You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Purely hypothetical for now, but I potentially may drive to portes du soleil area next year to meet a friend for a few days riding. This would have to be done within a shortish time frame due mainly to lack of annual leave from work!
So, in order to maximise time there, how would you get from NW England down to the Alps in the shortest time (yes fly, I get it, but we're talking driving!)
We did the hull/Rotterdam ferry this year, but is the drive from Rotterdam down really feasible in one go?
Drive down the UK, stop in France on way? One stop/two stops? I'd be driving by myself.
And anyone got recommendations for campervan sites there that are within riding distance of the lift network!? And pre-bookable!
All hypothetical for now, but I like thinking about the opportunities!
To get there in the shortest time possible just drive via the channel tunnel and don’t stop very often.
I have driven Aberdeen to Morzine many times. I usually aim to leave at a time so I hit the channel tunnel late at night (11ish) and then stop overnight in Arras for a kip in cheap hotel. Leave early the next morning and you hit Morzine by late afternoon.
It can be done quicker with naps in the car but I honestly wouldn't recommend it.
The English channel to Morzine in a one is very easily doable.
To get there in the shortest time possible just drive via the channel tunnel and don’t stop very often.
I have driven Aberdeen to Morzine many times. I usually aim to leave at a time so I hit the channel tunnel late at night (11ish) and then stop overnight in Arras for a kip in cheap hotel. Leave early the next morning and you hit Morzine by late afternoon.
It can be done quicker with naps in the car but I honestly wouldn't recommend it.
The English channel to Morzine in one day is very easily doable.
Whenever I’ve driven it’s been for a 2 week break minimum though. I wouldn’t want to do a round trip in the car for a short break.
We generally do as Robz. Leave after work, get to the tunnel then into France. Drive a couple of hours the other side depending on timing and tiredness. Overnight somewhere, it's easy to find something. Get up, get to Morzine. The french bit is easy driving
Hull -Rotterdam will cost you time. Nice route, but the schlep through Belgium is a pain. 10hrs from europort down to PdS and you only get out of the dock at 9am. It’s great if you’re heading more to the east. Fastest route will be via the tunnel.
I did Bourg st Maurice to home (≈Newcastle) in one hit this summer. 18hrs door to door with generous stops somewhere in France for lunch and a cool noodle place just off the m25 at Brentwood. Would advise against that sort of punishment, but a one overnight stop strategy about an hour from the tunnel on the French side will make for a good schedule, getting you into the PdS area about 8-9hrs later.
We did the hull Rotterdam from West Yorkshire, so a lot less UK road driving. Got off at 9am and set off. Snarled up in Belgium, not helped by an overturned lorry spilling sprouts over the carriageway (yes, really). Once in France, it was a very steady drive, we had the T tag thing so straight through tolls. Probably stopped three times for toilets and coffees. Got to the accommodation in Morzine at around 9:45pm.
Would I do it again, not sure. One hit saved a day of travel and gained one more day in accommodation, but it was quite a long day.
Driving that distance for a few days riding? Your keen 😂
I am, yes! 🤣
Thinking about the passport du soleil weekend which obviously adds the complication of finding accommodation etc. Never done that and it looks like a good event/atmosphere. But it doesn't necessarily have to be for that, we could go any time that fits really. I'd be meeting a mate over there for 5 days or so. Yes we could do something in this country a lot more easily, but life's short and all that. But annual leave from work becomes an issue as there's other commitments for that.
I've done this 30 times, at least (on my own, with friends, before kids, with kids, with teenagers, with and without bikes etc).
We have experimented a little (and for a while we had the advantage of starting further South, which changes things). But from NW England, we now always do a one stop strategy, with an overnight stop 2-3 hours into France. Around Reims-Chalons is perfect. Stop any sooner, day 2 gets long, any later and day 1 will drag (especially if the journey goes badly). We use airbnb's near motorway junctions nowadays.
That ferry is good (we've used it for other trips) but for this it doesn't really gain you any time and puts too much driving into day 2.
We do similar. Skiing in winter, biking in summer in the Alps from Scotland, We can do it in 2 long days. Sometimes we have to. More often we head to my folks place in South Yorkshire the night before, then Ferry/Tunnel, then head to Troyes or so. Then on destination the next day. It is easier if you don't have to put up a tent at the end and you aren't towing a trailer...
The pleasantest way is to take an overnight break in France somewhere. Reims usually works quite well.
