[Closed] DSLR - where do you start?

from a similar position about a year ago i ended up with a Sony A55 with a dual lens kit (18-55 and 55-200)

My approach was to got into the shop and handle the cameras for best fit in the hand etc

The crucial thing i found when handeling them was that the canon and nikon menus were difficult to understand and use without having a good idea what u were on about. The sony was usable straight from the off without the manual.

We then just looked up the reviews of that camera to check it wasnt a complete donkey!

I also have a Sony. Much as I presume titusrider did, I wanted something capable for me to 'grow' into but with fairly easy use out the box. Also I have quite big hands and found the Nikon's and Canons a bit small in my hand with the buttons quite close together. The Sony has been more than enough for me and has the added bonus of being able to run old Minolta lenses which are often cheap on eBay.

Where do I start? What do I look for? How do I tell a good one from a donkey?

Much like bikes, if you go with a big name no-one really makes a donkey these days. Also much like bikes, one of the most important things is how it feels to you, not the specs so much.

So go into a shop, ask them to let you have a go of some Nikon, Canon, Sony stuff, get them to explain to you how it works, see which ones feel like they make sense to you, feel right in your hands etc.

(FWIW I use panasonic mirrorless cameras, micro 4/3, as I like the slightly smaller system+lenses, and being able to use pretty much any old lens with a cheap adapter)

There aren't actually [i]that[/i] many DSLRs on the market. They are split into two categories consumer and professional. There are a lot of moving parts on an SLR and professional cameras are built to take the knocks with metal casings and sealed buttons etc. Consumer SLRs have similar guts but are not sealed or robust. The difference in pricing is quite dramatic.

Depending on whether you decide to go consumer or pro, as with everything these days the differences between different models in the same price bracket are minimal, every base is covered.

Enthusiasts will argue over sensor size and colour matching and lens distortion etc etc but you can go on forever like this.

The only other thing I would add is that the 18-55 kit lens that comes with most DSLRs is not very versatile and if you can get a body separately it will be a big help

I'd start here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm

I really rate his reviews (although I know some people hate him).

I went from D80 -> D7000 -> D4 and his reviews are spot on.

The bottom line is that it can get incredibly complicated.
First point is probably that they're all great, so don't stress over it too much

Then it's going to come down to

price
size
viewfinder or screen or both
button positions/menu layout
how comfortable you feel with a brand
availability and price of accessories

For a quick overview, here are some review scores from a dependable source:
http://www.dpreview.com/camerareviews/?category=slrs&order=rating

Lens-wise, a kit lens or a better quality kit lens replacement will do for starters, then you can work out what the shortcomings are once you've found what you enjoy.

Canon or Nikon, see if you can get an upgraded lens instead of the stock, i've got a f4.5-5.6 (i think) 17-85 which is very nice.
then buy one of their cheap f1.8 50mm primes as a second lens.

what's you budget?
(makes choosing a lot simpler)

canon or nikon is the way to go loads of used lenses around spend as much as you can on the lens lot of canon 40d bodys about second hand which is a cracking body

Do you still need a telephoto, wide angle and a host of others to get the result you are looking for

Depends. What results are you looking for?

As for choice: The 'big two' are Canon and Nikon. Each has nominal strengths and weaknesses but overall there's little to choose between them. The biggest difference I found is in their interface; personally, I found Canon to be highly intuitive and Nikon utterly confusing, but some people find the opposite. What works for you, only you will know. So, the best advice here would be to get some hands-on time in a shop.

Bear in mind that you're not just buying a camera body, you're investing in a system. It's worth looking at accessories to see if what you want is available and affordable (again, for me personally, Canon won out here). Also, do you have any friends with dSLRs? Buying into the same system would mean you could potentially borrow kit and crib advice.

Outside of the Canon / Nikon arena are a number of [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_interchangeable-lens_camera ]CSC[/url] manufacturers. These give you considerably smaller cameras at the expense of a couple of design compromises. Principally, you lose the through-the-lens optical viewfinder and have a physically smaller sensor. That said, the technology is reasonably mature now and there's some very good options out there. (After months of researching, my OH now has a Panasonic CSC camera and loves it; for her, the full-size dSLR body was prohibitively large, she'd never have taken it out anywhere.)

Lots of reading...thanks, lunchtime activity now organised! 🙂

As above, really.
For me, I couldn't decide between Canon & the equivalent Nikon until I held them in the shop. I instantly felt more at home with the Nikon.

Have a think about what you want to take pics of and what lenses you might need. I got an 18-135 for general stuff and a 70-300 with stabilization for motorsport & wildlife stuff.

