you’re exactly the type of person that should have an eBike." Which is great and all but, why isn't the type of person who should have an eBike simply "someone who wants an eBike"?
These things that other people do in a slightly differently manner from you, this affects you how exactly?
I obviously didn't explain myself very well. It doesn't affect me at all. I treat somebody on an eMTB in the same way as I would someone on, say, a horse. I am quite happy that they are out enjoying themselves and would always wish them well. I just don't feel that we are taking part in the same activity and we probably have very little in common.
I just don’t feel that we are taking part in the same activity
Agreed but it is still very similar, its not that far apart is it?
and we probably have very little in common.
Thats quite a leap, both of you may have St Etienne's Foxbase Alpha on vinyl and enjoy the collected works of Dan Brown.
I just don’t feel that we are taking part in the same activity and we probably have very little in common.
Maybe that's the difference? If I were to go out for a ride with friends then the crux of this sentence would be the "with friends" bit.
I just don’t feel that we are taking part in the same activity and we probably have very little in common.
To be brutal, quite often people we ride with aren't really 'friends', what we have in common is that we ride bikes. Sure, sometimes riding buddies become real friends, but ask yourself if you invite your riding mates round for dinner. Go pubbing with them. Spend much times in their company that's not based on bikes and biking. Do you know their families? Or if they even have one? There's a fair chance you have very little in common with lots of people who ride bikes with or without electric assistance.
I once went to a wedding of a riding buddy from a close-knit local group, mostly we barely recognised each other without baggy shorts and helmets. It was nice, but actually quite weird. Or another time when a riding mate turned up driving a Ferrari, and we were like, what, seriously, you own a Ferrari as well as a ratty old Cannondale?
What I'm saying is that the idea that riding mountain bikes means you have much in common with anyone is a bit of a fallacy. What you have in common is riding mountain bikes. I guess that means if you decide arbitrarily that emtbs are not 'proper bikes' then you don't have anything in common with people who ride them. But then what, apart from the obvious, do you have in common with anyone who rides a mountain bike other than the obvious?
Such a weird thread.
That's an interesting point. And one that I don't recognise at all. The people I ride with are friends first and foremost. (Those with long memories will perhaps remember my dalliance with STW group riding; it didn't end well!)
So, yes, I guess if the only thing you have in common with someone else is that you both have bikes, then one day they turn up on say a full sus instead of a singlespeed, or an eBike, or a horse, then it might be a bit awkward. But, well... I don't know, maybe I'm the outlier here, but in that scenario I think I'd rather just be riding on my own.
ask yourself if you invite your riding mates round for dinner. Go pubbing with them. Spend much times in their company that’s not based on bikes and biking. Do you know their families? Or if they even have one? There’s a fair chance you have very little in common with lots of people who ride bikes with or without electric assistance.
All my riding mates were mates before we started riding together. We've been to each others weddings and stag do's, we go out for boozy nights out, even with our wives and GF's. We all go away for a lads weekend without bikes each year joined by another 2 or 3 blokes that don't ride bikes. If any of them got an ebike we'd still ride together.
It's kind of interesting to consider what is the 'antithesis' of (what you personally get from) biking.
For me, it would be trail centres. All those people. And cars. And man-made jumps and stuff. It's probably fine if you like that sort of thing. But it doesn't do anything for me.
I can see a certain tension between 'hitting the great outdoors' and 'motor-powered transport', but I guess my perspective has shifted, since over the last 3 years I've not been physically capable of riding a leg bike, so for me it's ebike or nothing. And the ebike is an awful lot better than nothing!
You need to learn to say “goodbye!” with a cheery wave rather than engaging with hostile idiots.
Waves.
Only kidding 😆 😛
Perspective.
I made the mistake of looking at the online comments to an online editorial by the local rag, written by a cyclist. It details the abuse he gets on his rides from some car drivers.
Broke my own rule and looked at the comments. I just despair at the genuine hate on display. How can you get that wound up by people on a bike?
Enjoy your bike and riding it, whatever it is.👍
I have no more to add on this one : )
Yes it seems like your opinion was calling non-electrically-assisted-MTB's "real bikes" was some sort of way of saying you aren't a real rider?
It was poor shit-posting from me that’s all.