If you're planning to do the journey in one go then it's very doable with 2 drivers - just change driver every 2-4 hours and you can keep moving more or less constantly.
I've only driven to the Alps solo once and would definitely take a proper break overnight next time. The psycho masochistic journey is to move house in the morning, leave Edinburgh approx 1400 and arrive in Dover 8 hours later, catch the 2300 or 0000 ferry, doze on the ferry then drive to the first open aire you find. Sleep in the car until 0600-0700 before eating breakfast and driving south. I was so sleep deprived I could only drive for 2-3 hours before taking quite a long break for food / leg stretch / fresh air / nap. I think I got to Briancon area about 2100 and was absolutely bushed. Although I was able to do stuff on the first day of my holiday I didn't enjoy it much and really should have taken a rest day.
Newcastle to Amsterdam was good.
A lot of the travelling time is spent sleeping, so you can do more driving as soon as you get on the continent. Probably slower if you have two drivers, but starting fresh in Amsterdam early morning is good
Newcastle to Amsterdam was good.
Our new favourite (from Scotland) is Newcastle - Amsterdam on the way down and chunnel on the way back. The 5pm-ish ferry back is an awkward time, tunnel late in the evening with a stop in Kent or early in the morning and do the UK drive that day works better.
I've done the drive solo a couple of times in a oner from / back to Calais and it's a slog but doable.
There's a Travelodge and a Premier Inn in on the outskirts of Ashford for a £50 stopover but if you can get north of the Dartford tunnel before stopping it makes the drive home much more pleasant.
We drive to the alps a couple of times a year for skiing,as do our friends. We set off from Manchester area thursday afternoon / evening to get to a hotel in the Maidstone area, then get eurotunnel nice and early and get down to Dijon area on Friday. This get us into the alps mid afternoon on the saturday. Friends who live close to us do it in two days - 6am out of Manchester area to the eurotunnel then down to Reims / Troyes for a stop, then onwards and a late afternoon arrival the next day.
If UK roads were less busy, I'd be more inclined to skip the thursday night departure, but I am not sure I could face a drive down from Manchester to Kent starting in / travelling during rush hour, then have to get a train and travel on. Driving in France is a doddle compared to the uk
Travelling back is less of an issue as arrival at home is more relaxing anyway, We both aim to get to Arras on the first day's journey home, then hoe the second day. I did once have a late departure from the Alps and stopped at Troyes, completing the journey on the second day. I did that driving solo as Mrs NBT was injured: it was a long day, but I made it safely.
Last time we drove from Mcr to Dover, stopped in the Premier Inn there and got on the ferry early-ish and had a nice easy drive across France to the northern Alps - ready to ride the next day.
Sounds like you're driving solo? So I wouldn't try to squeeze the journey in quicker if I were you.
Honestly, I'd try to wangle a bit more AL and make a week of it.
I've been looking at this as we're on the verge of booking something in the Alps next summer as a family holiday. We're Yorkshire based so the Hull route is a VERY appealing prospect vs a 5+ hour drive to Folkstone.
Hull>Rotterdam: time wise, looks like the ferry stops in Rotterdam at 8am and its a ~10hr drive from there to Chamonix so there for tea time if you got a clear run. Bonus - its an hour drive from home to Hull and you wake up in Rotterdam refreshed with a days driving ahead. Do something similar on the way back.
Chunnel: 5+ hour drive from home to Folkstone but thats ok, smash that out after work on Friday night and kip in a Premier Inn (~£100). Wake up early, hop onto the train and you're leaving Calais 30 minutes later - realistically 8am like the ferry route. But... the drive is shorter - nearly 100 miles/90 minutes shorter and potentially (?) an easier drive straight down through France rather than negotiating Rotterdam, Antwerp, Brussels etc.
Oh and by my working out, even with the hotels on the way there/back, I think the chunnel is about 400 quid cheaper. I may look at options for staying over in France so get across the channel on Friday afternoon and get a couple of hours south... It'd mean taking a day off on the Friday but may make the whole thing a bit more chilled and give us the chance to see a few places on our drive through France...
@daveyboywonder I've done this and weighed up your exact thoughts a few times now - and I live pretty close to you.
Based on our experience, the Ferry. The short nip to Hull and then your 'holiday' starting right there and then is great, especially with family on board, and I cannot stress how nice it is to wake up, have a big brekafast, disembark and be straight onto European autoroutes, compared to dealing with the M1/M25/Dartford/Traffic/Operation Stack/General SE UK awfullness.
