[Closed] Driving standards/sense of entitlement.

It's well known in any other field that you need continuous training and improvement to maintain a resonable skill level. 10 hrs and a test at 17 then nothing more is a recipe for the disaster we already have.

Very sad incident in our town on Saturday night. Well lit straight part of main road, no other cars involved at 1.30am a young father and child died, don't know the full circumstances yet but when you drive by you can't unders5and how it actually happened. I do think re tests should be undertaken as i inly said to the mrs yestetday half the folk would fail.

On the other hand I recently pulled onto a 50mph main road having seen two bikes coming along at a great distance away.

I then discovered they must have been doing a hell of a lot more as they were immediately behind me, one pulled along side, one pulled in front, slowed me down to 40 mph odd and gave me a torrent of abuse.

you cant win.

When I go out on the road bike it feels as if the roads have become lawless.
Rarely see a police car and no fixed speed or anpr cameras in my area.

But what about heir human rights? They need to be able to drive to get to work/see family/ go to the drive through? Why should they have to maintain a safe standard to do that? It's bad enough we have to have an mot yearly to prove the car is safe to be on the road!

you cannot 'test' for attentiveness, common sense, apathy, selfishness, which is a cause of many problems and complaints. It isn't driving 'skill' that should be re-tested or improved.
Removing the human from the machine is the way forward.

Maybe it was the fact that you didn't go from 0 to 50 instantly and they were quite legitimately doing what ever speed they wanted. That they did catch you proves that. Usual underestimation of a bikes potential speed. Or did I bite the troll?

Anyway rude words was a bit naughty I accept.

"lawless"
To a great extent, this. No where near enough policing for many reasons. No social desire to do anything about it, eg sticking at least 2 zeros on any fines and its just not trendy to think. We live in a society where everything is done for us. .

I know we have these moans regular but good God I swear it's getting worse

I completely agree. Tailgating seems to be the norm now and I stick to the speed limit so seem to get it all the time, especially through 30 mph zones.

But what about heir human rights? They need to be able to drive to get to work/see family/ go to the drive through?

Almost word for word the lawyer said representing the prick that killed my cousin.

No mention of my cousins rights that were taken away in that incident, nor of his wife's and two boys human rights.

£500 fine for tacograph offences.

The law is an arse.

^ Tailgaters very quickly learn that I can drive real slowwwww . . .

they were quite legitimately doing what ever speed they wanted

"Interesting" point of view. It's evident the poster estimated their speed incorrectly though.

When I go out on the road bike it feels as if the roads have become lawless.

I get this feeling about the whole country now. Funny thing is though, when I go up to Scotland for work its a lot nicer up there. Must be an English thing.

I then discovered they must have been doing a hell of a lot more

The way our eyes work means that smaller objects appear to moving slower than they actually are. It's easier to estimate the speed of a car than a bike.

Never assume that anyone is driving to the speed limit either.

Standards and agressikn both seem to be worse I agree. I used to enjoy driving - now not so much.

When I go out on the road bike it feels as if the roads have become lawless.

They pretty much have. Almost a complete lack of policing leads people to push the boundaries of what they can get away with. Anyone else noticed that a red light now means two more cars can go through rather than stop.

I got threatened with "getting your fxxkin head kicked in" for having the temerity to say "you're welcome" to the angry man in the people mover who I'd waited to come through on my side of the road round some parked cars and failed to acknowledge my politeness. 😆

Theres a lot of angry self important people out there on the roads.

Tailgating seems to be the norm now and I stick to the speed limit so seem to get it all the time, especially through 30 mph zones.

20's are even worse.

People seem to get very upset if you have the temerity to drop your speed as you enter a 20 zone. I go through one regularly and I'm just waiting for the day that someone tries to thump me for obeying the law.

Anyone else noticed that a red light now means two more cars can go through rather than stop.

Yeah, this is definitely on the increase. You get a green light and can't set off because there's still cars streaming through the junction. People just don't care.

I remember someone on here commenting about tailgating. They said something like 'I stopped for an elderly lady to cross the road, then let three drivers out of Tesco's car park'. The driver behind should have had steam coming out of their ears.

