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I think it is just people, as sad as it is – some people get older but don’t grow up and keep with the playground bullying attitude.
Some very wise words from johndoh there, which could be applied to many situations, not just organising group rides!
To the OP maybe try having one last go at explaining your side and if you only get a negative response move on.
I've been the slow person at the back of group rides and my overall enjoyment has been negatively impacted if the majority of the group puts too much pressure on the slowest to keep up a pace they can't maintain. Waiting at the top of a climbs for slower members should also mean giving them time to recover (not just flying off like scalded cats when they catch up).
I guess enjoyment from social rides with mates can mean different things for different people, some want to take the opportunity to catch up and have a chat during the ride and some want to 'push on' for the ride and save the chat to the cafe/ Pub.
I can understand how throwing EEBs into the mix could cause problems unless everyone has some idea what to expect from a ride. Nothing against EEBs though, more power to you if you have one they look like fun, if prices ever come down significantly I might get one.
Just knobs being knobs, don't bother with them.
In most riding groups, i'm at the group average fitness or greater, so spent a lot of time giving space to/ensuring slower riders feel included and get adequate breaks at the top. My annoyance is that now a lot of those people i used to make an extra effort with due to them being slower, they now have ebikes and aren't returning a similar courtesy. I'm not going to kill myself because you're on an ebike. Plus if i'm riding with someone, i like to see it a social, so expect lots of chatting and social time, especially since i'm definitely compromising on the riding side, as the ebike rider will, by going at neeb pace.
I do have an ebike, but isn't for me.
I normally ride on my own, but when I do ride with others it's very much about the shared experience. The people I ride with are pretty similar in ability so there's not much waiting around, we just get on with the ride and all suffer/have fun the same. If someone turned up with a e-mtb it would completely change the dynamics, the bond we have would be broken. If mixed groups work that's fine but they won't for everyone. It sounds to me that the bond holding the OP's group together has broken and so what 🤷♂️. You are only a loosely connected group meeting a couple of times a year. Just find other people to ride with, or just enjoy more solo rides and please yourself what and how you ride.
Sounds like they weren't really very good friends in the fist place. I ride in a group of 6 ro 7 guys with ebikes down the borders most weeks. I was the last one to get an ebike so the months leading up to me getting one I just did my own thing as Its nice of people to wait for you ultimately a mixed group dosent really work. Getting back to your point If your mates were being nasty it genuinley sounds like they are knobends Im sorry to say and probably just a bit jealous.
Just ride with the nice ones.
I often ride in a group with everything from niche singlespeeds, enduro gnarpoons and Ebikes, its all a laugh as ****ting about bikes should be and there is no issues or even slight arsey "banter". Sounds like the OP's riding group are dicks.
good to see you’ve integrated nicely and non-dickishly into a group of non-ebikes, so you are clearly doing it right.
but what does the new slowest person think about all this?
That's a good question, it's a fairly small group with fairly similar fitness levels but can definitely see rides where that can cause problems. If I spot anyone struggling I'll sit beside them at their pace or give them a wee push but can see from the comments here that might be the worst thing to be doing!
It's a real tough one from the back of the pack point of view as I was getting pretty close to stopping going out as I hated everyone hanging about in the cold or cutting rides short.
Sounds like the OP’s riding group are dicks.
That's basically it, innit.
I guess (barely ridden with eebers myself) that it's possible to integrate on "social" rides but you'd need things to really align for more enthusiastic rides to work (e.g. unfit eeber, very fit MTBer).
Sounds like a good test to find out if your riding group are friends or just "riding buddies" anyway.
@stevemtb - that's an angle I hadn't considered. Some people really hate being "last" - and if they're not catching up then that can be demoralising.
Previously the only solutions were quit, or get fitter. But now there's a "buy a motor" solution that puts people at the front and, importantly, transfers the original problem onto someone who was previously fit enough to not be last.
