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Hi
I want to take my 12-yr old to BPW, but he wants to use his e-bike. There is a note on their web site which states:
“To ride an E-bike you must be 14 years of age or older by UK law.”
The Cycling UK web site says:
"the law states you must be 14 years of age or over to ride an e-bike on public roads. However, someone under 14 can ride an e-bike off road."
The only reference to this I can find is the Road Traffic Act (RTA) which states you must be at least 14 to ride on the road. I queried BPW and they said:
"This law does apply to our park. The park is owned by Natural Resources Wales, and has public bridleways and fire roads, therefore governed by the laws of the highway. In order to ride an E-Bike at the park you must be 14 years old or older."
I can't find a definition of what constitues a road under the RTA, but cannot believe it includes bridleways and fireroads, otherwise there's not much that would consitiute "offroad" if these were excluded.
Does anyone know or understand the legal basis for what BPW are saying?
Many thanks
"Off road" generally means on privately owned land... and with landowner's permission of course.
Don't take the ebike and have a good day or don't go...their rules and they've stated them on website and confirmed to you.
I'm one of the baffled people who can't work out why healthy kids need an ebike, hence my suggestion.
Does anyone know or understand the legal basis for what BPW are saying?
Their park, their rules.
Their insurers too.
I looked into this for coaching/guiding for a friend and the underlying law is not totally clear on the road Vs. Off road element (unless some clarity has been added). It was our conclusion therefore that interpretation as no under 14s was the best policy as it prevents you ending up on the wrong side if something should happen. I guess BPW has the same idea.
“Off road” generally means on privately owned land… and with landowner’s permission of course.
This.
Their park, their rules.
And very much this.
Well, in this case, it's because I had a knee replacement 4 months ago. I'm not ready to hit the bike parks on a manual bike and he doesn't want to get left behind. Also, we want to do BPW, Afan and FlyUp 417 back to back, given they're all the other side of the country for us.
Also, where we are, you can't go anywhere without using bridleways, so irrespective of BPW's rules, I wanted to understand what the actual law was.
Seems like a pretty simple 'take a tow rope'situation. 🙂
“the law states you must be 14 years of age or over to ride an e-bike on public roads."
It may or may not have anything to do with it but the uplift road (and presumably others) within Bike Park Wales have some sort of public highway classification - hence the vans needing to be MOT'ed and have tachos. (This is info from an uplift driver - may be total bollox).
Just alter his DOB on his passport so he's 14.
Children aged over 14 years are allowed to ride e-bikes anywhere normal pedal bicycles are allowed (i.e. roads, bridleways, national forests and trail centres). They must not be ridden on pavements.
Children below this age limit are allowed to ride e-bikes on bridleways and on private land with the land owners permission.
They are not allowed to ride them on the road, on pavements or in the national forests (including trail centres).
Source
Public rights of way are vaguely classed as the highway and therefore basically roads... It's all legal waffle from the days before cars.
Ultimately if BPW say no ebikes are allowed, that is their rule of entry and it doesn't need any legal basis.
The reasoning behind it is almost certainly going to be related in some part to what they have specified to their insurance providers. I expect some element of this is down to the fact there is a publicly accessible car park.
I'm just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.
Can we confirm that it's just kids on ebikes we're outraged by? Or is it also kids being towed, kids in uplift vehicles and/or kids using chairlifts etc?
I for one am now going to insure that my kids skin up mountains if they get to go skiing in future.
It's an uplift, why would he be "left behind" on a non-ebike - or is it you're not prepared to wait for him?
And TBH when I took my kids riding when they were younger I always preferred them in front of me, especially when descending.
Another confused person here....are you riding up rather than uplifting? If you're uplifting then how will he be left behind? Caveat here is that I have neither kids nor an ebike. Do people really take ebikes on an uplift? ?
My initial reaction to kids that age on eMTBs was a WTF.
Then I thought about it some more. I suppose my initial reaction probably comes from how I used a bike as a kid. And also the price. But....In the world of winch and plummet riding I guess it's no different to an adult doing the same. It's basically a different pastime. Or if not a different one a sufficiently different attitude to the same pastime that it might as well be a different one - and that's regardless of age. But kids ride MX bikes and no one gets snippy that they are not pushing them to keep fit. The cost is a bit scary - part of being a kid is trashing stuff because they know no better. Or at best being mildly abusive. But if parents are sufficiently flush or indulgent....Plenty of other sports with expensive kit....struggling to think of anything as expensive as an eMTB - sailing maybe could be if you sailed to right boat.
