You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
It sounds like a toxic group/place to be honest. I just can’t see the problem with mixed riding - just that the ebikes may have to wait at the top of the hill or stick it in eco and ride up together.
Riding with mates is about riding with mates - not about who rides what and how much it costs.
and then when you back up a counterclaim with numbers you just get met with complete dismissal.
Whilst being a lazy git who cant be arsed to train hard and so am happy being at the back I suspect even I would be a tad miffed at someone going "well its only on eco so really I was riding at least as hard as you".
It does seem a difficult problem to solve unless you are riding in a group which routinely stops for cake/coffee/beer at random and so there is no pressure on anyone.
I can see why a serious racing snake would get a tad annoyed at someone like me cruising alongside them having sacrificed the nth pint for getting up early for a zwift session.
Depends on the type of riding you're doing and whether everyone is aligned.
"Social" rides where no one is trying to get fit and/or trying to squeeze in a ride in a short time slot - mixed abilities/fitness/bike-types shouldn't matter (type 1 ride)
But rides which have particular objectives (eg fitness or training, time-constrained or particularly demanding rides <distance/climbing/duration>) (type 2 ride), then the mixture of riders needs to be more closely aligned and this is where ebikes mixing with non-ebikes may be a problem as there IS a fundamental difference in dynamics. So I can see why a (lone?) ebiker wouldn't be welcomed.
Personally, if it was just type 1 rides or the occasional type 2 ride, I wouldn't be bothered by presence of ebikes BUT I'd not want to regularly do type 2 rides with an ebiker, same as I'd not want to do these types of rides with a non-ebiker who is massively faster or slower than me.
For the record, I find it really irritating if a faster rider sits on my back wheel up technical singletrack climbs I'm trying to clean, whether they are just a lot fitter than me or on an ebike.
For whatever reason, it doesn't irritate me as much if I can hear them suffering as badly as I am! Call that a character flaw if you want...
Like it or not, we'll probably all be on ebikes eventually if we keep riding long enough. I'm looking forward to still being able to ride long into old age with the help of one. Just not quite yet, for various reasons. But I'll be quite grateful that all the people who bought them now have basically helped do the field testing for whatever I end up on in 20-25 years' time.
Also, when riding with the family, a friend with an ebike and a towheee can keep everyone moving, even when they're tired, and that's cool.
My main complaint about ebikes is that very few of them use their power to run margherita makers, and riding is thirsty work.
I think the final thing is probably bound to my local trails, which are basically short, sharpish climbs and short descents. As and when I ride in a group with ebikes, they're often able to do another trail in the time it takes to winch our socially-paced analogue group up to the top. That means both groups have to make compromises, which is a shame, as it's often quite fun riding with lots of different people. But we had that with singlespeeds not so long ago, too: I still occasionally go out on one to remind myself of how nailed my knees are, and zooming off up the climbs because I have no choice in my gear selection is pretty antisocial.
What was that Surly blog? This one, maybe? Yeah. https://surlybikes.com/blog/some_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_post_ive_ever_read
Like it or not, we’ll probably all be on ebikes eventually if we keep riding long enough.
I think I hate this sentiment most of all, as if they're inevitable for everybody.
Plenty of people have managed to keep riding without battery assistance. I hope to be one of them.
Like it or not, we’ll probably all be on ebikes eventually if we keep riding long enough.
I think I hate this sentiment most of all, as if they’re inevitable for everybody
You seem to have contacted on the negative side of this and ignored the positive.
I’m looking forward to still being able to ride long into old age with the help of one
Er, no? I mean, you're missing the point.
I acknowledge that they're great for people who would otherwise be unable to ride.
I don't believe they're inevitable for all people though, and I dislike that that's often trotted out as common wisdom.
use their power to run margherita makers
Were might one find one of these devices?
Asking for a friend.
