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“Really? citation needed. some drug supply routes are very bad indeed. Many are not. Many are highly professional large scale import or manufacturing businesses but they are not the ones that get the publicity.”
What an absolutely absurd statement. Yes, they’re run professionally, hence the label “organised crime”. They will all use threats and extreme violence to protect their businesses, if you think otherwise then you’re judgement is probably clouded by the effects of weed and pills!
I do agree that some drugs should perhaps be legalised, but, at this moment they are still illegal.
The UK have been the biggest producer and exporter of cannabis for medical and scientific research use in the world for near enough 10 years, shame that our governmen(s) do not trust their own population and make it available to all with age restrictions obviously as cannabis use when young and whilst the brain is developing can cause issues
hey will all use threats and extreme violence to protect their businesses, if you think otherwise then you’re judgement is probably clouded by the effects of weed and pills!
I'd love to know where you evidence is that they all are violent with links to human and sex trafficking
Love the idea that mundanely smoking weed every day is an escape from mundanity.
I've known a few people over the years who routinely smoked huge amounts of weed and on whom it had absolutely no observable effect. It certainly never lifted them out of the mundane or routine. Obviously I'm not party to their internal states but it did make me wonder why they bothered.
I'm interested to hear more about people's mushroom experiences. They're in season now are they not?
Oh indeed. folk for whom smoking weed is their entire life and personality become very dull
“I'd love to know where you evidence is that they all are violent with links to human and sex trafficking‘
I wonder how many people on here will agree with you that there are some warm and cuddly drug dealers?
Perhaps the ones that are appointed to sell to the better off classes are very polite - try not paying them for a deal or two and see how friendly they are then? Ask for a few weeks free supply and enjoy the vice like grip they get on your life and the life of family and friends.
Don't really know what the ins and outs of physical addiction Vs psychological dependence are but it seems to become a really insidious combination of 'this is who I am' leading to an acceptance of non achievement then smoke more to numb the frustration of not being who you might want to be.
I have some extremely smart and talented friends who basically completely gave up on trying to do anything with their life in favour of this 'lifestyle' choice.
I've lost touch with some very good friends to 1. protect myself and 2. because eventually you have very little in common.
Oh indeed. folk for whom smoking weed is their entire life and personality become very dull
I can’t imagine that people who smoke large amounts of weed generally get much done.
…. apart from regular walks to the 24 hour garage for Monster Munch, Kit Kats and more Rizla
This is an excellent podcast. Acid Dream: The Great LSD Plot.
Ask for a few weeks free supply and enjoy the vice like grip they get on your life and the life of family and friends.
Errmmm - you really do not understand how any of this works do you?
What I am trying to show is that this sort of ethical issue does not just involve the illegal drugs trade
That is some world championship whataboutery right there. I'm sensing some guilty thoughts there tj, is there something you want to tell the group?
Are you buying those kilo trays of sweet sweet Peruvian blueberries from Tesco and making muffins or just mainlining the lot?
the whole organised crime aspect is an interesting one, and tbh, not one that i have readily connected the dots with mentally before this thread
I guess because I'm not really in the scene now, that all the latest information about it all really associates, it will now
but playing devils advocate...
Do we think that it's the same for all illegal drugs? i mean i can see poor farmers being exploited and worse for weed and coke, and can see the large cartels that sit in the chain being a big part of the problem. But what about the chemists knocking up MDMA and the latest synthetic drugs in labs? sure there will be a distribution network on top.. i guess i see that as a western thing, making stuff in holland etc...But in reality there could be labs anywhere, probably China etc... Basically, what I am wondering if all of these networks would have similar practices...
I guess when you are dealing with big money / long prison sentences, you are more likely to be doing "worse" things than making and distributing drugs, Breaking Bad I'm looking at you...
Tj, this is how it works round us, are Scottish drug dealers fluffy and warm. As for saying that I don’t know how it works, perhaps you can enlighten the class?
I'm ambivalent or even broadly positive about drug use in the abstract, and did plenty of it myself in the '00s. But I think to draw a moral equivalence between the drug trade and fast fashion is a huge huge stretch.
Drug gangs commit 1891 femicides in one year in Mexico
nine women and three men tortured and murdered by drug gang
24 people murdered in attack on drug rehab centre
two women raped and murdered, livestreamed on tiktok - this one was just this week
Everyone will surely agree that we could keep going with this list until it went off the bottom of the screen, across the table, onto the floor and out the door.
