Driving instructor 'cheekiness'...

But its not the instructor who decides on route nor do the test is it?

Apparently "they always do the same route at this time" she says her examiner told her..<br />I have strongly warned her that the examiner could take her ANYWHERE, and thus she really should practice roundabouts and fast roads. 

But of course, She's 17 so knows everything and i'm just an idiot!

I dunno... it just feels a bit silly just prepping her for that one route.

<br />DrP

The goal is to pass the test. You then learn to drive!

And have you booked the test based on your driving instructors recommendation?

Or have you booked the test then gone looking for a driving instructor to polish some issues up?

Roundabouts and fast roads should be bog standard stuff though. Why don't you take her out and do those.

Nope, not common at all. My partner is a driving instructor, incredibly professional. The other local driving instructors I’ve met are also all very serious about safety, in fact being safe is their biggest coaching area rather than teaching them how to pass.

They are very keen on their pass rate though which it sounds like your step daughters instructor is taking too far.

She's had umpteen lessons with the instructor TBH. Started in July this year.. Aiming for a test mid-late december..

I just feel uncomfortable that someone could pass a test, but not be ready or safe for a few key components of being a moderately erasonable driver..

<br />DrP

Also - typical know-all teenager. Let her fail then have the conversation again and find a new instructor.

I was hoping this thread might feature the ex Aston Villa owner - Randy Lerner.

If the test is booked for mid morning there's not much you can do about it, and the instructor needs to prep her for that. What are you going to do, rebook it for months ahead just to get the first slot?

If you think she's not done enough of a certain kind of driving, what's stopping you hopping in the car with her and doing that for a couple of hours?

Seems a risky strategy unless the instructor knows for sure the route the test will take (which sounds dodgy), otherwise even if she is a competent driver then the stress of being unexpectedly sent on a different route could cause her to fail in itself.

Not the same situation but I failed my test first time as I messed up reversing around a corner, in lessons I'd only done it around a gentle bend on a calm road, in the test it was a right-angle bend and fairly heavy traffic and I ended up going too wide first attempt then clipped the kerb on the second attempt, so definitely helps to practice as many scenarios as you can...

Also - scoping a test area isn't unusual. My daughter did nothing but the area around the test centre in the weeks leading up to her test.

If the test is booked for mid morning there’s not much you can do about it, and the instructor needs to prep her for that. What are you going to do, rebook it for months ahead just to get the first slot?

You can change the test time/date/location with ease.. but only if a slot comes up!

what’s stopping you hopping in the car with her and doing that for a couple of hours?

Nothing, and this is also what we're doing.. I just found it strange we've managed to actually book a slot (driving tests are VERY in demand at the mo it seems) and are being told "it's not the right time"..

Also – typical know-all teenager. Let her fail then have the conversation again and find a new instructor.

Oh..absolutely.. this would be my approach!

<br />DrP

Before they are even entered into a test the learner will have had to have proven all the competencies and safety required. After that it is preparing the candidate for the test. But they should already be considered safe and ready to drive on their own.

My partner prepares a lesson plan for each student, leading up to the test they may familiarise them with the roads they may go on, but she wouldn’t just do that without being confident that the student is a good enough driver to be safe.

Its actually really interesting to speak to my partner about the subject, she is very professional about how she manages her students. She wouldn’t enter a student in for a test if she wasn’t 100% certain that student was ready to drive safely on their own at that time. All the other instructors seem very similar.

Personally I think that because now the instructors make a solid living out of their jobs, they are now able to focus on the safe driving aspects rather than getting people through quickly for the sake of it.

My instructor (many years ago) taught me to parallel park lining up stickers on his back windscreen to get angle right. Couldn’t park any other car until so was taught properly (and failed first test….) Would always want to learn to drive, not only pass the test.

We had two of our three take test routes the instructor had not expected - one was a new route to the instructor. Thank fully they had been well prepared to *drive* not just pass a test, and so coped.
I would have an issue with an instructor teaching to a route and a test.