Oh good it’s still going. I’m with aidy on this one. If it came to the point where it was eBike or give up riding I’m not sure where I would land. The expense is a big blocker, also the extra environmental impact that comes with batteries and disposal. I actually enjoy the physical exertion aspect of cycling too.
Christ! I still ride a HT partly due to the lack of faff and fewer things to go wrong. An eBike, for me personally, just seems to have more downsides than up. More power (ha!) to anyone that uses them though. No hate here. Plus they’re ****ing ugly things and I’m that sad when it comes to aesthetics.
100% with @Aidy
The idea that old age = infirmity is ingrained into a lot of people, but it's bunkum. Use it, consistently, or lose it.
If you've lost it, and you're 70 years old, get back on the weights. You can build muscle mass back. Just takes a little longer.
If it came to the point where it was eBike or give up riding I’m not sure where I would land.
Interesting test thought. I'd 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider? No way I'd stop rolling on 2 wheels just because I need some help up the hills. I intend to be the oldest singlespeeder in the 5 valleys one day and I'll quite happily be the oldest on the highway and byways on a pedelec one day after that.
If you’ve lost it, and you’re 70 years old, get back on the weights. You can build muscle mass back. Just takes a little longer.
"What is your malfunction?"
. I actually enjoy the physical exertion aspect of cycling too.
You hear this kind of thing a lot, but you know you can still absolutely destroy yourself on an ebike,you'll just be going a lot faster than you would at the same effort on a normal bike.
What an ebike gives you is the option to be super lazy, whereas on a normal bike you usually don't have that option.but you don't have to be super lazy on an ebike
The eBike hating is ridiculous. The only consideration when my mate’s are planning a ride without me on my Levo, is hike-a-bike. No no no. Although it has happened, and sometimes dose. Or weather or not to bring a towie. Everyone took the piss at first, but the majority have got eebs or are considering one. Getting a face on because of what Someone else is riding is a poor reflection on yourself
“What an ebike gives you is the option to be super lazy!
Because the singlespeed is hard, you will not like it. But the more you hate it, the more you will learn. It is hard but it is fair!
God has a hard-on for singlespeeders because we kill every hill we see! He plays His games, we play ours!”
(no pisstaking intended and clearly I have zero to contribute to the discussion at this stage)
Just an observation but there do seem to be some ex bunters that shout very loudly about how much they dislike ebikes.
Is it like an ex smoker thing😉
As for giving up riding rather than eeb it. That's just ****ing weird.
Not weird just likely unaffordable and comes with extra environmental concerns. Also extra stuff to go wrong.
You hear this kind of thing a lot, but you know you can still absolutely destroy yourself on an ebike,you’ll just be going a lot faster than you would at the same effort on a normal bike.
Of course I know that but it simply doesn’t appeal. Shocking I know. Nothing against e-bikes or the people that ride them. Just not for me. It’s a step away from what cycling is for me personally. I’d have no issue riding with people on them, that is weird behaviour.
But give up riding. Shudders.
Indeed. Ive been riding 30 years, never been the fittest. Good shape though compared to my none cycling peers. Now I can ride and keep up with my super fit mates ( won the Sam haughtiness challenge, Fred whitton challenge types) and they get the miles in at pace. Or they get a tow, and don’t have to open gates. It’s all shits and giggles, dicking about on bikes
But give up riding. Shudders.
It would be a difficult decision to be sure. Give up or spend money I likely won’t have on an ugly bike that I therefore wouldn’t want to ride and probably wouldn’t be able to just throw in the shed covered in filth. Wires, batteries, motors. What’s next firmware updates for a pushbike? 🤮
I’d 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider?
What a ridiculous thing to say
One thing I have found is over the past few years I got fed up with winter riding at night in mud for months on end, which started to make me not enjoy a bike ride, which is wrong. Im now way more likely to go out in bad conditions for a night ride on my Ebike.
I hate ebikes.
Not ebikers.
I love my singlespeed and the day I can't ride that I'll cry. But hate anyone else for riding an ebike? No way.
