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In case you didn’t notice, it is actually illegal to sell vapes to children.
Same as kids didn't manage to buy cigs then 🙂
All people want is a restriction on use for the comfort of the rest of us, and some protection for people from all the advertising trying o get them addicted. If you want to buy it off you go.
Are you going to ban coffee in your office, and make them drink it outside, first thing in the morning?
I can design you up some posters if you like? Fire you over a pdf to print? 😆 just give me a shout if you need that.
In case you didn’t notice, it is actually illegal to sell vapes to children.
Same as kids didn’t manage to buy cigs then
Are we now on to banning alcohol for the entire population? Sheesh, this is going to be some list come the end of the day! 😆
Nope. But then again nobody blows clouds of flavoured steam around the office with coffee do they.If you can't see that then you never will. As I said just look at how much consideration people give these days when vaping.
If it’s not dangerous it doesn’t matter, it’s personal choice, it should be left to the individual.
Am I missing something? Has anyone suggested banning them? I thought the discussion was around not promoting their use and certainly not allowing restrictions on the use of them in public places to be lifted (although many restrictions are self-imposed, not bound by law anyway).
Nope. But then again nobody blows clouds of flavoured steam around the office with coffee do <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">they.If</span> you can’t see that then you never will. As I said just look at how much consideration people give these days when vaping.
Spoken like a true coffee addict, no consideration for anyone.
Am I missing something? Has anyone suggested banning them? I thought the discussion was around not promoting their use and certainly not allowing restrictions on the use of them in public places to be lifted (although many restrictions are self-imposed, not bound by law anyway).
what do children have to do with that discussion?
Spoken like a true coffee addict, no consideration for anyone.
Errrr, the point being you have to poke your nose into the mug to smell coffee unless you're in a coffee shop where they deliberately make the whole place smells of coffee to make you want it.
Would you like to ban fresh bread though, that's the real ill in society.
Tea drinker here...... Do you have the long term impact studies of vaping yet? What is the 10-20 year health consequences?
what do children have to do with that discussion?
Children like to imitate and form habits of what is normal in society by observation. Normalising the use of e-cigs in public is a key strategy for the industry there. They want people addicted, they need them to be in order to in business.
poke your nose into the mug to smell coffee
no you don't.
it is still a drug with high levels of addiction. Shouldn't be used in public places. Shouldn't be on prescription either.
Do you have the long term impact studies of vaping yet? What is the 10-20 year health consequences?
No idea, there is a possible risk. Agreed?
How am I taking things on blind faith? I’m asking for evidence of the risks, not really getting presented with anything other than, it might do, but we don’t know yet. I agree with that. There’s a risk, personally that risk is going to be better than smoking for me, so how hum. It’s all good in my case.
Well, you took it on blind faith from some article that vaping isn't attracting kids, while the study that the Committee cite in their actual report on this states that "the proportion of young people ‘experimenting’ with e-cigarettes ranged between an eighth and a quarter of young people, but that regular use by secondary school children was limited to about 1%, and those children generally engaged in smoking behaviour".
I interpret finding that 12.5% - 25% of kids are 'experimenting' must mean it's quite attractive.
I'm not going to read the Association for Young People’s Health's report and see what they mean by 'young people' and 'experimenting', and what their sampling strategy was, but feel free to go ahead and refute me.
Well, you took it on blind faith from some article that vaping isn’t attracting kids
I didn't really, am sure some will, that's a parental issue though, not really a concern when speaking of wider attitudes regarding adults. It's comepletely irrelevant to the discussion and as mentioned it's already illegal for kids to buy vapes. It's just screaming, won't someone think of the children...
I interpret finding that 12.5% – 25% of kids are ‘experimenting’ must mean it’s quite attractive.
and 1% suggests it's not that attractive.
Where does everyone stand on pongy cheese? Should be banned?
Why would we want to normalise to use of these products?
Because they help people give up smoking. Supposedly.
Fish, lets ban fish!
If it starts being widely advertised and touted as “95% less harmful than cigs”, maybe more children will want to try it?
It's kinda your job to control your kids, not mine.
It’s just screaming, won’t someone think of the children…
It's not just that though, is it? The evidence the Select Committee cites on the long-term health effects of vaping is just as flimsy - well, actually they admit there isn't any:
"There are strong uncertainties, nevertheless, especially about any long-term health effects of e-cigarettes, because the products have not yet had a history of long use. The studies needed to guarantee the safety of e-cigarettes are inevitably frustrated by the absence of a population of e-cigarette users who have never smoked conventional cigarettes before taking up vaping."
