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If you're wealthy enough for your estate to attract IHT, you should probably just pay it.
I've been sort of retired for coming up 3 years, this was facilitated by a very generous redundancy at 56 which worked very well for me and most of my colleagues.
Sadly like TJ I lost my wife 3 years earlier, I had paid the mortgage off and as I worked flat out through Covid with some good bonuses am in a good financial position. I would have loved children but unfortunately my late wife’s condition precluded that 🙁 though I have assisted my sisters 2 boys getting on the property ladder.
I tried dating again and had 2 relationships over the next 2 years but I think it's very hard to start again after a 37 year relationship where you grew up together, I'm still friends with the ladies but honestly I'm comfortable on my own.
I now have a part time job in an industry I've never worked in, working mostly with people that are 1/2 or even a 1/3rd my age I only work mornings 4 days a week and can do less if I want but I really enjoy it and sort of feel like "Dad" to most of them.
At the end of the day it's working for me and that's what any of you starting on the retirement path have to work out. As a few others have said it's surprising how much less money you really need when you have the spare time to plan your life properly.
My last day today. Out in the Peak in the van.
Excited and no apprehensions.
Eldest daughter has just announced she is getting married next year so along with all the planned bike rides we have a wedding to help with
I’m on day two of early retirement and it’s been another horrendous hangover, not sure I can keep this up.
I do believe that most folk now will have a graduated retirement ie going part time or moving to a lower stress job in the last few years of working. I think this will be the pattern in future
I do believe that most folk now will have a graduated retirement ie going part time or moving to a lower stress job in the last few years of working. I think this will be the pattern in future
I agree, and when I originally said early retirement that is probably what I meant. Plan will be to use part of pension and maybe equity from down sizing but supplement with some kind of part time or temporary work. BUT will be something stress free and that is just an interest and doesn’t stop us doing what we really want in life.
ps congratulations to @tracey and @kilo - very jealous! pretty sure when my time comes the first few days (weeks?!) will also be in my van and with a few hang overs!
Very good thread and pleased so many are also either retiring early or shifting to a new way of working.
I'm 53 shortly and have made it known I'd be open to taking voluntary redundancy in the current reorg. For me would equate to 2 years salary which would carry me to 55 when I could access my pensions if I wished or look for something low stress and/or casual.
I'm finding the mental gymnastics a little difficult to actively talk myself out of a job/career that I've been in for 32 years which rewards us very well. The issue is I have zero respect for the majority of my so called leadership so think it time to move on.
Psychologically I think I've already gone!
I do believe that most folk now will have a graduated retirement ie going part time or moving to a lower stress job in the last few years of working. I think this will be the pattern in future
I think it's going to have to become the norm for a lot of NHS staff. Due to changes in the NHS pension, you get massively penalised for retiring before pension age now. So I "can't" retire now until I'm 68 without losing huge proportion of pension. At the same time, it's incredibly unlikely I'll be physically able to do my job till that age, 12 hour days and a lot of fine, manual manipulation of stuff when I'm already knackered and my eyes are on their way out!! And I'm not a nurse on a busy ward. Christ knows what they're going to do.
Due to changes in the NHS pension, you get massively penalised for retiring before pension age now.
Isn't that the same for most pensions, take the benefit early and you can't expect the full amount. You could always have a private pension to cover the gap.
A different way to look at the reduced pension is if you are say penalised 5% per year under your normal retirement age but your pension is index linked to either rpi/cpi and that's running at say 3.5% the actual loss is only the differential of 1.5% and been in receipt for that time period.
Sorry for delayed reply, yes, edukator has it, I am deliberately keeping 2 years short until I have to buy them. I may get a job, in which case I would be paying ni for no extra pension benefit.
I am 59 so have 7 years to buy the 2 missing. Unless the rules change again of course.
Richard.
I would have gone on health grounds. Head and body broken. I simply couldn't have done the job another 7 years.