It seemed more like putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 ??? (One reason I often do longer posts as i don't want misinterpreting)
With all the undercurrent dislike of e-bikes I find myself feeling I have to apologise for needing to use one now and generally being unwelcome to take part in many of the events and social rides I once enjoyed
Weirdly, I've found this is a common theme, ebikers apologising for riding ebikes? Just last weekend I was at Dalby on my own having a great time. Fella on an ebike caught me up on a bit of a classic Dalby flat section with zero flow so I pulled over to let him past and he murmured some kind of apology about being on an ebike as he went past. Very odd I thought...
58, some health issues. Still on an 'Amish bike', but deffo ebike curious. No hate in either direction from me.
(One reason I often do longer posts as i don’t want misinterpreting)
I don't think that's working out quite the way you intend. Putting your point across succinctly is nearly always more effective than a waffly word salad. Most people's eyes glaze over at lengthy posts. I did an effective communication course a long time ago. Whilst I was probably bottom of the class, the phrase from it which has always stuck with me, is "clarity, brevity, accuracy". Although many who've read my contributions on here may doubt I've taken that on board!
Funky posted earlier, “I’m my personal opinion you’re exactly the type of person that should have an eBike.” Which is great and all but, why isn’t the type of person who should have an eBike simply “someone who wants an eBike”?
For me it’s adding to ****ing over the environment to a greater degree than a normal bike. Batteries aren’t great and disposal of them isn’t either. Why cause or add to environmental issues? Opinions are like arseholes etc 😀
why can’t I work the quote function anymore?
I honestly have nothing against eBikes or those that ride them. I just think that if you’re fit and healthy then you’re making a choice to cause greater environmental damage. A lot of folk will probably now get very pouty about it but it’s just one guys opinion.
Runs off in his eshoes - Like amish shoes but betterer
"I treat somebody on an eMTB in the same way as I would someone on, say, a horse. I am quite happy that they are out enjoying themselves and would always wish them well. I just don’t feel that we are taking part in the same activity and we probably have very little in common."
I know I'm in the minority doing this but it comes from finding having more than two mountain bikes quite annoying - so I have a full-sus which happens to have a motor that I frequently turn off, and I have a hardtail that for the last year has been a singlespeed. I recall you ride a full-sus with gears. Would you like to associate with the electric full-sus with gears that sometimes is a 50lb unassisted bike yet sometimes triples my own power? Or would you like to associate with the bike with no rear suspension and no gears? Or do they both make you want to go trail running instead?
I ride in mixed groups of all sorts of bikes, rigid, hardtail, full-sus, fat, every wheel size, singlespeed, geared, electric, etc. Not noticed any hatred. But we're in an unusually open-minded part of the country.
It’s Othering, it’s toxic and frankly it’s weird. What exactly are we gatekeeping here? Why? These things that other people do in a slightly differently manner from you, this affects you how exactly?
Of all the posts to pick, you've gone with the post that's displaying the least of all these things!
The difference money makes to bikes used to be less obvious. Most of the guys I rode with, they weren't friends I knew before I started riding with their group, they always had better bikes than me, but if I could keep up with them, tackle the same terrain as them, the distinction between our bikes (budget to mid to high end) didn't matter.
So for those of us who rightly or wrongly see (or saw) fitness as a way of being accepted within a group that's kind threatened by e bikes.
I know I’m in the minority doing this but it comes from finding having more than two mountain bikes quite annoying
I find having fewer than two annoying. If you have a short travel full sus that’s annoying you a bit I can look after it for you
This weekend I'm riding an Eeb. My mate rides one due to knee issues, so I'm joining him on a ride. I don't much care what anyone says or thinks, we'll ride, eat cake and hit trails. It's all good.
Next week, I'll be on the Slayer pedalling and even worse, I'll then be getting uplifted lol.
It's all just bikes
and even worse, I’ll then be getting uplifted
I've often wondered how many people who object to e-bikes would happily get an uplift at BPW or jump on a chairlift in the alps...
No to both here. Whispers it “I like riding up stuff”
Similar to the eBike thing, go for it if you like. I just think getting a lift up a hill to ride back down it is weird. That’s coming from a knackered out of shape person too.
Like loads of threads on here, a lot of comments come down to people being surprised and irrationally annoyed that other people like different things to them. Weird.