This bit made no sense though...
I’m not ready to hit the bike parks on a manual bike and he doesn’t want to get left behind
You kid got an eMTB because when you got yours you couldn't bare to slow down a bit so he could keep up on a conventional bike?
I'd imagine young Dobbin in a field up the road is easily as expensive as a bike
A young potential trail advocate/riding buddy getting outside and riding rather than stuck to a screen? How could that not be a good thing?
We need all the friends we can get, let's not pull that gatekeeping nonsense, eh?
Some weird responses, ebikes are fun, kids love fun, you see youngsters on ebikes at windhill, FoD, etc, they are out in the open and using energy, most have other hobbies, or stuff that gets them cardio, it could be worse, they could be on sur-ron!
As for the original question, others have answered it, it's Ts and Cs for BPW and it'll be the same at 417, they have a legal requirement so will not be able to say anything but this, your options are manual bike and uplift, or turn up with ebikes and potentially be turned away, i'm not sure of their vetting for this stuff, only ever gone with the manual for uplifts, and i'm way past being age checked!
So its ok when you are a fat middle aged man to sit in the back of a truck that causes loads of environmental damage that takes you to the top of a trail so you can just ride down with ease, rather than riding up?
But a kid who is prepared to cycle up is somehow wrong ???
Yes I would be a little concerned if a 12/14 yr old road nothing but an ebike but this isnt that. This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people
As for the original question, others have answered it, it’s Ts and Cs for BPW and it’ll be the same at 417
Actually its probably not. The issue is with public forests, and whether they are classified as roads (the access and fire-roads etc.). BPW exists within a publicly owned forest, whereas I believe 417 is on private land. The rules would be different as I understand it.
You see loads of kids on e-bikes at bpw - a lot clearly under 14. If the rule is there it’s not being policed.
Ultimately if BPW say no ebikes are allowed, that is their rule of entry and it doesn’t need any legal basis.
This. Their park, their rules and any Road Traffic Act stuff around what does and does not constitute "a highway" is irrelevant.
I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.
Used to get similar comments at circuit races when kids started turning up with Di2 - often hand-me-down stuff from a parent's bike rather than brand new but still, electronic gears for 12 year olds?! But actually it makes a lot of sense. Kids have less grip power and hand strength than adults so a system that minimises reach and stretch to change gears is perfect. Especially lower level groupsets - Tiagra and Sora were well known for requiring significant lever throw to change gear which young/small hands often struggled with.
Same with an e-bike - if it allows a kid to do some reasonable climbs rather than just pottering around the green route then great stuff! I've been MTBing with my young nieces a few times and they rapidly get tired, they're bored of the limited options on the basic family trails and would love to be out for a bit longer. Many adults on e-bikes are using them for exactly that purpose!
Actually its probably not. The issue is with public forests, and whether they are classified as roads (the access and fire-roads etc.). BPW exists within a publicly owned forest, whereas I believe 417 is on private land. The rules would be different as I understand it.
As others say, the public vs private argument isn't the issue, BPW and 417 are businesses that have to follow all relevant legislation and laws, and their insurers will require them to stipulate this, and any other caveats within their Ts and Cs, they'll both have specific rules, otherwise you could just rock up to 417 with an 8 year old on a surron, as it's not illegal to do so on private land, unless the landowner does not provide permission (buy a ticket and adhere to the Ts and Cs).
This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people
Is it any wonder there is so much hate for cyclists amongst the general population when we don't seem to like each other very much? The above might be true if all BPW users were one dimensional drones who never do any other form of recreation or physical activity. Like a lot of people I suspect, I pedal up hills and ride in the woods on a human powered bike most of the time. I also go to the gym, run and enjoy other physical stuff. I also enjoy an occasional uplift day at BPW or elsewhere because it's a lot of fun. From observation and chatting to people on the uplift bus, I think the vast majority of people who go there are similar. If you're looking for "lazy people", a Bike Park is not going to be a target rich environment ime.
do 8 runs flat out at BPW and tell me you're lazy 😀
Uplift days are WELL easy. I always come away from one thinking 'i should have booked a whole week here, it's just riding down hills.'