I think this will become more common
Just finished my first full month of early retirement and it's great. Been slowly reducing the days over the last two years but now I've fully stopped it's amazing the difference between fully stopped and only working 1 day a week. It's starting to feel more like when I was much much younger in terms of outlook on life. I understand why TJ has taken off on his bike/car/plane again. Got to live on my wife's pension and savings until mine kicks in but all is good.
I've got a few years in the original NHS pension which is aimed at retiring at 60. We have been moved on to different schemes which are now tied to state pension age. So the goal posts moved for a lot of people. If I wanted to retire at 60 still, my pension is reduced by 30%, a pretty big chunk.
I'm not here to moan about that per se, I am still aware I am in a privileged position and financially I am probably going to be ok, the pension is still good.
And I have started making extra contributions into a secondary pension.
But what does concern me is that the NHS now is geared towards everyone still working right up to pension age.... There's going to be 67yr old hca's and staff nurses creaking around trying to keep up with the demands of patients. Plus look at my department, it's pretty specialised and we employ 10 people in my grade, but potentially there's going to be a load of dodders blocking positions which should be being refreshed with younger people.
I don't know how that compares to other industries etc, but the situation has changed for NHS staff over the last few years, it feels like a problem which is yet to be realised to me.
I don't know how that compares to other industries etc, but the situation has changed for NHS staff over the last few years, it feels like a problem which is yet to be realised to me.
Sounds like quite a bit of the public sector to me. Funding cuts mean us older folk are blocking youngsters, rather being able to work together to mix old experience with new skills, and that's damaging for all who need to keep working.
I'm incredibly fortunate that my older private sector pensions and my original CS scheme mean MrsMC and I could theoretically retire with enough at 60, when youngest finishes uni. A lot of experienced colleagues, especially in junior and middle management, are in the same position, and it's going to be that gap in knowledge and experience that should also be a worry.
A lot of experienced colleagues, especially in junior and middle management, are in the same position, and it's going to be that gap in knowledge and experience that should also be a worry.
We were doing this as I left, a whole slew of experienced “middle management” officers who were either hitting 60, or close enough to be able to afford it, and had sufficient years in the old CS pension scheme just going.
The demographics and skills issue has been known about for a long time thanks to the post-war baby boom reaching retirement. I was working as part of a cross-sector project over a decade ago where we were trying to shape Government policy and drive investment. The feedback we got from the Minister was that they were only interested in short-term fixes - the project got canned and we got the Apprentice Levy instead. They reap what they sow - the only way that major projects like HS2 and Crossrail have been able to run is huge numbers of imported skills.
The demographics and skills issue has been known about for a long time thanks to the post-war baby boom reaching retirement. I was working as part of a cross-sector project over a decade ago where we were trying to shape Government policy and drive investment. The feedback we got from the Minister was that they were only interested in short-term fixes - the project got canned and we got the Apprentice Levy instead. They reap what they sow - the only way that major projects like HS2 and Crossrail have been able to run is huge numbers of imported skills.
It's bs, I quit my middle/lower management IT job after working my way up from call desk monkey as I couldn't get a decent pay rise - not even to current market rate for my position.
They were quite happy to foist the full resonsibility for an enterprise level service manger on me, without the title and pay though.
My quick maths tells me they would need to pay any replacement about 40% more than I was getting paid. If they's had offered me a 15% pay bump I would have tollerated it, but as it was..."bye bye! 🤡 "
While many are talking of having to work to 67, and the impact of this the biggest change IMO was when the statutory retirement date was removed. This meant that folk didn't have to retire at 67.
Just how do companies & organisations get people who are too old to do their jobs to leave?
I work with a guy who is 72, he's staying until he's paid off - his words.
I've no solution, just looking to how others see it?
While many are talking of having to work to 67, and the impact of this the biggest change IMO was when the statutory retirement date was removed. This meant that folk didn't have to retire at 67.