Nikon had a few things at the time that swayed me further. Nikon do a small infra-red remote for about £15 and I think most of their bodies are fitted with the sensor to detect it. That is a cheap way to get a remote release.
Also, Nikon has a better wireless flash system than Canon. Well, it seemed to at the time. But, it does depend on which body you get as to just how versatile this is. For example my D80 will act as a commander to control a flash wirelessly, whereas a mate's D40 doesn't.

Re Nikon vs Canon - I'd say go for whatever your friends / colleagues use as it's good for exchanging tips / borrowing lenses etc. We're all Nikonians where I work and have pretty much the full set of FX/DX cameras / lenses between us all.

I'd also consider what any mates who are into photography have, the value of being able to borrow and buy and sell from reliable sources should not be underestimated, you could also get feedback from them on what they have etc etc.

EDIT: Oops, what footflaps says!

I was in a similar position to you with a generous 40th b'day present from t'other half earlier this year. I ended up with a Canon, as having a Canon cheap compact I was already familiar with their menus, layout etc. With the budget we had I went for the 550D, as I didnt think the updates on the newer 600D (mainly the multi-angle view screen) were worth the extra.

I sat down with the manual (a first for me) before our first photogenic trip and was surprised how useful it was. Canon has a Creative-Auto setting which is basically a novice-friendly way of introducing changing key settings such as aperture which I've found useful and useable (having sworn off fully auto as I want to learn how to get the most from my camera).

My brother who is a semi professional photographer uses Canon pro-level stuff, but has just bought a Panasonic Lumix compact system camera for his other half. Small body, big quality lenses.

Hopefully some content here useful to you

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/dslr-advice

I wouldn't. Have had a whole range of DSLRs culminating in a Canon 7D. Recently purchased Olympus OMD E_M5 and all the Canon gear - lenses and all - has been sold.

DSLR just too big - to the point where I ended up with 4 or 5 cameras trying to cover all the bases. The M5 is perfect for just about everything. With a 20mm pancake lens it is a compact camera. Image quality is easily on a par with the 7D. Burst speed is as fast in fact faster. All in all I won't be going back to SLR size gear.

All good advice here and I echo IA and AlexSimmon's posts.

FWIW I'm a Canon man but always tell folk to try the different brands.

You didn't mention video which is very popular and on this basis I would also suggest looking at the micro 4/3 kit from the likes of Panasonic etc.

Tough one - personally I would get the cheapest Nikon you can find, even secondhand D80 or D60x and a 50mm 1.8 prime lens and you will be in a wiinning position to start shooting. The you can sell the body whenh you think you need to and probably loose very little ££££

Another good resource from Ken http://froknowsphoto.com/

I don't find a DSLR too big at all - I carry a D7000 + Telephoto lens on every MTB ride, just stuffed in the top of my Camelbak. Around 2kg, but so is the bladder, so it's no big deal.

Once you get used to the quality of DSLR photos, you (well me) find it impossible to be satisfied with a compact. The main thing is instant shutter response, and a high frame rate for getting actions shots.

For an entry level camera, I cannot reccomend the Nikon D40 highly enough. I've had mine a few years now. Fantastic entry level DSLR, a bit smaller than most of the others and you can pick them up on ebay for under £200 usually.

It came with the 18-55mm lense, and I've since bought a 35mm prime lense which is better in lower light.

I found the menu system very easy to get to grips with, but then I've never tried a Canon or otherwise.

I found this book pretty good at teaching me what all the buttons did..
[img] [/img]

Some pics what I done took with it...

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

As has been said, Slr's are a system not just a camera body, think about what type of shooting you are most likely to do and look for which of the systems has the best/ best value lenses in that range. Eg sony have a poorer lens range than canon/nikon but have higher specced bodies to compensate.

Generally none of the big manufacturers make lemons, canon, nikon, Sony, pentax all make good cameras.

Avoid lenses with wide ranges as they usually perform poorly. Buy primes if you can, you'll get much better results. Some people have reccomended ken Rockwell, one caveat I would put on his reviews is that he is paid by people to say nice things about their cameras, he used to slate everything canon but more recently has become very nice about them. Also don't read too much into measurebating sites such as DXOMark. My personal face is dpreview.

[source] I used to make a living from photography.

Visit a photography forum like talk photography (sure there's nowt wrong with the advice above but that's where I would be heading)

Go into a shop have a play see what feels 'right' in your hands.

Bugger off and do some more research ask more q's

Then take the plunge.