But let us remind ourselves: passing a driving test means you have started to learn to drive. It is the minimum. All my lads had a) some extra input from me post test and b) a period of transition to driving solo with local and familiar journeys alone, then with *a* friend, then further afield, then more friends and an unfamiliar road etc.

Was going to say that this is trivial compared to the extent to which schools teach kids a mark scheme to pass an exam rather than a rounded knowledge of the subject.

But on reflection I guess being a safe and competent driver isn't that trivial matter, so fair point.

Don't attempt to change the slot, you could be waiting months. Daughter had months to wait for her test. Minor fail on a roundabout, but it was a six month wait for a new test slot. Fortunately, she passed second time.

As for practicing a particular route, erm no. Test can go anywhere.

My instructor (many years ago) taught me to parallel park lining up stickers on his back windscreen to get angle right. Couldn’t park any other car until so was taught properly (and failed first test….)

OP situation sounds very odd though. Unless there are backhanders involved the instructor cannot determine the route surely?

Someone I know left this profession due to her being told to 'teach the pupils to pass their test', not necessarily to drive.
It seems to be common practise, as I often see parents asking on a local facebook group, which is the best driving school to ensure my 'darling princess' passes her driving test.
Everyone wants shortcuts, everything done, asap and as cheaply as possible, this seems to be no exception.

Seems a risky strategy unless the instructor knows for sure the route the test will take (which sounds dodgy), otherwise even if she is a competent driver then the stress of being unexpectedly sent on a different route could cause her to fail in itself.

Does the test not now involve a section where they don't follow any instructions from the instructor and/or a bit where sat nav guides them?  That seems like its far from certain to be predictable.  Add in the possibility that on the particular day of the test there may be road works or other issues that cause a change of plan and it would seem a poor plan to only know how to drive one route.

That said, when I learned we drove three or four of the test routes repeatedly in the run up so I was familiar with the junctions, had probably reverse rounds those specific corners etc before.  My wife learned with her dad and (logically) sat her test at the nearest test centre, most of her school mates learned with driving instructors and sat their tests at a centre that was about 3 miles further away in the opposite direction - because its roundabouts were "nicer".

I'm surprised stuck in traffic is what you want as a learner sitting your test.  I can see it limits the ability for some types of error - but it means other drivers are less accommodating, you have to be super attentive.  If you need to change lanes there's no flow to do it in etc.

To me, it seems like he’s just prepping her to pass on this one particular (easy) test route, rather than actually make her a safe ans competent driver..

Could it not be both? It was a long time ago now but for both my bike and car tests my instructors focused on junctions etc that were regularly used in tests and passing the tests was obviously my goal. It wasn’t to the exclusion of general competence and safety though, far from it.

Do you have any reason to doubt she is ready to be let loose on the roads? Or just being a bit over concerned? Hopefully she has a competent driving instructor you should be able to trust.

but it means other drivers are less accommodating, you have to be super attentive.  If you need to change lanes there’s no flow to do it in etc.

<br />Exactly! The time slot we have is most certainly going to ensure the roads are clear and free flowing!

DrP

I took my test in rush hour, many years ago. Was a shorter route due to traffic but was much harder than driving at say 11am when the roads are free flowing. So I'd keep the mid-morning slot.

My instructor did take me round some of the routes, just to familiarise myself with a few of the oddities. But he definetly taught me to drive, not pass the test. He was a traffic cop at the time and next door neighbour and did it for a bit of extra beer money.

Interestingly my son passed his test just over a year ago. He ended up doing it in the family car rather than the instructor's car as they had a disagreement over the number of lessons he'd require. But similar thing regarding parallel parking. He was taught based on the instructors car and using reference points, so I had to teach him how to do it in our car based on where the rear wheel was. Strangely he can now parallel park any car.

But its not the instructor who decides on route nor do the test is it?