Fast fashion is pretty ****ing grim but it's nowhere near this horrendous, and this is where pretty much all coke comes from.
Like alanl, I like to imagine that easily synthesised chemicals coming from Holland have a far less gruesome provenance - I used to know a few people who bought pills by the thousand and they were all mild mannered speccy types - but really, the people they were buying from were likely to be far less pleasant.
Tj, this is how it works round us, are Scottish drug dealers fluffy and warm. As for saying that I don’t know how it works, perhaps you can enlighten the class?
there is little more I can say. Yes there is horrendous violent crime involved in SOME drug networks - those are the ones that come most often to light. There is a vest interest in political circles in creating this image that all drug networks are the same. This is all a part of the refer madness propaganda that has been running for years. The other reason you do not hear about the professional non violent types is they do not get busted and do not make the news.
Cops do not go after the ones not causing a social problem A few years ago and for many years one big centre of drug use and distribution was a pub across the road from a police station. Of course the cops knew what was going on but it was also peaceful and contained so it was left alone
Different drugs have different networks
I have never done illegal drugs but my daughters ex partner was a coke fiend. I saw texts from his dealer threatening to come and burn down our family home if he didn't sort out some payments. I have also experience of acquaintances being threatened with all sorts of nastiness when the cashflow wasn't as it should be. Sorry but if you think that the illegal drug trade is built on anything other than violence, intimidation, and exploitation then you are either naive or deluded.
The above case with the centre across the road from the cop shop was MDMA btw
TBH the entire land ownership system is akin to a massive criminal organisation. Just that the bastards who perpetrate it also happen to write the laws and made it legal. Barley, grapes and sugar cane for your totally ethical beer, wine and rum are grown on vast estates that used to have people living on them. All of these headlines could have been written about the process of booting them all off then exploiting them for profit.
The cocaine trade and the ill effects of its prohibition have ruined some countries / areas for sure. No question about that.
A long time ago I would get grass from someone who grew their own and a little bit extra that they supplied to friends. There was no wider supply ring or chain of people involved. I think that way there's little harm if any. Any harm that did come to me was probably from the tobacco that I mixed it with. On the other hand another friend of mine became addicted to heroin and died from an overdose of prescription drugs that he stole when he could'nt get any heroin. Watching him go from fit as a butcher's dog Royal Marine to a shuffling skeleton was painful. Overall I think legalisation is the best route to go down but it is becoming more difficult with the almost constant creation of new drugs,synthetic opioids etc. I mostly enjoyed those times but knowing what I know now I am glad I stopped
Sorry but if you think that the illegal drug trade is built on anything other than violence, intimidation, and exploitation then you are either naive or deluded.
I think it depends...I'm sure there are plenty of guys growing and supplying small amounts of weed that are not linked to criminal gangs.
But coke..completely different story. My dealer was so atypical of the type you'd think was driving round selling coke it was funny. Very intelligent guy, from a good family etc. His entire clientele was middle class folks
But where was he getting all the product from? In Edinburgh, where tj is from, if you tried to get in on the cocaine selling racket independently of a couple of key individuals, you'd need some serious muscle behind you and not be remotely wary of the threat of extreme violence.
So yeah..most class A drugs are undoubtedly linked to dangerous criminal gangs in the background
Anyone seen any of the Hamiltons Pharmacopeia series
https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/show/hamiltons-pharmacopeia
lots of them on youtube
I was really into E / MDMA for a few years in my late teens / early 00s. Used to do it once a month for for probably around 5 years. Always in the context of going to clubs and raves with mates. I did a bit of DJing and it was all part and parcel of the scene.
I got into clubbing again in my early 30s and had a fantastic three years living in Leeds with a great group of mates, all around the same age. Used to put on our own parties and actually got to DJ in a couple of big clubs. Met my wife during this that time.
Now 42 with responsibilities, married with kids etc. Decks and vinyl sold long ago. The most I can manage nowadays is a couple of Belgian or German ales in a quiet hipster pub. 🤣 I still absolutely adore the music though. Best time of my life. My only regret is that I didn't party harder.
I think this is similar to me. My party life/youth is over and I'm pretty sad about it. Everyone has young kids and everyone at clubs etc looks like they're still at school. I was a little high when I met the OH. Never told her.
Had some fantastic experiences, chats etc. MDMA could solve all wars but would probably destroy it on the come down while physically wrecking us (streets).
I can be fairly reserved but a small amount could open me up to talking to people properly. It kind of lifts a filter. So it is a less worried version of me rather than someone else.