It's a bit like Pay2Win in computer games isn't it. 🙂
I bet Andrew Tate rides an ebike.
probably rides a surron, without a helmet - wheelying down the pedestrianised section of the high street
I guess a lot of it is about courtesy – when I’m out with the roadies I ride only in ECO mode which means the hills can be hard.
What a lot of ebikers don't seem to appreciate is how much easier even eco mode makes riding uphill over a normal bike. That extra 25% power will make the difference between riding at threshold or only zone 2.
I've only been out a couple of times with the usual riding gang on my ebike. I was the only one at the time, but they couldn't give a hoot and loved the bike
I just let them set the pace and kept back. It was mentioned when I pulled alongside someone occasionally they unwittingly busted their balls to get up a hill. It wasn't me intentionally pushing them, probably something psychological with me just sat there making it look easy made them push harder
Thanks for all the replies. Still radio silence on the WhatsApp group.
Had a ride with my ebike friend the other day and he has now removed himself from the group. I don't think I he's too bothered any way and hardly ride with the group really.
I think the thing for me is that I've not really voiced my opinion on the matter and remained largely quiet on it until this weekend.
Personally I have struggled with lack of riding friends anyway, so really wanted to keep the peace as much as possible to increase riding opportunities. I don't really enjoy riding on my own as much and generally fund myself keeping well inside my comfort zone and never push myself to try new things like I would when I'm in a group.
Anyway, I'll probably test the water with an offer of a group ride at Triscombe in a few weeks and see what they say. I might take my neeb to keep things amicable.
We only have e-bikes, both of them are SL models,possibly the weakest motors available at a lowly 35Nm .
Who are we allowed to ride with? 🤔
What a lot of ebikers don’t seem to appreciate is how much easier even eco mode makes riding uphill over a normal bike.
I think some do and some don't. Some of the groups on here sound like they are full of just the sort of people I would rather not ride with on any bike!
Meh - life's too short. If the group you are in makes you feel uncomfortable despite you offering common courtesies as described by myself and some others, then leave. 🤷♂️If you are winding them up by being a dick then serves you right. Either way, clearly some people hate ebikes for whatever reason. Likening ebike riders to Andrew Tate though is a very low and quite frankly horrendous statement to make if that is what was implied. On that basis "I'm out" as they say...
Likening ebike riders to Andrew Tate though is a very low
Think that was just sarcasm,or at least my comment was - I have 2 ebikes (although one is currently broken)
but to get touchy over a throwaway comment on a forum? Wowzers
Are you new here? 🤣
I have only read the OP so maybe this has been said. These people are not your friends dude. Find some friends. I ride in mixed groups all the time, some ebikes, some fit whippets, some fat knackers on Saracin.. The social is the ride, we wait, we chat, we banter, we never leave a man behind.
If some of the riders want to thrash, let them go. Riding is life, not a bloody work trip.
clearly some people hate ebikes for whatever reason.
I expect these same voices had a lot of negative things to say on the introduction of ....disc brakes....rear suspension....etc...etc. 😆 some folk are born to moan.
What a lot of ebikers don’t seem to appreciate is how much easier even eco mode makes riding uphill over a normal bike. That extra 25% power will make the difference between riding at threshold or only zone 2.
I was amazed this hadn't been said earlier so thought maybe it was just me!
I have two riding buddies that now only have e-bikes. I know that if I stick with them on eco for a long climb I'll pay for it later.
They tend to push give me a push once I start slowing, then I get to the point of that frustrating me, so I send them off to do a couple of trails alone. Kind of defeats the point of a group ride, but it's a compromise and we all get to enjoy our rides.
Riding is life, not a bloody work trip.
I like that 🙂
Isn't the solution obvious?
TowWhees for all!
peter1979
Thanks for all the replies. Still radio silence on the WhatsApp group.
Had a ride with my ebike friend the other day and he has now removed himself from the group. I don’t think I he’s too bothered any way and hardly ride with the group really.I think the thing for me is that I’ve not really voiced my opinion on the matter and remained largely quiet on it until this weekend.
