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Was thinking about footage for MTB stuff and whether a Drone would be a good idea.
I have no idea where you can or cannot use one for example. Could you use it at places like Forest of Dean ? BikeParkWales ? What about local woods ?
Obviously having never done this i'm aware there's a skills thing needed... but i assume it's a bit like playing a video game and something you kinda just get used to with practice etc.
Recommendations on kit ?
https://store.dji.com/uk/product/dji-mini-3-combo-rc?set_region=GB&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3vO3BhCqARIsAEWblcCYzvMokFfXlhp18J_jNaRoHPY31TqVMc-0sx9kXiqylr3u8sFFT-QaArhYEALw_wcB&vid=128091
This DJI above seems to tick many of the boxes for a starter package i think?
If you stay sub-250g then the rules on where and how you can use it are very broad. Other than that, you still have to register with the Civil Aviation Authority.
My main advice would be to watch lots of YouTube reviews to see just how capable they are in the real world and just how much of that capability is relevant to your own use.
For instance, I bought an Autel Nano+ in account of its outstanding image quality, but its "follow me" mode is poor. As the latter doesn't really interest me, that wasn't much.of a loss.
I know nothing of the legalities but I do know a professional drone pilot who sometimes uses his for 'action' sports and its waaaay harder than you'd think to get useable footage, even for a pro. The thought that you can rock up to a trail centre as a newbie and get anything like the shots you see in professional you tube vids is excuse my pun pie in the sky without a huge investment in time spent practising. Also in order to take footage of us wingfoiling at the local reservoir he needed to have his various certificates logged with the owners of the leisure rights to the venue and it took around 6 months before he was allowed to take off.
From the regulators.
The rules around drone use are not straight forward.
Nobody actually owns the air space above their property so in theory they can't enforce a no fly zone.
There are rules around the proximity to buildings etc. It's generally 150m. However, the CAA state that 150m rule applies to "villages", when I asked what defined a "village" they didn't give a clear answer.
Have a look at the drone code. https://www.caa.co.uk/drones/drone-code/drone-code-overview/
The thought that you can rock up to a trail centre as a newbie and get anything like the shots you see in professional you tube vids is excuse my pun pie in the sky without a huge investment in time spent practising.
LOL nowhere did i even remotely say that.
I've been looking at the rules, the DJI is <249gr, i assume deliberately to keep it within the lower specs of the rules and laws etc.
I generally find if I'm visiting a place and think "It'd be nice to get some drone shots here" there's a "No Drones allowed" sign somewhere nearby.
A quick Google suggests the Forest of Dean doesn't allow drones.
Mavic Mini will need a CAA license (a simple online test and a £10 fee).
I know nothing of the legalities but I do know a professional drone pilot who sometimes uses his for ‘action’ sports and its waaaay harder than you’d think to get useable footage, even for a pro. The thought that you can rock up to a trail centre as a newbie and get anything like the shots you see in professional you tube vids is excuse my pun pie in the sky without a huge investment in time spent practising.
Very much this. As an amateur with 10 years of building and flying FPV and DJI drones, it is pretty hard following people!
The other thing to note is YouTube drone footage often looks great cause it’s filmed in the best possible light. Unless you ride at sunset/sunrise your footage is mostly going to look boring. I take my Mini 3 Pro on probably less than 5% of the rides I do cause honestly the amount of faff involved mostly just isn’t worth it.
You will almost certainly be ask to leave if you try filming at BPW without permission.
If you go for a DJI drone, get the 3rd party software https://flylitchi.com/
It allows you to program waypoints along a set route of whatever you are interested in. Gives you a very smooth flight.
Took this a couple of weeks after getting my drone, it's not the most exciting but it's a special place to me so I was quite pleased with it.
Could never of done it flying manually.
Technically, it was a prohibited area, it's a SSSI and National Trust land and drones are prohibited from both. As it was winter and there was no one else about I couldn't see the harm.
Above and beyond CAA rules which are pretty clean for sub 250g drones - parks, FE land etc, probably won't let you launch from their land.
Some of the places in Scotland managed by the Forestry are much easier to fly in. England less so.
Remember the CAA control the airways but launching from land must be cleared by the manger/land owner.