If I'm tailgated I tend to drive more slowly, especially around bends. I'm sure it's safer for both of us. I usually have all day.

It's sad that the police don't have unmarked boring ordinary family cars, which seem to be a hate object for the driving gods on our roads.

I try to stay pretty relaxed on the road, but the thing that winds me up is other people's rude & inconsiderate 'me me me' behaviour.
My Dad used to be a black cabbie and just laughs at me. He tells me that I'll never change these people's behaviour so there's no point getting wound up over it. But, I can't help it. I'd love to be able to let it wash over me, but I find that really difficult.....

I think a lot of the time, it's not the stereotypical knuckle-head or young boy racer. I think a lot of people don't think there's anything wrong with (short list of annoyances):
- cutting the corner when turning into roads
- not indicating
- pulling onto roundabouts with no though about 'give way to the right'
- sneaking through gaps because the car in front is doing it so it must be OK
- leaving dual carriageway/motorway exits at the last second & having to squeeze into the queue.
- wrong lane at lights/roundabout and then just barge your way in
- joining dual carriageways/motorways with barely a glance in the mirror & expecting everyone to just get out of the way.....

I fully acknowledge that I am a far from perfect driver, but the one thing I do try to do without fail is be courteous to other driver's and try to not just think about my own situation. Until they start being dicks, that is..... 😆

Anyone else noticed that a red light now means two more cars can go through rather than stop.

Obviously this must be cyclists' fault. 🙁

Stopping at an [i]amber[/i] light seems to cause all kinds of red-faced confusion and gesticulations.

My Dad used to be a black cabbie

RacisT!

Theres a lot of angry self important people out there on the roads.

It's not just the roads where you encounter bitter angry people who feel they have no control over their lives and have the need to express their constrained anger at the way their life has turned out by acting like dicks, getting bumped into deliberately when shopping, bumped into on the pavement, people shoving in front of you in queues - all dicks.

Don't rise to their bait however easy it is to imaging grabbing their pugnacious face and bitch-slapping it repeatedly whilst saying "Please don't be a dick", it's best to ignore them and breath deeply - move on with a smile on your face.

It's not good for your stress levels and will cause your adrenal glands to go into overdrive producing cortisol which can weaken your immune system amongst many other deleterious effects on your health.

You'll never win the war against dicks, there are far too many of them.

- cutting the corner when turning into roads

I make a point of not giving way to these cocknockers. Funny watching them suddenly have to wrestle the steering wheel all over the place to try and get back over to the correct side of the road.

It's well known in any other field that you need continuous training and improvement to maintain a resonable skill level. 10 hrs and a test at 17 then nothing more is a recipe for the disaster we already have.

That implies that drivers who drive aggressively, carelessly or selfishly don't know better. Regular tests won't stop people behaving like arseholes between one test and the next. If anything having passed a test seems to elevate the sense of entitlement.

Regular tests won't stop people behaving like arseholes between one test and the next.

True, but various threads on here have reported that some folk find the Speed Awareness Courses genuinely quite interesting and feel that they actually learnt something.

So I think the same is likely to be true of regular re-tests, [i]*if*[/i] they are run properly. We all have bad habits and slipping standards. Test might remind people of what they are supposed to be doing, point out any misconceptions, and also cover any changes in rules/advice.

It would also help weed out some of the people that [i]really[/i] shouldn't be driving on medical/eyesight grounds!

On the other hand I recently pulled onto a 50mph main road having seen two bikes coming along at a great distance away.

I then discovered they must have been doing a hell of a lot more as they were immediately behind me, one pulled along side, one pulled in front, slowed me down to 40 mph odd and gave me a torrent of abuse.

This is a key argument against speeding that I always make on here but no-one seems to agree with.

If everyone sticks to a consistent speed then it makes it much easier for other people to assess your actions, and this kind of thing is less likely to happen.

If you put GPS enabled data loggers into everyone's car and used that to both monitor driving standards and price insurance, that would change the way people drive.