Personally I have struggled with lack of riding friends anyway, so really wanted to keep the peace as much as possible to increase riding opportunities. I don’t really enjoy riding on my own as much and generally fund myself keeping well inside my comfort zone and never push myself to try new things like I would when I’m in a group.Anyway, I’ll probably test the water with an offer of a group ride at Triscombe in a few weeks and see what they say. I might take my neeb to keep things amicable.
Seriously I would put money its 1-2 ring leaders and the others are going along with them for the peace since you let them (are quiet).
eMTB has some pretty obnoxious and offensive stuff associated with it by the likes of Steve Jones on EMBN that is easy for people to latch onto and stick everyone in the same boat. Some of the stuff posted on eMTB forum's and FB groups is frankly disgusting so it's to be expected "the poor people" term for people with real (Amish/Acoustic) bikes who are going to develop an antipathy before they "see the light" and "throw their real bike away and never ride anything but EMTB again".
In other words this antipathy has nothing to do with YOU.... but a small minority but that minority is loud and evangelical so its affecting YOU and a couple of bullies find it easy to spread the sentiment.
I was out on my "real" HT the other day and some evangelist wouldn't shut up.
"You should get a eBike"
"I've got one"
(don't know or care if he believed me or not)
He then kept going on .. why aren't you riding it... blah blah and all the usual self justification I hadn't even asked for (It's not cheating.. you get as much exercise). Even after I told him to just **** off as I didn't want to speak to him he wouldn't STFU and started trying to chat to 2 of my mates who were on eMTB's so we pissed off down a trail he and his mates couldn't follow us.
As it happens had he bumped into me a couple of hours earlier he'd have seen me on the eMTB... but in all honesty if I wasn't already an owner and with 2 mates who ALSO own real bikes he'd have put me right off.
I guess the point is despite the brief explanation above (I didn't jump straight to just **** off that was after several minutes) .. I try and be an ambassador rather than evangelist IF and only IF people ask. Ultimately I shouldn't need to justify to an evangelist WHY I'm not riding an eMTB...
I think it's highly likely your group have bumped into people like the evangelist or seen the way some eMTB owners talk about people on "real" bikes so they are already rubbed up the wrong way and you are just the punch bag.
Anyway, I’ll probably test the water with an offer of a group ride at Triscombe in a few weeks and see what they say. I might take my neeb to keep things amicable.
If it was me I'd float a group ride and ask directly if they prefer you take the REAL bike or do they mind if you take the eMTB. (I use the word real deliberately) "because I don't want to be holding anyone up" and FFS keep away from evangelism... (doesn't seem you are - just sayin)
If that doesn't work then perhaps it's time to move on... but IMHO you don't need to justify WHY you are riding an eMTB and equally they don't need to justify why they aren't. Just bear in mind it's probably not YOU ... and it's much harder for them to justify why they don't want to ride with you than why they have an antipathy to eMTB's.
Everyones got ebikes now though….
There are several comments along this line. Group starts mixed then goes completely ebike which might explain why some arent overly keen on it. Did the late adopters switch over since they werent having fun anymore without balancing things out?
Did the late adopters switch over since they werent having fun anymore without balancing things out?
I think in our case they just decided they could have more fun on an ebike, it wasnt that their normal bikes were suddenly less fun.
Just remember not all people who ride Ebikes have one just because they want one
I got mine to get me through Chemo and I could not have ridden without it, and am still regaining some fitness
They are fun as well though 🙂
I poo-pood e-bikes for years but then I built one - On One Codeine 29er with 750w Tongsheng - and bought one - Haibike XDuro Enduro Bosch CX.
I have mates with and without e-bikes. I'll take an E-bike with the E-bike owners and a normal bike with the "analogue" riders. In a mixed group - I'll pedal.
Sometimes I'll take both to a trail centre. Ride on the normal bike mostly but then take an E-bike to do a bit extra at the end of the day.
Also, having two, I can take out a non E-bike owning mate for a days E-biking. Additionally, I can take out Her Indoors on an E-bike and I can pedal a normal bike and we both get a good workout.