How about keeping the rules the same at the moment which says no vaping inside buildings, I can see many companies just keeping it as a policy even if the law was relaxed. I can't see many transport companies wanting to relax the rules too as the vast majority of people don't use this stuff and most people can mange a short amount of time without a hit. Like I said you want your hit inside try the gum or patches!!
What benefit is it to anyone to allow it inside?
Where does everyone stand on pongy cheese?
QC area at the cheese factory.
Is this relevant ?
Bloody mps lobbying when they ought to be doing proper constituency stuff thats the wrongness.
What about those plug in air freshener things?
They need banning!
In fact; **** it.... lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
What benefit is it to anyone to allow it inside?
tbh, I'm not particularly fussed either way, pretty much no-one ever notices me vaping and if they do on the odd occasion I'll stop, so I don't particularly care all that much. You do over egg the issues ridiculously though (mind you I do agree on the strawberry super clouds 😆 ).
Biggest benefit however would be to completely isolate smokers and encourage even more of a shift to vaping.
I think indoor air fresheners should be banned. Not because of the smell but because inhaling chemicals is not likely to be healthy.
well, actually they admit there isn’t any
So what action should be taken on this complete lack of evidence? 😆
In fact; **** it…. lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
We could just ban inconsiderate ****s.
In fact; **** it…. lets ban absolutely everything that isn’t inert and odourless!!!
How do you propose I walk????
So what action should be taken on this complete lack of evidence?
Not make statements like e-cigarettes are 95% less harmful than tobacco, for a start.
Are you familiar with the null hypothesis, type 1 and type 2 errors, and which is more dangerous?
Because they help people give up smoking. Supposedly
Methadone helps heroin addicts.
As I mentioned before, if you want one as a stop smoking and quitting nicotine aid, as I did, you can get ones that give off little vape and bother no one. The fancy pants smoke machines point to the whole scene going in a completely different direction with people having no desire to give up nicotine and therefore be one step away from smoking again. No need to change anything, except they will because they'll make money.
And lets not forget which towering examples of ethical business run the show
MP's pushing these type of 'initiatives' should be the real worry! Get the populous wound up about allsorts of other stuff other than the democratic process that they are grandly arsing up!
...... Reading through the last few pages and elsewhere, seems to me they are managing the mess pretty well?
Someone somewhere is thinking of money.
I think the whole thing is a ploy to make it socially acceptable, get as many people as they can to take it up, then regulate and tax the shit out of it .
What is the 10-20 year health consequences?
I gave up smoking when I got my first ecig on the 4th October 2008. So will have been 10 years in about 6 weeks
Never been fitter or healthier.
Just passed a full medical and fitness test with flying colours, my results were that of a fit 30 year old, and I am 45. . I ride 200+ miles a week.
As a smoker I struggled to exercise at all, and weighed 4 stone more than I do now
I will check in again another 10 years though, just to be thorough.
👍
They are repulsive vile things and people who use them look like they are playing a shit piccolo. At least smoking was cool.
Here in Germany I work as an event chippy and one of my clients is a very large tobacco company. It's not BAT, so the other one.
I could the stands for them.
They are present at all German political events. Behind the screens of the auditorium there is a large area given over to all the lobby groups or companies with a vested interest in the economy.
Audi, BMW, McDonald's, the arms industry, the gambling lobby, etc....
Each of these companies or lobby groups are throwing money at the party to be there regardless of whether it's a CDU/CSU, SPD, the Greens, FDP or even - in the earlier days of the party - the AFD.
The tabacco company used to have out free packets of cigarettes. Now that's uncool so they havehand their version of e-commerce that burns real tabacco.
Tabacco advertising isn't banned in Germany. Germany is the largest manufacturer of legal cigarettes in the EU.
Believe what you want about the health benefits of e-cigs, but don't think that government came to the conclusions on their own accord.....
I gave up smoking when I got my first ecig on the 4th October 2008. So will have been 10 years in about 6 weeks
Whereas I gave up smoking 15 years ago and it made no difference. I weigh more now than I did when I smoked and I am less fit (mainly because I am older). If only I had started vaping I could have been so much fitter...
Whereas I gave up smoking 15 years ago and it made no difference. I weigh more now than I did when I smoked and I am less fit (mainly because I am older). If only I had started vaping I could have been so much fitter…
aoddly enough, I’m older too.
