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Kind of linking two good threads today .. the sports dopers and the driving testers
I sometimes wonder if we should have an upper limit on test attempts, or be a lot tougher on point/temp driving ban collectors. (I don't think there is already is there or have I just made myself look a complete divvy?)
At some point surely someone should say .. sorry I just really don't think so and so should be in charge of a ton+ of speeding metal, rubber and explosive fluids. Therefore you have to bike/bus/train for the rest of your life.
Now I understand that some of you on here could be 'those people', but at least through the media - I have no other way of knowing as I'm not in the law trade - you get the impression that too many people get too many chances, almost as if driving a car is a human right, i.e. the law isn't allowed to permanently stop them from doing it.
Privilege.
END OF THREAD.
Privilege
Privilege
Depends. I get what you are saying but its more complicated than that.
If you live in a city or large urban area then a car is not a basic human right, there are plenty of other ways of getting around. If you live in a rural area then not having access to a car can seriously effect your quality of life
Ohh go on then.
Right.
Privilege - But if you don't give them a license then they will just drive without one and without insurance too!
Ok
so any ideas at what point it should be taken away .. permanently, yeah ok 2 or 3 tests ( I passed 1st time, my wife passed 2nd) to get you eye in maybe but those that do 8 + are a little worrying (anyone remember that welsh lady on the telly in the lada/skoda from a decade ago?)
1 temp driving ban maybe dependant on the crime, but 2+ surely there's something wrong there?
Right*
*I'm a maverick.
If you live in a rural are then not having access to a car can seriously effect your quality of life
So don't live in a rural area then! Lifestyle choice; it's not something that's forced upon you.
Anyway, I have spoken, so once again dfor those what weren't listening;
[u]Privilege.[/u]
THREAD CLOSED.
yeah it's a right we need people mobile so a few traffic deaths are fine. Plus we are over populated!
If you live in the country there are ways around it, or you have to suffer the consequences and change your job. Wealthy gentleman farmer to county town Wetherspoons barstaff anyone?
Legally it's a privilege, that's why you have to have a license to do it, and it can be revoked if you don't abide by the rules.
Practically, though, in the UK it's now treated like a right that trumps pretty much everything else, including human life sometimes, sadly enough.
Anyway the driving i theUK is tiptop have you ever been to South Korea, Thailand or Italy!
AGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
Elfin might be right?!? I think??
In classic sweepingstatementwold.com forum stylee I'm trying to encourage the 'privilege' guys to suggest a cut-off point!?
EDIT: I'm in the privilege crowd by the way, as you'll see by my suggestions up there ^
insurance costs are turning it from a privilege to something only the privileged can afford to do.
i blame binners of course, and the north.
So don't live in a rural area then! Lifestyle choice; it's not something that's forced upon you.
FACT: Everyone is born in populated areas.
😀
Right.
Nobody has the right to restrict freedom of movement.
Some more populated than others
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-15181735 ]eeeeewwwwww!!![/url]
Elfin might be right?!?
About 'Elfin [i]might[/i] be right'; Elfin [i]is[/i] right.
The sooner the World realises this, the sooner we'll all be better off.
[b]THREAD CLOSED!!!!![/b]
FFS.... 🙄
Privilege. And the standard should be higher, test harder, infringements punished more harshly.
But I had a thick boss once from Newcastle who swore that a car was an 'essential'.
I told him essentials to me were food & water, and a roof over your head.
I love cars and driving BTW.
Thread re-opened
AGGGHHHHHHH!!!!Elfin might be right?!? I think??
I know. I'm scared too.
Thread Closed
It [i]should be[/i] a privilege...
So don't live in a rural area then! Lifestyle choice; it's not something that's forced upon you.
So everyone should move to London so they can catch the bus!
Privilege or Right
Neither
It's just something I can do when I want to
Nobody has the right to restrict freedom of movement.
Walking, Cycling, Bus, Taxi, Train
All worked for the first 27 years of my life some of which was semi-rural (edge of a village). I did pass driving test at 17 yrs but couldn't afford 4 wheels, though I admit I was allowed to borrow the parents
EDIT that journey was 1/2 mile to bus stop, 5 miles on bus to Town/Train station
Have a car now - 4k miles last year. I live in a town centre now
hmmm, not sure, I don't drive so opinion may not come to much, I sort of see that it's a priviledge, but I can see the point about rural areas too. Unless you want huge areas of britain urbanized, then the rural world has to exist, and without cars/lorries/vans whatever, then milk's not going to be delivered, cows/chickens/sheep not gonna get slaughtered.
It's not that simple.
Privilege, after failing your driving test for the 5th time you should be made to wait a few years before you can try again. Maybe 2/3 more attempts after that but if you still fail i'd suggest that for the good of other road users & pedestrians, it'd be better if they were not allowed to drive on public roads. Ideally i'd be stopping them after 3 attempts but realistically that'd never happen.