The E-bike is also useful for towing kids up the hill!
On balance, I think E-MTBs are great. The only downside is lazy, fat ****ers who ride an E-bike when the rest of the group have normal bikes. Then they sit there all day pointing out how much battery % they have left. Every three minutes......
Interesting... generally fast neeb riders seem to be complaining that an eeb beats them up the hill, ergo, eebs, slow down.
If we flip this, isn't it beneficial to have an eeb in the pack as a training aid to challenge neebs to go deeper into the suffering zone?
There are several comments along this line. Group starts mixed then goes completely ebike which might explain why some arent overly keen on it. Did the late adopters switch over since they werent having fun anymore without balancing things out?
I think in our case they just decided they could have more fun on an ebike, it wasnt that their normal bikes were suddenly less fun.
I think that depends what different people mean by "more fun"
If you put TCO aside it's no different to my DJ bike... I have more types of fun owning one than just a "XC/Enduro...."
Of course if all your mates were to sell their "XC/Enduro..." and only ride DJ and you are doing it on your XC bike it might become less fun.
However out of my bunch of riding buddies it's almost the opposite. A couple sold their real bikes when they bought an eBike and then bought another real bike later whilst others like me never sold the real bikes.
Out of my main riding buddies 75% have eBikes but 75% of the rides (not miles) are on real bikes... or sometimes I lend the eBike to someone doesn't have one and ride my real bike (actually probably more often than I ride it myself)
I'm at Rogate Wed with a mate and its eBikes so we'll smash laps from the top... and on Friday 4 of us (3 with ebikes) are at BPW and we all booked uplift as one doesn't have an eBike. I'll be taking both though and swapping the band over to get a few laps before the uplift starts.
Agree with you xcgb
Got mine as I damaged my knee and was told I may need a knee replacement. Had to walk stairs one step at a time for 3 months and couldn't ride a bike either.
Gradually recovering and starting to use my hardtail again one week and ebike the other week. Eventually I want to be back on the Hardtail full time but can only manage around 8 miles before the knee starts aching so for any bigger rides will use the ebike.
My mates have been great and would rather me out on the ebike than not going out as it's a social ride with a pint and crisps at the end of the ride.
Lot of shitty comments about ebike riders on here from 'real bike' riders especially as they don't know the reasons for using one and make up their own assumptions.
OP - Talk to them about it. Properly. Listen to their views and share your own. Empathise.
And if after that they are still dicks then move on.
flyingpotatoes
Lot of shitty comments about ebike riders on here from ‘real bike’ riders especially as they don’t know the reasons for using one and make up their own assumptions.
You can ride what the **** you want... you don't need to justify it to real bike owners or anyone else so why do you think they are shitty comments?
I started on an eBike due to a knee issue...I just prefer riding my real bike when I can which thankfully for the last year has been more than I use the eMTB.
I think most anti-ebike sentiment comes from people who are being told "it's the future"... or You'll never ride your amish bike again" etc. (especially by cheats like Steve Jones - and I'm not referring to the eBike, he's just a cheat)
OP – Talk to them about it. Properly. Listen to their views and share your own. Empathise.
And if after that they are still dicks then move on
That deals with this entire thread succinctly.
especially by cheats like Steve Jones – and I’m not referring to the eBike, he’s just a cheat
what does steve jones cheat at?
what does steve jones cheat at?
you could start with the GMBN staff race ...
I don’t often post on here or other social media, but could I ask that some of you re-read the article Excess Baggage in issue 144 and then refer to why Singletrack are offering for sale the cover picture of the forthcoming 147 issue with 50% of the proceeds going to Rider Resilience, then visit the Rider Resilience web page. Also recommended is viewing the video Evolution featuring Andy Mckenna. If you can I would also recommend reading an article in the latest issue of Cranked magazine entitled the Last Ride. If you do you may get some inkling why some of us need an e-bike. When I go to the shed to take out my Orbea Rise, (but am grateful I can) it breaks my heart look at my unused Ibis Ripmo an early 65th birthday present which I loved, rode the Jennride amongst many others for 9 months, until I got an unwanted actual 65th birthday cardiac present.
