Ebikes - mixed riding groups and the hatred

Raise it on whatsapp...you already wonder if there is any way back from it.....at least you'll know.

Don't ride with those people any more, then. Ride with people from that group that you like.

This always happens with groups. Friendly group ➡ more people ➡ friction ➡ yet more people ➡ critical mass ➡ massive argument ➡ schism ➡ two happy groups.

Seriously, screw 'em, life's too short. What difference does it make what someone else rides? Arseholes.

what’s the term for this

Self-deprecation. Or, humility.

Most of our group ride ebikes and the banter and ribbing has stopped long ago. Personally I don't care as it helps pace me to go faster.
They don't flag their Strava rides as assisted which non ebikers occasionally mention.

Leave the group/find some new friends to ride with.
I’m in a WhatsApp group of 9 and I’m the only one with an ebike. They’re absolutely fine with the situation. Sound like a bunch of ***kers tbh.

It your group I’m afraid. Hoping that you’ve already pointed out the SC that’s worth 2x the Ebike.

Just sounds like 5 bellends with a chip on their shoulder

They sound like right 🔔🔚s . For the last two years I have been riding my e-bike once a week with a bunch of roadies, none of whom have an e-bike or make any snidely comments (at least not in front of me!!). In fact once a year we do a memorial ride for one of the group who died a couple of years ago, just before I joined, and who at the time was also an e-bike rider.. They joke about how he used to leave them for dust on this one particular hill, his favourite, which now forms part of the memorial ride and there is a small plaque on the fence at the top of the hill. Zero malice. Some of your group sound like right ignorant arseholes.

Move on - They are not your friends- life's way too sort of any of that shite .

They don’t flag their Strava rides as assisted

Does beg the question why not? Are they embarrassed?

Seems a bit of a dick move to join a ride platform with the original focus on segments and leaderboards and then undermine it just because they don't want to change a setting?

(as you can tell it sort of bugs me but I also recognise my lowly standing on any significant leaderboard is going to be unaffected by a few assisted bikers 😂)

Ask when the next ride is...if anyone replies positively, go ride with them.

Or leave the group and find a new group of riders that don't seem as unfriendly.

Clearly not great friends just do what I do ride by yourself or other E-Bikers.

OP
Shame it came to a head, but it sounds like you need to find another group.
I help out with an mtb beginners group, it's very mtb lite and we get all sorts of riders and bikes turning up.The only time we have a (very light hearted) go at the Ebikers, is when we have to lift their bikes over gates.😉😊

Offer to set up a crowd fund type thing so that they can buy e-bikes too

its not a reflection of owning and riding an e-bike but the people in the group. We all ride together for fun, as they they say when the fun stops... Stop.

Clearly some ebike riders can be plebs too.

Go for a ride with them. Roost past them multiple times on the eeb whilst laughing and pointing at them.
Then only ride with your ebike mate. You will get more riding in and less waiting at the top of climbs.

I have not ridden in a group of mixed conventional and ebikes but can imagine that it could be difficult for everyone to get the most enjoyment out of the rides.

Riding an ebike completely transforms the riding experience so are you sure that you are not having a big impact on the other guys enjoyment? Having someone breeze past me on climbs and then waiting impatiently for me to catch up would be pretty frustrating. I'm not saying that this is what you are doing but it might be worth considering if it is a factor.

If you want to maintain the friendships then maybe you could do rides where the ebike difference is not such a factor? - an uplift day might work well?

Seems like they're dicks with some of their own issues. Banter is a two-way street, if they're just rounding on you relentlessly it's probably time to find a group on the same wavelength.

I ride with people on EEBs and it's a laugh, the piss-taking is two way and without a hint of malice and we're all stoked to be out on bikes.

It shouldn't be hard work.

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Just done a lakes ride with me on a borrowed ebike every one had fun no one got dropped.

No falling outs...

To paraphrase goldie lookin chain

Ebikes don't cause an issue ****s do...