As above Neo is a good shout for a messing about drone but don't expect it to keep up with you through the forest particularly well.
Most of these land owners though can't stop you flying over their land unless it's restricted by law
Just be professional about flying a drone rather than a menace and you will be good.
it’s a SSSI and National Trust land and drones are prohibited from both.
Shirely the wording is you cannot fly a drone from these places, but there nothing to stop you from flying it outside there land & within the 500m of you?
If you follow the rules to the letter it’s quite restrictive.
and drones seem to attract two diametrically opposed camps of ‘**** the rules’ and ‘obsessive rules nerds’.
You can do the flyer ID test free and the prep materials cover all the rules. Sub-250g is quite permissive these days, main thing is to keep away from crowds and the restricted zones, airports/airfields and the like.
A wide, sweeping shot from up high for setting a scene is quite easy with the DJI drones. Putting a camera somewhere tricky for a fairly static shot is also pretty easy. Following action, quick pans, etc are hard. The dreamy low, fast, swinging around footage you see is done with FPV drones, super fast and powerful that are sending a realtime view back to goggles. They take quite a bit of practice to even fly competently, the people doing it commercially are at the top of their game.
Forestry England (so FoD and the like) want you to apply for a permit to film. I think BPW do too.
Have a look at this to give you some idea it was a full day filming including loads of drone stuff to get it down to under 2 mins.
Abigale commented after that it was like riding with a wasp at the side of you at times.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/sixth-element-carbon-wheels-abigale-lawton-video-2017.html
Shirely the wording is you cannot fly a drone from these places, but there nothing to stop you from flying it outside there land & within the 500m of you?
That's correct, as long as you are 150m from a building then they can't stop you.
It's where you launch and land that is the key factor. However, certain landowners try to claim you can't.
If you follow the rules to the letter it’s quite restrictive.
yeah. A mate recently bought one but sent it back after finding this out, as the area he'd want to film in is all SSSI and he'd spoken to the ranger who said he wouldn't be happy about it being used there. So I suppose it depends whether you're prepared to upset people/have arguments etc.
I bought the the original Mavic Mini, as said above it's extremely hard to get decent looking, interesting shots, and then time consuming to edit it all together into something good that isn't incredibly boring! You also need to be actually doing something cool or exciting or have really dramatic scenery otherwise even the most pro looking video is still basically a bit crap. I've given up using mine for videos and just use it now for practical things like checking the roof etc!
I did get a while back though a Hover Air X1 which is a selfie drone. It's awesome & I take it with me on pretty much all rides as it's tiny (half the weight of the Mavic) and folds up so fits in a jersey rear pocket or in my top tube bag on the gravel bike. I'd definitely recommend looking into it as it's really easy to use and more importantly can be operated solo i.e. you don't have to have a dedicated "cameraman".
They've just launched two more sophisticated versions with much better cameras/sensors (and fast enough to follow an MTBer which my one isn't really unless you're going quite slow) although they are a lot more expensive. The early bird discounts on IndieGoGo finished just yesterday unfortunately I think!
There's also the recently released DJI Neo which is a hybrid selfie/conventional drone - it's very cheap but less capable than both the X1 and the DJI Mini although could be a good gateway drone!
For the likes of SSSIs I'll approach them on a case-by-case basis. If it's because of a rare bird etc I'll try to avoid, or find out if there's a season that the bird wouldn't be around. If it exists because it's a rare fossil bed, then I'll just crack on.
Historic Scotland have a no-fly policy but that's because many of its properties are also tourist attractions. Again, flying when nobody is around is ok in my book.
Indeed the 'around other people' is a growing issue.
I work opposite the Wallace Monument and it's weekly there's someone flying a drone around the crowds, over buildings etc.
The last 5 hill days I've had - 3 of them there was some plum buzzing the summit shot while we wanted to sit in peace.. The last hill saw about 6 strangers turn somewhat on a drone operator and tell them to stop disturbing us....
@scotroutes _ I totally agree. In the above video I would never fly during the spring or summer, it's the site of a very important Little Tern colony.
In fact, if anybody did fly there in the summer I wouldn't be surprised if the RSPB/NT/Natural England would try and prosecute.