Just how do companies & organisations get people who are too old to do their jobs to leave?
I work with a guy who is 72, he's staying until he's paid off - his words.
I've no solution, just looking to how others see it?
Does he do his job correctly? some of the best people I've had on my teams previously are older people of that persuasion.
They weren't the most energetic or proactive, and could be stubborn old goats if not rubbed the right way, but they were competent, and reliable... trustworthy, hardly any sick days, always on time, always performed 'OK'. Just 'got on with it' with minimal interference from me as their manager...
Best type of employee IMO!
"I work with a guy who is 72, he's staying until he's paid off - his words.
I've no solution, just looking to how others see it?"
I'm 64. I work part time. Negotiating with work to cut from 22 to 16 hrs per week. I plan to retire at 66. Of course I have a good occupational pension in addition to the OAP when I get it. As my job is not physically demanding if I didn't have a good pension I might choose to work past 67. I have been sick twice in 15 years. Still fit enough to go bike touring for weeks at a time.
I would suggest age isn't the issue. If someone of any age isn't capable of doing the job that's what HR depts are for. If a 45 year old wasn't capable of doing it what would you do?
We have people at work, at/past retirement age, great salaries, but aren't doing anything (Professors). They aren't dismissably bad enough as we call it due to their contracts. We've had people offered packages, but they won't go because they 'love their work'. I'd be off with a year of pay in my pocket (more if you take in account tax). There is more to life than work - it's there to pay the bills and enable you to do 'stuff'.
One job i had there was an 82yr old HCA. Complete passenger and eventually persuaded to retire after she had a stroke.
The way to deal with folk like that is capability. Managers need to be strong
Just how do companies & organisations get people who are too old to do their jobs to leave?
I work with a guy who is 72, he's staying until he's paid off - his words.
He's already told you how to get him to leave - pay him off! If you don't want to do that (because nobody wants to be seen to be rewarding dead weight) then performance manage him out.
then performance manage him out
It isn't that easy – unless the person is making mistakes that they could be pulled up for. And if he has made mistakes, how long has it gone on for and, if it has been a while, why is he being managed now (ie, it could be considered constructive dismissal if the same sort of under-performing is now an issue if no previous discussions). If he is physically unable to do the job, then the employer has a duty to either make it possible for him to do it, or give him duties he is able to do. They could make the position redundant, but again, this could be seen as being constructive if they employ someone else in the role (or a similar role) in the near future. Much easier to pay him off.
Where people have built their life around a work identity (and Prof's are very likely to have), ending that is a huge shift. Often they've been going to the same place for 40 years every day, they may use the hair dresser, the bank, the GP, sports facilities on campus etc. Their friends are other professors who they meet for coffee/lunch in the same places they've used for decades. For some their only international travel is to go to conferences and meet other professors and talk shop. The solution for managing those people is the "Emeritus Professorship". Usually they keep their office, they might do a few ad hoc specialist lectures but they don't have to do the ordinary stuff, input into some research grants, keeping up international relationships, email and library access etc but don't have to do all the management bollocks etc - but they either don't get paid or get only a notional amount, it lets them retain their "status" without the cost, but can also benefit the department through showing they still have wise expertise.We have people at work, at/past retirement age, great salaries, but aren't doing anything (Professors). They aren't dismissably bad enough as we call it due to their contracts. We've had people offered packages, but they won't go because they 'love their work'.