They sound like dicks. Some ebike riders a dicks. If you think they're dicks move on

Riding uphill on a non-ebike is hard. It can be real suffering. But if you're sharing that experience with other people, then as a shared experience it makes it lighter, mentally, all round.

You're not sharing that experience with someone who has a motor. I can easily imagine that it could take your mind away from that shared experience and make you feel a bit jealous, and subsequently, like shit.

You can't help how you feel. So if that's how riding with ebikers feels to some people, then the natural thing to do would be to stick to an analogue group.

It's shit if you've been friends with these people for a long time. Try asking them if that's ultimately the reason why they feel like that. Glib jokes and "lulz, easy for me" might really rub someone who's suffering up the wrong way.

I don't ride with ebikers. My mates all suffer on analogue bikes. One of them (the least fit of us, who can't be arsed putting in the miles) is thinking of getting an ebike. One of the group said something along the lines of "if you do then ride it on your own" to him.

I totally get why my friend wants an ebike. But I totally understand why the other said that...

I guess a lot of it is about courtesy - when I’m out with the roadies I ride only in ECO mode which means the hills can be hard. I do this on purpose and often won’t overtake for exactly the reasons Chevy says - I don’t want to demoralise anyone struggling. I deliberately don’t breeze up the hills in Turbo and wait impatiently at the top for everyone to catch up. I’m not interested in being 1st and I ride for the exercise (yes yes I know you get more exercise without the motor etc etc  but I’ve got a knackered knee). Often the fitter ones will beat me up the hills anyway. Riding courteously I minimise the risks of rubbing them up the wrong way. Worth noting I suppose that my group is a very mixed age range and is both male and female - not sure why that matters. but I reckon a group of overly competitive males would have a very different dynamic. 🤷‍♂️

Exactly the same as you oceanskipper.
Only ride in eco when out with mates and I make sure I'm in the middle of the group on climbs.

Ah I see your riding buddy has just arrived peter1979.
Left a shitty comment them deleted it.

I ride with a weekly mtb group at night in winter in the FofD. Sometimes someone rides an e-bike. No one minds or even really mentions it. I think the real bike riders secretly feel sorry for the e-bike rider, but there’s no ribbing or judgement.

I wouldn’t want to go out with a group where e-bikes formed more than half. They should go off and form their own group if that’s their thing. It’s a different sport to real bike riding.

Thing is though, I reckon it is a bit rude to show up to a group ride that had previously all been bikes on an ebike, regardless of being in eco or not. I mean, I'd want to make sure that everyone was okay with it first (and really okay with it, not "um, okay, sure") - your group obviously wasn't okay with it.

Obviously that doesn't make their response okay - but hopefully understandable.

We go out in a mixed group of mates...varying numbers of ebikes and normal bikes. Everyone takes the p@#s....everyone laughs....we're mates, that's what mates do.
I'd just mention that you love them and all that, but if things keep getting petty and nasty you're going to find some other mates who are a bit more grown up.

Why would people feel sorry for an e-bike rider? How odd. Also what’s real about a bike with without motor? Odd way of describing an old fashioned, standard bike. Surely they should be “unreal man” anyway, shouldn’t they, as they’re so hardcore an’ all. 😎😂

But I totally understand why the other said that…

So do I, it’s because they’re a dick

It sounds like there's a few people who need better friends and even more who should be better friends.

So do I, it’s because they’re a dick

I think it's okay to want to keep rides as not ebikes only. Same as "please don't turn up on a unicycle" or "please can you service your bike before next time so we don't have all of the mechanicals".

So long as people are on the same kind of pace & technical ability I don't really see how it matters what you are riding?

I'm totally happy to ride on a normal bike with someone on an ebike if they slow up on the climbs (or at least are happy to wait at the top!)

I'm totally happy to ride on an ebike with people on normal bikes and to just potter along.

As above, sounds like you need a new riding group.

@colp:

So do I, it’s because they’re a dick

Ebike or not - the inability to see things from other people's perspectives is the fastest way to get ejected from our group.