If it came to the point where it was eBike or give up riding I’m not sure where I would land.
I’d 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider?
What a ridiculous thing to say
So you think the person that [b]doesn't ride[/b] is more of a rider than someone that [b]is riding[/b] an eeber?
What a ridiculous thing to say
No more ridiculous than claiming that giving up riding is preferable to riding an e-bike.
I think that trying to say that someone who at some point in the far future may choose not to ride an ebike is not a "true rider" is ridiculous, yes.
No more ridiculous than claiming that giving up riding is preferable to riding an e-bike.
Believe it or not some of us paupers like riding bikes! And I'm not even a bonafide pauper, got kids, mortgage, bills etc. E-bike not even worth thinking about.
I think that trying to say that someone who at some point in the far future may choose not to ride an ebike is not a “true rider” is ridiculous, yes.
That's not what was said though is it.The choice was don't ride or ride an eeber.
That is exactly what was said because I said it and quoted affordability as one of the main reasons.
If it came to the point where it was eBike or give up riding I’m not sure where I would land. The expense is a big blocker, also the extra environmental impact that comes with batteries and disposal.
You’ve forced me to quote myself you Monster! I hope you’re happy 😀
Also wtf is a true rider? Sounds a bit road for me so I’m out. Riding bikes in the woods and hills is a hobby for me. If I get priced out due to age and mobility at some point then so be it. I’ll just pick up a new hobby!
Sorry funk.😀
All of these people here with their new-fangled "bicycles" whilst I'm out running, bloody easy mode I tell you! You should put some real effort in! I can do 10k in around an hour and I'm knackered, they've barely broken a sweat!!
It shouldn’t be a surprise that some riders get a bit miffed with some ebikers, when they come out with “we’re probably actually working *harder* than you”, and then when you back up a counterclaim with numbers you just get met with complete dismissal.
(and a good few people who've commented in agreement)
It genuinely astounds me that anyone would care. They're going to get a bit miffed, well, fine, so what, be a bit miffed then. No-one died. The e-bikers with their batteries and their alleged attitudes, whatevs, meet you in the pub in an hour when I've caught you up. The fixie**** with the graphs and a spredsheet going "aksherlee..." likewise, there's a knock on behind the bar when you get here. Or we could all put a bit more effort into riding at a similar pace if the goal is socialising.
Because. Seriously. Really? If you're semi-pro then I get it, if you're chasing some Strava record then I (kind of) get it, but if you're going out for a casual ride with mates then for ****'s sake just go out with a casual ride with mates. What someone else is riding, whether better or worse, makes zero practical difference to your own ride. I deal with enough 'tude at work without having to put up with it during leisure activities.
This entire discussion is bloody weird.
Believe it or not some of us paupers like riding bikes! And I’m not even a bonafide pauper, got kids, mortgage, bills etc. E-bike not even worth thinking about.
You don't have to make the choice today you know. Keep on riding and enjoying your neeb until such time as you can't/don't and then reconsider. Or don't, it's no skin off my nose.
Wtf is a neeb?
Knee issue perhaps?
Wtf is a neeb?
Not an eeb, obvs.
(Hateful, isn't it.)
So a bike then. No wonder some people hate these dickheads 😀 I’m beginning to see why. Might go to work in my nec or on the neb tomorrow!
Yeah, a close second to "everyone will be on an ebike one day" is all the ridiculous terms people come up with for bikes
No wonder some people hate these dickheads
Anything I can do to keep all you miserable neebers away from the fun side is worth it. 😀
Why two e’s though? Not an enjoyable electric bike? Entertaining? Eccentric? Economical?
No idea, I didn't coin the term. I think it might have been Gary, in which case it was almost certainly done to antagonise.
Or Gary is just shit at acronyms or spelling. He is called Gary after all
I think ebikers shouts 'eebit' as they're about to ascend a hill on their eebs. Or something.
Earnings before income tax? These eBike riders and their piles of cash!
Why two e’s though?