I honestly have nothing against eBikes or those that ride them. I just think that if you’re fit and healthy then you’re making a choice to cause greater environmental damage.
More likely, it hasn't crossed their mind. The vast majority of people aren't eco warriors. (I'm an opinionated yogurt knitter and I doubt the environmental impact of an e-bike would concern me greatly when I could be in a 3-litre diesel faux-by-four instead.)
Or do they both make you want to go trail running instead?
I ride in mixed groups of all sorts of bikes
I've been out running accompanied by someone who was on a bike. True story.
Of all the posts to pick, you’ve gone with the post that’s displaying the least of all these things!
Sorry, I probably shouldn't have quoted at all there. It was just a hook into the conversation, apologies for any unintended personal slight.
I can't believe this thread is still running.
a) Anyone who gets arsey with anyone for their riding choice or style is an epic pillock.
b) OP needs new mates, see above.
/end.
More likely, it hasn’t crossed their mind. The vast majority of people aren’t eco warriors. (I’m an opinionated yogurt knitter and I doubt the environmental impact of an e-bike would concern me greatly when I could be in a 3-litre diesel faux-by-four instead.)
Still a choice whether a conscious decision or not. The faux by four thing doesn’t even make sense either. You’re normally better at this, come on, standards 😀 joking aside I’d be interested in seeing stats for eBike vs normal bike. Including average lifespan of battery, motor etc and what generally happens to them once dead.
Similar to the eBike thing, go for it if you like. I just think getting a lift up a hill to ride back down it is weird.
Me too. Be able to ride uphill under your own steam is kind of the point for me, but whatever.
I do worry about the additional environmental damage e-bikes that are ridden by healthy people are adding to sensitive areas and the possible backlash that will inevitably include real bikes by people who don't understand that there's any difference. E.g. during the last snow I was floundering my way up a Black Mountain ridge when I was passed by a group of healthy young men on big ebikes who could just smash their way along the trail, churning it up considerably. None of us were meant to be there, but they left a trail far greater than mine. The ebikes made it much more easy for the riders to get to that location and the natural limitations are removed (it's a bastard to get up there) so many more will do it.
Relatively small problem though.
You’re normally better at this, come on, standards
😝
Point was, an e-bike may be less green than a regular bike but it's still better than many alternatives. And the actual point, unfortunately, was that pretty much no-one cares.
To be brutal, quite often people we ride with aren’t really ‘friends’, what we have in common is that we ride bikes.
Somewhat interesting in that all bar one person I rode with regularly, all my riding mates have been good friends and relatives first. I don’t include people I have ridden with once as a riding buddy.
The important thing about this is the friendships that led to riding and how strong they are.
- Big Ian. 28 years+
- Little Ian. 28 years+
- My brother. 29 years+
- Mark (RIP). 12 years
- My son. 2 years
- Tariq. 24 years
- Tony. 7 years
- Steve. 7 years
- Patrick. 7 years
- Matt. 20 years
- Edward. 6 years
All of these I met as friends first or colleagues that became good friends - or that happen to be unlucky enough that I am a close relative. They all have been supportive and I love them dearly.
Good friends can last forever - and I am fortunate enough that I am still have friends I go to gigs with. have worked with and even gone to secondary school with.
I can’t believe this thread is still running.
And yet it is...
I think the nub of it is that although us "eeeb-haters" are in a smaller minority (does seem to be the case generally). A good chunk of those still deep in the throws of infatuation with their motorised pretend bicycles are affronted that people might not share their love of the things and need to find arguments, justifications and act like the victims of hate crime (that only affects those wealthy enough for a Turbo Levo).
When in reality eeebs aren't that amazing (no I don't own one), they take the hardest parts out of cycling and cut out the "boring parts" (for a price) which can be beneficial for some, but ultimately some of us do enjoy that extra challenge and the additional time it takes a bit more.
We're noticing a distinct 'branching' in what MTBing is for some and it prompts questions over what this hobby/pastime/sport and the associated social constructs related to that really mean. IMO the result is (e)MTB is starting to live up to the previously applied labels of "expensive" and being a bit of an "arms race"...
I can't help thinking other sub-sets of cycling are a bit more accessible now, you don't take up road cycling and immediately learn you need a motor to ride with friends (maybe just carbon the aero wheels 😉 )...