Personally I would be pretty mythed if I am out on the bike in the countryside and all I can hear is a bloody drone. 🙂
*miffed*
See also: e-bikes
Legally, as long as you are following the drone code and avoiding any air space restrictions (which you can see on apps like Drone Assist), drones 249g and under can fly over National Trust, English Heritage land etc. and are not bound by distance from buildings.
The organisations have their policy whereby they don't allow drones (to take off and land from/on their land), but they cannot insist you don't fly over (given that rules for drones 249g and under are relaxed and assuming you are following the drone code - you are legally allowed to).
Someone said they were reporting my shit drone video years ago of an unauthorized video of Swinley as he was a pro and I wasn't 🙂
I had a flyaway and RTH failure moment on the beach in Scotland, and sold it after realizing how easily a major injury could happen. This was with a DJI Phantom so way over the 249g thing and I had a range extender on the controller that made it obvious I was looking for a drone. About to give up as I had no clue where it could have landed. Somebody asked if I looking for a drone as one had just completed a perfect land next to the path in the grass before the sand.
We had the small DJI a year or so ago, my son had a low-speed crash into a bench. Put the battery back in & tried to launch it and it flew off at full speed, the motor cut out at about 50m and crashed to the ground. That would still have damaged somebody if it had landed on them.
My bad luck 🙂
I recently bought a dji neo fly more kit. I'm getting better at flying it around. Controller is good. Not yet used it with the bike or out walking. I like the go straight up, rotate 360°, come back down videos. They give a different perspective on an area and if anything goes wrong it'll just land on me rather than far away.
I doubt I'll buy anything bigger or a drone with greater capabilities as it isn't something I'll use regularly.
If it is too windy to fly the neo I'll get my kite out!
Had a Mavic Mini for a few years now. The trickiest part for me is editing. Trying to squeeze about 40 mins of 'samey' footage into an interesting 2 minute clip using clunky software literally takes hours and renders the whole process barely worthwhile.
There's also the faff of safely carrying a drone while riding off road, digging it out your pack, setting up the controller and powering the drone up / down for each clip. It's all hugely time consuming and I only carry the kit if the weather and scenery warrant it. That said, if you do get a settled day in a scenic area, drone footage adds a dimension far beyond yet more shaky handlebar mounted footage of the mud spattered arse of the person riding in front of you.
There’s also the faff of safely carrying a drone while riding off road, digging it out your pack, setting up the controller and powering the drone up / down for each clip. It’s all hugely time consuming and I only carry the kit if the weather and scenery warrant it.
this is what is so awesome about the Hover X1. Literally fits in my back pocket, I can unfold it and it'll be in the air in 30s. Doesn't need a controller so no faff. I can get the shot, have it back in my pocket and be riding off again whilst the Mavic Mini would still be looking for a GPS lock!!
Assuming the Hover air X1 is what I'm reading correctly, 15mph isn't anywhere near quick enough for some things I was thinking of. Sure, a lot of stuff would be ok, but a chunk of it wouldn't
Current Hover X1 doesn't have obstacle avoidance, neither does the new DJI Neo.
Assuming the Hover air X1 is what I’m reading correctly, 15mph isn’t anywhere near quick enough for some things I was thinking of. Sure, a lot of stuff would be ok, but a chunk of it wouldn’t
yeah, as I said though, they're literally just now releasing 2x new versions (X1 Pro & X1 Pro Max) which are a lot faster. They're even selling a specific "bike package" for though which includes a beacon you can mount on your stem for improved tracking. Pricier though.
Hover X1 doesn’t have obstacle avoidance
No, it's intended to be used in a totally different way to something like a Mavic Mini. It would be nice if it did have obstacle avoidance, but that would make it a lot costlier/bigger/heavier. TBH though, it is very robust & bounces! I've crashed it into trees etc dozens of times at full chat & it's fine. You certainly couldn't do the same thing with a Mini!!
The new jetskis. 😉
I imagine some people even film their jetskis with them.
The only things I know about these drones are they are cool as **** and have to very steep learning curves.1. ability to fly the damn thing and 2. price.
I thought Emtbs were expensive. This is a whole 'nother level.
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Question to posters - Do you gain any experience from flying the tiny 'in the living room' toy types of drone, that would be useful in preparation to flying more complex drones ?
The more complex drones are very easy to fly.