With all the undercurrent dislike of e-bikes I find myself feeling I have to apologise for needing to use one now and generally being unwelcome to take part in many of the events and social rides I once enjoyed, hopefully with a little kindness, compassion and understanding, this will become a thing of the past and I can take part in many of these events I once enjoyed.
^ strong point.
With all the undercurrent dislike of e-bikes I find myself feeling I have to apologise for needing to use one now and generally being unwelcome to take part in many of the events and social rides I once enjoyed
100% not, you shouldn't feel like that. The people that have any issue with it aren't worth you explaining anything to. F 'em..
So I ride with a very mixed ability group. I'm probably the fittest by a reasonably margin but ultimately we all go out to have fun. If we have to push up hills, so bit it. It's all about having a laugh on our bikes.
Couple of weeks back a lad joined us on an ebike. Sometimes he would get off and push with us, sometimes ride without assist, sometimes with. Thing is, we all still had a laugh and no-one moaned about his motor. I rode with him again last week, I'd already been out a couple of hours and was about done when he arrived, so to get a few more laps in he pushed me up the hill a few times. He got to ride with someone, I got to ride more.
No issue. It's all about the people you ride with and not what they ride. I'd rather someone was out riding an ebike that not riding at all.
thought we'd broken one ebike friend, he's still alive..
lugging up a big trekrail up esk haus, proved he's a strong lad..
Maybe the issue is that in mixed rides, normal bikes and their riders often feel like they've somehow, quite suddenly become handicapped and through no fault of their own. It must be quite hard to get your head around the sudden asymmetry. Additionally and like many people I know who are handicapped, it often feels worse if, in a group of people, they find themselves being "accommodated" to make them feel better.
I don't know, I'm just speculating. I ride alone these days, but used to ride in a big group of mixed (ability) riders and the vast majority of the group would wait for the slowest and never leave them to ride alone. BUT, they always felt a bit resentful that as soon as they got to the top of the climb, the group would start to move off, no rest, no banter, just crack on, like they'd pulled up the anchor (you/them) and you were off.
one of the group said some really nasty stuff about ebikes and ebikers.
Send them a video of you grabbing your crotch shouting "blow me" and then remove yourself from the group. Job jobbed.
Reading the discussion here and particularly comments like "If someone turned up with a e-mtb it would completely change the dynamics" I have to ask,
These e-bike things. They have a variable throttle, yes? It's not just on or off?
So if someone on a traditional bike is blowing it out of their arse on a climb, there's no practical reason why a colleague on an e-bike can't equally pootle alongside them at walking pace rather than strava-ing off over the horizon like a 1985 De Lorean?
I might take my neeb to keep things amicable.
Then the bullies win.
jamesco
100% not, you shouldn’t feel like that. The people that have any issue with it aren’t worth you explaining anything to. F ’em..
I 100% agree BUT IMHO this just leads to the next issue.
Why should anyone feel they need to explain, let alone apologise the type of bike/riding they do.
You shouldn't have to have an injury/disability to simply choose to ride one.
Equally people shouldn't be made to defend WHY they don't... It's one thing asking, it's completely another making them defend their position and ridiculing them.
Recent EMTB forum FB thread ridiculing people who keep an amish bike AFTER buying an EEB as an example.
When I go to the shed to take out my Orbea Rise, (but am grateful I can) it breaks my heart look at my unused Ibis Ripmo
Just out of interest, what's your postcode and house number?
Asking for a friend 😉
These e-bike things. They have a variable throttle, yes? It’s not just on or off?
They don't have a throttle at all. Not the legal ones anyway.
They assist as you pedal. Different modes set at the bar, give you different levels of assistance.
Reading the discussion here and particularly comments like “If someone turned up with a e-mtb it would completely change the dynamics” I have to ask,
These e-bike things. They have a variable throttle, yes? It’s not just on or off?