*Insert 'tell me you've never done x without telling me you've never done x' trope*
Anyone who does my hobby different to me is wrong.
do 8 runs flat out at BPW and tell me you’re lazy 😀
Yep. I forgot to add, of all the outdoor stuff I do, nothing leaves my whole body as battered and aching all over for days afterwards as a full day at BPW! Being 60 and having more enthusiasm than skill doesn't help!
I'll admit I'm biased as I got Hoppy jr a Levo SL in the summer and he's just now turned 13. It's been transformative for his riding both what he'll do and how keen he is to do it.
Before he would come out riding but he wasn't motivated to do it, and doing rides we'd be restricted on distance as there was only so much we could do before he got worn down. We were riding a couple of times a month generally. I could tow up hills but as he got older that became less acceptable to him, and it's fine on a consistent winch but a ball ache if there were rollers, switchbacks and rocks/roots. It meant that identifying suitable routes was hard. He enjoyed the downs but not if he was knackered.
Since we got the e-bike he's keen and enthusiastic, we've generally been riding twice a week, he wants to go out (has started doing night rides with me at the local club). He can do longer rides so we only have to consider technically whether he can manage (and generally he's in a better state to ride them so can cope with harder things) so we can go to more places which makes him more enthused/interested. He now likes technical climbs, little weirdo. It's meant that we can all go out and ride as a family on decent rides, we did 50km round Ryvoan pass and Laraig Ghru in the summer, did a couple of 40km ISH days round the peaks a couple of weeks back. What would have been a whole day struggle can be done in half a day and allow him time to do the other things he enjoys.
We've always had decent bikes for him so whilst it was undoubtedly "expensive", compared to what bikes cost an end of line discounted LSL was not that horrific price wise. For what it's allowed us to do and the enthusiasm it's kindled in him it's absolutely been worth while and value for money.
I don't really understand the restriction on their use by under 14s, from a legislation point of view. I've weighed it up and decided to ignore it, he's riding with me or the mrs in a sensible manner. We've not been to BPW since we got it (makes uplifts kind of pointless anyway), but we have ridden trail centres with no issue. I accept why they are making the statement but on balance I'd probably just crack on and leave if we were asked to. Compared to some of the dickish behaviour seen in some places, a 13yo riding a lightweight e-bike with his family, whilst against the rules, isn't causing anyone any problems other than maybe raising the blood pressure of those that disagree.
Do people really take ebikes on an uplift?
Rob Warner had a vid on YouTube a while ago when he'd turned up at BPW with his ebike, sure the driver told him that loads of people (possibly half) using the uplifts were on ebikes these days. I was at Glentress with my nephew recently and their uplift van passed us several times, at least 3 ebikes on the trailer each time. Personally I wouldn't even think about it
Rob Warner had a vid on YouTube a while ago when he’d turned up at BPW with his ebike, sure the driver told him that loads of people (possibly half) using the uplifts were on ebikes these days. I was at Glentress with my nephew recently and their uplift van passed us several times, at least 3 ebikes on the trailer each time. Personally I wouldn’t even think about it
Seems pretty understandable to me. eMTBs are so expensive that I'd imagine for most people it is their only mountain bike so if you go on an uplift day it's the bike you have to take.
Why would you not take an e-bike on an uplift, if that's the bike you own? I suspect you can get more runs in on the uplift than on the e-bike.
Assuming you are using the uplift, yoi can remove the battery to satisfy the restriction?
Notice this in Finale a couple of weeks ago.
From the shuttle uplift point there were more emtbs than mtbs for the single uplift to NATO Base and Rollercoaster. Looking round our campsite there were more emtbs than mtbs and same on the campsite uplift.
Got talking to a few of the Germans on the campsite who thought it was only the British who have a problem with Emtbs
As others say, the public vs private argument isn’t the issue
Yeah it definitely is.
I don’t really understand the restriction on their use by under 14s, from a legislation point of view.
Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?
For those commenting "I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.".
I ask why? Does riding an ebike suddenly make everything super-easy - only if you put it in super-power mode all the time. You can put in just as much work effort on an ebike as a manual bike; you just go faster up the hills, can travel further (between the constant rain showers) and see more countryide. What's wrong with that?