But it was smoking 40 B&H a day that was preventing me from exercising and getting healthy. As a result I was fat unfit and unhappy.
Vaping allowed me to remove that barrier and get fit and healthy. Happy days! No negative health implications either. 10 years so far and nothing whatsoever.
And I have a full medical annually that checks everything (for other reasons)
Someone asked for the 10 - 20 year health implications, and that is my experience (of the 10 year at least)
I’m not going to change anything about that situation, because it changed my life and that is pretty awesome.
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at.
Crack on whiners 👍
You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time 😫
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at. Crack one whiners . You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time
Just asking that you don't do it in all the places you are not allowed to at the moment, not exactly having a meltdown there are we?
That and a concern about the regulation and level of advertising going on.
Just asking that you don’t do it in all the places you are not allowed to at the moment
I don’t. So that’s fine.
...not exactly having a meltdown there are we?
No, quite right. All perfectly measured and reasonable comments 👍
They are repulsive vile things and people who use them look like they are playing a shit piccolo
Keep your vape to yourself!I wouldn’t trust those fekers as far as I could throw them, I don’t want your stinking douche stick filling my nose it’s pong...
its a social marker saying ‘i’m an addict’if anything it should be administered and controlled like methadone use for heroin addicts.
I always feel a bit sorry for people I see vaping,it just looks a desperate chore.
It may not be as severe as what smoking tobacco does to you but there will be somethingat some point in the future we will find something in the vapour that is killing people.
..perhaps make them do it on derelict brownfield sites well away from the rest of us.
Like fellating robocock.
As I said. Crack on whiners. 😫
Just to say that ain't a meltdown, that is called taking the piss....
Its called desperately clinging on to something to mock, to make you feel superior.
Some people always need something or someone to look down on, to make them feel better about themselves maybe ?
Just because some people have a desperate need to feel superior, and they have decided to pick vaping to aim their impotent whining at.
You sound like children who don’t get there own way, pretty funny but sad at the same time.
Nothing to do with feeling 'superior', the question is, WHY do you feel that non smokers/vapers within a five meter radius (or more), have to put up with your clouds of poison/sickly smelling vapour?
Any activity of an individual that has direct implications for other people that do not want to take part or be involved in said 'activity' that share the space (be it public or otherwise) should have restrictions in place that ensure it is their responsibility to insure they do not impinge or inconvenience other people.
Sitting in a pub garden or cafe enjoying a pint or a coffee on a sunny day only to have someone sit nearby and start blowing out plumes of vapour is anti social. Basically you choose to smoke/vape, we do not choose to share it with you and why you think if we don't like it we are the ones that should move away says so much about you!
The sadness is needing to poison yourself with the fags or buying into the unproven hype and marketing of vaping lining the pockets of the baccy companies that have no interest in your wellbeing in the slightest.
Neal, what's your opinion on smokes since you quit? Do you still have the occasional one or does the smell turn your stomach (and everywhere in between)?
Interested to know as since you vape I assume you're still addicted to nicotine? If that's so I'm interested to know how you'd deal with cravings if you couldn't get hold of a vape thing? Would you just crack on or would a cheeky Marlboro Light be required until you could get another E-Cig?
Genuinely not a loaded question, I'm just interested as an ex-smoker. It was always the cravings that got me but using the E-Cig weened me off the habit and once I'd broken that (One in the morning, one on the way to work, one at dinner time, etc replaced with a quick toot if I got a craving) I found it easy to just stop all of it. I imagine if I'd just replaced tabs with the electric version I'd still have smoked the occasional real one so been vulnerable to taking it up again. I liked smoking you see, or at least the one every now and then that really hit the spot. I'm long enough stopped now though to never want to go back.
the question is, WHY do you feel that non smokers/vapers within a five meter radius (or more), have to put up with your clouds of poison/sickly smelling vapour?
I don’t.
Do you have any other questions ?
..why you think if we don’t like it we are the ones that should move away says so much about you!
Making claims about me based on things I haven’t said says so much about YOU 👍
The sadness is needing to poison yourself with the fags or buying into the unproven hype and marketing of vaping lining the pockets of the baccy companies
10 years smoke free and fit as a fiddle isn’t “unproven hyper marketing” its just a fact
And nothing I buy to make my juice or vape it has lined the pockets of any tobacco companies. I’m sure that would be possible if I looked into it and tried, but currently I don’t
Menthol crystals from a herbalist online, Glycerine from Boots, distilled water, Nicotine juice from a specialist manufacturer in Chesterfield. Hardware from a Manufactuter in Greece that started out making custom vapes for himself 11 years ago and grew.