I couldn't give a rats ass if you think it's an invasion of your privacy, you're driving is an invasion of everyone else's safety.

molgrips - Member

If everyone sticks to a consistent speed then it makes it much easier for other people to assess your actions, and this kind of thing is less likely to happen.

TBH though, unless they were going spectacularly faster than the limit, it still sounds like olly2097 shouldn't have pulled out.

Within what you might call the normal range of speeding, it doesn't really make that much difference to gaps and closing speed- if it becomes a problem because someone else is doing 10mph over the limit, it was always dubious.

It goes both ways, it's not just overly fast drivers, 45 mph dawdelers deciding to slow an entire road down for miles on end. Be nice and let people who are not on a jolly do the speed limit.

For tailgaters in a 30mph zone I simply flick my rear view mirror so I cannot see them, out of sight out of mind 😉

It's funny but it seems everyone on here is a competent, capable and courteous driver.

The smug meter is off the scale on this thread! 😀

Yes I completely agree with the OP - driving really does seem to have gone downhill badly in the last few years. And regards tailgating - we have a 20 zone near us (as there are two schools next to each other). I have been overtaken on more than one occasion for having the audacity to drive at the speed limit through it.

Then there was the time I was a pedestrian walking down the pavement right outside the same schools and a woman mounted the kerb and drove fully on to the pavement (all four wheels) right in front of me as I was walking towards her as she (in her words) 'can't park on the zig zags' of the crossing she was seeking to avoid as she dropped off her kids at school.

Remarkable.

And another one that really boils my piss are people at roundabouts that go into the right lane and just go right around the roundabout so they can turn left just so they can avoid waiting for a minute or two in the queue.

TBH though, unless they were going spectacularly faster than the limit

Could have been either, couldn't it? Yes, drivers often do pull out infront of people, but bikers also speed a lot.

Be nice and let people who are not on a jolly do the speed limit.

Here's a test of your knowledge.

Is the designated speed limit the speed it's legal to drive at or the speed it's illegal to exceed?

pulling onto roundabouts with no though about 'give way to the right'

I'm noticing lots more people treating the left lane of a roundabout as some sort of filter lane and joining the roundabout when other cars are on it. And what's worse, getting really indignant when you toot at them having had to swerve to avoid them!

It's funny but it seems everyone on here is a competent, capable and courteous driver.

I'm sure I have plenty of bad habits and misconceptions too - but it is hard to spot them in yourself. That's one reason I support periodic re-tests.

Example: My wife had been driving for over 15 years mistakenly thinking that if the road has two lanes then it's a dual carriageway and thus a 70 limit. 😯

Likewise I'm quite sure that at least some of the car drivers pootling along at a steady 50 or 60 on actual dual carriageways think that they are at the speed limit.

I generally like to think I'm a good, attentive driver doing 25k a year. But then everyone else also thinks they are a good driver too.

As for my episode, maybe I shouldn't have pulled out but after they reprimanded me they certainly rode off at high speed which makes me think I'm only partially to blame.

But hey, bad driving and road rage happens every day. I'm guilty too I'm sure.

I'm noticing lots more people treating the left lane of a roundabout as some sort of filter lane and joining the roundabout when other cars are on it.

Round here there are loads of roundabouts where the left lane genuinely is a filter that skips past the roundabout - so that probably doesn't help!

Bring on the self-driving cars (unless they start producing special agressive version of the software!).

Likewise I'm quite sure that at least some of the car drivers pootling along at a steady 50 or 60 on actual dual carriageways think that they are at the speed limit.

Maybe they're just driving at the speed it's safe to drive at?

Likewise I'm quite sure that at least some of the car drivers pootling along at a steady 50 or 60 on actual dual carriageways think that they are at the speed limit.

The clue is in the word "limit". The limit is the maximum allowed, not a target to aim for.

Maybe they're just driving at the speed it's safe to drive at?

Yeah maybe. Or maybe they have a spare tyre on. Or engine trouble. Or they are hypermiling.

They don't [i]have[/i] to drive at the speed limit, that's fine, but I suspect (and anecdotes from the Speed Awareness course threads support this) that at least some of them just don't have a clue what the speed limit actually is.

gHere's a test of your knowledge.