We're prepared to ride up the hills - how many people get the uplift? Who are the lazy ones?
In my son's case he's 5'9" at 12 yrs old. He's on a adult medium frame 29" full-sus. That's not a light weight bike by any means - manual or electric. That's a lot of effort especially on a multi-day trip (as mentioned above). Kids get tired.
Before making indignant assuptions no one asked whether the ebike was a full-fat motor or a light-weight motor. It's a light weight one for the record, so only limited assistance.
Why not tow him, I was asked? And:
"You kid got an eMTB because when you got yours you couldn’t bare to slow down a bit so he could keep up on a conventional bike?"
I did mention I had a knee replacement only a few months ago. If you've not had one yet - be warned it's an 18-month recovery time. That's one of the main reasons I'm on an ebike in the first place.
Thumbs Up x 10 to Mr Hoppy's post.
I did mention I had a knee replacement only a few months ago. If you’ve not had one yet – be warned it’s an 18-month recovery time. That’s one of the main reasons I’m on an ebike in the first place.
Yes you did. But you didn't mention that your son had a knee op too.....it's why you are on an ebike but not why you can't ride slowly on it (even better for your knee) so he can keep up on a manual (with his working knees). You didn't get your lad an ebike because of your knee - you got him one because he wanted one (or you wanted him to want one) - which is fine. But not the reason you stated.
Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?
They're considered as bikes, then separately classifying them becomes open to different interpretation so I don't think it's helpful to have them separate.
They're speed limited and there is an argument that kids travelling closer to the traffic speed and not having to pedal as hard may be better as they can focus on control rather than motion.
Why would you not take an e-bike on an uplift, if that’s the bike you own?
So you’re with your, non e-bike, mates?
Did a lap of Llandegla at the weekend, and apart from me and and 5 others (after a while, I kept a score), everyone else was on e-bikes, including a dad and his son, who I reckoned was maybe 10-12 or so. They looked like they were having fun, so who am I to judge? But I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks. Must have been passed by 20-25 or so, including a couple of lads at the start of the jump line, having a sneaky fag!
I ask why? Does riding an ebike suddenly make everything super-easy – only if you put it in super-power mode all the time. You can put in just as much work effort on an ebike as a manual bike; you just go faster up the hills, can travel further (between the constant rain showers) and see more countryide. What’s wrong with that?
I can only see a couple of snarky comments, I think most people (including me) are fine with the use of e-bikes. It's great that he's out riding.
The point remains though that as per your original question of can you take him to BPW and then trying to find workarounds in the Highway Code / Road Traffic Act etc is:
No you can't (legally) take him to BPW on his e-bike and
The RTA, rules of the road, Public Rights of Way Act etc are irrelevant.
It's their (privately owned) park, it's their insurance and their rules and regulations.
But I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks.
It's also one of the easiest-to-access trail centres, within an hour's drive of Manchester, Liverpool and half of North Wales so it gets way busier than many of the other trail centres. I've been 3 or 4 times in the last year - maybe 60-70 mins drive each way but a full day of riding, no gates, walkers, horses or dogs to worry about, decent cafe, jetwash, enough riding there to keep most people occupied and content for a day.
What's not to like? Couldn't care less what bike people use - maybe they're rich show-offs or maybe they're recovering from illness or injury or have some kind of medical condition or maybe they did a full week of commuting / training on a normal bike and now just want to spin around on an e-bike? Whichever it is, most of them are friendly enough. 🙂
I did a lap of Llandegla at the weekend, and apart from me and and 5 others (after a while, I kept a score), everyone else was on e-bikes,
I was there too, on Saturday with my 34 yo son, both on non e-bikes. We saw a lot more 'Flintstone bikes' than that, but they were definitely outnumbered by e-bikes. Not an issue, everyone was having fun. And perhaps the e-bikes got 2 or 3 laps in to our 1, if so - fair play to them
I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks.
When you're riding a bike you notice ebikes, particularly on climbs they're moving faster so you get passed by them more frequently, you're moving at a more comparable pace to normal bikes so you see fewer of them.
But in what way is it less challenging? Technically it's not that demanding but there is plenty of climbing and a good chunk of it is relatively dull. It's prime e-bike territory, winch up the climb quickly and get onto the descents which whilst easy are fun enough.
For those commenting “I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.”.
I ask why?