Why would people feel sorry for an e-bike rider?

Because it’s a trail ride with a sprint race at the end and the object is to rasp your lungs out and make your legs tremble. We do it because we like haring around the woods in the dark, gasping up hills with downhills as relief and reward for the hard work. You earn your pint in the Fountain. Using an e-bike kind of misses the point.

so those of you that think that ebikers should ride in their own groups what about if you have a fit racing snake and an old fat pootler in the same group?  Same issue arises.

so those of you that think that ebikers should ride in their own groups what about if you have a fit racing snake and an old fat pootler in the same group?

Not really a problem, no one minds waiting for different abilities. In my group there’s 30 year old racing snakes and 70 year old guys. What they share is the desire to ride in the same way, so perhaps pootlers need not apply.

Having someone breeze past me on climbs and then waiting impatiently for me to catch up would be pretty frustrating.

That was me on group rides generally, long before e-bikes were a thing. It can be frustrating if you're bringing up the rear guard because by the time you get to the top the fit riders have all had a nice rest and are ready to set off again.

It's funny really. When someone is the fastest rider they're all "sure, we'll wait for the slowest, it's absolutely fine. Never leave a man behind." But when the tables are turned and the former whippets are suddenly being left for dead on climbs by e-bikers saying exactly the same thing - "it's OK mate we'll wait for you" - it's suddenly a problem?

But when the tables are turned and the former whippets are suddenly being left for dead on climbs by e-bikers saying exactly the same thing – “it’s OK mate we’ll wait for you” – it’s suddenly a problem?

I guess its because those whippets have had to work for it?
Not sure there is a clear answer. I wouldnt go riding with a bunch of whippets on the grounds it would likely be a crap ride for all of us (there is a reason why those roadie clubs tend to have different groups for rides) and I couldnt blame them for being irritated if someone turns up battery powered.
Guess the trick is either to dial it back or figure out a route where pure power just means getting close and intimate with a tree.

@chevychase

In your anecdote you talked about “mates”, but mate 2 seems perfectly happy to banish mate 1 for wanting to ride an ebike as he’s struggling to keep up. Do you really know the reasons why “he can’t be arsed to put the miles in”?
So mate 2 in my opinion is a dick.

If mate 2 wasn’t a dick I’d expect him to say something like “good idea mate 1, we don’t want to lose you from the group as we’re all mates so crack on and sort an ebike”

OP, it's not you (and your e-mate) it's the rest of 'em.

This polarisation of all issues rather than compromise and nuance being the norm seems to be bleeding over from social media to real life, I'm very grateful that me and my mates can cheerfully disagree about things without getting shirty.

I guess its because those whippets have had to work for it?

So, what, it's simply jealousy? Either they don't want an e-bike in which case "working for it" is their choice; or they do want an e-bike but don't have one.

Is this a world away from single-speeders sneering at those johnny-come-latelys with their "gears"?

Not sure there is a clear answer. I wouldnt go riding with a bunch of whippets on the grounds it would likely be a crap ride for all of us

Honestly, it's why I never went back to the MNPR rides after my first one. I felt so... embarrassed about my lack of match fitness, I felt massively guilty for holding everyone else up.

He's not saying don't show up, though, he's saying don't show up on an ebike.

If the first guy was saying "I'm only happy to continue riding with you lot if I'm on an ebike" it would be one thing, but I didn't really get that impression.

But when the tables are turned and the former whippets are suddenly being left for dead on climbs by e-bikers saying exactly the same thing – “it’s OK mate we’ll wait for you” – it’s suddenly a problem?

Well, how would you feel if people started showing up on those no pedal throttle bikes? (Sur Ron's, I think?). I can see both sides of this, it does seem a little off to be irked by the dynamic change - but having electric assistance also doesn't feel like the same activity.

Oddly, I think my issue is more that the implied dynamic becomes "oh, you're a slower rider, you should get an ebike to ride with us" - that's definitely a view I've heard spoken, and that I totally disagree with.

