[Closed] Eating whale is kinder than eating chicken - discuss.

neil the wheel

To feed a hundred people, 25 chickens have to suffer and die.

What? I dunno about those stats, I'm on more of 1:1 ratio. However, I prefer turkey.

What are we going to do when the aliens turn up & want to speak to the whales?

When you can breed whales like you are can chicken go for it.

Minke populations are not endangered.

and it tastes good.

Using your 1/4 chicken as a portion size I think you'd get closer to a thousand portions out of the whale .

Maybe, but I didn't think the point of not killing whales was particularly related to being kind to animals.

That South Park episode 😆 F you whales, F you dolphins

Fresh dolphin steak is so much nicer than the tinned rubbish in waitrose

I blame all the vegetarians and their insatiable demand for chicken and fish. Whales are fish.

Think of the krill

"Save the turkeys" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

japanese are killing an endagered species - not acceptable under any circumstances

As soon as whales start laying eggs, then i'll swap from chickens.

Being delicious is a brilliant evolutionary strategy for chickens, there are millions of them. We don't eat tigers so there are about four left.

Whales are fish.

😯

japanese are killing an endagered species

except they aren't.

Sooo.... based on that. 50 Billion chickens are reared and killed a year, so only 50 million whales a year would have to be killed.... I think its probably harder to rear a whale than a chicken.

I think its probably harder to rear a whale than a chicken.

*dribbles tea*

Might not be endangered but it's illegal and condemned by the rest of the world. It's an utter disgrace and they should be turned around and sent back to port before being decommissioned.

In defiance of international law, Japan will send off its whaling fleet today to kill hundreds of Minke whales in the Southern Ocean — a move fiercely condemned by Australia and New Zealand.

Last year the International Court of Justice ruled Japan's scientific whaling program was a sham that should be halted, and the International Whaling Commission (IWC) has also said the plan was not justified.

To sidestep this, the Japanese government called for any future disputes to be settled through the United Nations convention on the law of the sea.

But Japanese academic Yasuhiro Sanada said that too may prove to be illegal.

Milkie

I think its probably harder to rear a whale than a chicken.

Easier to pluck though.

except they aren't.

They also appear to not being doing for Scientific Research so that would make it illegal.

...also think of all the trees that would need be cut down to make the containers for the KFW bargain bucket. 😉

6 Spicy Whale fins please

6 Spicy Whale fins please

Do you want Fry with that?

I advocate the use of torpedoes on the fleet in this instance. They've been warned.

japanese are killing an endagered species - not acceptable under any circumstances

Not even if they're really really hungry on the way back from the pub, and the kebab house is shut?

Whale meat again,
Don't know where, don't know when,
But I know whale meat again, will taste the same.
Keep smiling through,
Just like you always do,
Till the blue ships drive the shoals, far far away.

IGMC 😆

I advocate the use of torpedoes on the fleet in this instance.

For Scientific Research.

How many packets of these would you get out of a whale?

[img] [/img]

The OP fails to distinguish between farming and hunting, japanese who eat whale and humans and the rule of law...

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3653/3384810966_17a8f7b51a_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3653/3384810966_17a8f7b51a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/6a73nL ]Steve Irwin in Hobart[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr

These guys will be back out to greet them, absolute top guys. Had the pleasure to share a few beers with them while the Steve Irwin was in for a refit last year.

Bloody hippies! 😉

None. Whales aren't cod.

Nah, the Whales exist because of the efforts of their parents and their own efforts to survive. The chickens exist because we bred them - I personally don't believe they have the mental capacity to understand life or death, but if they were unhappy about us killing them, you could argue they owe their lives to us in the first place, a short comfortable life largely free from the stress of hunger or attack by predators is preferable to no life at all.

As for kindness, a slaughtered chicken is killed quickly and without pain, not so for hunted whales.

I've eaten minke whale, it was nice. And, you know, free range.

I wonder how many of the folks on here proclaiming that it's a terrible thing to eat (non-endangered) whales will happily tuck into battery-farmed chicken and eggs and intensively-reared pork...

I don't have room in my garden for a whale tank where my chicken hutch is.

For that reason, I'm oot.

No I wouldn't, I prefer good farming methods. I also think hunting whales for dubious political reasons and stubbornness is pointless. The Japanese do not want to loose face on this one.

At the OP, I know what you're getting at but it feels more than that. I suppose it's a 'I like them so it's bad' scale, Which with Vegans it's a 'All animals' level, with vegetarians it's a 'Everything if it's in my mouth, but not if I'm wearing it' level, Pescetarians are kind of 'I don't think fish are cuddly so that's OK' and so it continues. I feel that I'd eat any meat, no issues at all, except that if someone served up Elephant with a black rhino jus or a dog burger, I'd be pretty disgusted, yet I see no issue with eating a rabbit which in turn disgusts my wife.
I think almost everyone bar a few remote islanders and the Japanese have crossed wales off their personal lists though.

