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A 69-year-old Dutch “positivity guru” who says he does not feel his age has started a battle to make himself legally 20 years younger on the grounds that he is being discriminated against on a dating app.
Emile Ratelband told a court in Arnhem in the Netherlands that he did not feel “comfortable” with his date of birth, and compared his wish to alter it to people who identified as transgender.
Interesting to see how this works out
Feels over reals.
See also transability/transabled.
Edit: not forgetting transracial, transspecies and of course the original.
Think this has to be fair. I don't see how it can be disputed without discriminating.
It's a crazy ****ed up world we live in and it's seemingly getting worse every day. Do we not have anything else worth getting upset about?
MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!!!!!!
What a prick.
If he wins, i'm next in line to lop off 20 years - WoooHoooo! Go Emile!
I identify as being a billionaire - can someone update my bank account?
What a prick
Must be a very graphic dating app.
Think this has to be fair. I don’t see how it can be disputed without discriminating.
Because he was born on the day he was born. That’s a fact, an immutable fact.
On the other hand. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.
can I identify as post-retirement age and start collecting pension?
I don’t see how it can be disputed without discriminating
I think since the gender thing with people being allowed to identify as something they're not the floodgates are opened now and you'll be able to identify yourself as anything you want.
I might try taking a piss against a lamppost next time I walk into town and if I get challenged about it I'll just say I identify as a dog so it's fine!
Troll level: transgenerational.
Chapeau!
I might try taking a piss against a lamppost next time I walk into town and if I get challenged about it I’ll just say I identify as a dog so it’s fine!
Fantastic!
can I identify as post-retirement age and start collecting pension?
I'm in, 8yrs older please 👍 And thats being conservative, most days it's more like 20yrs !!
people being allowed to identify as something they’re not
No, they aren't.
Ffs, this place...
I’m going to start taking a shit in my neighbours garden, sleeping under cars and giving people looks of utter disdain. That’s right, I’m going to identify as a cat.
I’m going to start taking a shit in my neighbours garden, sleeping under cars and giving people looks of utter disdain. That’s right, I’m going to identify as a cat.
That’s fine, but society reserves the right to cut off your nuts and put a chip in you .
Would it not have been easier to just set up another account with his age adjusted?
Surely though, when anyone sees his picture they will clock he's not 49?!?!?!?
Absolute madness.
That’s fine, but society reserves the right to cut off your nuts and put a chip in you
I’m currently identifying as a dog, so way ahead of you on that front.
Stupid this is even newsworthy but on the crazy chance he actually wins then I'd apply to be 15 years older so I can retire (and somehow make a case for 15 years of pension contributions being automatically added..)
I'm not sure I approve of his purpose, but being able to legally identify as younger may be an advantage for middle aged people who are reaching "that age" where the bosses say, "Yeah, they're good, but we'll pick the younger guy".
I've uncovered quite a few instances of it in my family when doing ancestry research.
The best was a grand aunt whose husband only discovered she was 10 years older when he did the paperwork for her death. He was a young buck over from Canada in WW1 and she was a 31 year old spinster who transformed into 21 year old.
On the other hand what happens when a 45 year old decides to identify as 65 years old and rolls up to collect a pension? 🙂
No, they aren’t.
Ffs, this place…
This person was allowed...
where the bosses say, “Yeah, they’re good, but we’ll pick the younger guy”.
It's mainly because the younger guy is much cheaper.
When I’m on Tinder and it says I’m 69, I don’t get an answer. When I’m 49, with the face I have, I will be in a luxurious position.”
ewww.
I was hoping he was making a novel stand against age descrimination, but in fact he’s just an aging perv who probably thinks all women are shallow.
I suspect his answer to the obvious question that he date women his own age, is that he’s already had them all.
I might try taking a piss against a lamppost next time I walk into town and if I get challenged about it I’ll just say I identify as a dog so it’s fine!
This worries me because I identify as a lamppost.