'Maureen' from driving school was a classic example of a person who has no business being trusted to drive a car on the road. People like her are great to laugh at until until they plough into a bus stop full of kids and pensioners.....
So everyone should move to London so they can catch the bus!
You can drive in London, but you have to be 8 quid + Then there is parking and your fancy sandwich and before you know it your wage has vaporized!
Whatever the form of transport,
No one has the right to restrict freedom of movement IMO.
With me it's more a liability than a privilege.
The rural world will still exist.
Not everyone are appalling drivers .. not everyone will need to be banned for life.
Just those that consistently veer from the rules, or cannot cope with the pressure of day to day driving will have to adapt their lifestyle.
A privilege earned, and the standards need to be higher than they are imo too
I know my mother in-law took her test a dozen times to pass. I've only ever been in a car with her driving once, never again!!
If you ever see here driving and wave/flash lights, walking or in another car, she'll never see you because she can't see anything past the patch of road directly in front of her bonnet.
She should not be driving imho
I agree with elfin, so I'll pick another occasion to prove he's not always right.
Our dependance on cars is already killing people, why single out those that drive dangerously.
About 'Elfin might be right'; Elfin is right.
The sooner the World realises this, the sooner we'll all be better off.
I can see you and me wife coming to blows....
No one has the right to restrict freedom of movement IMO.
Ever heard of Shank's pony?
Minimise the discrepency between examiners & test routes such that the test is standard.
The only logical step is to cull all the examiners and replace them with robots, with a simulated test instead of the real world. Obvious, really.
I blame the lack of education leading & class divides. Tory scum. Bankers.
bollox no one is restricting right to travel they're restricting type of travel, if your chosen method of travel endangers other people you can't do it. Apparently I'm not allowed to fly my helicopter from my back yard to the patch of grass outside work, it's a bloody travesty I tell you!Whatever the form of transport,No one has the right to restrict freedom of movement IMO.
Troll? Pretty sure I've seen similar from you previously BB
I say privilege.
"No one has the right to restrict freedom of movement IMO. "
No ones freedom is being restricted, you just cannot move around in a motor vehicle operated by yourself. Nothing stopping you going in another motorised vehicle, bicycle or shank's pony.
Our dependance on cars is already killing people, why single out those that drive dangerously.
People having kids is already affecting our planet - we should start limiting that too.
I say privilege.
"No one has the right to restrict freedom of movement IMO. "
No ones freedom is being restricted, you just cannot move around in a motor vehicle operated by yourself. Nothing stopping you going in another motorised vehicle, bicycle or shank's pony.
Privilege.
I'll through in a wildcard - driving is an honour.
People having kids is already affecting our planet - we should start limiting that too.
And you don't even need a license for that! Then they compound matters by putting the little buggers in a great big car to drive a half a mile to school.
Ahh, but.. if that person decides to drive a vehicle and they pass a reasonable ability to manuvre that vehicle (a test) then no one else has the right to restrict that persons freedom of movement, therefore a Right and a Right to choose.
Right, in the same way that freedom is a right - abuse your right and it will be taken away from you, the same way freedom is taken away from convicted criminals.
then the rural world has to exist, and without cars/lorries/vans whatever, then milk's not going to be delivered, cows/chickens/sheep not gonna get slaughtered.
Funnily, the world has got by for several hundred years without lorries and so on, people just lived on a more local scale.
Funnily, the world has got by for several hundred years without lorries and so on, people just lived on a more local scale.
Well give up your bike than as I'm pretty sure that will have been transported on plane and road!
It's a right
END OF THREAD!
Funnily, the world has got by for several hundred years without lorries and so on, people just lived on a more local scale.
Lot less people, though. You couldn't sustain today's population without mechanised transport.
Privilage.
You can fail 3 times, when you fail the 4th time you have 1 year break from tests in the hoppe you will spend it learning to drive, you then get 1 more chance to pass. If you fail a 5th time you loose that privilage.
3 strikes and your out for bans, though this could be harsher depending on the reason for the first 2 bans.
Well give up your bike than as I'm pretty sure that will have been transported on plane and road!It's a right
END OF THREAD!
And road transport will still continue .. just those that are exceptionally bad at performing said road transport will no longer be allowed.
The OP was based on limiting the exceptional few, not everyone
100% Privilege.
End of.
Lot less people, though. You couldn't sustain today's population without mechanised transport.
If you believe the hype then the world can't sustain our current format of [oil driven] mechanised transport, so maybe not being able to support the population is a blessing in disguise.
But again .. it's not a blanket stoppage .. just those that have proven themselves to have a certain level of ineptness at driving/sticking to the rules
Walking and cycling on the Queen's highway is a right. Driving is a privilege that requires a licence; one that can be withdrawn.