It doesn't stand for anything. It's a shortened word.
Sam Pilgrim started it as far as I'm aware.
It's just saying ebike, but cutting out the 'ike'
What you end up with sounds like eeb.
I wouldn't take it so seriously.
I'm sure plenty have said similar throughout the thread, but get this haters/deniers/objectors
Those of us that have embraced e-bikes....
Wait for it....
This will blow your mind....
Some of us actually....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Still get to ride normal bikes too!
😉
Footnote - I don't ride any of my blummin bikes enough
Pff. You don't even pay road tax.
Earnings before income tax? These eBike riders and their piles of cash!
I'm self employed so mines classed as a tax right off
😉😁😆
I wouldn’t take it so seriously.
don’t worry I’m not. Just taking the piss
Footnote – I don’t ride any of my blummin bikes enough
you’re in good company on here then. I occasionally look at my single Amish bike when I open the shed.
I wouldn’t take it so seriously.
Is all that needs to be said on the whole discussion really. Way too much hate/divisive crap going on about eBikes. They are not for me but I couldn't care less what other people ride.
Earnings before income tax? These eBike riders and their piles of cash!
I haven't worked for almost three years.🤣
A lot of people seem to hate them as suddenly they aren't first to the top any more...surely it should be an incentive to keep digging, pushing and improving rather than get really peeved that they aren't first up and can't get a decent rest.
A bike is a bike, if some assistance is required to keep the person riding, then I don't see the issue. Getting out for a ride is always better than not going out.
I'm thinking of going to glentress on Saturday but only have the morning to play with. Plan is Pace rc529 for a lap of the red with a black/ponduro finish. Then crack out the kenevo sl for a second lap with a couple more off piste parts. At what stage should I hate myself or is the a bit of forgiveness as the sl only has 240W in turbo (I'll be in trail at a max of 140Wassist).
I plan on having fun.
I’m thinking of going to glentress on Saturday but only have the morning to play with. I plan on having fun.
FTFY - that is all you need to say...really makes absolutely no odds what you will be riding, just get out and ride.
I’d 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider?
What a ridiculous thing to say
It is and it's about as far into trolling as I'd go. It was tounge in cheek or a dig at the 'real riders' BS you get from occasional trad bike / neeb riders.
But the point is, if you're really addicted to the feeling of flowing through the woods on 2 wheels it won't matter how you get to the top, you'll enjoy it. Of course while we can we'll make a choice on how we get there / what we ride. But if you take that choice away due to age, maybe I'm 85.. I'll ride the e-bike if it keeps me out there. I reckon they'll be amazing products by then.
So 'true rider' = a daft way to say someone who just loves the 2-wheeled experience above all and isn't going to leave some bike types on the shelf. Someone who'd replace a car with a cargobike, ride an e-bike as they get old, ride an e-bike now for the fun of it, road bike mountain bike all good, the lot.
I find my hatred of my riding buddies is the same whether i am riding my ebike or my other bike.
Not sure if already mentioned but you now have an E-bike option on Strava.
As for the riding group, I think the problem is with the individuals who are making the comments, not you guys on the E-bikes. There has always been a bike ability/fitness/technology/cost/choice split in every riding group but that shouldn't enable people to essentially bully and abuse others.
As said in other comments, just ride with the folk you like, life is too short to spend time and energy with people you don't get on with.
If I had an ebike and rode with other on regular bikes then I'd take one of these and offer them a tow, would only be fair.
https://kidsrideshotgun.co.uk/products/shotgun-mtb-tow-rope
@didmthurt Don't joke...
I have no issue with anyone on an e-bike and to me it is all riding bikes... but i had to laugh on last Heaven of the South event, when a group of guys all on chipped bikes with rucsacs on so they could carry spare battery and ride "turbo" everywhere whipped out a tow strap, proceeded to tow a mate up the climb so that the strap covered the whole singletrack climb and no-one could get past, so we had to get off and walk, whilst they towed him.