Assuming you work Mon-Friday hours, remember its very easy from where we are to get the Ferry on the Friday evening without needing to take the Friday as holiday too.
As for coming home - We've caught it on the Sunday night from Amsterdam and I've been off the ferry, home to LS25 and logged into teams by 9am, so thats another potential time/holiday allowance saving.
I think overall, when I've worked it out, it always end up being pretty close to cost neutral when you include mileage, tolls, fuel, hotels(or not), etc, but for us the long Ferry works well, its a giggle, and at the end of the day instead of being in a Premier Inn/Le Premier Inn somewhere, a portion of the travel time is spent in a big white hotel, beer in hand, but still doing a steady 18 knots in the right direction.
I’ve done Chamonix to Newcastle in a day getting the calais to dover ferry. Left Chamonix at 5am got in to Newcastle at 1am had two drivers not sure id recommend it but it saved money on hotels.
We've done this before Macc to Portsmouth Friday afternoon 11pm ferry to Caen which gets in about 7am then straight to Morzine.
Its expensive and a long drive we do it as we have 5 bikes on the back and treat the ferry as a floating hotel. Stopping in France would be a massive ballache.
There were loads of campervans parked in the lift stations at Neon and the Ardent, and in Carrfour car park in Morzine when we were there in August i think also in the lower car patk in Les Gets. There is a campsite by the Ibex in Montriod
compared to dealing with the M1/M25/Dartford/Traffic/Operation Stack/General SE UK awfulness.
I feel like this is a valid point worth considering, I'm too far south already for this to matter, but hitting the M20 after French autoroutes is always depressing.
Done Inverness to Chamonix in van loads of times. Almost exactly the same distance from Inverness to Dover as Calais to Cham but the French side takes about 4 hrs less!
I would leave on a Friday early afternoon, drive to near Dover arriving 12ish, kip in the van, early ferry, autoroute to Cham on Saturday arriving in early evening and be stood at first lift ready to ski on Sunday.
Without a van it's kip in the car or cheap hotel I suppose.
IMO it's worth it for 10 days skiing or biking, I definitely wouldn't do it for less than a week.
As others have said, anything other than a short ferry crossing (Dover Calais etc) or the tunnel will eat into your time too much for a short trip.
In reverse, I've managed to do pretty much a full day's activity then boosted up to near Calais for an early ferry.
Forgot to say, I've done Cham to Calais in just under 8 hrs but that was hoofing it with one brief stop because I spent too long chatting to a mate in a Chamonix cafe! Morzine is a bit shorter.
We do it all the time.
Left La plagne this year at 8.30am and we got home to north wales at 2.30am. Two drivers and taking tunnel back.
As everyone has said, worst bit of the journey is always UK.
We do it around 3 times a year. Devon - Folkestone premier inn on Friday after work. 6am eurotunnel, smash through France, easy.
Sleeping in UK side means no stress of missing anything from the inevitable UK traffic carnage.
French drive is easy in 1 full day.
On the way home the calais hotels are a bit rough....so we usually opt for a late crossing, stay in Folkestone.
@snotrag - got 2 mates, one near us and one in North Wales who both are also well experienced in the route and say the Hull crossing is the one to do so may well just go with the consensus and do that.
Need to work it out as "being on the verge" of booking something turned into "booked something" last night. Week in Chamonix seeing the sights with a day trip into Italy and to Geneva, hire bikes and take the kids for a day in Les Gets/Morzine and lots of walking/eating/drinking.
We live in w York's too and the hull ferry is appealing. Well, except it doesn't take you in the right direction! For going east, its great we've used it to go to Romania and Slovenia. But to go south, you have to drive 2 hrs east and inevitably get stuck in Leeds hull traffic. You've then got slow congested roads in the low countries ( most Dutch motorways have a 60 daytime speed limit) before your back level with Calais on you journey south. And that's before you take into account chugging across the north sea at 15mph.
@snotrag - got 2 mates, one near us and one in North Wales who both are also well experienced in the route and say the Hull crossing is the one to do so may well just go with the consensus and do that.
Need to work it out as "being on the verge" of booking something turned into "booked something" last night. Week in Chamonix seeing the sights with a day trip into Italy and to Geneva, hire bikes and take the kids for a day in Les Gets/Morzine and lots of walking/eating/drinking.