So, what, it’s simply jealousy?

I doubt it and that comes across as a variant on the highly dubious politics of envy line.
E-bikes do change the balance of a ride and I think it where do individuals draw the line.
I think most people on the thread would agree someone turning up on a sur-ron or similar would be taking the piss a bit to much.
Then it comes down to where on that sliding scale do you decide you are no longer doing the same activity?

Since the OP says things changed over time I am curious as to what drove that change. Since they say its only occasional riding did something else piss off the other riders to make them loath ebikes in general?

@colp (and @tjagain) - see my point above about shared experience.

I'm also with @supernova on performance differences - if I'm out with someone who's much better than me that's a motivation for me to push myself harder, to improve.

Ain't like that with someone on an ebike. On long hard days when your willpower is low and you're suffering, it's easy to see how that could be demotivational.

@aidy

He’s not saying don’t show up, though, he’s saying don’t show up on an ebike.

Yep. 100%.

I think I shall join chevy on a group ride - bring along my ebike then just pootle along slower than everyone 🙂

But tj, then you won’t have earned a beer cos you haven’t rasped your lungs out.

Some of my friends have both ebikes and normal bikes. They never bring their ebikes along to ride with those without. Maybe it's just that they have a better sense of self-awareness.

I have to say being serious I don't think ebikes and non ebikes mix on a group ride.  Same as if you have very mixed ability groups.  Its best when you are all at a similar pace.

As I said before it’s about mostly about courtesy. It does also depend on the average ability of the whole group I think and whether or not it’s billed as a ‘no drop’ ride ie everyone welcome. E-bikes in a group ride are a useful way for people to keep up on a ride they wouldn’t otherwise go on but shouldn’t IMO be used to get everywhere first. Again, courtesy.

As I said before it’s about mostly about courtesy.

Agreed - but I think that extends to asking ahead of time if it's cool bring your ebike.

Is it the bikes or are they just a catalyst for the inevitable?

The non ebikers live much further south than me and my friend and we only really ride with them a occasionally but we’ve been mates for 10 years or so tho.

I had a group of riding mates that grew up around mid week pre-work rides. As the group expanded three guys joined that don't have regular jobs (one's retired). They've all become (to my mind) very serious about improving their riding to the point that as much as i like them all I really don't like riding with them any more. I'm 30kg heavier than them, only ride one type of bike and do it for fun and fitness. They all have at least three types of bike plus Zwift setups. I can keep up with them to a point at most of our tracks, but over a big day i'm pushing a couple of zones higher than they are and end up getting ratty - which isn't fun.

So i'll let the group slide and maybe there'll be another one some time. Sounds like you should too, and perhaps find a posse of e-bikers. What is the collective noun for a group of e-bikers anyway? A whine?

They don’t flag their Strava rides as assisted which non ebikers occasionally mention.

That is a dick move, though. How hard is it to choose the right activity type?

(I did take a e-bike kom on a gravel bike, which I thought was funny, but apparently e-bikers disagreed with)

A guy i know that used to ride an e-bike on club rides (how annoying listening to the motor whining behind you on a singletrack climb) never used to choose ebike on Strava.

Worse is that he now doesn't ride a bike at all... but he puts his electric scooter rides on Strava as ebike rides! Seriously. I may as well start recording my drive to work or school pick-ups and record them as kite-surfing!

I've experienced it from both ends of the argument.

Several years ago, all of our group rode neebs. All of us were different levels of fitness but one of the group was particularly far below the fitness/ability level of the rest.

Long story short, he ended up being persuaded by the rest of us mainly, to get an eeb.

It was a game changer straight away and it meant he was riding with us instead of us waiting forever on the climbs, getting cold etc.

Most of the group rides were winch and plummet type rides, but I did a lot of xc style riding too with it being just us two, where he would bring his eeb also.
Not a huge problem most of the time. I'm known for my tolerance 😊

But having that constant light whirr behind you while you're killing yourself up a big climb, the rider chatting away to you without a care in the world, did get on my nerves a bit, but it was fine, as you were outdoors with a mate and as a whole, that was great.