For me, I've always found bikes to be kinda magical. Using nothing other than your own power, they multiply your natural limits many times over, and allow you to travel further under your own steam than would otherwise be possible. Bikes are also often the first real freedom that we get - and being able to places untethered from electricity, and the feeling of accomplishment for having gotten there entirely by yourself is a huge part of that. Even now, I find it enchanting that I can get on a bike and go basically *anywhere*.
It seems a shame to deprive someone of that voyage of discovery.
This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people
I'll join in with the segregating and gatekeeping with saying that if a day riding downhill does not exhaust you, you are doing it wrong.
RE ebikes on the uplift, its totally plausible that someone has only an ebike, or if someone has one of each, it would make sense that the ebike is the longer travel of the two.
One lap of BPW is 250m drop. 10 laps is easily doable without rushing and with a lunch break. Not many e-riders can get 2500m climb out of a battery.
When you’re riding a bike you notice ebikes, particularly on climbs they’re moving faster so you get passed by them more frequently, you’re moving at a more comparable pace to normal bikes so you see fewer of them.
First time i saw an ebike in the wild was going up Cafall at CwmCarn on the big climb, seen them catching me and was thinking i must be going really slow, maybe i was ill or something and wasn't noticing it, thankfully when they went past i saw and heard the motors and was relieved, also, nothing cheers you up more going up a steep hill than an ebiker sailing past and saying 'you're doing great; ;o)
For me, I’ve always found bikes to be kinda magical. Using nothing other than your own power, they multiply your natural limits many times over, and allow you to travel further under your own steam than would otherwise be possible. Bikes are also often the first real freedom that we get – and being able to places untethered from electricity, and the feeling of accomplishment for having gotten there entirely by yourself is a huge part of that. Even now, I find it enchanting that I can get on a bike and go basically *anywhere*.
These are kids who enjoy the downhill riding, they're doing more dangerous and skilled stuff than i did when i was their age, which was basically on a rigid bike struggling to do anything close to technical on it, the whole mountain bike mantra has changed, back in the late 90s when i was doing enduros that meant endurance, now it's pootling from point A to point B and then flying down a techy trail as fast as possible, then repeating it a couple more times. If this stuff was about when i was that age i'd have lapped it up, especially on bikes with more than 80mm of elastomer suspension
It's not even about "Enduro" style riding, although it is a valid thing and applies to some but the eeb has allowed Hoppy Jr to get out to more of those interesting and inspiring places on his bike. It means he is interested and excited to do it, if we had to wait until he was strong enough to do that then it's entirely possible he'd have lost interest in biking before then.
As I said; who am I to judge? It has zero effect on my days enjoyment, it was just comment that I was just genuinely surprised by the numbers of folks on e-bikes. Riding in places like Peaks and Calderdale, I really don't see as many. I guess it's partly that everyone is going the same way around the same trail. Still, didn't think it'd swung quite that far in favour of e-bikes.
bike parks are for lazy people !
What a load of BS - the usual STW highbrow snobbery that comes out in all the posts
250m climb is what? 25-35 minutes? 45 at a push, maybe.
250m climb is what? 25-35 minutes? 45 at a push, maybe.
But who goes to BPW to do just one run? Times that by 5, 6, 7 or whatever (8-10 in the uplift) and it takes its toll. Probably to the point where it would affect your concentration and safety on the DHs. It certainly would me. I can eat my hill climbing greens for free, any day of the week a lot closer to home. If I've paid and travelled some distance to go to a gravity based bike park, I want to spend my valuable time there doing what I went for. Not repeatedly blowing out of my arse chugging up the same boring trail.
the usual STW highbrow snobbery that comes out in all the posts
Have another read, some not all.
was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks
Not quite sure why you are surprised TBH. It doesn't surprise me in the least that loads of people who don't want to exert themselves too much physically might also be the same people that don't want to .....exert themselves too much physically
My son (13) uses my wife's ebike hardtail, no matter what the weather is now we go out almost every weekend. Before he would not be so keen when it was wet and windy. He still likes riding his whyte 13o but the e-bike lets him do what I do on the good bits and keeps doing them a few times each trip thanks to the portable uplift. In no way has the e-bike held back his riding skill development.