Sounds like it'll be a great trip! Does a day trip into Italy involve the mont blanc tunnel? We did that this year, travelling from Como to Les gets. It was an experience and a scenic drive and all that... But we had a bit of a queue on the way into the tunnel due to an incident, but this had turned into a 3hr tail when we came out the other side which looked horrendous!
We did hull_rotterdam on the way out for our trip, I can't fault it really, it's a chilled it way to start the trip for sure, and the 2hr drive over to hull on the way out was much more pleasant than the 7hr (it was bad) slog back up from Folkestone on the way home.
For a relaxed family trip I'd definitely recommend it. From the bulk of the posts so far though, for me wanting to get there in the shortest possible time, sounds like I've got to suck it up and blast the tunnel!
Maybe I'd take half a day's leave, set off in the pm, get an evening train then stop at an aire a couple of hours into France 🤔
Yep, day trip into Italy would be via the tunnel. Done it the last 2 years on biking trips - this summer we sailed straight through but the year before was queues all the way up the hill from Chamonix which took an hour or so to get through.
I'm really torn - I like the idea of just doing France and staying over near Reims or somewhere but M25/M2/M20 on a Friday in school hols? Hmm...
I've driven from the NE a few times(not specifically to Switzerland, only once) in that general direction.
I've always set off from home early (6:30am at the latest), and I'll reach the Channel crossing of choice some time between 12 and 1pm. Once I've arrived in France, I'll do another hour driving, and I'm ready to stop for the night.
From there, Switzerland is easily in reach the next day, I usually leave my campsite no later than 7:30 am.
The North Sea ferries to Holland have never appealed to me for 2 reasons; 1- Cost, much more than Dover/Folkstone etc to France. 2- You don't really cover a lot of distance for the time you have travelled.
___PSA___
Don't get petrol in a Swiss motorway services. A coffee, 2 croissants and 31 litres of petrol cost me €91, in June this year. I wept.
The North Sea ferries to Holland have never appealed to me for 2 reasons; 1- Cost, much more than Dover/Folkstone etc to France. 2- You don't really cover a lot of distance for the time you have travelled.
Yeh, there are those things. Ferry looks like the best part of 1200 quid from Hull return. The tunnel is £400. Like the idea of chilling on the ferry but it still puts you nearly 2 hours further away from my destination once you land vs the tunnel.
Just looked at hotels near Reims - plan forming for driving down to the tunnel during the morning on Friday, through the tunnel and get to Reims for tea and I can get 2 rooms in an Ibis Budget (which are fine by me - more comfy than a 4 berth cabin on a ferry!) for about 150 euros. That leaves a 5.5 hour drive on the Saturday to get to Chamonix meaning a chilled day and chances to stop off for a couple of hours en-route somewhere nice for lunch etc.
Ferry looks like the best part of 1200 quid from Hull return. The tunnel is £400.
JFC! And the Dover-Calais ferry is way cheaper than the tunnel, and still pretty quick & chilled.
No-brainer for me travelling from NW England.
Don't get petrol in a Swiss motorway services. A coffee, 2 croissants and 31 litres of petrol cost me €91, in June this year. I wept.
Good practice to take food, drink, fuel, bike parts and basically everything you need into Switzerland, but it's eating out that feels the most offensive.
About £15 for a slice of cake, or £30-odd for a bit of lasagne at one café we stopped at the other year, if memory serves.
Solo? Honestly, just fly, unless there's a very, very specific reason to drive. Maybe your camper makes it worth it, but its not hard to find somewhere cheap to stay if you're not fussy. Fly to Geneva 90s mins from most of the UK, get a transfer 2hrs.
Driving is very expensive now, fuel is €2 a litre in France, it's €65 each way in tolls, unless your camper is bigger than a Transporter then it could be double. It's 14 hours driving from Rotherham, add in the crossing, rest stops it'll be closer to 20 and could cost £700 there and back.
Driving in France isn't what it was, the locals love to tailgate at distances you wouldn't believe are possible. You can forget 130kph on cruise, you'll be constantly moving lanes to go around lorries etc and then tailgated by Claude who wants to do 131kph and will slllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwy pass you, until you come up behind a Lorry.
If you really must drive, Channel Tunnel, Toll Roads, Cans of White Monster, try to drive as much as possible at night when it's easier, try not to die or kill anyone else.