I was just fortunate that bikes were my priority so I wasn't too exposed (I think that's key -moderation).
Very aware of the drug trade and it needs sorting. Legalising and education would be a start.
Some strange attitudes in this thread about never doing anything, stereotypical views on people being arseholes, why even comment other than to show your own ignorance? Take some MDMA and cheer up!
Sorry but if you think that the illegal drug trade is built on anything other than violence, intimidation, and exploitation then you are either naive or deluded.
The Acid Dream podcast I linked to above deals with this in a very interesting way.
It starts out all 'peace, free love, we're changing the world and sticking it to the man' then part way through it changes tone dramatically to reveal the wider criminal links and impacts the acid makers hadn't even considered. It's powerful stuff.
AS above....
for those with no experience....
being up on MDMA, Acid, 2CB etc with some of your closest people can be some of the best moments in life, no exaggeration... the conversations, the laughs...Being with mates is one experience, being one on one with your other half another experience.. deep and meaningful conversations.. In fact, a lot of the MDMA experience is the conversations, they can be totally rational conversations, not really like beered up drunk convos, occasionally they take a turn were you find enlightenment and realisation... Some of the conversations i have had i could never have had in any other way, they conversations can be challenging, but when they come out it's nothing but honesty and understanding..
Ive been sat in a circle of 4 on a holiday with like 20 of us in a big house, we were the only ones on acid.. for half an hour easily we were trading spoonful's of jelly as we had the perception that the other's were wobbling better than our own.....
Likewise, MDMA while out partying and the music rushes over and through you, can turn audio into visual...totally enhances an amazing experience.. however.. it is easy to get too mashed and end up a stumbling gurning fool for a while...
Weed on the other hand.. giggles and laughs when it's good, i would say more like the drunken experience when with friends..but to me it turned to isolation and paranoia, and wouldn't want to be near anyone...
I'm interested to hear more about people's mushroom experiences. They're in season now are they not?
Yes mushroom season is now in full swing. Experiences vary wildly depending on how many mushrooms you take, how strong they are and what the setting is. Round here in west yorkshire the mushrooms seem to be very strong and I go by the following rule of thumb:
2-3 mushroosms: Microdose, can be taken alternate days over a period of time to alleviate mental health issues. Effectiveness is still the subject of wild debate but I tried it and it seemed to help a lot. Took them for a month and all my work stresses and other worries/anxieties just seemed to disappear.
5-10: Provides a nice euphoric buzz not dissimilar to the inital rush you get with MDMA. Only lasts around an hour and you feel fine afterwards with no come down. (this is my favourite amount to take)
10-20: As above but you'll start to get mild visuals (everything suddenly looks very sparkly!) and your perception of things around you will change, like you're hyperaware. You'll also probably feel quite giddy/giggly. Conversely everything could also feel a bit weird and some anxiety/paranoia might creep in if not in the right environment. (Avoid busy and noisy pubs!)
20-50: Now you're tripping. Geometric visuals, everything will appear very different and it'll be very euphoric. Also lots of potential for a bad trip if things go wrong. Best done outdoors on a nice day (trees/forests are amazing!)
50-100: As above just a lot more intense. Make sure you're in a safe space!
>100: 'hero dose' territory. Never been brave enough to go this high but I'm told it's a full-on 'seeing into your soul' mystical experience. Either that or a crazy 'I think I'm going mad' bad trip. I got close to this once and it went very bad, got very lost in a very dodgy bit of Manchester, blacked out and woke up with my face in a puddle. Never again!
Cheers Daz.
Never been brave enough to go this high but I'm told it's a full-on 'seeing into your soul' mystical experience. Either that or a crazy 'I think I'm going mad' bad trip.
I could only describe this as you 'forget' you have a body and you reside completely in your own mind.
My big trip involved space travel(obviously not 😆 ) but its that kind of out of body experience that the big doses give you. I suppose this is what they call it a trip, because you basically do just that.
I dont want to say why i found it scary, as ive been told not to tell people who might be tripping at some point and start them on a similar train of thought.
2 points
1. You will never look at the world the same again and 2. You understand the importance of the natural world and the environment.
I’ve never needed to go on a “trip” to understand the importance of the natural world and the environment!!
I could only describe this as you 'forget' you have a body and you reside completely in your own mind.
I read some accounts talking about 'ego death' on big trips. I found it hard to work out if they felt it was a good thing or a bad thing!