In the long run I think the perception that an eeeb is necessary will put more people off of MTBing than it manages to attract.
hardest parts out of cycling
The bits where you'd normally be pushing?
The bits where you’d normally be pushing?
Depends on the individual really doesn't it, whether you do it on foot or with a nice low ratio it's all your effort, that in an of itself is a thing some people actually want.
I guess all I'm saying is that supplementing your effort with some electrons you bought isn't for everyone, so don't be so surprised if people who thought they were turning up for a knife fight take umbridge when you pull out a gun...
That's no way to enjoy a group ride is it 😉
A good chunk of those still deep in the throws of infatuation with their motorised pretend bicycles are affronted that people might not share their love of the things and need to find arguments, justifications and act like the victims of hate crime (that only affects those wealthy enough for a Turbo Levo).
I've got one, justification: none why should I have to justify anything I do. Pretend bike? Nope it's pretty real and was a hoot at Yair today. As I am sure the steel pace hardtail will be tomorrow. Oh not a levo though, a kenevo. You may not love or like them but as with lots of things in life being an arse about stuff just make you look like an arse.
Irrational dislike for people enjoying the same/similar things has gone on for years.
impreza vs evo. Sports bikes vs Harley’s. Football team A vs football team B.
hell, back in the day us Citroen Saxo owners used to hate ford zetec-s owners.
it was all hypothetical dislike tho. You wouldn’t actually throw a punch at an evo driver at the traffic lights when you pulled up in your WRX STi.
I personally love all aspects and challenges of maintain biking. I get the same sense of achievement by nailing a steep section down as I do getting to the top of a steep climb. The amount of adrenaline is less, but the satisfaction is the same.
an EMTB won’t be in my garage anytime soon and that’s totally cool. And I’m happy to be overtaken on the uphills by the bloke with a massive beer belly, sat down, crunching gears in his full face helmet.
You do you and I’ll do me.
– My son. 2 years
I'm totally trying to work out if
1) your 2 year old son rides like a demon
2) your son has only been riding for 2 years
3) you've only started liking your son two years ago...
🙂
I’m totally trying to work out if
1) your 2 year old son rides like a demon
2) your son has only been riding for 2 years
3) you’ve only started liking your son two years ago…
🙂
🤣 He’s been riding as part of the family since he was 4 - he has been riding with me and my other riding buddies for 2 years!
My issue with some guys I ride with is that even if I turned up on an E bike they'd still be quicker on their non E bikes down and up the trails....
cookea
A good chunk of those still deep in the throws of infatuation with their motorised pretend bicycles are affronted that people might not share their love of the things and need to find arguments, justifications and act like the victims of hate crime (that only affects those wealthy enough for a Turbo Levo).
Despite me owning one this is broadly what I am trying to say... that and the eMTB forums/FB groups etc. seem to want to add in derogatory phrases for real bikes rather than just accept it's not for everyone.
When you say a "good chunck" it seems like an echo chamber. Someone will post a "Why do some idiots keep their Amish bike" thread or "what's the most derogatory term for the peasants" thread and these are literally pile ons.. normalising these concepts.
In the long run I think the perception that an eeeb is necessary will put more people off of MTBing than it manages to attract.
IMHO it's certainly leading to (or increasing) a divisive element. The thing put me (and a lot of my mates) off most prior to owning one was the "once you try it you'll never ride a real bike again"
Someone will post a “Why do some idiots keep their Amish bike” thread or “what’s the most derogatory term for the peasants” thread and these are literally pile ons..
🙄 Links or it didn't happen...
I did 50+ miles this weekend, from local rides to FoD and Dowies. I rode 3 different Ebikes.
Trek Rail
Specialized HT something
Liv Embolden E+
I was riding with Ebikers for 99% of the rides... Did i enjoy myself... yeah deffo...They do give a certain 'something' in terms of effortless speed. Well, not effortless, but less effort. So at Dowies you could fly up, ride down, then up again, without getting back to the top slightly knackered. Even on the local ride yesterday, it was great at times getting up the hills and flying on the flat bits....
But... and this is always the but for me, i'm not keen on how they ride, when the power kicks in as you reset pedal position, when they're in the air and even landing, cornering isn't too bad i'll admit... But still not really what i want/enjoy from a ride.