Is the designated speed limit the speed it's legal to drive at or the speed it's illegal to exceed?

Did I say they had to speed up?

I said pull over and let people pass. Going 75% of the speed limit in reasonable conditions is rude. I doubt most people would be happy if on a train the journey took aassive % longer, not because of engineering works, not because of more rains on the line, not because of snow or leafs, but because one of the train drivers fancies a little poodle as he is doesn't care when he arrives.

The clue is in the word "limit". The limit is the maximum allowed, not a target to aim for.

See my reply above.

If it is safe to do so, you should drive at the speed limit. You can be failed in your driving test for 'not making reasonable progress'.

gobuchul -
It's funny but it seems everyone on here is a competent, capable and courteous driver.

You'll never hear me say I'm a good driver, I'm bloody awful, as anyone who has been unfortunate enough to be my passenger will attest (I'm worse on my own!) - I react to how other idiots drive, is my biggest failing.

BUT, what I do know (and do without thinking!) is how to indicate on roundabouts and on Mways. And how to get in the lane for the slip road I want BEFORE the 300m marker! And how to give cylists decent space on the road!

[quote=GrahamS ]Tailgating seems to be the norm now and I stick to the speed limit so seem to get it all the time, especially through 30 mph zones.
20's are even worse.
People seem to get very upset if you have the temerity to drop your speed as you enter a 20 zone. I go through one regularly and I'm just waiting for the day that someone tries to thump me for obeying the law.

Oh god, yes. I was out on Sunday in my MX5. Was in a long 20 zone driving through town (most of Edinburgh is a 20 now). Top down, my girly long hair blowing in the breeze, tunes on, enjoying the sun while pootling along at 20.

Guy in an SMAX behind me for about a mile was apoplectic! Punching his dashboard, shouting and swearing (could hear it even with all his windows up), flashing lights, beeping horn. Bizarre thing is, it was quite a big road and no cars coming the other way so he could have overtaken.
Quite loudly called me a dick as I turned off.

Other things I see that are pretty stupid:
Getting angry at someone in front of you who brakes or turns sharply then peeping at them. You were too close, not their fault.

In fact, peeping the horn. What do you think it is? The Horn of Ultimate Justice? Do you think the person will go home and say to their partner "Luv, I've been a dick out on the road. Better call up the DVLA and send my licence back"
It's there to let other people know you are there, not as a way to express emotion. That's what bitching on internet forums is for!

Yep - I had a guy the other day who got himself so wound up by being stuck behind me in a 20 for less than a mile that he went for a roaring overtake on the wrong side of a traffic island, requiring me and the oncoming car to brake hard to avoid hitting him.

And mini roundabouts. What is it with them that causes people to forget who has the right of way at a roundabout? Yet again (just this morning) I had to stop mid-turn as I was cut up by someone sailing onto the roundabout despite my indication that I was leaving at the last exit.

20's are even worse.

People seem to get very upset if you have the temerity to drop your speed as you enter a 20 zone. I go through one regularly and I'm just waiting for the day that someone tries to thump me for obeying the law.

The problem is the law is a tit.....
I'm all for 20 zones outside schools when the school is open ....

Equally I'm fine someone doing 20mph in a 50 if they have a heavy load etc.

I do get a trifle annoyed by those doing 15 in a 50 for no other reason that "It's perfectly legal" ....when the same people then never pull over.

Right now some company are outside my house putting in speed bumps
The only people (almost) who speed on my road are the police with lights and sirens who seem to have it as a rat run.... (several times a week usually after 10pm) - other than that it's incredibly rare unless the road is closed and there is a bike race (then lots of people are speeding as its a 30 zone)

We just had a "survey" about speed control measures... and I don't know ANYONE on the road said they wanted them.(I'm sure some did but i don't know any of them)... but we are getting them all the same... the cynic in me says the contract was already promised and bribes paid BEFORE they even sent the survey.

there are numerous mini roundabouts no-one asked for designed so its not actually safe to use them properly at any decent speed (like 20 mph) in a 50 zone).... its impossible for a bus... yet the police do regular winter patrols to hand out tickets to anyone who's wheels clip the middle.....