The fact is that our species has exploded on this planet, in terms of numbers, and if we were free to eat anything we felt like, there would be nothing left. As it is, we, as a species, have designated certain animals for food i.e. cows, sheep chickens etc. Animals that are easy to breed and provide the necessary nutrients.

As the population of this planet continues to grow, the protection of “protected” species is going to become increasingly important. The likes of Japan who blatantly flout this ethic should be severely punished. As should any country that causes any environmental catastrophe, or fails to meet their emissions targets.

I’m a supporter of Sea Shepherd anyway and I hope they get stuck in. However, it really needs severe international sanctions to make any permanent change.

😯

Well if vegetarians count chicken and fish as not meat then I'm counting whales as fish

It's not about the cuteness or otherwise of the animal being eaten, it's purely about the number of lives taken. Bigger animal = fewer individuals killed for the same amount of dinner. Therefore, chicken is more cruel then beef. (Or whale).

I've eaten whale, dog, rat and monitor lizard.

All socially unacceptable animals to eat.

They were all OK, but not something I would get excited about.

Whales and dolphins appear to be considerably more intelligent than chickens, and probably a lot of humankind as well come to that.

Chickens are pretty stupid and quick to kill, whereas killing one of those whales can take a long time and is pretty inhumane.

Chickens are pretty stupid

Whales are possibly as clever as us(

Out of interest, what scientific research has Japan produced when using it as an excuse for hunting whales? I know it's bollocks, just wondered if they were legally obliged to actually produce a scientific paper, and if so what it said?

"It has been scientifically established that whales are not fish."

(Preamble to Japanese Scientific Paper)

I think I saw it in Nature - something like 'Testing the relative deliciousness of whale species: A randomised controlled trial'. Seemed legit.

And obviously there is that cove that the japs drive all the dolphins in to kill :

[img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4iTi3q5_gkiG6CN77ZD-nFnfCGUH1InEpC3xm17VVVmcMYLc7 [/img]

if that scene instead had a dead fisherman replacing each dolphin I am not sure I would be too fussed...

I think I saw it in Nature - something like 'Testing the relative deliciousness of whale species: A randomised controlled trial'. Seemed legit.

I found minki a bit tasteless, humpback too fatty, blue was ok, but Omura was simply devine.

I don;t know what sort of dogs I ate, medium sized, maybe retrievers.

I found minki a bit tasteless,

Is this your Minki? 😀

[img] https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkBvn1GNq_I2ZCTsWAQqIbun7ZJrf-8qrQfsmoRAExvecoRr5ZTg [/img]

Whales are possibly as clever as us(

[quote=neil the wheel ]It's not about the cuteness or otherwise of the animal being eaten, it's purely about the number of lives taken. Bigger animal = fewer individuals killed for the same amount of dinner. Therefore, chicken is more cruel then beef. (Or whale).

On that basis, chicken is more cruel than human - humans are also rather easier to catch than whales. I presume you're arguing that no other criteria should be used other than number of lives taken?

Over time these south sea islanders became larger and more buoyant whilst there nose migrated from the more traditional "middle of the face" position first to the forehead, then the top of the head and eventually to the back of the head.

Shirley. if yer nose migrated over your forehead to the back of your head as described, you would drown the first time it rained as your nostrils would be pointing upwards?
I'm not sure this theory is 100% correct 😉

The rest of the theory seems perfectly reasonable though

The rest of the theory seems perfectly reasonable though

No doubt. If I saw someone with a nose on the back of their head I'd definitely "surprise punch" it. Who wouldn't?

I've eaten minke whale, it was nice. And, you know, free range

Snort

So whales are as intelligent as us, and whales eat other whales, so its ok to eat whale.

As it is, we, as a species, have designated certain animals for food i.e. cows, sheep chickens etc. Animals that are easy to breed and provide the necessary nutrients.

As the population of this planet continues to grow, the protection of “protected” species is going to become increasingly important. The likes of Japan who blatantly flout this ethic should be severely punished

leaving aside all discussions about whether we should 'designate certain animals for food' the problem here is that as a society the Japanese have a different view and include whales in their list of 'acceptable to eat'

your ethic =/= their ethic and therein lies the problem.

But other people also don't agree with the ethics of eating chickens and cows, so now it's just a case of who is 'wronger' in whoever's eyes you're looking from.

As a disclaimer - I'm against Whale hunting/eating, but I recognise the difficulty in getting another culture/society to bow to your ideas when you have different points of view on which tasty creatures you're allowed to eat and which you aren't.

@ amedias

You're right, it is difficult to get these messages across, but it has to be done, for the sake of everyone. It's the same as Brazil stopping cutting down its rainforests or the World moving away from fossil fuels: at some point you have to draw the line.

I was going to write that the difference between the whale and the chicken is that the chicken gets stunned before suffering an otherwise painful death, but the latest trends suggest that hundreds of millions of animals are now being slaughtered in Britain without being stunned first in the interests of accommodating barbaric [s]religious [/s]practices.