Good luck it's addictive 🙂

+1 for [url= http://www.dpreview.com/ ]dpreview[/url]

I'm on my second Sony SLR having upgraded from a a300 to an a77 (technically not an SLR because it has a fixed mirror).

I think it's a very personal choice and there really aren't any "bad" cameras around these days. I really like the way Sony cameras feel in the hand and the way the ergomomics just feel "sorted".

True, the lens selection is a bit more limited than Canon/Nikon but there are more than enough choices within the Sony/Minolta range and plenty of SH lenses around on ebay etc. - certainly not the deal breaker that some make out.

Sony are perhaps not as hot on low-light (high ISO) performance but the difference isn't noticeable until you get beyond ISO3200 which is more than enough for what I use the camera for.

I also love the speed of focus in live-view, super quick operation, focus peaking (manual focus assist for macro shots), in-camera HDR, auto-panorama, multi-frame noise reduction and a whole lot of other really neat features which are now becoming standard in the cheaper Sony models.

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/6928767802_6cb6ded960_c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7086/6928767802_6cb6ded960_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartie_c/6928767802/ ]nqf5[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stuartie_c/ ]stuartie_c[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5346/7065997173_255e6e1a2d_c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5346/7065997173_255e6e1a2d_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartie_c/7065997173/ ]South Queensferry[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stuartie_c/ ]stuartie_c[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6865476319_fcb30c0f34_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6865476319_fcb30c0f34_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartie_c/6865476319/ ]adam2[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stuartie_c/ ]stuartie_c[/url], on Flickr

I really rate his reviews (although I know some people hate him).

It's not that people hate ken, he just has some very strange ideas sometimes. From a technical point of view his reviews are pretty much bang on, and to be fair to him he's reviewed pretty much everything.

Just don't go taking tips on saturation settings off him

Don't go anywhere near the forums on dpreview IMO - full of horrible trolls and measurebators.

I quite like Ken but you do sometimes have to take what he says with a pinch of salt - and I'm not a fan of his photography.

Once you get used to the quality of DSLR photos, you (well me) find it impossible to be satisfied with a compact. The main thing is [b]instant shutter response, and a high frame rate[/b] for getting actions shots.

You can get this on Compact System Cameras though.

You can get this on Compact System Cameras though.

You can also get cracking quality straight out of the box with compact cameras. I was disappointed with the results when I moved from my film Canon EOS 300 to a 350d. Tried messing around with the jpeg settings, but I was never truly happy with it until I started shooting RAW. And from that point I never looked back. A dSLR gives you a lot of flexibility if you have the time and patience to learn how to use it. It's not however a magic box for a novice to produce great pictures.

The body is not so much important. Though it ties you in with the choice of lenses available. And it is those that will cost you the serious money!

I'm a semi-pro photographer, shooting weddings, portraits, fashion, sports, events etc... Back from the days when we used to use medium format and 35mm film cameras so I've been in the game quiet a while. 😯

And the best camera for the money at present is the 550D There are newer versions of it out and another one out very soon the 650D

BUT this camera will do all you need it to do. The sensor is the same as the 7D, 60D, 600D the quality of it is fantastic and you will really never really need more than 18 megapixles for personal images.

It lacks the total control you have with the 7D (I have 2 as well as a couple of 550D's) but over all anyone starting out I'd go with a 550D.

My partner uses hers for the same type of work as she is lightly built and finds the 7D's way to heavy for her (especially with the battery pack attached) and once in Lightroom I cannot tell the diffeernce AT ALL from images shot between the 2 types of camera.

Good luck with your final choice what ever it maybe 🙂

550D is indeed extremely nice, and with a prime lens can make a very compact and light package too. I would suggest getting this (or whatever the latest incarnation is) + the 18-135mm kit lens. From then on your shooting habits will pretty much determine what lens you might get the most benefit from next.

Definitely try a few out, it makes a massive difference. Without trying anything I set a budget a few years ago and bought a very nice Canon 450d with twin lens kit which I was very happy with.

Wanted to upgrade to a 7D or perhaps 60D last Oct, and walked out with a Nikon D7000, I have never regretted it.

I think once you've handled a few you'll naturally move towards a system. Would also suggest you think about a basic/cheap body and spend money on the glass, it's what makes the biggest difference.

You will definitely lose money on the body as it depreciates, the glass will generally hold its value. Also, as above, none of the main manufacturers makes a dud any more, so feel free to go for what your drawn too.