I always felt a bit like when you're cycling up a steep hill on the road and a car comes up behind and can't/won't pass so sits on your back wheel, you can hear the engine and you feel this pressure and it's not nice. It felt like that to me, but as I say, it's a mate so meh.

About a year and a half ago I got an eeb myself. All our riding group come from a DH background so are well used to assisted climbs and pushing up etc. The eeb was going to(and does amazingly well) make our style of riding increase.

I now only take the eeb on big elevation days or winch and plummet tracks and only with other eebers or alone, don't ride xc on it, I ride one of my other bikes, but I wouldn't dream of riding the eeb with a group on neebs. I'd feel like a dick, even riding at the back. I'd feel like I was adding pressure to the grind of a climb for others. I'm too self conscious.

I remember a day in the Fod that must have been the turning point when a couple of lads we'd not seen for ages turned up on eebs on a winch and plummet ride. (They had a mate with them who was on a neeb but climbed as if he was on an eeb, but by the by) I was steadily dying on the main climb as I always do, and one of them was just whirring away next to me chatting freely. I really wanted him to bugger off! 😂
You could see then that the tide was about to change amongst us.

I think they can be a fantastic leveller in a group where you have a chronically slow climber but the others all have to be OK with it.

I think with us, we much preferred the one mate getting an eeb as that meant we no longer had to wait as long at the tops getting cold and bored. If others had started getting them (and they did eventually). It changes the dynamic and the group should probably split.

Sounds like you maybe ought to start/find a new group op. 'Reading the room' , it seems that way anyway.

Definitely new mates time.

I've just bought a new Edit frame so I'm commited but it does all feel like death by a thousand paper cuts, as one by one you hear of riding buddies succumbing. For the moment I still have plenty of riders to play out with, thankfully.

I have one good friend with an eeb. If we ride together I just take a tow rope.

I wouldn't dream of riding with a group of them, no pleasure in that. In fact, only yesterday, I bumped into a local shredder who was suffering this problem. His mates have all gone down that route, so rides have just become sufferfests for him.

No point hanging out with *s. I actually prefer riding alone because it's impossible to find a group that can ride at a similar speed, plus you always get the situation where people bring their mates along and they turn out to be *s and just ruin it for anyone who doesn't share their idea of what's fun.

Long story short, he ended up being persuaded by the rest of us mainly, to get an eeb.

See, imo, that's not cool.

Long story short, he ended up being persuaded by the rest of us mainly, to get an eeb.

See, imo, that’s not cool.

No, you see it was cool. Up until then, he'd essentially be riding on his own to all intents and purposes. He wasn't enjoying it, everyone else was becoming frustrated (in winter mainly) , but of course we waited for him. It was the same for years. He's a mate, we always waited.

But when he himself started noticing eebs, I guess some of us kind of encouraged that interest as none of us thought we'd ever get one, but knew that if he did, it would mean we'd actually enjoy his company on a ride throughout, rather than just seeing him at the start, end, and tops of the climbs, where inevitably others would be eager to drop in, and he'd be dying or would very often sit out a run.
With the eeb he never sat a run out.

You needn't try to turn it into a negative. It wasn't.
He's a mate.

Honestly, it’s why I never went back to the MNPR rides after my first one. I felt so… embarrassed about my lack of match fitness, I felt massively guilty for holding everyone else up.

You should get an emtb, they're great! 🙂

Local mtb club to me, a handful of the riders have e bikes. Works well, helps them up the hills to keep up with everyone else, and toward the end of the ride when they'd probably be flagging - we all got back together. They never 'power off away' with them. It's just about use case really isn't it

Similarly in my road club. There's a chap that has been riding to a 'high level' his whole life. Is starting to come up against injury and pain now and is generally slowing. At a point where a lot of the club rides are all now really strong - what with Zwift all winter and good chaingangs all summer. This guy who was once the 'fast guy' in the club is now on the back foot. (age sucks!!!!) At some point, an e-road bike will let him keep up with the rides without absolutely destroying his back.