^ That’s something the big hitters on here could do with 😈
Very good!
.I'm sure there are plenty of guys growing and supplying small amounts of weed that are not linked to criminal gangs.
Apart from being, y'know, an actual criminal gang themselves.
We had a growing house in our street, cops busted it a few months ago. We, like all the rest of the neighbours knew nowt, it was quiet. But here's the thing; the late night effing and jeffing, fisticuffs and shouting and general titting about - that we all thought was spill over from the pub at the top of the road has stopped. The near constant stream of badly parked or cars blocking the road - that we all thought was rat-run from a near-by junction redesign last year, has stopped. The street was just suddenly back to being a regular boring residential street in South Manchester. It was all low level stuff fo'shure, its not like it was downtown LA, but now they aren't there any more, it's weird to realise just how much impact they had.
As above I was a serial 90's raver, loved it, it was our Woodstock IMO.. Tried everything apart from heroin. Acid and mushrooms were particular favourites, my only regret is coke, horrible stuff, turns you into a dick. 61 now and I don't even drink.
.I'm sure there are plenty of guys growing and supplying small amounts of weed that are not linked to criminal gangs.
Apart from being, y'know, an actual criminal gang themselves.
I pretty sure they meant one person with a couple of plants producing enough for themselves and maybe a mate or two. That is a world apart from somebody setting up a miniature factory in a residential building and supplying a network of dealers.
Apart from being, y'know, an actual criminal gang themselves.
Sorry to hear it was an issue for yourself with antisocial behaviour nick but not all small grows can be described as such, some of us used to get on extremely well with our neighbours, albeit the nearest is 100ft away......one of the benefits of living very rural I guess
I've never been described as an actual criminal gang before......might get that as a t-shirt print.....
I'm sure there are plenty of guys growing and supplying small amounts of weed that are not linked to criminal gangs.
It's a lot more commonplace than people think. Here in West Yorkshire I have it on good authority that many farmers round here have grows going on. It's a lucrative use of empty outbuildings and barns apparently.
When I lived in converted barn in West Yorkshire with a public track accross the back of it we were shopped by a member of the public for growing weed (we weren't).
Plod were totally clueless as you would expect and the mere fact we invited them in without hesitation made them stop their search.
Always liked this poem by Edinburgh poet Paul Reekie
WHEN CEASAR’S MUSHROOM IS IN SEASON
When Caesar’s mushroom is in season
It is the reversal of the mushroom season
As Caesar’s mushroom comes in march
The mushroom season is in September
Six months earlier
One half year
Equinoctal
Autumnal to vernal
Do you hope for more
Than a better balance
Between fear and desire
It’ll only be the straying
That finds the path direct
Neither in the woods nor in the field
No robes, like Caesar’s, trimmed with purple
Rather an entire street trimmed with purple
And every door in it
Wrapped in a different sort of Christmas paper
The September mushrooms of midnight
Show the rhythms of vision
Can’t move for tripping over them
Wipe your tapes
Wipe your tapes with lightning
did the whole 90s thing but was a bit of a late starter, late 90s early 2000s - was glad when it all stopped tbh, wasn't really my scene just got swept along in it. I always preferred a bit of smoke, mushrooms and LSD.
Spent months in the Peruvian Amazon rainforest drinking ayahuasca if that counts? Sat through 40+ ceremonies guided by different shamans and had some pretty (third) eye opening experiences. Telepathic communication with visions/spirits, communion with the divine, saw my own soul, traversing through wormholes to other worlds, talking snakes, lots of snakes, snakes going into my body. Outer body experiences, soaring like an eagle over ancient meso American cities, visions of pyramids and ancient gods, meso American, Egyptian, Hindu, and temples in jungles. Time not existing, feeling like all there ever has been is this ceremony that I'm in - existence having no beginning and no end. Drowning in vision sometimes, trying to open my eyes to make it stop but it doesn't!! Had the ego death once too, that was scary until I was suddenly back in my body.
Did a few peyote ceremonies with Mexican shaman too. They were good, much more gentle than ayahuasca but at 12hrs a stretch it's no easy ride.
That sort of experience has a bit of a pull for me, but I fear I wouldn't come out the other side of it, plus the whole culture barrier, I've very little experience in foreign lands, plus mortgage, and family responsibilities! I recently watched a documentary about an American on the verge of suicide who went out to find an authentic shaman, but found charlatans. Eventually finds a genuine shaman who put him in isolation where he spent his time on DMT for 100 days straight.