Not to mention the deliberately hidden speed signs where they change the speed limit and put the sign behind a tree then make thousands a month just catching people who are trying to obey the speed limit they can see.
My mum is a very slow driver ... a few years ago she got a ticket for doing 40 in a 30 zone... (along with tens of thousands of others) because the road was a 50 mph road they silently changed to a 100m stretch of 30 mph with sign hidden....

So sorry but many of these are actually put in place because of some revenue generating/bribe.... reason which is more seriously illegal IMHO than doing 30 past a school at midnight (when the rest of the road is a 50 mph road)

I can't help thinking more people would obey the signs if they were in anyway thought out and not implemented to collect fines and/or because some contractor paid a bribe.

there are numerous mini roundabouts no-one asked for designed so its not actually safe to use them properly at any decent speed (like 20 mph) in a 50 zone).... its impossible for a bus

You know you are't obliged to go around mini roundabouts? They are there to indicate rights of way.

Bit of a rant fail there.

So sorry but many of these are actually put in place because of some revenue generating/bribe

a) bollocks and
b) what's wrong with the police having revenue?

On corner cutting.

I've noticed this a lot when I'm cycling. Car coming the other way, turning right across my path. Rather than stop and wait for me to pass the junction they will turn in earlier and completely cut the corner (all four wheels the wrong side of the centre line).

Happens all the time. Its just shitty and inconsiderate

yet the police do regular winter patrols to hand out tickets to anyone who's wheels clip the middle.....

Is this really a thing? Never heard of that before? Why only in Winter?

We just had a "survey" about speed control measures... and I don't know ANYONE on the road said they wanted them.
...
I can't help thinking more people would obey the signs if they were in anyway thought out and not implemented to collect fines and/or because some contractor paid a bribe.

Well, by way of a counter that argument: our village actively campaigned to be made a 20 limit, including a petition signed by the majority of the local residents.

Now we have an advisory 20 limit and flashing speed signs. The majority of local residents completely ignore it and drive at 30 😆

It's funny but it seems everyone on here is a competent, capable and courteous driver.

I'm sure we're not perfect. I'll happily admit I make the occasional error or may have picked up some bad habits (I'm impatient...).

What makes a good driver is the ability to identify their weaknesses. It seems most people here have that ability - and I would say that we are all above average drivers.

molgrips - Member
there are numerous mini roundabouts no-one asked for designed so its not actually safe to use them properly at any decent speed (like 20 mph) in a 50 zone).... its impossible for a bus
You know you are't obliged to go around mini roundabouts? They are there to indicate rights of way.

Bit of a rant fail there.

It's not too late to check Section 188 of the Highway Code and correct yourself.

I suspect (and anecdotes from the Speed Awareness course threads support this) that at least some of them just don't have a clue what the speed limit actually is.

I don't doubt this for a moment.

When I did a SAC a few years ago, I think I was the only person in the room (other than the instructors) who knew a) what a single / dual carriageway actually was and b) what the NSLs were on them.

Just had a situation where I was sat in the van checking my emails before I left. It's chokka and I can see a chap in a car to my right sat waiting for a space . We make eye contact and he gestures to ask if I am leaving. Give him the thumbs up. As I start moving out of the space , a car pulls around him and the driver lines herself up to pull into the space I was in. So I pull back in and point to the car that was patiently waiting for the space. She then goes into a tirade of abusive hand signals and general horn blowing to which I shrug my shoulders and pull out on an angle to block her whilst matey parks in my now vacant space. Bless her

One thing I've noticed a lot lately is people that just have to keep coming when someone else is doing a manoeuvre or the road is narrowed by parked cars. Rather than stop 10 metres sooner when there's plenty of space to wait for 20 seconds and everyone can carry on with a friendly wave, they come right up close and then stop a few feet away, blocking the road. Then they end up reversing or driving on the pavement to sort it out. It's always something that was obvious when they were still halfway down the road too.

Is this really a thing? Never heard of that before? Why only in Winter?

Because its a lot harder when the ground is icy/frosty so people try and go straight rather than risk skidding....