But when he himself started noticing eebs, I guess some of us kind of encouraged that interest

Yeah, that's fair enough. First phrasing read more like being nagged into getting one.

👍😊 Nah. Nobody is like that.

Well, how would you feel if people started showing up on those no pedal throttle bikes?

I'd think "what difference does it make to me?" To which the answer is, "none whatsoever," if they want to zoom off ahead then good luck to them (so long as I'm not reliant on them for directions).

having electric assistance also doesn’t feel like the same activity.

E-bikes do change the balance of a ride

Perhaps. But again - so what? If the e-bikes want to tear off in an antisocial manner then that's their choice, see you at the pub in half an hour lads. If they want to pootle alongside the regular bikes (which is how it sounds in the OP's case) then so what if they're in 'easy mode,' whining about that is nothing more than sour grapes.

If a group of 'friends' aren't getting along on a group ride then the problem isn't the choice of bike.

It don't think it matters whether it's an e- or std bike. We've always had gaps in speed up or downhill and ability of rider and bike, and the vast majority of riders aren't dicks about it.

This polarisation of all issues rather than compromise and nuance being the norm seems to be bleeding over from social media to real life

This is it.
*Leans back in rocking chair* "BITD we used to race XC and DH in the same weekend..."

Riding uphill on a non-ebike is hard. It can be real suffering. But if you’re sharing that experience with other people, then as a shared experience it makes it lighter, mentally, all round.

You’re not sharing that experience with someone who has a motor. I can easily imagine that it could take your mind away from that shared experience and make you feel a bit jealous, and subsequently, like shit.

It might if you were fixated on the differences in that way and prone to negativity. What if it's just chat at the top about whether we each got over that rooty step up or not this time, and how an e-bike or an unpowered HT has + and - in those situations, a bit of banter about whether the bike is the excuse today or not, etc? It's just riding bikes, no need for it to get so serious.

As an aside, I don't care about speed, effort or cost discrepancies, but I do find the motor noise intrusive, particularly en masse.

It’s just riding bikes, no need for it to get so serious.

Just about sums it up for me.
A couple of mates make their living from riding bikes and can leave the rest of the group for dead whatever bikes we're all on at the time. We all have Eebs and Neebs. And yes you can get left for dead even when we're all on Eebs.
But we're all mates so that doesn't happen on group rides because we're all just enjoying being out and riding [b]together[/b].

It’s just riding bikes, no need for it to get so serious.

agree, some of these group rides sound awful.

we had mixed ebike and bike rides for a while - it was fine - the ebikes either rode along side or waited at the top, or got 2 or more downhills in while the normal bikes made their way up. Dont think anyone had any issue with it.

Everyones got ebikes now though....

Its a shame it's come to that for you OP.

I'm the only e-biker on our Wednesday night rides, not had it long.

The other guys are very strong, fit riders and it used to be the case that I was pretty much riding on my own all night. They'd always wait for me and didn't seem to mind, well more than that they always encouraged me to keep coming out...they're a decnt set of blokes like that.

Now that I've got the e-bike, I can just keep in in ECO and actually ride with them. It's been a game changer in terms of enjoyment. Yes they make jokes, but in a light-hearted fun way, not a snide way. They don't seem to mind the noise of my motor.

I always used to be the fat bloke at the back, coughing my lungs up on the climbs and yes, the whippets did wait for me at the top, but only until I got to them. Then then were rested and ready to go right away while I was trying to reinsert my lungs into my chest cavity. Then I got an eeb and after the first couple of "weeee isn't this ace" turbo rides I backed off and ride with the group. A couple of others in the group are recent converts and went through the same process and all is well with the group because ATEOTD, we're all out to have a good time.

I occasionally ride with another group that's now all eebs but back when I was the only one cheating one of the whippets used to ask me to pace him on the climbs; he'd set the speed he wanted to go and I'd just sit in Turbo along side him.