And of course they might also be REF-returnable or have a meaningful impact case study in the pipeline, so it's in everyone's interests to keep them engaged.
if he's not making mistakes or otherwise under performing then what's the problem?then performance manage him out
It isn't that easy – unless the person is making mistakes that they could be pulled up for.
thats why I said performance management not just dismissal. Whenever you do performance management you want objective criteria. I see no issue with the same metrics applying across all ages - so if there are others doing same or similar roles and he's coasting whilst they are storming this is not difficult to justify, he gets an opportunity to fix it and highlight training or other needs. HR depts and lawyers might be worried about tribunals but really if you follow a well documented, systematic process and listen to what he says its not difficult to sort, but it does requirement management to actually put some effort in to show they tried to fix it.And if he has made mistakes, how long has it gone on for and, if it has been a while, why is he being managed now (ie, it could be considered constructive dismissal if the same sort of under-performing is now an issue if no previous discussions).
well you could do that then - if you've got someone who isn't pulling their weight because you haven't made reasonable adjustments thats your own fault!If he is physically unable to do the job, then the employer has a duty to either make it possible for him to do it, or give him duties he is able to do.
Yeah he's probably not redundant - so either you are into settlement agreement territory or creating a special retirement package option to get him to go.They could make the position redundant, but again, this could be seen as being constructive if they employ someone else in the role (or a similar role) in the near future. Much easier to pay him off.
I gave my notice to retire in January, aiming for a mid may finish at 55 and start drawing from the pension pot.
I think I am very lucky I that my employer, a small firm in a quite specialist industry, wanted to keep me on. The discussions ranged from three days a month, to two days a week. Anyway, I’ve agreed three days a week, but the salary and flexibility they have offered, frankly, made it a no brainer. Mrs Rock already does three days so I’m trying to align mine to be off when she’s working, with just one day when we are both off. 😂
It may have been fortunate as the pension pot has bombed! Luckily, I won’t need to touch it so it has chance to claw back.
I gave my notice to retire in January, aiming for a mid may finish at 55 and start drawing from the pension pot.
I think I am very lucky I that my employer, a small firm in a quite specialist industry, wanted to keep me on
Sounds more like going part time than retiring?
Sounds more like going part time than retiring?
It's been discussed a few times but this is becoming a far more common form of "retirement". Traditionally you'd work until you can work no more then completely stop (and usually drop dead shortly afterwards). A slow steady decrease keeps you engaged and active, usually lets you stop full time work way earlier and gives you more spare time while you can actually enjoy it. Maybe not for everyone but nice to have options
a couple of years to go here, aiming for early 60's, depending on how the pension pot grows. It has seen a 10% drop in the last 3 weeks mind you .. 🙁
A slow steady decrease keeps you engaged and active, usually lets you stop full time work way earlier and gives you more spare time while you can actually enjoy it. Maybe not for everyone but nice to have options
indeed.
I would add, it's a game changer(in a very good way) having the choice to pick and choose the work/gigs in a field that you have been very experienced in. When you arrive on any consulting type work or short term projects,(being an outsider) it's often easier to suggest (and implement ) good design and solutions ,while being unaffected by 'local politics'.
I am going to be in a bit of a situation when I get to retirement age (just over nine years to go) – I really don't want to work past 67 (and hopefully I shouldn't have to), however, my wife is nine years younger than me and I don't think she'll be too happy with continuing to work whilst I'm enjoying my retirement. We don't have much capacity at the moment to save any more than we do, so I am just hoping that by the time we get there, we'll have a better picture of whether she can retire early at the same time I retire.
Yes, it’s exactly that, but with bonus flexibility. It’s going to be a “suck it and see” arrangement, if it does work for both sides, but I see no reason why not. If I need to work five days one week, I just bank two to use whenever.
The pension pot looks poor at the moment, it’s dropped significantly in recent weeks, so it’s perhaps a timely review of the plans I had. In twelve months, with growth and continuing to contribute, it might be back where it was a month ago, and we look again.
my wife is nine years younger than me and I don't think she'll be too happy with continuing to work whilst I'm enjoying my retirement.
Now you really need to do some work on that, you've earned that free time 😉 🤣 🤣
"Sounds more like going part time than retiring?"
I've been part time since 2009 (age 48). It's great. Apart from the fact only having 2 days off a week while working 48 hrs a week was crap I like the balance between having the social aspects of work while also having ample free time to do stuff.