They are completely stabilised. If you take off and then took your hands off the controller, the drone would simply hover in the place.
You can simply press a button and the drone will return to it's starting point and land itself.
It takes a bit of getting used to flying a few hundred pounds of stuff around the sky.
The living room toy types actually take some skill to fly.
If you follow the rules to the letter it’s quite restrictive.
Not really - there are always ways to do things just by looking at the risks and figuring out a plan of attack.
Like everything you gain experience and figure out how to problem solve your way around things and mitigate issues.
I've just done a power station shoot which at first glance looked tricky but we figured out a solution. Most of the time you're not shooting randomly and need specific material.
Practice, practice and more practice, and a bit of planning.
I've recently got a DJI mini Pro 4.
It is a steep learning curve but once you've got over the fear - when it goes out of sight, it's nerve wracking - it's relatively easy to get the hang of. Loads of tutorial videos out there.
I'm a long way from getting decent footage though. I mean it's ok, but not anything anyone would want to watch.
I'll post a bit more about my few goes with it when I have more time
Question to posters – Do you gain any experience from flying the tiny ‘in the living room’ toy types of drone, that would be useful in preparation to flying more complex drones ?
Probably, possibly, sort of.
You'll certainly get experience of switching it on, making it go up a bit, bumping into a sofa/light fitting/child, switching it off, then replacing the props you just broke on your furniture/house/family.
In all seriousness, I'm not sure the complex ones are steered around in quite the same way.
I thought Emtbs were expensive. This is a whole ‘nother level.
I dunno, Neo at £150 seems pretty good for an airbourne selfie stick that follows you around.
For sure, the most expensive DJI has two more zeroes in the price tag, but that's a waterproof pro camera for film making by pros.
Options exist in the middle.
I’ve just got a neo, unfortunately they are using the local area for Top Gun stuff so there are no-fly restrictions in place so it hasn’t really came out the box yet.
I went for the minimum drone only package as I don’t want to actually fly, I want to just use it for the quick circle around launch from the hand type of film and back in the bumbag and on charge type of thing and a little bit of follow me.
I think the neo at its price is going to be hard to beat for this type of thing.
I imagine some people even film their jetskis with them.
I plan to use mine for off-road quad riding 🙂
As mentioned don’t underestimate the No farf features of the x1 (and the new pricey ones)and neo, the ability to get some quick footage and back away with no farth allows you to shoot and go and actually enjoy your ride.
Getting good footage is hard work but these quick modes are a good way to get something that gives a good view of where you are and also use less battery than a newbie would.
I saw some good footage of a motorcyclist using a neo to get good entering and leaving footage from places, he had other more pro drones for other tasks but said a neo was just so handy.
Had a DJI spark early on and go through phases of wanting a DJI mini 4 pro. I live somewhere where I could use it but........videography can properly ruin a day out unless your idea of a good day out is being a videographer rather than filming what you are doing......or your standards are dog rough. The hours needed to film a enough from from enough interesting angles at enough locations to be able to edit together something worth watching is pretty substantial. If you are trying to make a film of you biking or kayaking you are basically just taking it as a prop.
Using a drone as a camera for stills from angles you could not otherwise not access is imo more achievable as a thing do whilst you are doing a thing is more realistic imo.
Using a drone as a camera for stills from angles you could not otherwise not access is imo more achievable as a thing do whilst you are doing a thing is more realistic imo.
This is one of my primary uses - think of it as a tripod with very, very long legs.
This is one of my primary uses – think of it as a tripod with very, very long legs.
Buggers to control though, I lost this one in a bit of water, could I find it? Nah.
Using a drone as a camera for stills from angles you could not otherwise not access is imo more achievable as a thing do whilst you are doing a thing is more realistic imo.
yeah I figured this out very early on lol!
TBH I cannot stand the bloody things. They are SO intrusive. I consider any users who are flying them anywhere in such a way that they impinge on the general public to be incredibly selfish and entitled, whatever the Law says.
I'd suggest that for many people a drone is a bit of a fad, much like action cams. People buy them thinking that they're going to get some great footage but it seldom comes to fruition. At least GoPros etc are nice and quiet.
If I was a Freeman of the Land would I be entitled to shoot down a drone? AFAF, obvs.