They don’t seem to mind the noise of my motor.

I wouldn't either. Better than the sound of someone

coughing my lungs up on the climb

; )

1) What Cougar said ... minus fancy HTML stuff

This always happens with groups. Friendly group ➡ more people ➡ friction ➡ yet more people ➡ critical mass ➡ massive argument ➡ schism ➡ two happy groups.

2) Regardless IMHO it's up to the eMTB riders to adapt as its that changing the group dynamic

3) "What to expect" - ride planning etc. (eMTB/real bike needs to be considered)

4) not being a vibrator (eDick) (I just made that up but seems fitting)

I'm part of a few groups of various sizes.. including splinter groups and splinter groups of splinter groups and I also ride a fairly wide range of MTB from DJ - XC - DH - "f***king about in the woods with mates" and beginner to pretty hardcore before getting a beer and own a eMTB as well as real bikes

#3 is absolutely key.... if people don't know what to expect and the ride isn't planned to consider skill/riding/fitness and ASSISTANCE the chance of some of the group having a shit time is high. The E amplifies this.

I recently(ish) went on something billed "HC HT" ... mis-described and absolute shit. People were dropping out after 30 minutes... the route studiously avoided riding anything worth riding and it's now used as a joke in a splinter group.

Basically a series of climbs then take a fireroad decent to avoid the actual trail setting of 10 seconds before the poor bastards finding it difficult actually get to the top ... and refusing to say where to meet.. (I'd have happily guided the ones struggling and let the 3-4 out of 15 go do an extra bit)

When you add in the eMTB aspect IMHO its much more important to plan and make people aware of what the ride entails.
Setting off when the exhausted riders get to the top is a shit trick...

As I'm also unofficial mechanic I get lots of requests for stuff as well and I'll tell people to arrive a suitable time in advance.. or just ask them to check basic stuff and/or buy spares before they arrive so I know what to expect (example "can you bleed my brakes before the ride" ... I'll ask them to check the pads and have spares if required... ) Some then seem put out when I won't start late and hold up everyone else or why I don't want to give them a spare set of pads when they couldn't be arsed checking. (It's not like I'm charging and I'm arriving early) or leave 30 mins for me to change their fork travel, expect to use my oil etc.

So I recently left a group because of a couple of things....but mostly people trying to manipulate others into a ride for them through deception.

1) Trying to get real bike riders to make up numbers for accommodation on a Wales trip but not telling them everyone signed up do far is on a eBike
2) mis-describing trip in other ways (calling Dyfi Forest a bike park)
3) Hiding costs ... hiding sleeping arrangements etc. (yeah so he gets a double room to himself)

Same group one of the group had asked if anyone wanted to show her and the kids round SHills (she doesn't know it well enough to guide the kids)... its a 2 hour drive for her and teenage kids so I suggested a 10:00 start (which meant a different car park)... another mate decided it would be ideal for his lad (who is a handful) given the other rider is professionally qualified to deal with the handful lad it would have all been great THEN someone hijacked the ride. 0800 start... and my mate with the handful asked if he could meet later .. and was told "leave him in the van with an XBOX"

Anyway I left the group and had a load of people asking me "why" and "come back" including the person made the leave the kid guy comment - the Wales trip guy kept asking me "are you coming to Wales" - I kept saying no not on a mixed group and he said "but you have an eBike why would you care?" and others were "lets do another splinter group"...

Amazingly I went for a drink after the ride with someone who is outside the "messenger group" but joins us on a few rides and she said "Why doesn't <<that bloke>> get an eBike ... all he does is moan on the climbs AND whenever he sees an eBike... (doesn't even need to be in the group) - Same bloke I had to apologise to the trail pixies for after he was mumbling about "them hanging about on the trail and ruining it for everyone" within earshot.

but basically the reason I left is people trying to manipulate others into doing the ride suits them resulting in 1/2 the group having a shit day... ironically the "leave the kid" guy is the one moans at every climb AND whenever he see's an eBike and seems to have no idea that hijacking a "ride with kids" and turning it into what he wanted is breaking rule #1.