[quote="molgrips"]You know you are't obliged to go around mini roundabouts? They are there to indicate rights of way.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4301351

Rule 188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. [b]All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so.[/b] Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.

a) bollocks and
b) what's wrong with the police having revenue?

Where do you think that revenue generation should stop .... should they be allowed to plant drugs or firearms ???
The police shouldn't have ANY revenue... how on earth can they really uphold the law when they can earn an enormous amount of revenue by mis-applying...

I should probably not tempt fate but I've never had a traffic offence EVER

[b]I have received a automatic PCN for pulling into a bus lane to let a fire engine with flashing lights past! [/b]

I personally didn't get stopped at the mini roundabout but I saw others being stopped and from what I heard (3rd hand from parents at my kids schools) they were fined for touching the centre part... but they were trying to be safe and avoid skidding on frost.

its impossible for a bus [to use them properly]

Section 188 of the Highway Code:

All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings [b]except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so[/b]

Also bit silly to be complaining about not being able to go through traffic calming measures fast is rather silly no?

sharkbait - Member
Bring on the self-driving cars (unless they start producing special agressive version of the software!).

They will have to have a designed in "Aggressive" mode for urban areas to threaten pedestrians - otherwise they will not be able to make any headway in towns/cities as people will just reclaim the streets. This isn't being talked about in any of the futures being put out there by vehicle industry, but autonomous vehicles in cities are impractical without (even more) severe restrictions on pedestrian/cyclist mobility.

When I did a SAC a few years ago, I think I was the only person in the room (other than the instructors) who knew a) what a single / dual carriageway actually was and b) what the NSLs were on them.

Yep - that was the point I was trying to make. If all the other folk on that SAC learned something that day (or at least the ones paying attention) then [i]maybe[/i] they would learn something on a periodic re-test too.

Which is kind of the point. In most other walks of life, if you were in charge of a bit of machinery that injured 180,000 people a year and killed 1,700 then you'd be forced to have regular certification tests. But for some reason driving is different.

One thing I've noticed a lot lately is people that just have to keep coming when someone else is doing a manoeuvre or the road is narrowed by parked cars. Rather than stop 10 metres sooner when there's plenty of space to wait for 20 seconds and everyone can carry on with a friendly wave, they come right up close and then stop a few feet away,

Where I live, parking's at a premium so I usually end up parallel-parking, reversing into a space. Despite being as clear as I can be with indicating, braking as soon as practical and slamming it into reverse the nanosecond I come to a halt I probably get one or two a week who crawl right up my arse so I can't reverse.

All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so

So it's obviously not a dangerous condition to do this or larger vehicles would not be allowed to use the mini roundabout.

Why fine a car driver for doing the same? Seems ridiculous.

I personally didn't get stopped at the mini roundabout but I saw others being stopped and from what I heard (3rd hand from parents at my kids schools) they were fined for touching the centre part... but they were trying to be safe and avoid skidding on frost.

I bet they just drove straight over the top of the roundabout with no attempt to go around it, but they're playing the victim* and the story has become "I juts brushed the paint and the nasty police told me off". If it's that icy then slow the **** down!

*Like the woman on a speed course with a colleague of mine. She was adamant that she was only 1mph over the limit, and it was silly that she was there, she'd not done anything wrong etc, etc. Turned out that she was doing 37 in a 30 but "everyone knows that you get 10% plus a few more, so that's 36mph, and I was only doing 1mph more than that." Also, as GrahamS has mentioned, knowledge of speed limits was atrocious. This sign:

[img] http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.7493694.1469460632!/image/image.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.7493694.1469460632!/image/image.jp g"/> [/img]

Means a limit anywhere betwene 40 and 80mph if you believe the attendees!

Oh, oh, oh. A chance to share my recent experiences. This has happened TWICE recently in Brizzle. I've waited, then pulled out to give a cyclist as much of his lane as possible while overtaking, and the driver of the car (and Van the second time) has both executed a close pass and tried to undertake at the same time. In-****ing-credible. 🙄

There's a wee narrow road in Duddingston Village next to Holyrood Park (Edinburgh again).

The people who live there all park their cars on one side of the street so if you're coming from the park you have to wait til there are no cars coming.