No “big tobacco” involvement at all
Neal, what’s your opinion on smokes since you quit? Do you still have the occasional one or does the smell turn your stomach (and everywhere in between)?
Interested to know as since you vape I assume you’re still addicted to nicotine? If that’s so I’m interested to know how you’d deal with cravings if you couldn’t get hold of a vape thing? Would you just crack on or would a cheeky Marlboro Light be required until you could get another E-Cig?
The smell doesn’t tun my stomach (if it’s fresh it’s quite nice still actually)
but I had my last cigarette while opening the parcel that was my first ecig in Oct 2008.
I do still have nicotine in my juice, but I make my own can fine tune it, and it’s about as weak now as a 2-3 per day smoker. So no massive issues if I forget it. Just habit and mild annoyance, same as if I forgot my phone I suppose.
Would honestly never even cross my mind to have a cigarette.
I don’t smoke 👍
10 years smoke free and fit as a fiddle isn’t “unproven hyper marketing” its just a fact
And nothing I buy to make my juice or vape it has lined the pockets of any tobacco companies. I’m sure that would be possible if I looked into it and tried, but currently I don’t
Menthol crystals from a herbalist online, Glucerine from Boots, Nicotine juice from a specialist manufacturer in Chesterfield. Hardware from a Manufactuter in Greece that started out making custom vapes for himself 11 years ago and grew.
No “big tobacco” involvement at all
Your a rarity then, the links I posted above tell you how much the big tobacco companies are in this game. Also a rarity in not thinking it's acceptable to do it right next to people or in places where it's not allowed - see Manchester Tram platforms....
The crowds of people outside train stations or offices tell a very different story, the money being made by big tobacco tells another one.
The DIY option also reminds us as to how unregulated the whole industry is, chances are most people don't know what is in their vape, and others can put what they like in them.
the links I posted above tell you how much the big tobacco companies are in this game.
To be honest, the links you posted show that 80% of the market is nothing to do with the Tobacco Companies.
And as someone who is very familiar with the brands that are available (10 years experience) I have never heard of any of the brands that ARE owned by the tobacco companies.
The list of Independants though, I am familiar with most of them.
Tobacco companies are a TINY player in the market.
The DIY option also reminds us as to how unregulated the whole industry is,
Not really, a DIY option is always available if you do some research and find out how to do it. (Whatever it is)
There are loads of regulations that have been applied to the industry over time. I used to be able to buy 5000ml tubs of 75% nicotine solution. Now I can buy a max size of 10ml and max strength of 18%
due to it being well regulated
and that’s just as a “civilian” actual manufacturers have had massive regulation changes in the last few years. I know a few of them quite well, and they are constantly changing.
To call it an “unregulated industry” is greatly misinformed I’m afraid.
Thanks for that Neal. I see, you've reduced the nicotine to a point where you can control it. Similar to what I did I suppose as the E-Cigs I used were pretty naff and didn't give much of a hit. Made packing them in surprisingly easy in the end. I never really enjoyed the electric version so had no desire to keep up with them.
the E-Cigs I used were pretty naff and didn’t give much of a hit. Made packing them in surprisingly easy in the end.
Sounds like you hit the sweet spot though. Good enough to help you quit smoking, but not good enough to make you want to carry on.
At the level of Nicotine I take every day, I am almost certain that my Caffiene intake would be more of a concern, if I was looking at quitting something.
The fact I make my own juice and know exactly what goes into it does help. But any juice bought from an actual business (not a market stall!) will have strict controls as to what goes into it.
But on a business level, the base ingredients are sooooo cheap, that switching them for something else would be more expensive anyway.
I think they are a revelation.
What does bug me though are those that put out huge plumes of vapour, that is antisocial but that's to do with the type of liquid used, most are a combination of PG and VG, forget which is which but one causes much more visible vapor if the ratio is out of whack.
Also some devices are much more high power.
I have a fairly standard vape but I can adjust the power on it to produce loads of vapour but it's pointless, I have it an a low /medium setting and if I take small drags rather than lungs full there's hardly any visible vapor compared to some and it disperses in tenths of a second as opposed to the idiots who pump out Cumulonimbus clouds.
the idiots who pump out Cumulonimbus clouds.