As an eMTB owner/rider it doesn't work like that.
First it's not a throttle (for legal ones) its an assist and whilst there is battery it just goes on and on and on.
(Technically it doesn't as some clever systems try and conserve battery but to all intents and purposes it does)
So if someone on a traditional bike is blowing it out of their arse on a climb, there’s no practical reason why a colleague on an e-bike can’t equally pootle alongside them at walking pace rather than strava-ing off over the horizon like a 1985 De Lorean?
Yes you can.. they you can wait at the top whilst they rest... then the next hill and the one after etc. and on the 10th or 20th climb the eBiker is still getting assistance but the real biker is knackered...
All of that can be managed but it involves active management. It also IMHO involves a lot of "what to expect" and planning.
My aim for a group ride is EVERYONE enjoys the ride - the maxim "you never regret a ride only the rides you don't do" should hold true. Usually this is encouragement for someone struggling to get out when its cold/wet/dark but eMTB has changed that for many so they have a miserable ride because it's changed the dynamics.
So if someone on a traditional bike is blowing it out of their arse on a climb, there’s no practical reason why a colleague on an e-bike can’t equally pootle alongside them at walking pace rather than strava-ing off over the horizon like a 1985 De Lorean?
And this is how people who are actually mates with each other behave. At least they do in my group of riding mates.
The e-bikers pootle and chat alongside the meat powered dudes, or go back and tow the fat lad on the saracin. THATS WHAT A GROUP RIDE IS. Mates, out to play, for fun and camaraderie.
Not sure what whines more. The ebike motor or the peasants on their retro pedal bikes.
I 100% agree BUT IMHO this just leads to the next issue.
Doesn't it equally work for next issue though? All I'm saying is ride what you like and don't feel bad about it.
You shouldn’t have to have an injury/disability to simply choose to ride one.
Exactly.
"Amish bike" ... lol. I ride one. A rigid SS, so I relate to all this from the other direction. Mates are fine with waiting for me at the end of downhills towards the end of a ride when I'm beat up, or anytime it's a trail that I can't ride as fast as them. It's not hard to make it all work.
this keeps bobbing back to the top...
I guess it's the word "hatred" that stands out? Seems a bit strong. Anyway, my experience of ebikes is limited to the occasional feeling of relief that the person rapidly passing me on a climb is riding one of the things, as opposed to just being mega fit. (I know these aren't mutually exclusive, in theory...)
But I do know that feeling of "ah shite" when you turn up to a ride and realise you're going to be the slowest in the group. And I know that feeling of relief when others then turn up who you know are a bit slower. I'm happy because they're going to save me a fair deal of pain. Perhaps I shouldn't feel this way? Er, whatever. But I can more or less imagine that if they rocked up on an ebike, how rapidly would evaporate that feeling of relief and being happy to see them, to be replaced by HATE... Okay maybe not hate, I lack the energy, very mild exasperation maybe?
Doesn’t it equally work for next issue though? All I’m saying is ride what you like and don’t feel bad about it.
I agree wholeheartedly with the latter, the former I think it leads to "so what's your disability" etc.
“Amish bike” … lol. I ride one.
I could copy and paste loads of bile from eMTB forums/groups who use the term as an insult.
Usually in the same sentence as "peasants" "poor" and "jealous"
What a truly odd thread. Just ride what you like. Penny Farthing, Full Sus, Rigid, whatever. As long as you’re having fun its all good. If your friends are acting like children either confront them or bin them off.
Deep down you all know a nice hardtail is the proper way to ride.
I could copy and paste loads of bile from eMTB forums/groups who use the term as an insult.
Usually in the same sentence as “peasants” “poor” and “jealous”
They missed Luddite and Retrogrouch.
thought we’d broken one ebike friend, he’s still alive..
lugging up a big trekrail up esk haus, proved he’s a strong lad..
That wasn't you that I met on the Esk Hause Styhead descent last year was it?