I think the only time it bugs me is on climbs where they can't get past, so just sit there and buzz back wheel... other than that fill your boots..
CountZero
Swap the eBiker for me on a regular mountain bike, when I tried riding with a group, they’d all wait at the top for me, once I got there, it’d be “right, everyone ready? Off we go.” With zero chance for me to catch my breath, grab a drink or anything. I stopped riding with a group after that, I can’t deal with that sort of attitude.
Haven’t ridden for years, though, too afraid to in case I come off again and do further damage to my knee.
This is one of the issues and my experience is it's often one of the previous riders we'd wait for gets an eMTB and turns into the one setting off before the stragglers have a proper break.
I'm usually nowhere near the back unless I'm sweeping on a group ride but people I've previously encouraged, pushed (on my mechanicals) etc. then trying to ruin the day for someone else through either being insensitive to others or some sort of weird "look how good I am now" really grinds at me if I'm honest.
I can live with the XC bunnies (to some extent) as they probably don't (really) know the misery they are causing (as they piss off before the poor sod has a breakdown) but these are the people who 90% of the group took under their wing and tried to make it fun for.
el_boufador
What’s with all the shade being lobbed at Steve Jones?
Just interested
He always seems alrightish when I’ve watched something on EMBN (which is rarely)
Not him per-se he's just the poster boy...
If you do watch a few episodes the calling non eMTB riders "the peasants" and the "you'll never ride an Amish bike again" stuff gets old pretty quickly to me but to others it seems to be the 'How eMTBers talk about "the poors"' ..
BruceWee
Full MemberIsn’t the solution obvious?
TowWhees for all!
I used to tow the kids with the regular bike but an E-bike makes it a tad easier.
This thread is an excellent advert for riding on your own. As if by magic, no-one will be mean to you for riding an e-bike or not an e-bike. You won't have to wait for anyone / set off when you're not ready. And you'll avoid the inevitable, highly traumatic group break-up triggered by Terry's fury that Dave looked at him funny over a half-eaten cornish pastie at the cafe stop that only half the group actually wanted. There is no mixed riding group. There is no 'hatred'. The people who you think of as 'friends', but in reality are just people who you sometimes ride a bike with, will not exist in your life.
A propos of which, riding buddies often aren't really 'friends' at all. How often do you see your riding 'friends' when you're not riding bikes. Do you invite them over for tea. Or go out on the town with them. Would you even recognise them without a helmet and baggy shorts? Sure, some of them do become genuine mates, but mostly they are people you ride with and often best kept that way. Especially the really saintly, drippy ones who are revoltingly tolerant of everything. Lord preserve us.
All that's left to do is be conflicted over whether to hate yourself if/when you ride an e-bike alone. I can cope with that, we both can.
This thread is an excellent advert for riding on your own.
I get you 100%, but at the risk of repeating myself, the OP would not get this treatment at the hands of some genuine mates, who love mountain biking for the fun of it. Same to you BWD, if you feel the need to ride alone, please come and ride the south downs with me, I don't care if you are faster or slower.
Same to you BWD, if you feel the need to ride alone, please come and ride the south downs with my, I don’t care if you are faster or slower.
It's a kind offer, but you sound overly decent to me. I'm not sure I can cope with that 🙂
Mind you there are two things that irk me about ebikes!!
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill - leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
Topping strava segments, its quite obvious when they are on ebikes, but not declaring it. Some one in our local village, out of nowhere, has taken a lot of quite difficult uphill KOM’s, off road. No history in cycling until last year.
Anyway, I have gone off topic, apologies OP.
I used to tow the kids with the regular bike but an E-bike makes it a tad easier.
Got a lid, but no pads or gloves. A even a little fall could seriously ruin the day.
Not being judgemental 😆
When I ebike Strava flags my rides as "it looks like you were in an ebike, do you want to change the ride" so not doing that is dicks being dicks because they are dicks.