@peter1979

I guess the point is its probably 1-2 out of the entire group leading this sentiment and the others are more going along with it because they are bullies. (I'd guess they are the ones like beasting the others on climbs)
Why not arrange a "mixed ride" with a couple of them and say you are sick of the crap... and its ruining your day and if its just a couple of you you'll take a tow rope.

At the same time I think you need to be sensitive as the "others" probably don't want to swap one beasting for another?

“can you bleed my brakes before the ride”

Our regular group that we ride with in the FOD is a mix between eeb and non eeb and it's all good fun and no one cares what you ride. As long as you're good fun then who cares.

Because it’s a trail ride with a sprint race at the end and the object is to rasp your lungs out and make your legs tremble. We do it because we like haring around the woods in the dark, gasping up hills with downhills as relief and reward for the hard work. You earn your pint in the Fountain. Using an e-bike kind of misses the point.

It sounds very manly and virile, I can see where you're coming from. But for me having a pint after exercise misses the point even more.

It just goes to show we all have different perspectives.

By and large I don't think ebikes mix well with acoustic ones.

The other guys are very strong, fit riders and it used to be the case that I was pretty much riding on my own all night. They’d always wait for me and didn’t seem to mind, well more than that they always encouraged me to keep coming out…they’re a decnt set of blokes like that.

Now that I’ve got the e-bike, I can just keep in in ECO and actually ride with them. It’s been a game changer in terms of enjoyment. Yes they make jokes, but in a light-hearted fun way, not a snide way. They don’t seem to mind the noise of my motor.

Likewise. You get a mix of abilities but particularly in the winter it can be more of the fitter stronger ones and while there's no question of people waiting etc it's not so fun to be flogging yourself to keep up at the back or think you're holding people up. emtb in eco means I can stay in the middle of the group, still get a workout, actually get to chat (it is a social ride after all), and the group as a whole can go a bit quicker.

The group has a "ebikes are fine but don't be a dick" rule which works.

It sounds very manly and virile, I can see where you’re coming from. But for me having a pint after exercise misses the point even more.

Its not macho in any way, it’s just a group who likes to ride in that way, who relish the strenuous exercise in that setting but aren’t doing it to become elite athletes, so we happily drink pints afterwards. Anyone who likes riding that way is welcome, whether they’re fast or slow, it’s making the effort we enjoy!

Anyone who likes riding that way is welcome, whether they’re fast or slow, it’s making the effort we enjoy! As long as they don’t have an e-bike. 

FIFY!

This is a really interesting read. I've just got one as I've slipped from right in the mid-pack to the fat guy totally unable to keep up. Had a bad run of training and general laziness last year so was really struggling to get back on the training needed to get back up to speed so bought an e-bike, started looking at short travel FS as my back couldn't take the HT any more but it snowballed from there.

It's taken me from well off the back to sitting with the fastest climber in eco mode. I very rarely blast up hills in a higher mode and usually just sit in the group. If I'm out with a less fit group I'll be on my normal bike again.

Interesting to see how that can still be annoying to groups despite getting fitter myself through riding more (until the last few weekends) and not causing so much waiting around on winter rides.

Not electric bike related, but I used to ride as part of a group/team for quite some time, things got toxic, there was always someone talking about someone else behind their backs, so I gave up and left the group and stopped following them all on all social media. A couple of years later I happened to look on the team's website and they were still exchanging nasty comments about me and my family.

I think it is just people, as sad as it is – some people get older but don't grow up and keep with the playground bullying attitude.

It’s taken me from well off the back to sitting with the fastest climber in eco mode. I very rarely blast up hills in a higher mode and usually just sit in the group. If I’m out with a less fit group I’ll be on my normal bike again.

Interesting to see how that can still be annoying to groups

good to see you've integrated nicely and non-dickishly into a group of non-ebikes, so you are clearly doing it right.

but what does the new slowest person think about all this?