Basically any ideas on implementing.
No temp bans?
3 strikes and out
12 points makes a 1 yr ban, another 6 once back to driving makes a permanent ban?
driving while on a temp ban = permanent ban rather than just a fine or a slight extension to temp ban?
this kind of thing
Here's a controversial one: how about you fail your test a certain number of times ... say 6 (number plucked out of thin air) then you're not allowed to re-attempt for say 5 or 10 years years?
Driving is quite often a stressful event, if you consistently fail a test its surely a case of you're either not ready, or you unfortunately don't have the capacity to deal with stress while driving?
Privilege.
Compulsory retest tied in with the expiry of photo-licence to generate revenue and get the crap drivers off the road.
And of anyone uses the argument "I couldn't pass a test now" you shouldn't be driving!!!! 👿
If I have a skinful tonight and fancy a quick drive around town is it still my right to drive?
Here's a controversial one: how about you fail your test a certain number of times ... say 6 (number plucked out of thin air) then you're not allowed to re-attempt for say 5 or 10 years years?
Maybe it should be like entering the code on a car stereo - each attempt you have to wait longer until the next one. If you get to 10 failures you have to send back to the manufacturer to reset.
Another thought, with the extortionate cost of insurance, I know several people who have had driving lessons and passed their test (as birthday presents etc) then can't afford the thousands of pounds to buy and insure a car or motorbike. Is it sensible that they can drive after several years of having no practice and possibly having forgotten all that the lessons and test taught them?
often its more of a chore than anything.
Priviledge
3 attempts in a five year period
6 attempts and your out
12 points and you start again after having your licence removed
Another 12 points and your out
Retest every ten years, above rules apply.
Simple 😉
seems bloody daft to me Pistonbroke. You only really start learning to drive once you've passed your test and out there on the road on your own with all the other numpties. Waiting 7 years till you are 25 or something to buy a car is not safe! pass test get straight in a car and drive and learn.
Privilege and it should be removed from those that killer other road users. Drink drive twice public transport for you sunshine. 10 year retesting would be good too.
emsz - Member
hmmm, not sure, I don't drive so opinion may not come to much, I sort of see that it's a priviledge, but I can see the point about rural areas too. Unless you want huge areas of britain urbanized, then the rural world has to exist, and without cars/lorries/vans whatever, then milk's not going to be delivered, cows/chickens/sheep not gonna get slaughtered.It's not that simple.
I don't think you have understood the question. Driving being a privilege dose not mean milk and food stuffs would not be delivered, or that everyone have to live in towns and cities (currently the majority of people do).
It isn't a question of cars no cars, it's question of attitude towards driving.
Walking and cycling on the Queen's highway is a right. Driving is a privilege that requires a licence; one that can be withdrawn.
I'm not sure there's really that much of a difference - at the end of the day if the law changes the right's gone. You can't walk or cycle on a motorway, for example.
Unless cars themselves are declared illegal, I find it hard to consider driving as anything other than a right once you have shown yourself to be capable of safely exercising that right.
I don't think you have understood the question
Actually I think Emsz understood the question perfectly, has had a think about things, and posted a very reasonable response imo.
But as for the 'right' to drive a car; if this were so, then surely the Yerpean Commission for Human Rights would be insisting everyone had access to a car.
To me, 'Rights' are stuff like access to clean water, enough to eat, adequate safe warm housing, clothes, education and healthcare. The ability to gain self-respect and be valued for your efforts in society.
And to have access to that in society which anyone should be able to enjoy. Ergo, if an able bodied person can enjoy certain things, then it is the duty of society to ensure that those less able should equally be able to enjoy such things, as much as is possible.
A farmer needs to be able to get their produce to market, ultimately for all our benefit potentially, so maybe they have more 'rights' to motorised transportation than others, in our modern world. We would consider a patient with cancer the right to be able to have access to treatment that involved the very best in medical technology, woon't we?
Privilege, and a 10 year retest to remind all the 'good drivers' that:
35 in a 30 zone IS speeding, if you were supposed to do 35 then that's what the sign would say.
Blindspots- you don't suddenly grow an extra set of eyes in the side of your head when you pass the test.
Indicating correctly- yep, they're there to TELL people what you're GOING to do, not decorate what you're already doing.
Rant over, been a long day !!!
It's a priveledge I couldn't do without.
Put it another way. Not being a car owner/driver is an overwhelming feature of social deprivation in this country. My car less years were a lot less happy than my car owning ones. I'm relieved to be able to raise my daughter in a car owning family with all the priveledge that that bestows.
Given the choice between a month in jail or a years driving ban I'd take jail without hesitation.
Re test attempts you get three in Switzerland. The reasoning is that if you can't pass the (relativley difficult) test within 3 attempts your some sort of retard adn are only allowed a further atttempt subject to a psychologists assesment.