This is the issue.
Its not vaping that causes the problems.
Its idiots. (As always, with everything)
I sometimes ramp up the power and take a big hit (it’s nice) but only when I’m out and about somewhere or on my own etc.
Walking through town, I would take smaller hits and not on high power. Hardly any vapour and doesn’t last at all.
Funny how we always roll our eyes at the idiots who moan about “Cyclists” in general, because some go through red lights ir whatever.
But it’s somehow ok to do exactly the same to any other group as long as you aren’t part of it. 👍
ts not vaping that causes the problems.
Its idiots. (As always, with everything)
But you are only going to notice the idiots aren't you and laws are there to protect us from those idiots.
But you are only going to notice the idiots aren’t you and laws are there to protect us from those idiots
Which is why it’s foolish to mock and talk down to a whole wide ranging group based on the actions of a few of them ?
I’m not disagreeing with the current laws/regulations, they are all fine with me.
It’s fine for you to have your addiction but no need to share it with the rest of us.
I feel much the same about crowds of pissed up arseholes ruining town and city centres for everyone else.
I don't see too many people getting their aspirational underwear in a twist about that.
Its called desperately clinging on to something to mock, to make you feel superior.
In shock news person physically and mentally mentally addicted to substance cannot see any issue with said substance and feels people might be picking on them when they have the piss taken...
seriously the government should not be promoting addiction in any form
I feel much the same about crowds of pissed up arseholes ruining town and city centres for everyone else.
I don’t see too many people getting their aspirational underwear in a twist about that.
You obviously have not been looking very hard as there is always someone banging on about pissheads being a pain in the rectum. Mind you 20% of adults smoke and around 60% drink so there is an easier target. Times change, what was once normal is now unacceptable in many areas
Which is why it’s foolish to mock and talk down to a whole wide ranging group based on the actions of a few of them ?
Yep, which is why I haven't done that.
5 years ago I smoked 20 bensons a day. Now I dont.
This has made my life infinitely better in lots of ways. I’d imagine it’s made other people’s life infinitely better too.
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Chill the **** out! For everyone’s sake! Not least, your own
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Somebody keeps slipping to nicotine free in there......
Anyway as the thread started people were per$uading MP'$ to allow it indoors and on public transport. That is what people really don't want.
In shock news person physically and mentally mentally addicted to substance cannot see any issue with said substance and feels people might be picking on them when they have the piss taken…
Youve clearly not read much of what I’ve posted have you 🙄
Shock news, someone who is desperate to feel superior about something, didn’t bother reading the thread properly and just jumped in and had a pop.
Where did I say I cannot see any issue with it ?
I find it laughable that people consider e-cigs a wonderful thing. For sure it’s better than cigs but Nicotine is harmful to your body.
The op was regarding if MPs should be changing the rules to basically boost the profits of “big tobacco” and hook in another generation.
Times have changed and the majority of the public no longer smoke. As such people expect public spaces to reflect this
i don’t know any smokers or vapers who would actively recommend it to their kids. Would you go out and tell young people to take it up?
There is no properly verified scientific research to confirm that vaping is, in no way, damaging to health or is a successful long-term means to stop smoking. Having said that, even the disgusting chemical strawberry aroma is preferable to cigarette smoke.
Full disclosure - I worked for Imperial Tobacco for 20 years and enjoyed a good living on the back of that. In their library they had a book with the catching title 'smoking is good for you'; published in the US
It pisses me off that vapers wilfully ignore 'no smoking or e-cigarette' signs on the apparent basis that they believe vaping is harmless. Don't forget that it took decades to scientifically prove that smoking was damaging to health.
Vaping still involves holding something, putting it in your mouth and sucking it; it's a substitution for something else.
As for MPs pontificating - wtf do they know (about anything)? They have a public platform and use it; usually long on rhetoric but short on facts - vaping is another example.
Let's not stop the facts - or absence of proven scientific facts - stop anyone from spouting bollocks.
Anyway as the thread started people were per$uading MP’$ to allow it indoors and on public transport. That is what people really don’t want.
Good reminder. Do even the aggravated sounding vaperists on this thread support the change to let everyone vape away indoors and on public transport?
For sure it’s better than cigs but Nicotine is harmful to your body.