This makes the case of the adult schoolboys in the news quite interesting! If we allowed age transitioning or whatever it would be called it would make service provision mighty tricky.
The changing for pension purposes is a great plan, I'll skip to 67 now, take 10 years retirement whilst I'm "young fit and able" then I'll clock my age back and work till I'm dead to make up the contributions whilst I'm a dribbling incontinent chair bound wreck.
He's an "entrepreneur", so probably just permanently looking for ways to get attention. This is obv. a pretty good one.
For those of you equating this frippery with transgender people, I have no words to describe your ignorance within the forum rules.
This makes the case of the adult schoolboys in the news quite interesting!
There was a case a couple years ago of a grown man who identified/acted like a toddler in a Canadian university. The female staff who had to put up with his nonsense got no support when they complained to the university about his harassment and were asked to keep teaching him. The guy had some weird baby fetish.
Can he not just lie about his date of birth on the dating site, like every other bugger ?
Why doesn’t he just lie about his age?
edit - way too slow (that’ll be my age)
Can he not just lie about his date of birth on the dating site, like every other bugger ?
See, there's the thing, of course he could. But then he'd find women still wouldn't go for him, so he'd have to start a legal fight to not be considered ugly and another one not to be considered an absolute arsehole. Good luck in the courts granddad.
For those of you equating this frippery with transgender people, I have no words to describe your ignorance
I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread (I might have missed it), but can you spell out the difference so nobody makes that mistake in future?
What an utter idiot!
I haven’t seen anyone do that in this thread (I might have missed it), but can you spell out the difference so nobody makes that mistake in future?
It's so multifaceted I'm unlikely to do it in a post, but here are a few bits. There are something like 17 different chromosomal abnormalities that make gender incredibly complicated. Some of these are edge cases that affect people invisibly without them ever fully realising. Some are more obvious edge cases that lead parents and doctors to make early decisions that can become incredibly distressing for people later in life. None of this is in any scientific dispute, it's evidence, not ideology that's put this in our laws and the NHS.
In the nineties I said something ignorant, and it was a conservative Christian nurse who set me straight on how complicated and non-binary gender can be. A lot of her peers and beliefs had been stacked against her understanding or acknowledging that, but she chose to go with the facts of what she'd seen and had to deal with professionally.
Thirty years later we still have gender essentialist idiots on forums though, who tend to take the bit about identification and make hilarious jokes about it. If they actually looked into the GRA and process of changing gender, or knew any trans people well at all, they'd understand that it's absolutely hellish and no one commits to it for a giggle.
Every process in our society has a minority of bad actors, but in respect of gender, reactionary and alt-right types point to them in attempts to imply all trans people are insincere or wrong or something. That car insurance thing for instance: it's a story about the law being an ass. There are equally ridiculous loopholes in other parts of the law, which is inevitable in such a complex system, but this one happens to relate to gender. Good luck to "David" if she's being disingenuous and ever has to make a claim - the insurance company will be all over that. The story fundamentally tells us nothing about trans people and isn't about them, but by association transphobes can use it as a wedge to try and drive their hateful views deeper into society.
In this way, the 69 year old guru campaigning to legally change his age has more in common with transphobes than trans people.
There are something like 17 different chromosomal abnormalities that make gender incredibly complicated
Are you referring to gender or sex?
I currently identify as a urine kettle.
This sort of thing really boils my piss.
they’d understand that it’s absolutely hellish and no one commits to it for a giggle
The internet appears to be awash with people doing exactly that. Well, not a giggle, more a way to asset power over women.
Latest example: Jessica Yaniv, a Canadian transwoman has filed 16 human rights complaints against women who don't want to wax 'her' balls. Jessica also asked for advice on forums on how to show young girls to insert a tampon, but claims their login was hacked and the didn't write this.
Wow, yeah, it's almost like transphobes have some sort of agenda to give such edge cases disproportionate attention and repeatedly shove them in our faces, eh? hmm, oh my god, why would they do such a thing. I'm not going to repeat myself, even if you do.