I don't know if there was any hatred as we were all on Eebs... but i'm still yet to be fully convinced.
I personally love all aspects and challenges of maintain biking. I get the same sense of achievement by nailing a steep section down as I do getting to the top of a steep climb. The amount of adrenaline is less, but the satisfaction is the same.
an EMTB won’t be in my garage anytime soon and that’s totally cool. And I’m happy to be overtaken on the uphills by the bloke with a massive beer belly, sat down, crunching gears in his full face helmet.
You do you and I’ll do me.
This.
I’ve got one, justification: none why should I have to justify anything I do. Pretend bike? Nope it’s pretty real and was a hoot at Yair today. As I am sure the steel pace hardtail will be tomorrow. Oh not a levo though, a kenevo. You may not love or like them but as with lots of things in life being an arse about stuff just make you look like an arse.
See you're sort of making my point for me getting all "triggered" because I called them pretend bikes (OK I apologise, they're very real) and despite saying you need no justifications you went on to provide a few: you're other bike is "acoustic" you don't own the specific model I referenced and so on... Who Cares? Can't you just be quietly smug on your electro dandy-horse while arses like me simmer with our mild resentment?
All the bleating and complaining because people don't universally like your favourite toy is a bit redundant, you're not some oppressed minority, more people seem to have a Lob-on for eeebs than not, they're mostly owned by people with a significant chunk of disposable income, very few people seem to really cares about the downsides. Sometimes you just have to accept there's a baseline level of dislike for you from some people and live with it. It's like driving an Audi or being a Tory the personal benefits from your choices should just let you rise above the hate. Certainly don't engage with weirdos on the internet, we'll only drag you down to our level 😉
🙄 Links or it didn’t happen…
forever on eMTB forums FB page.
I don't think I can see the the "why do people not chuck their real bike" thread as it must be on ignore or something.
Similar to those on amish bikes shrieking "its a MOPED / MOTORCYCLE etc.
Its just bantz.
Ah, so on FB, not the actual forum? I don't use any of the eBike pages on ArseBook.
I joined the group and took a look. Your links only took me to the group page so I used the same search term. I had to go back to Nov 21 to find a post with peasant in the OP.
I have nothing to add here other than one of my mates told me recently that in Belgium they refer to non-e bikes as "muscle bikes" and that is how I will be referring to my own Giant TCR every single time from now on for the rest of my life.
^^ Muscle bikes, I like that.👍😁
I wrote this myself obviously:
The road is shared, by two kinds of riders,
One on an ebike, the other a normal glider.
The rivalry's real, it can't be denied,
As they pass each other, with a sneer or a pride.
The ebike rider, with a silent hum,
Passes the normal rider, who's left feeling dumb.
They pedal and sweat, with every ounce of might,
While the ebike zips by, like a bird in flight.
The normal rider, with a scowl on their face,
Thinks of the ebike rider, as a cheater in the race.
While the ebiker, with a smirk on their lips,
Thinks of the normal rider, as a relic of the past, who skips.
The battle rages on, with each side taking aim,
The normal rider defending their pride, with no shame.
While the ebike rider, with their electric charge,
Passes by, unfazed, leaving the normal rider at large.
But in the end, it's not about who's first or who's last,
It's about the joy of riding, with no need for a cast.
So let the rivalry end, and the road be shared with pride,
For in the end, it's the ride that counts, not the mode of the ride.
For in the end, it’s the ride that counts, not the mode of the ride.
Coincidentally, also the motto of my old student nightclub.
(are you looking for the word "caste" rather than "cast" there?)
^^ Erm... I'll have a word with the author.😉
Just been for an ebike ride. Spring just deciding whether to make an appearance, peace and love all round. Didn't meet any other cyclists on the trails mind, only walkers.
But in the end, it’s not about who’s first or who’s last,
It’s about the joy of riding, with no need for a cast.
I don't get the whole 'cast' thing here? Is there a form of transport which requires you to have a cast fitted? Is this some sort of distasteful reference to motorised wheelchairs maybe? Having a snide dig at ebike riders by comparing their steeds to wheelchairs? If so I think it's in very poor taste indeed.
It puts cycling in a favourble light compared to angling.