Don't smoke, never have but is this actually accurate? Highly addictive sure but I was under the impression that it's the other stuff in cigarettes and the like that are actually harmful.
The harm caused only by nicotine is debateable - if it exists, it is certainly dwarfed by the massive harms caused by cigarettes and their ingredients. There is evidence that it raises blood pressure, may cause accelerated hardening of the arteries, but none of this is conclusive.
The main issue for me is the lack of regulation in the manufacture and ingredients of e-cigarettes and vaping fluids.
This is a review of various studies, and worth a close read for anyone interested in the issue.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743514003739#bb0380
Again, the upshot is that nothing can be as bad as cigarettes, but if cigarettes didn't exist, we might be looking at this relatively safer thing with a more critical eye.
Using e-cigarettes certainly seemed to cause, in some patients, similar kind of short-term effects in the airway as smoking conventional fags - and of particular interest to me was the study which suggested that, in patients genetically susceptible to lung cancer, exposure to vapour caused similar patterns of gene expression in the cells which line the airway. Could this lead to the kind of cell changes which we don't want? We don't know yet.
Again, all small scale, inconclusive studies, but a massive warning light in the debate about allowing these products to be marketed more widely and used more freely in society. Anything which increases the chance of people who would never smoke a cigarette becoming addicted to nicotine cannot be a good thing.
If there are negative effects, they might not emerge for 20 years.
I'm happy for people to swap their Bensons for e-cigs - nothing is as bad as cigarettes. But taking the extra step and removing nicotine from your life altogether is the ideal choice, and hopefully we'll have enough information for it be an informed choice sooner rather than later.
Whether nicotine is bad for you long term or not it is still better to not have to be dependant on a drug. Needing to get a drug to just get you back to normal and beating withdrawal is not great.
Making it more appealing and therefore more people dependant is not the best thing to do is it.
Have you ever considered the totally mad, leftfield idea that maybe people do it not because they feel a tragic slave to their addiction, but because they actually enjoy it?
5 years ago I smoked 20 bensons a day. Now I dont.
This has made my life infinitely better in lots of ways. I’d imagine it’s made other people’s life infinitely better too.
So I frankly couldn’t give a flying * about the petty, sanctimonious bleating of those getting their whiney, snippy, middle-class petticoats all ruffled about getting the odd waft of my menthol vapour as I walk down the street. It’s not like I’m sat in your *ing front room doing it!
Havent read all the thread so maybe you have justification for your post but to me this just sounds like pure me, me, me me. Why would I care about your health? Why should I think oh great he's stopped smoking as I breath in your rank vape stuff? I dont care I about your better life I just want to live mine without myself or my family having to breath in your vape.
The idea that relaxing rules for public spaces would help people switch from smoking to vaping seems laughable to me. Smokers will just smoke elsewhere as will vapers.
Maybe the same me, me, me accusation could be levelled at someone who thinks that just because they don’t personally like something then it should be banned?
Maybe, but I never said it should be, if you want to do it I couldnt care less I just think the current rules regarding vaping shouldnt be relaxed.
it's interesting that our law makers want to relax regulation of e-cigs when other want to strengthen regs
http://cdph.ca.gov/programs/tobacco/Documents/Media/State%20Health-e-cig%20report.pd f">a community health threat
The facts outlined in this report indicate a high need to educate the public regarding safety concerns associated with e-cigarettes. These devices pose a poisoning hazard, particularly for children, but also for adults who may confuse e-liquid bottles with other products. The nicotine in e-cigarettes has lasting health implications to the brain development of teens and young adults, and there are indications that chemicals in e-liquids may pose a respiratory hazard to users and to those exposed to the aerosol emitted from these devices. Furthermore, there are worker safety and biohazard concerns regarding the conditions under which e-liquids are mixed and how materials are disposed. Increasingly, there are reports from schools and law enforcement agencies about the use of these e-cigarettes for other illicit substances.
The adverse health effects of e-cigarettes and their by-products make it clear that these products should be strictly regulated. Restrictions on marketing to youth and access by youth, protections to prevent poisonings—particularly among children—and education of the public on the dangers of e-cigarettes are important measures to take to address this growing public health threat.
I don't see any need to relax the rules on vaping, although it really doesn't bother me. Smokers and vapers have adapted to the current restrictions without any major issues.
Regarding the health issues, although there may be some unknowns at the moment, does anyone really think it's going to be anyway comparable to tobacco? Surely it can't really be any different from going in a sauna? Lots of water vapour with lots of stuff in it? (Including other peoples sweat."