The one where we used a Dynaplug tubeless fix and then resorted to a new tube.... which of course got punctured by the Dynaplug 🙂
Couldn't believe someone actually took one if their friends round that loop with an Eeb. Utter evil.
it’s not a throttle (for legal ones) its an assist
Right, understood. Thanks both.
Point is then, if they can be ridden slowly then the problem isn't ebikes (or a lack of them) is it. It's attitudes.
What a truly odd thread. Just ride what you like.
Quite. Haven't we been having this argument since long before full sus and fixie****s? Why should anyone care what someone else chooses to ride?
Why should anyone care what someone else chooses to ride?
pick a side and be a dick about it…
See politics, religion, sport, etc etc.
Yes you can.. they you can wait at the top whilst they rest… then the next hill and the one after etc. and on the 10th or 20th climb the eBiker is still getting assistance but the real biker is knackered…
Swap the eBiker for me on a regular mountain bike, when I tried riding with a group, they’d all wait at the top for me, once I got there, it’d be “right, everyone ready? Off we go.” With zero chance for me to catch my breath, grab a drink or anything. I stopped riding with a group after that, I can’t deal with that sort of attitude.
Haven’t ridden for years, though, too afraid to in case I come off again and do further damage to my knee.
What's with all the shade being lobbed at Steve Jones?
Just interested
He always seems alrightish when I've watched something on EMBN (which is rarely)
These e-bike things. They have a variable throttle, yes? It’s not just on or off?
As previously explained its not a throttle, but % of assistance.
Can only speak for what I know about my own(Bosch Performance CX G4)
It has 4 levels.
1. Eco. 60% input, so your effort is multiplied by about 1/2
2. Tour 140%
3. EMTB basically an automatic gearbox. Ranges from 'tour' at 140% to 'Turbo' at 340% depends on the effort youre putting in. So on a hill, it would increase from Tour to Turbo, then when it flattens out again, that assistance level would drop back to Tour.
4. Turbo 340%
Personally I use turbo only. Its a bit addictive especially if like myself you have health probs. So on turbo, for each turn of the cranks, the motor makes it the equivalent of 3 1/2 turns
So if someone wants to as said stay with the noon Eebs, they can select eco, which is a little bit of help, but in reality as the bike itself usually weighs about 50lbs, or approximately twice that of the non eeb, it should cancel iot out and make it the equivilent of being the same same non eeb riders*
*However, due to drag from the internal cogs etc, something like Tour would probably be closer.
That make sense to anyone ?.
I think with some of the motor types, you can adjust each level via an app. So you could change Eco from 60% to100% or Tour from 140% to 220% and so on.
r for me on a regular mountain bike, when I tried riding with a group, they’d all wait at the top for me, once I got there, it’d be “right, everyone ready? Off we go.” With zero chance for me to catch my breath, grab a drink or anything. I stopped riding with a group after that, I can’t deal with that sort of attitude.
It’s sad to read things like this, because it is really really hard to manage.
In the last week:
I’ve probably been the fastest/second fastest on a ride (depending on how you score the guy on a single speed because he’s clearly better than the rest of us)
And I’ve been the very obvious slowest.
Both up and down.
People will ride at different speeds climbing and descending, no issue at all with waiting for people to catch up, and I hope waiting for me hasn’t annoyed anyone else.
Some people will be running themselves to exhaustion and need a break, others will be happy (and prefer) with the group getting rolling again just as they get there.
Probably more of an issue the smaller your hills are, as there are going to be more regroup points, and more of a desire to push yourself to a sprint rather than a marathon.
one of the group said some really nasty stuff about ebikes and ebikers.
What nasty things did they say about eBikes?
it’d be “right, everyone ready? Off we go.”
Generally I've found that people are cool with "actually, could I have a few minutes?"
@dyna-ti Eco definitely makes the ride easier going than on a normal bike.
I know this because I cleaned the climb from slippery stones up over cut gate in eco. I did this whilst pretty unfit due to a health scare.
In past years when I was at my fittest and lightest I only nearly managed it once on a normal bike.