Quite a few times I've been driving towards the park (i.e. on the lane with no parked cars) and someone has just pulled out and expects me to stop or even to reverse? Obviously there is give and take with these things, but some people take the piss. I just keep driving til I reach them and stop. Then turn the engine off. Once someone refused to back up for so long I started reading a book. And that involved getting out of the car and going into the boot to fetch it. Took a while to sort that one out as they had a few cars behind them now that all had to reverse.

Again, my MX5 and girly hair adds an extra topping off pissed-off for them

So it's obviously not a dangerous condition to do this or larger vehicles would not be allowed to use the mini roundabout.

Why fine a car driver for doing the same? Seems ridiculous

Mini RABs slow traffic down due to the tight geometry of them. If you're just straightlining it in your car then you don't need to slow down, which makes the junction more dangerous. A coach or lorry would have to slow right down to get around it and still touch the paint, but the speed and danger have been reduced.

My employer is reasonably enlightened and insists that everyone undertakes a driving risk assessment every year. All the folks who think they're driving gods get selected for driver training....

They complain about being selected as if it's an insult to their manhood.

I think there are two issues , one is the aggressive type of driving most people describe and the other is the , perhaps elderly drivers whoa are so hesitant they seem petrified and who arguably should not be driving due to poor vision, nervousness /hesitancy .There should be re-testing for a number of reasons.Perhaps better public transport would help if people who shouldn't be driving had a realistic alternative.

T1000 - Member

They complain about being selected as if it's an insult to their manhood.

It is! Honestly, I think the most shocking thing I've ever done in my office was admit I'm shit at parking, people couldn't believe what I'd said. And I had someone fairly convinced that I was a convicted arsonist one time, that didn't get close to the amazement.

If you're just straightlining it in your car then you don't need to slow down, which makes the junction more dangerous.

I would disagree.

You still have to slow down to have a look at what's going on.

I'm not advocating just screaming straight across a junction.

I frequently clip the edge of centre marking when going straight across, I don't drive straight over the top but tend to skirt the edge and not follow the full curve of the markings. I don't do this any faster than I could follow the curve and cannot see how it is a dangerous act.

wrightyson its the van i reckon.

I notice that i ALWAYS get people pulling out on me , doing crazy over takes, cutting me up etc when im in the van.

when im out in the land rover people wave me out of junctions , dont cut me up and generally as im going slower dont have to do crazy overtakes....

I bet they just drove straight over the top of the roundabout with no attempt to go around it, but they're playing the victim* and the story has become "I juts brushed the paint and the nasty police told me off".

If it's that icy then slow the **** down!

It's not really that simple....
Whereas they MAY have done more than just touch it.... this roundabout has no purpose anyway.... its on a 50 stretch and just suddenly appears if you don't know its there....

I knew it was there and I was driving a RWD with very wide tyres and I have a lot of driving experience. It's in an area shaded by trees and I was driving VERY VERY SLOWLY already ... and I realised the gritter couldn't have gritted the roundabout as it would be impossible....

(The gritter couldn't go round the roundabout .... so it had only driven over it but I'd anticipated this...) My OH on the other hand has only been driving a few years ... and seen very little bad weather in that time and other than the first time refused to even drive when its icy...

Actually her bad experience being on the same roundabout the year before now I think about it and her car is half as long again as mine.

The SAFE thing to do on that roundabout with any risk of frost is to go more or less straight over it.... it's just incredibly badly designed...

Means a limit anywhere betwene 40 and 80mph if you believe the attendees!

Same area completely different sign....one you can read saying the 30 mph zone just ended and its NSL.... if you look (or know the bridge) this is just before a hard right bend ... and this road is often full of tourists who don't know it...
Who on earth thought of putting the end of the speed restriction on THAT side of the bridge? How hard would it be not to just keep the 30 across the bridge and dangerous bend at the other side?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8807762,-2.3985702,3a,75y,279.53h,83.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8-tW5iDw63HAEoCTZytVQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

its on a 50 stretch and just suddenly appears if you don't know its there

Sounds weird, got a streetview link?