Does anyone on here actually believe inhaling 2nd hand vape, on the street or in a beer garden, could offer any kind of significant health risk? Seriously? Have you ever put anything in the boot of a car when the engine is running? Have you ever stood on a platform when a diesel engine is pulling away? Ever welded, soldered, or brazed anything? There's a few divers on here, think of the concentrations of crap you get when breathing compressed air at 4 times atmospheric, no matter how well you think it has been filtered. The high PP's of the crap that comes of the inside of your steel cylinder will be way more harmful than some flavoured water.
Your diesel Audis are a much bigger problem that a bit of vape.
Isn't this whole thing just a debate at this point? I can't see any way that the rules will change. I don't think anyone is going to expect to be vaping away in the office or on the train? I know I'm certainly not.
I'm sure that simple fact won't lower the saddles on any elevated equines though 😉
Have you ever considered the totally mad, leftfield idea that maybe people do it not because they feel a tragic slave to their addiction, but because they actually enjoy it?
Of of course people enjoy it, it’s a stimulant! The fact that some people go through withdrawal when they stop smoking says something about the addictive nature.
As for nicotine being harmful the bulk of the work seems to be based around the full portfolio of mess that is in cigs. I do remember being told when an elderly relative lost the use of their legs that artery hardening could be brought on by nicotine. Some studies may suggest this but the data is still limited.
i would imagine that many of the people on here are old enough to remember smoking on planes, trains etc. Hell during freshers week cigarette companies came to my uni to give out 20packs and lighters. If you walked around different bars you could easily pick up a cartons worth. They kept doing this until around 2000 which seems crazy looking back.
sure e-cigs are better than cigs. The bulk of my family still smoke and if it could help them cut down I would recommend it. However, I do not believe that it should be promoted to a new generation.
I don't smoke or vape but I don't mind a bit of passive vape-smoke either. That said I wouldn't want to be a on a bus with limited ventilation and people puffing away. Probably be dangerous anyway, the driver wouldn't be able to see out after a few minutes :p
As for availability on the NHS, I guess if nicotine patches/gum already is then it's not really any different - presumably would be time-limited and part of a monitored weening-off-permanently programme.
Nicotine is present in potatoes and tomatoes.... by itself it's not a particularly nasty substance in small amounts, pretty comparable to caffein.
Cigarette smoke however contains other chemicals and 2 of them in particular make the some more addictive and several others more harmful than vapour. (I don't remember the names right now)
Second hand vapour contains almost no nicotine... despite a lot of people conducting tests specifically to proove otherwise because it condenses very quickly. In one test they published that they found aluminium oxides.. it was all they could find... but then questions were asked as to where the aluminium came from as it wasn't present in the device or liquid... and it turned out someone had used a spray deodorant BEFORE leaving home for the test.
It does however still contain the flavourings but loo at that in the context of walking down a street, walking past burning rubbish in a park etc. There is really no difference in carcinogens between burning any other leaves and tobacco leaves...
I'm allergic to something in many perfumes... like skin rash and blisters from contact and streaming and stinging eyes and headache from vapour but I'm not suggesting banning their use in public spaces... luckily the ingredient seems to be something old fashioned (Chanel 5 contains it)
Why do people vape (or smoke) outside stations?
Alan Carr summed this up in his give up smoking book way before vaping was invented. Restrictions just end up with people smoking/vaping more... i.e. before you get into an uncontrolled situation where you might not... and then as soon as you get out.
Why is it appropriate for some people?
Different people have different tolerances for different addictions.
I personally never found alcohol difficult to stop... despite at times being a heavy drinker (a bottle of spirits most days) I could just stop... smoking however was completely different. It would be hypocritical of me to suggest alcoholism or other addictions that are/were easy for me to quit are easy for everyone.
I also tried the champix type stuff... this sent me loopy very quickly. Let's just say my neighbour was a nurse and her son had bad reactions... but the way it screwed with my head I didn't realise how it was messing.
Those that still smoke will mainly have tried everything else... and it hasn't worked.
Obviously most wish they had never started but we are where we are.
Restricting vaping products (or similar) is a mixed bag. Quite honestly I wouldn't want to see people taking it up but its also not a great idea to make it harder to get than the "real things".
despite at times being a heavy drinker (a bottle of spirits most days)
Thats not heavy drinking thats hard core alcoholism