Having read the British Vets last report it staggers me that we are allowing around 25% of large animals that are slaughtered to effectively die by choking to death on their own blood for up to 3 minutes ( whilst in many cases standing up and concious of this) when 30 years ago this was simply not allowed.

More worryingly; when are killer whales going to decide we taste like chicken/ They evolve and learn new behaviour each year...Seals;fast and hard to catch,humans..slow and more eating on 'em

@ amedias

You're right, it is difficult to get these messages across,

I don't disagree, but I fear that we (not you and me but the collective we) are just shouting louder rather than looking at [i][b]how[/b][/i] to get the message across in a way where they come round to that way of thinking rather than us 'winning' through brute force, and them feeling hard done by/still not actually agreeing, hopefully that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say but not sure I'm getting it across very well!

If you go in all guns blazing basically calling them inhumane monsters for not agreeing with us, it's bound to be met with a defensive attitude. It's very difficult to persuade someone to change their ways with that approach.

More worryingly; when are killer whales going to decide we taste like chicken

Slaughtering chickens humanely is a lot easier than whales to

If you go in all guns blazing basically calling them inhumane monsters for not agreeing with us, it's bound to be met with a defensive attitude. It's very difficult to persuade someone to change their ways with that approach.

True, but I think the other, less aggressive, avenues have been exhausted.

More worryingly; when are killer whales going to decide we taste like chicken/ They evolve and learn new behaviour each year...Seals;fast and hard to catch,humans..slow and more eating on 'em

Killer whales are far too intelligent to deliberately target human beings.
They've had generations to witness what human beings can do to whales.
They don't want any of that action.

[i] the difference between the whale and the chicken is that the chicken gets stunned before suffering an otherwise painful death[/i]

And the cramped, miserable, disease-rife-therefore-pumped-full-of-antibiotics life the chicken lives first, obviously.

On that basis, chicken is more cruel than human

Capybara are fish, so why not whales?
http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/capybara.html

I've eaten minke whale, it was nice. And, you know, free range.
I wonder how many of the folks on here proclaiming that it's a terrible thing to eat (non-endangered) whales will happily tuck into battery-farmed chicken and eggs and intensively-reared pork...

Killing [s]whales[/s] animals for food is morally indefensible

[quote=neil the wheel opined]It's not about the cuteness or otherwise of the animal being eaten, it's purely about the number of lives taken. Bigger animal = fewer individuals killed for the same amount of dinner. Therefore, chicken is more cruel then beef. (Or whale).

I have to agree if i was going to start eating meat i would start with something massive as it minimises the deaths

As for the whale scenario above if you think the UK kills 2o million chickens monthly in a nice way then you are somewhat mistaken in this belief

What we need is a huge animal with the brain of a chicken. Eg brontosaurus

I wonder how many of the folks on here proclaiming that it's a terrible thing to eat (non-endangered) whales will happily tuck into battery-farmed chicken and eggs and intensively-reared pork...

Not me. Why would that be the case just because I don't think we should be harpooning whale?

Something no one has mentioned so far is the importance of the whale in the ecosystem, something we are only beginning to understand now, as they return from being hunted to the brink.

Specifically bred, farmed animals have a much smaller (possibly negative?) impact on natural ecosystems.

What we need is a huge animal with the brain of a chicken. Eg brontosaurus

I'll have a leg please.

The methodology of actually hunting and killing whales is absolutely horrendous. Now, to be fair, chickens are often treated badly too but that's at least somewhat manageable/reducable, there's no way known to kill a whale that isn't basically horrific.

The main difference imo is literally the nature of the beast. Chickens are small brained, less complex animals. Ceteceans are [i]smart[/i]. (lumping them all together btw, some of these things we don't see all types of cetecea do) Anthropomorphising is always dangerous but we've observed them at play, living as family units, communicating, learning, working as teams in really very clever ways, and showing behaviour that looks very like mourning. They're inquisitive, they use tools, and they get bored, and irrirated. And we know they remember, and plan for the future. They seem to show self-awareness- studies suggest they recognise themselves in mirrors and videos. Do they experience life differently to chickens? I don't think many people would doubt it, and that makes taking that life a different matter.

(there's a definite possibility that some ceteceans are smarter than us; denser cortexes, and faster brain stems. Literally more processing power and bandwidth. Not to mention having access to sensory methods we lack; what new things would humans think of if we could perceive sound and space as echolocators do?)

TBF, I'd rather farm humans.

Is there a sliding scale of harm and of acceptability? imo, there is- everyone draws the line somewhere. Vegetables grown with herbicide are murder! Personally I only eat meat that I know has been cooked alive, the pain makes it tastier.

But we should be treating farmed animals better. I'm personally comfortable with murdering meat. I'm comfortable with it being basically unpleasant for the poor buggers. But I don't want it to be cruel, or needlessly unpleasant.

Specifically on the subject of japanese whaling, what's weird is that they don't even make money off it; the whaling fleet is dependent on subsidy. And the quantity of meat exceeds demand.

Northwind - Member
The methodology of actually hunting and killing whales is absolutely horrendous.