Finally, enjoy!

grum - Member

Don't go anywhere near the forums on dpreview IMO - full of horrible trolls and measurebators.

Couldn't agree more, deeply unpleasant.

Getting in to a system can be very expensive;

Here's a cut n paste from a email I sent to a friend yesterday

[img] [/img]

400mm f2.8 - £8700
2X extender - £430
1.4 X extender - £430
EOS 7D with Grip and Kirk L Bracket - £1440
Gitzo tripod - £600
Arca ballhead with Wimberley sidekick - £560

A bargain £12160 though I should point out I hired that lens!

Don't ever moan that bike gear is expensive..... 😆

Blimey! All that just to take a picture of Lidl?.. 😯

Spying on the Lidl carpark?

My best purchase was this lens, use it all the time for sports stuff.

[img] [/img]

Folded ankle anyone?

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/6830708422/ ]Cambridge Nomads 1s vs City 3s [/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr

Well with a 1120mm f/7.8 lens, I would think he'd be able to see the pin number someone types in at the checkout nicely. Pays for itself 😉

Go try them, unless you have very specific uses in mind any good canon/nikon will do more than you ever need. Some of the bridge cameras are also a better bet if you don't want all teh bells and whistles and weight.

Don't go anywhere near the forums on dpreview IMO - full of horrible trolls and measurebators.

Never really found this to be the case but as someone looking to find possible faults with his hardware I enjoy finding the folk who can answer the tech details to the 4th decimal place, provide tests to prove it and point out hardare issues (or non-issues) at 100 yards. I never go to forums for anything other than a bit of sample imagery and fault finding.

😆 😆 to the spying comments.

One of the outputs was this

[img] [/img]

Which is probably my best moon shot.

However I've always maintained that the image quality of full frame sensors plss all over crop sensors. To this day I prefer the IQ from my 5D mk1 to my 7D.

ok that is pretty good m1kea - love the relief of the craters where the sun is almost at a tangent.

Ta

Big Whites are horribly addictive 8)but then so are [url= http://www.pbase.com/m1ke_a/canon_17mm_tse ]tilt shifts[/url].

REALLY not a fan of tilt shift photography for some reason.

I've got a strange afinity to manual focus primes though.

REALLY not a fan of tilt shift photography for some reason.

I think it's like having a website with a black background. Every designer is allowed to do it, once.

The best thing I ever did was go on a short course before making my decision. Our local 'new' university had evening classes and offered some free/very cheap.

The few bits and pieces I picked up from the tutor and fellow classmates were really useful. Tutors tend to explain things in plain English, might have second hand kit for sale, or kit you can borrow from college/uni to see what suits you. And they taught me how to use Photoshop appropriately! It also meant I now have a group of photography mates locally to swap ideas, share transport and kit.

I bought an entry level Nikon D60, which only cost about £450 3 years ago (with a standard kit lens, memory card and spare battery) but you can get them second hand for under £200. As others have said, this was a small investment in a system which you can add to - I added a wide angle lens, a couple of filters and that's been enough to get my by so far.

I even got a tripod from Aldi for £15...

You also don't need seventeen thousand trillion megapixels - I have ten and that's just fine. Quality over quantity and all that.

My website is down now (forgot to pay the bill!) but I took decent images at mtb races, won a few photographic comps and even managed to sell a few prints too.

Just proves you don't need to spend a fortune to make it work.

Happy snapping!

REALLY not a fan of tilt shift photography for some reason.

same argument for the increasing use of (fake) HDR.

Nice moon shot up there ^^^ btw 🙂

REALLY not a fan of tilt shift photography for some reason.

I agree it can be [i]very[/i] overdone and if you look at my little test gallery, only three have the the obvious miniaturisation effect (had to be done as a first play). I was personally much more interested in proper correction, and stitching images together.

Oh and which one's were HDR'd? 😉

My best purchase was this lens, use it all the time for sports stuff.
[img] [/img]

+1 fro Ariadne's comments.

DEFINITELY worth finding like minded folk locally to ask and share with.

I've loaned kit to friends before and in fact still have a mate's 2X extender that I really must give back to him.

The DPR forums can be tedious at best.

The photography section on AVForums is great

Oh and which one's were HDR'd?

Hard to tell as most seem really nicely balanced but I'll guess number 5 was. Not sure what's going on with the angles on the wooden section though, looks a bit optical-illusiony to me.

However I've always maintained that the image quality of full frame sensors plss all over crop sensors. To this day I prefer the IQ from my 5D mk1 to my 7D.

+1

Going to sell the 7D when I get round to it. 🙂