I guess if you use the same exam centre often you could build up a pretty good idea of which basic routes they will do. Definitely risky though if there is a different examiner than normal or even just an accident which means all the traffic gets shifted.
Doing some practice round the centre definitely makes sense though. When I did my test spent the last couple of lessons in that area just to deal with the "nerves for test + nerves driving somewhere unfamiliar = bad mix". Especially since it had a magic roundabout there.

Apparently “they always do the same route at this time” she says her examiner told her..

I had exactly the same when going in for my test (a long time ago), he was right and I passed with 2 minor faults

Whatever conclusions you come to DrP, isn’t the overriding factor:

But of course, She’s 17 so knows everything and i’m just an idiot!

Just Google the test centre and you'll get the routes. Obviously they can divert but the main route will be based on the published routes.

Fwiw, when my lad was learning neither his instructor or me took him out on to some dodgy slip roads on the A52 (Borrowash/Ockbrook junction) as they weren't on the test routes.

Guess where the examiner took him!

Prepare them for everything in the local area.

Hilarious that there's a thought that people "learn to drive" after they pass their test! Most people unlearn all the decent stuff and just learn how to be ignorant ****s!

Do you think she's a safe and confident driver already?

Tricky if you think the instructor is being difficult/blinkered/lazy about it, but she's on board with them.

Book a passplus once she's through.

Also teaches motorways

Hilarious that there’s a thought that people “learn to drive” after they pass their test! Most people unlearn all the decent stuff and just learn how to be ignorant ****!

This. It's a nice thought that the test is the minimum standard, but in reality it's pretty far above how most people drive.

Except me and everyone else here, of course 😁

Hilarious that there’s a thought that people “learn to drive” after they pass their test! Most people unlearn all the decent stuff and just learn how to be ignorant ****!

My daughter is a far better driver than when she passed her test 3 years ago, and only the other week just passed her HGV Class C test. 😜

So for more info... (play sad BBC R4 'our tune' music)

Back in the late 1900s (prob, erm, 1999 or something) my driving instructor told me "son, the examiner will NEVER take you past this junction on the A27..you'll go no further West than here..."

So on that fateful examination day, sweat rolling down from my slightly hairy arm pits, we headed west on the A27, and I picked up speed. Knowing FOR SURE that were soon to be leaving the A27 again, I didn't overtake the car that was pootling along ahead at a measly 45MPH. Because, OF COURSe, I'd be told "turn left here" in a matter of seconds. Except..nothing was said.. the "junction of certain exit" came and went. So I flicked the repeater to indcate my intention to overtake...sped up past the pootler, and carried on at about 68mph. A few miles later, those expected words came.. "turn left here, to leave the A27". I so did. carried on the test. and failed for "not making progress" amongst some other issues that, for sure, have made me the (probably) professional driver I am today.

So, dear reader, this mesage of test certainty not only affects the bolshy teen in question, but has, for sure, affected yours truly in the not too distant past as well...

Heed my warning..

DrP

My second attempt (which I passed) ended up being at the same time as a bin collection round and I caught up with the bin lorry going up a steep hill on a narrowish road (cars parked each side), I didn't think it was safe to pass (as would be well into the other lane before I had visibility of on-coming traffic) so ended up doing about 15 hill starts stuck behind it until our routes finally diverged. I still got a mark against me for lack of confidence or assertive driving or something similar pfft. I can recommend not scheduling a test on bin day though...

I nearly ran over an old lady as a result of not making progress.

That was the issue on test 1, where in reality I just wasn't ready. So on retake I was determined I wasn't going to fail for that.

So, we're on a 4 lane urban road (Reading side of Caversham bridge, FWIW) and there's a pedestrian light controlled crossing. The lights are red, we stop, me in the left lane of our two, and a white van pulls up alongside me and obscures the crossing from view. The lights go from red to flashing amber, and i'm now in a bind. On the left shoulder, voice 1 is saying - you can't see, it's not safe....and on the other ' make progress!'