We use Hull-Rotterdam most years but rarely heading straight down to French side of Alps. Not in school holidays now, so I plotted the daily prices to see when best to sail in September. About the cheapest it got was £250 each way (car, cabin and 2 people).
We had "interesting" delays going out..... Just about to leave early at 19:30 and there was some commotion from the crew. A guy had somehow got onto the secure side of the mooring and was sat on top of the buffer up against the ship. Every emergency service possible in attendance to talk him down. Eventually set sail after midnight. Late arrival so about 13:00 before we were driving, then car spat a coolant hose off in the evening near Bremen, so eventually 2 days late getting to Denmark 🙁.
As others have said, NL daytime motorway limit is now 100kph in most places and reasonably well adhered to.
Are you buying fuel in gold plated jerry cans @siscott85 ?
You'll find diesel at around 1€80 on autoroutes and below 1€60 at supermarkets.
It's now increasingly more common to witness the middle lane posse cruising under 130kmh, I don't know if this is due to EV owners being as economic as possible for range or something else, but it's certainly come to our attention over the last year. Now if you think that the French drive too close, check out the autostrade from Milan to Venice. You'd be relieved once you're driving in France after that experience.
I've not done the drive down since Sep 2023, but the French motorways were still a delight then - with very courteous drivers compared to the UK
I've not done the drive down since Sep 2023, but the French motorways were still a delight then - with very courteous drivers compared to the UK
Same for me in 2024, can't say I noticed the deterioration described above.
Happy to report French toll roads to the Alps (Summer 2025) are still an absolute pleasure and not as described at all.
Toll fees from Calais to Switzerland will be a shade over €50, for 462km of toll roads.
From my June 25 trip, coming out of Switzerland (around Basel somewhere) and hitting my first toll road near Lusse, before leaving at St Omer for Calais
Edit: As above, toll roads were great to drive on
It was our first euro road trip this year and found all the driving over there much more enjoyable/tolerable than over here. Yes there was some extreme tailgating witnessed, but it was pretty much entirely stress free. There were noticeably huge long stretches where we were sat bang on the speed limit without the constant up and down you end up with here because of everyone changing bloody lanes all the time.
As soon as we arrived back in the UK, it was instantly awful, busy, aggressive weaving in and out, brake checking, everything like that as soon as we hit the motorway and stuck at 40mph for miles and miles!!
Left La plagne this year at 8.30am and we got home to north wales at 2.30am. Two drivers and taking tunnel back.
In contrast: we left Les Arcs at 8.30am, got stuck in traffic almost immediately, had to take multiple diversions, got to Calais at 11pm only for the train to break down so had to take a later one. Got in to Bristol at 5am. I've done the Alps by car a few times and this was the first time it's gone badly wrong, just pointing out that it does happen.
check out the autostrade from Milan to Venice.
Any Autostrada, they drive like lunatics with no margin for error. Sitting 2m from a car at 130km/h in a minibus was just a bit worryin in Calabria.
Yep Italy's quite an experience, not helped by the quality of roadside facilities compared to the French aires. Those laybys that the truckers use are pretty much indistinguishable from the hard shoulder in many places. That's just plain weird.
Toll free from Basel to Calais:
A35 N to Selestat and to St Die
N59 / N4 to Nancy
A31 Metz and Luxembourg for fuel
Namour and A42 - Dunkirk / Calais.
Driving in France isn't what it was, the locals love to tailgate at distances you wouldn't believe are possible.
Easily solved; let them go.
You can forget 130kph on cruise
Try 140kmh speedo or 135 GPS because that's what locals who don't know the road will be doing. If they know where the fixed radars are (Ways) they'll only be worrying about mobile radars and doing 145 GPS. You might find the tailgating disappears. On UK plates you only need to worry about the mobile radars.
As for leccy cars, I rarely venture over 105kmh because that gets me the best journey times on multiple charge runs.
Driving here for over 40 years I find driving standards have improved when people are actually concentrating on driving but phone/screen use mean some people are elsewhere. I haven't been on the brakes/grass to avoid an on-coming overtaker in years, most people are somewhere near the speed limit most of the time, tailgating happens but as said easily solved, people respect pedestrain crossings (locally anyhow) and there are far more courteous drivers than dicks. The bad driving I see most often would probably be dismissed as "making progress" by STW petrolheads.
And I wouldn't drive to the Alps for less than a week OP.