Similar trail conditions. Only explanation is the assistance in eco.
So if someone wants to as said stay with the noon Eebs, they can select eco, which is a little bit of help, but in reality as the bike itself usually weighs about 50lbs, or approximately twice that of the non eeb, it should cancel iot out and make it the equivilent of being the same same non eeb riders*
*However, due to drag from the internal cogs etc, something like Tour would probably be closer.
Suggesting that eco mode on an ebike might be harder than being on a bike stretches belief a little bit.
1. Eco. 60% input, so your effort is multiplied by about 1/2
2. Tour 140%
3. EMTB basically an automatic gearbox. Ranges from ‘tour’ at 140% to ‘Turbo’ at 340% depends on the effort youre putting in. So on a hill, it would increase from Tour to Turbo, then when it flattens out again, that assistance level would drop back to Tour.
4. Turbo 340%
Erm - isn't that 60% input meaning the bike is providing more than 50% of the required power? That to me is 100% assist. If I'm putting in 100W and the bike is putting in 100W, then the bike is giving me a 100% boost. Its providing half the required power but is doubling my input...is this wrong?
@Daffy yes incorrect. If you put in 100w bike puts in 60% which is 60w. 100+60=160w total
With Bosch it's a multiplier of what you put in, so at 100W from the rider Eco is an extra 60W and Turbo is 340W.
The feeling while riding in eco is quite subtle. A bit like just you being on top form plus maybe a bit on top of that too.
It's assisting you more than it might feels like, though (IME)
I used to think Eco on the Rail was a waste of time until I bought a KSL...
eBikes are changing the sport (a bit). Not everyone is cool with that.
Devil’s advocate: If I had a group of regular riders, and a couple of hangers-on who turn up only occasionally, but one day the hangers-on come armed with eWeapons and upset the dynamic of my usual rides, fragment the group, change the chat potential etc - I might find that a bit grating.
I’m probably too placid to get irked by these things, but I’m not sure everyone is as agreeable as me. It’s probably better to straight up tell them they’re being annoying rather than deal in backhanded comments, though.
Awesome - thank you, all.
so your effort is multiplied by about 1/2
Isn't that the Battery Dead setting?
It's simplistic, but for a 7% climb, then 200W / 10kg bike results in 11.2km/h and 320W / 20kg gives you 17.1km/h.
I don't think anybody on the planet ever said that anyone with a medical issue of any kind shouldn't ride an ebike.
So anyone posting about that - this thread clearly isn't about you.
If you are out riding with a group of mates who have a pop at you for your ebike, then they clearly don't know anything about you or actively don't like you. If it's strangers? Who cares?!
Suggesting that eco mode on an ebike might be harder than being on a bike stretches belief a little bit.
No, I think you have to take in the weight of an ebike. So work it out for yourself. If my grasp of how it works or relates to a non Ebike weighing 50+lbs is incorrect I look forward to hearing your explanation of what the percentages mean.
Thanks.
It's two posts up
So if someone wants to as said stay with the noon Eebs, they can select eco, which is a little bit of help, but in reality as the bike itself usually weighs about 50lbs, or approximately twice that of the non eeb, it should cancel iot out and make it the equivilent of being the same same non eeb riders*
Sadly that's complete bollocks. A normal fat bloke on a normal bike (100kg + 15kg) working hard at 250W. The same bloke on a 25kg ebike would need to put out a total of 271W to ascend at the same speed. With a 60% assist that's only 170W of leg power. That's a huge amount easier.
Fair enough, whatever you say.
It shouldn't be a surprise that some riders get a bit miffed with some ebikers, when they come out with "we're probably actually working *harder* than you", and then when you back up a counterclaim with numbers you just get met with complete dismissal.
I ride in a mixed group of ebikes and non-e (I'm non-e). They are expensive specialized ebikes too, not that it really matters. We've all been mates for a long time so there's a bit of jokey banter but never anything nasty. The blokes in your group just sound like arseholes, and I'd be riding with people who aren't.