I posted this before, I went to 417 and did not use the uplift. I will never do that again as I was finished before the battery. Unfit but not really lazy. And also my e-bike rides like (to me) a DH bike compared to my Pivot, so I won't have a problem using it with an uplift.
On the flip side - I could do with an ebike to keep up with my 13yo!
At our club we have strict no ebike rule for students, regardless of age.
Also with the uplift it's bad enough hauling a 17kg DH bike on and off the trailer - wouldn't fancy it with a 20kg+ ebike!
“Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?”
They’re considered as bikes, then separately classifying them becomes open to different interpretation so I don’t think it’s helpful to have them separate.
They’re speed limited and there is an argument that kids travelling closer to the traffic speed and not having to pedal as hard may be better as they can focus on control rather than motion.
mrhoppy are you seriously suggesting thst it would be a good idea to give an 8 year old an e-bike and let he or she loose on the road?
I understand that e-bikes are concerned about the image of their machines and the possibility of them no longer being classified as bicycles, but there should be an age limit on using them on the road, and it’s probably wise to put an age limit on their use in a bike park.
That said, I completely agree with your opinion that a well behaved under 14 on an e-bike in the supervision of a responsible adult is unlikely to cause an issue to anyone, but rules aren’t made for sensible people.
For an ebike to be considered the same as a bike (EAPC) in the UK, the rider needs to be 14. If you're younger, it's just another electric powered toy, and when and where you can use it is nowhere near as clear cut... in your own garden or on your mate's farm away from public access are the only options that aren't questionable.
mrhoppy are you seriously suggesting thst it would be a good idea to give an 8 year old an e-bike and let he or she loose on the road?
As much as it would be for them to be let loose on the road on anything else. I'd not want them to be on their own but I'd not want that on an unpowered bike. Small kids can end up weaving as they have to push hard on pedals to generate power, that goes if they have pedal assistance. They get less tired so are less prone to losing focus. From what we've found the pedalling is less erratic on the eeb, I'll of this is good if you're riding in a road.
Small kids would be better suited to SL bikes, easier to move about, package smaller motors and need less batteries (see the Levo jr), absolutely think they're acceptable.
Fair enough. I’ll be honest, I know more about 8 year olds than I do e-bikes!
Just to add to Mr Hoppy, ebikes made specfically for smaller kids often have fixed (or parent controlled) lower maximum speed limits on them, such as the Levo SL Kids.
And, as My Hoppy said, definitely agree one would want a light-weight (SL-type) motor, rather than a full-fat one. Motors like the Fazua (on my Pivot Shuttle SL) and the Bosch SX (on my son's Canyon) don't add that much more weight over a non-assisted bike.
This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people
I assume the idiot who made this comment expects the likes of Sam Hill etc to ride up Mont St Anne before their runs? BPW is one of the most fun places in the UK to ride a bike...
I've discussed this before on here and will throw in a bit on the importance of Ebikes in my boys context.
Him and Katy do rides and coaching in winter on Eebs fairly often each year, the reason is, they get 4-5 times the runs in a short space of time compared to manuals. It's not always about fitness, it's not always about pedalling, it's sometimes about content content content. Not in a media context, but amount of runs, practicing techniques, practicing form, skills, terrain. If you're putting the rider in the red climb after climb, there's only so much they can do in terms of descent, learning and precision. Hence they use the Eeb to get to certain places, tracks and locations like say Barrys Sidings to maximise runs.
At places like BPW they give the abilty to get more run in for adults and kids than pedalling up and is only 1/3 of the price of an uplift. If you're doing a weekend uplift and taking your kid it's £100 for just the uplifting, versus £35 for the Eeb uplift. You also find even kids will get fatigued on the uplift bus/descents so they'll only end up doing 4-5 which is about the same as they'll do on the Eeb anyway (but for £65 less).
There's also the adventure factor, being on the eeb and doing the climb feels more of an adventure than just sitting on the bus, you're experiencing a bit more 'big mountain' feeling.
I can even see why you'd Eeb it and uplift af the same time, trails like Terrys Belly are pretty demanding as they last a hell of a long time and have both the hanging on and the pedalling for ages at the end too... So again, keeping the fatigue factor down is important.
Far too mant on here see certain aspects of riding in only THEIR context, i must ride, must pedal, must do XYZ miles, XYZ pain, effort... but honestly that doesn't mean you're right.. it only means you're right, for you.