So I nudge forward and there she is, about halfway across the crossing. So i stop.

All would be good if left here. Except, she has seen me as I see her, and she about turns and makes as if to go back towards the curb.

So I decide now's the time to go (lights are well green by this point)

Except, she's now seen me stop and has turned again to continue back over.... so i carry on while she's halfway over the crossing, and the inevitable fail follows.

Slight diversion, but roughly how many lessons does it take to pass the test, assuming no additional help from dad? I took my test in the US where the driving part was literally to drive round a suburban block and park (not parallel park) so my experience is not really applicable!

roughly how many lessons does it take to pass the test

Probably varies wildly?

FWIW I took 19 or 20 lessons and passed first time.  I will wait for other responses first to see if I should be smug about that or not 😁

Don't forget to get her to watch a bit of Ogmios to calm any nerves.

Ogmios School of Zen Motoring

There were "standard" test routes when I took my test back in the 70s. Those same streets were unsurprisingly often incorporated into lessons.

I passed my car and bike test on routes the instructor had pretty much forewarned me on exactly.  I then reccied every junction, crossing, school, speed limit etc.  I passed, tbh I was pretty nervous so the research reassured me.

Thinking about it now, if we d gone a different test route I d have probably freaked out, I was almost on auto pilot.

If it's a large driving school I think I'd consider making a complaint, their job is to teach you to drive. 

Don't think I even touched the test route when I learnt, I was taught to drive in a way that the acquired skills would be transferable to any road. 

Does Passplus cover Leeds Loop Road?

Another vote for doing it at a quiet time of day.
I had one minor - deviated from my lane on a complicated multi lane roundabout. Would have been a fail if there was anyone behind me.

If you tested on Teesside from the 70s through to 2000s you'll have three point turned outside our front window on Balfour Terrace, Linthorpe. OP, trust the local knowledge and do as the instructor suggests, but add some sort of post pass top up if the teenager can be persuaded.

My lass needed a test just after lockdown, the only place I could find a slot was Barrow-in-Furness, about 60 miles away. Cue three happy weekends spent over there driving all the published test routes on repeat. Not sure I want to go back any time soon.

(Passed, two minors).

2 mentions of "making progress" in this thread - careful boys, you'll trigger someone.

I passed in 1990. I'm fairly sure that part of the test was that you had to go on a "fast" road.

There were known routes. You didn't know which you'd get, but you wouldn't just go anywhere on a whim.

It seems weird to me that an instructor would decide that roundabouts were difficult and to be avoided, rather than go round them again and again and again until it became second nature.

Of course, some all or none of that may have changed since.

and failed for “not making progress”

I was about to say, did you not tell him "it's a limit not a target"😁

I failed my motorbike test for not making progress.

Pulled onto a DC behind a ditherer doing ~30, turning left at the next roundabout, by the time I realized this was going to be painfully slow and with cars flying up behind us making pulling out to overtake difficult/impossible it was a fail.

In my defense the school was crap, we'd had about 6 hours of actual time on the road on big bikes upto that point.

I just feel uncomfortable that someone could pass a test, but not be ready or safe for a few key components of being a moderately erasonable driver..

Just for your amusement, or not, my daughter is learning and has to do 1000km before she can sit the test but this can be on her own!!!!!.   Admittedly the instructor has to sign her as being up to it but even so

I lived in mid Herts and the most likely place to learn and be tested was St Albans, a city characterised by a heavily trafficked dense network of narrow roads and odd shaped junctions dating back to medieval times.  I took myself off to the modern and more spacious network road network that is Stevenage.  Not because I didn't think I could drive well enough but because I decided I wasn't going to fail due to a random snarl up caused by the road layout.  It worked, and to prove my point a few years later my sister was failed in St Albans because she had to stamp on the brakes due to a bit of random idiocy by another driver.

a few years later my sister was failed in St Albans because she had to stamp on the brakes due to a bit of random idiocy by another driver.

Why did that not count as her emergency stop test?