Are you referring to gender or sex?
I used gender there but it affects both. Obviously they're not the same thing but they interact.
I used gender there but it affects both. Obviously they’re not the same thing but they interact.
Well yes, but the biological issues you referred to are directly related to sex, I think.
can you spell out the difference so nobody makes that mistake in future?
It’s so multifaceted I’m unlikely to do it in a post, but here are a few bits. There are something like 17 different chromosomal abnormalities that make gender incredibly complicated. Some of these are edge cases that affect people invisibly without them ever fully realising. Some are more obvious edge cases that lead parents and doctors to make early decisions that can become incredibly distressing for people later in life. None of this is in any scientific dispute, it’s evidence, not ideology that’s put this in our laws and the NHS.
In the nineties I said something ignorant, and it was a conservative Christian nurse who set me straight on how complicated and non-binary gender can be. A lot of her peers and beliefs had been stacked against her understanding or acknowledging that, but she chose to go with the facts of what she’d seen and had to deal with professionally.
Thirty years later we still have gender essentialist idiots on forums though, who tend to take the bit about identification and make hilarious jokes about it. If they actually looked into the GRA and process of changing gender, or knew any trans people well at all, they’d understand that it’s absolutely hellish and no one commits to it for a giggle.
Every process in our society has a minority of bad actors, but in respect of gender, reactionary and alt-right types point to them in attempts to imply all trans people are insincere or wrong or something. That car insurance thing for instance: it’s a story about the law being an ass. There are equally ridiculous loopholes in other parts of the law, which is inevitable in such a complex system, but this one happens to relate to gender. Good luck to “David” if she’s being disingenuous and ever has to make a claim – the insurance company will be all over that. The story fundamentally tells us nothing about trans people and isn’t about them, but by association transphobes can use it as a wedge to try and drive their hateful views deeper into society.
In this way, the 69 year old guru campaigning to legally change his age has more in common with transphobes than trans people.
That doesn't seem to spell out the difference at all, seems to totally dodge the question. Why is it not valid to believe to feel strongly that you're a different age you your 'actual' age but is valid to feel strongly that you're a different gender? I genuinely don't feel may age, and it's pretty common for elderly people to tell you they still feel 30 or whatever. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just asking you to spell out the difference, so others don't make the mistake you're warning of.
Pointing out there's a vast body of medical and cultural evidence for one causing people intense psychological pain, but not the other, is dodging the question? Jog on 😀
there’s a vast body of medical and cultural evidence for one causing people intense psychological pain, but not the other
Thanks for stating your view of the difference. It would have been a *lot* quicker to simply write "One causes people intense psychological pain but not the other.".
Is anyone really “male” or “female”?
makes you think
who probably thinks all women are shallow
they are (and men too).
When is someone finally going to get round to removing the “B” from LGBT?! Totally out of date now
Back on topic, I can’t wait to be 20 years younger!
there’s a vast body of medical and cultural evidence for one causing people intense psychological pain, but not the other
which is not the same as not causing pain, just no one may have collected the evidence yet.
which is not the same as not causing pain, just no one may have collected the evidence yet.
...and if pain is the measure of validity then Trans-people who don't feel "intense psychological pain" are somehow invalid which is harsh to say the least.
Then there's the issue of someone who *is* suffering "intense psychological pain" due to a mismatch of their own perception of their age and their "calender-age". That person *is* valid under the 'pain' criteria.
So is 'pain' a differentiator at all?
Probably best not to judge people at all, but if you are going to judge people, at least pick a decent metric.
Anyway, now he's famous and all the Tinder wimminz know how old he actually is, changing his age will be a bit pointless eh.
[i]That person *is* valid under the ‘pain’ criteria.[/i]
Oh, I can assure you that there is a lot of pain involved when using Tinder.
he’d have to start a legal fight to not be considered ugly
Now that really *does* pass the pain test. Being considered ugly by society when you know you're not really does cause “intense psychological pain”. DAMHIKIJDOK.