In todays edition of I’m Rich, You’re Poor:
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
Maybe it's an age thing but I don't even hate the illegal ebikes that the delivery folk ride about on. Better than a stinky van.
Not experienced antisocial ebike riders on the trail yet so maybe this might change when someone is buzzing my back wheel.
I like the term "eeb"
"Acoustic" or "neeb" not so much.
Thanks for that BWD, gave me a laugh 🙂
Got a lid, but no pads or gloves. A even a little fall could seriously ruin the day.
Not being judgemental 😆
No offence taken. 😁
TBH he has gloves but generally chooses not to wear them. Pads? What are they?
If he falls & gets scuffed he doesn't complain. Just gets up & gets on with it.
Goes to rugby training all year round (in Aberdeenshire) and only ever wears shorts. Like his brother.
I guess when he's better (& faster) and tackling bigger stuff we'll upgrade his protection.
This thread is an excellent advert for riding on your own.
Yep, although being autistic I don't have friends anyway so not a choice I have to make! But I think for me the ride would be ruined if I had to leave at exact time, wait for people, try to small talk with people etc,. My riding is from the door and I don't stop until I get back again.
The few times I have been going same way as an eBike I quite enjoy trying to keep up on the hills and find them a very good pacemaker.
I'm just travelling back from holiday in Yunnan Province in China. The capital, Kunming, has several DH type trails where you pay locals with minibuses/vans to take you up to the trailhead.
Normally bikes are fine as you're mostly pointing downwards, from 2250 to 1900m. You could even ride from most places in the city to where the uplifts run from.
But then there's Dali, where the local riders, older riders than Kunming, have been examining local hiking trails on a mobile APP and checking out which are rideable. Almost every mountain there has multiple trails, of which most have proven rideable. Some (ecological) adjustments have admittedly been made in places.
My 150/160mm budget (heavy) trail bike was a slog to push up many inclines, starting from a point at 3000m. About 50% of the riders were on ebikes. The majority without ebikes had flown/driven in on holiday for the first time there. I can almost guarantee the second time they'll come ebike equipped. Or rent from the local Dali Enduro MTB hostel.
I think, if you live in a pretty flat region, or with short trails, that you'll tend to run that polarizing argument through your head. Me, I'd live and work in Kunming, and go on riding holidays in Dali. Have a different bike for each purpose (finances providing) The riding in Dali was just too inconvenient normal bikes. Even the lightweight carbon Bronsons I picked up and wowed at.
Ebikes work on ebike trails. Work for older, or injured people. I hope that latter group doesn't have to wear special badges on normal trails to justify their choice. But, likewise, a team moves at the speed of its slower member. Or you ride alone.
In todays edition of I’m Rich, You’re Poor:
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
What a bizarre post. Says more about the chip on your shoulder than anything else.
What are ebike trails? If you are suggesting anything that goes upwards is an ebike trail then I think you are missing a large part of the point...unless people are now building ebike-specific trails and I've missed the fanfare about this.
Rider ability seems to be missing in all these arguments, for some people, the actual effort and skill involved in powering themselves up/over/across/down things is equally as rewarding as just riding the bike. For other people, having a bit of assistance helps them to get the most out of their riding...for others, they just want an ebike and other just don't want an ebike...each to their own, doesn't really make any odds if you are out riding your bike.
Ebike trails-
those which used to have corners but which became straighter from strava timing uberlords and now are even straighter with the popularity of shit riders on Ebikes.
Shit bikers are shit bikers regardless if they have a motor or not. I guarantee you the vast majority of people who complain about ebikers messing up trails dedicate zero time themselves to trail maintenance and dig days.
I say this as a non ebiker who does 1 day a month of trail maintenance.
people have been cutting corners before ebikes + strava were even invented.
nickfrog
Free MemberWhat a bizarre post. Says more about the chip on your shoulder than anything else.
Not at all, I have no issues with ebikes. But if I had one I wouldn't be telling my mates to stay at home until they were able to buy their own