I guess it depends on the nature of your part time. Mine was fexible enough for several multi-month bike tours over the years. In one case I booked the flights before getting unpaid leave because I was going regardless. The leave came through though.
As for one partner retiring first? Mrs IRC retired fully a few years ago. I'm fine with that. After all not many married people get to go on multi-month holidays alone while the other half is at home. We do also holiday together obviously but she is not into bike touring, sleeping on the ground every night.
I am currently awaiting the result of a request to cut my hours to 16 a week. The shift pattern would mean I would be off 7 days in a row every fortnight even before In used leave days. Ideal for picking good weather windows for outdooras stuff.
We plan to buy a 2 bedroom house with a decent garden when the kids have moved out - if they want to come back they can stay in the caravan in the garden. They would prefer that.
I gave my notice to retire in January, aiming for a mid may finish at 55 and start drawing from the pension pot.
I think I am very lucky I that my employer, a small firm in a quite specialist industry, wanted to keep me on
Sounds more like going part time than retiring?
As others have said I think this will become a common pattern
Sacking someone for not being capable of doing their job is pretty straightforward and quick. It just needs a robust process followed diligently. Unfortunately most HR is utterly useless so are themselves incapable of doing it properly.
I have experience of this both as a union rep and as a manager.
I decided to go part time last year rather than retire fully and it has been a bit of a revelation. The job I gave up was stressful and pressured and, looking back, I had reached the end of my tether with it.
I was aware that I didn't want to go from that to nothing as it felt like too big a jump (and I am young to give up work entirely - 54) so switched to a lower paid but much less stressful job. It's been great and I haven't regretted it yet (it will be a year at the end of April).
I'm afraid to look but I suspect Trump has trashed my pension to the point where I won't be able to retire early now 🙁
I suspect the next couple of years might demonstrate the benefits of annuities rather than drawdown.
I'm afraid to look but I suspect Trump has trashed my pension to the point where I won't be able to retire early now 🙁
I'm also wondering whether I should quit and claim my civil service pension now before the government find a way to reduce the value of that as well.
I'm afraid to look but I suspect Trump has trashed my pension to the point where I won't be able to retire early now 🙁
I'm also wondering whether I should quit and claim my civil service pension now before the government find a way to reduce the value of that as well.
It might not protect you. I've got a small final salary pension, "paid up" since I left the employer. the annual pension it will pay in future increases by RPI (and part of it by CPI) but both are capped at a max increase of 4%. So it took a big hit when we had a few years of c10% inflation during/after COVID
If the plan was to cash a load in then yes, now would be a bad time but if you plan to be retired another 25+ years it'll come back again, then lose a load, then come back, then lose again....etc.
Hence why on retiring holding 18-24 mo in 'cash' that you can use while stocks downturn is advisable.
I've 'lost' about 60k in a week mind, so there is a bit of squeaky bum here too
If the plan was to cash a load in then yes, now would be a bad time but if you plan to be retired another 25+ years it'll come back again, then lose a load, then come back, then lose again....etc.
Hence why on retiring holding 18-24 mo in 'cash' that you can use while stocks downturn is advisable.
I've 'lost' about 60k in a week mind, so there is a bit of squeaky bum here too
Yeah there is a lot to be said for 'de-risking' your investments as you get close to retirement.. move some stocks into bonds, etc. you get a lower return but your investment will be less 'exposed' to random crazy geo-political events like Trumps trade war if you are not in it for the long run.
Most pension providers should automatically de-risk your pension pot, or at least strongly suggest you de-risk yourself as you approach retirement age.
If you are younger, then you might want to ride it out with a slightly higher risk investment such as an ETF like vanguards VWRP if you are prepared to ride it for say 15 more years..if not, and you have a decent pension pot, you need to look at de-risking.
You don't need to derisk it all, just enough so you aren't cashing in stocks at a low. Derisk enough to get through that period, it'll come back
(until it doesn't....and maybe this time WILL be different)