It would have been a *lot* quicker to simply write “One causes people intense psychological pain but not the other.”.
in the interests of decent forum debate, there is no reason to deny a person the right to record a detailed account of their opinion - especially where it appears well written and reasoned - rather than attempting to capture it in easily digestible bites for the baying crowds.
Had nach just written the short comment, we would not have the benefit of its basis of opinion on what is clearly a deeply upsetting topic of conversation for some people. Perhaps, oob, you could keep your responses to less than sixty characters so we don’t have to wade through the chaff.
Perhaps, oob, you could keep your responses to less than sixty characters
Ack.
Does that mean if he wins he can only claim his pension 20 years later?
Does that mean if he wins he can only claim his pension 20 years later?
He did apparently say he's happy to give up his pension as part of the ruling... should he win.
Although I imagine him to be wealthy enough to have plenty of income so not to need a state pension.
which is not the same as not causing pain, just no one may have collected the evidence yet.
Ageism is also an issue in our society, but if you think people in their 40's not wanting to bang a dude who's nearly 70 is ageism, I have some great deals to offer you on bridges.
OOB: thanks for all the very clear indicators for everyone to ignore your whataboutery.
A 69-year-old Dutch “positivity guru”
He must be a pretty shyte "positivity guru" if he can't be positive about himself and his age.
Anyway, now he’s famous and all the Tinder wimminz know how old he actually is, changing his age will be a bit pointless eh.
Not necessarily.
"Don't I recognise you?"
"No, I don't think so".
"Yes I do, you're the guy who changed his age so he could get his leg over with some younger totty"
"No, I identify as someone who has always been 20 years younger so I can't be the same person you're thinking of"
"But you look like you're 70, not 50"
"I identify as someone who had a hard paper round as a child, which wasn't as long ago as you think"
"Well, drop that zimmer and rip my knickers off then"
How can it fail?
<p>When is someone finally going to get round to removing the “B” from LGBT?! Totally out of date now</p>
<p>Oh believe me, there are plenty in that "community" who would love to see the back of the B's (not fully committed you see).</p><p></p><p>As for the difference, as said transexuals have biology and science on there side, age dysphoria does not since a persons age is simply a measure of time passed since birth. Unless he's going to tell us he's a time traveller he's failed at the first hurdle.</p>
Unless he’s going to tell us he’s a time traveller he’s failed at the first hurdle.
Next thing you are going to tell me The Doctor is a woman
Although I imagine him to be wealthy enough to have plenty of income so not to need a state pension.
If he had plenty income/wealth he wouldn't need to go to court to become younger in order to match with the ladies. It's not like wealthy older men are kryptonite to attractive young women.
Next thing you are going to tell me The Doctor is a woman
illegal alien who currently identifies as a woman actually
Thing is if he looks 49 he is a very aged 49! To me he looks into his 60s
If he's successful I kind of hope that some woman meets him, shags him and then reports him to the police cos she identifies as an 8 year old.
Serve the **** right.
He's still going to die in the next 20 years. Probably be better spending his time and energy enjoying those years rather than wasting them being a tossbag..
As for the difference, as said transexuals have biology and science on there side, age dysphoria does not since a persons age is simply a measure of time passed since birth.
That's different to Nach's 'pain' difference, but leaving that aside is age simply a measure of time passed since birth? In one sense it is but I doubt this guy is asking to have the date he was born changed. I think age in this context is about aligning his age in years to the age the believes/feels is appropriate to him. That is different and loads of people feel an age different to their calendar age. In fact I think all of us do, which is why I'm surprised this is remotely controversial. (Well the legal aspect might be, but the fact someone feels a different age to their calendar age shouldn't be.)
People regularly mistake me as being around 10-15 years younger than I am, but my increasingly achy knees and shoulder are adding the same amount to how old I feel, and meanwhile my brain insists I’m actually around forty years younger than I actually am.
I’m confused 😐
I’d happily say I’m 20 years older and get my state pension now.