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Just back from 2 weeks in Morzine which included driving there and back from Glasgow. First time I'd driven on the opposite side of the road and I was a bit apprehensive. In hindsight it was an absolute doddle and actually very enjoyable. I was simply staggered at how good the roads were, both from a driving standard and the quality of the roads. In almost 2,200 miles we encountered zero traffic jams and about 1 mile of roadworks. given the tolls I appreciate why the roads are such good quality. But the driving standards were a real eye opener.
Some observations -
* Driving standards were amazingly high.
* Lane discipline was superb.
* No one hogged the middle or outside lane. Cars approached the car in front, indicated in plenty of time, pulled out for the overtake then pulled back in.
* There was very little disparity in speed between the slowest and fastest cars. Not once did we encounter anyone doing probably less than 5-10mph lower than the speed limit.
* Other than a few British cars and a couple of mad Swiss drivers, everyone obeyed the speed limit. I kept the speed limiter or cruise control at or below the relevant limits and there was never anyone rocketing past or tailgating you. With everyone doing close to or at the limit, overtaking and traffic flow was perfect.
* The speed limit of 81mph was great and no one died in a fiery inferno
* There were virtually no trucks on the roads we were on
So what the hell are the French doing that makes it all work so perfectly compared to the UK. The drive to/ from Glasgow to Dover was the polar opposite in almost every regard. Everyones obsession with being in the outside lane as that's the "fast" one. Cars and trucks varying between 40mph and 100mph+ on the motorway. People joining the motorway and instantly pulling into the middle lane and staying there. Near constant traffic jams and horrendous roadworks. Tailgating and road rage. swerving in and out of lanes without indicating. etc, etc.
It can't just be the fact they're toll roads, so is there something in the French driving test, laws or culture that makes it all so good?
One of the big differences is traffic density. France is a big country with lots of empty bits between big cities. Driving standards in and around big cities are about the same as the UK.
i found driving in france to be ace , as i did germany and holland and luxembourg
belgium on the other hand what a shower of bagstards.
they would actively block the british plates as soon as you indicated to move out - reminded me of driving in texas.
Having a smaller population living in a larger country helps a great deal. For a taste of home, drive through Paris 🙂
The biggest difference I have found is the lane discipline.
Apparently the French Police will pull you over and give you a ticket if you hog the wrong lane.
For some reason drivers in the UK just don't seem to understand how to use a motorway correctly.
You didn't get the car arriving at 150kph behind you flashing and indicator on because your not overtaking quick enough then?
Apart from that traffic density helps, also you don't use the autoroute for a 10min trip between junctions so it eliminates some of the idiots who should never be allowed on the motorway.
Totally agree. Motorway driving standards were very good when I was there last year. Two weeks and nothing at all. No tailgating, undertaking etc. etc.
Think I'd been back in the UK about 5 mins before I lost my shit with some lass trying to join a 70mph road doing 10mph at the end of the slip road right in front of me. She eventually came to a complete stop. Think she might still be there now!
Distances and population innit.
Loads of gridlock on D roads if you care to venture off the E'routes, even some A'routes suffer if coming close to a city (large or small)
But you are right, lots of very good drivers using the E'routes. I often travel France/Italy/Switzerland/Germany and in all honesty I'd say the driving experiance is very pleasant and stress free.
Here, well we just don't have the space do we.
So what the hell are the French doing that makes it all work so perfectly compared to the UK.
Charge tolls.
Driving in France is ace. I did +100miles with the cruise control on coming back last year from Samoens. Just the odd occasional tailgater was an annoyance but otherwise French M-way are very relaxing to drive on.
For some reason drivers in the UK just don't seem to understand how to use a motorway correctly.
try driving in the states. They only change lanes when there is something in front or they want the exit and happily overtake on either side. Makes UK drivers look like the Swiss (a German workmate lives in Basel and complains about how rule-obsessed they are...)
I agree that the speeds are more consistent on the autoroutes - I was bang on 130 (by the satnav rather than speedo) and found almost everyone else doing the same speed or a fraction slower (guessing 130 on speedo which is usually a little slower). Or the same for 110 zones. It does mean you can do almost the whole distance on cruise control without varying speed.
As said though, toll roads (I spent almost 40 Euros doing 300 miles) and the same population (give or take) with double the land area are big reasons why.
Just back from Spian - 1000+ miles each direction (mostly in France obvs)
Yes driving standard pretty good - The Belgians are mostly crappy drivers.
The only thing did take a while to get used to was they expect you to move out really early to overtake something slower - If you dont put out they assume it is fine to waft along 1mph faster than you. - dont think it was deliberate as all the locals pulled out waaaaay before I would.
They do have a minimum speed limit and lorries are banned from overtaking cars (/other lorries?) in some places.
N
PS first day back at work today and I got TWO PUNCTURES on the way to work!!!!
Generally, it's very good indeed throughout Europe (tailgating loons on the Autostradas and A8 in Germany aside.) Try heading South on the A6 out of Paris on a Saturday morning in August though. Makes the M6 look disciplined.
Definitely Belgium if you want to experience bad driving, tailgating at the speed limit with inches between cars, and flooring it up the inside, flooring it into a gap if you indicate to pull out,... edit: and really shonky road quality on the E40 between Liege and Brussels, that shakes your fillings out.
Germany for the speed differential, center lane hoggers, etc., and the sound of a SL55AMG or Cayenne Sport come flying past, that you can still hear as he's passing other cars half a kilometer up the road.
Italy varies a lot. Driving in the vicinity of Rome, Turin and the Dolomites is totally different ime.
French have 2.5x as much motorway per person than us. In addition the population centres are further apart. That's why it's empty.
I agree, it's a pleasure most of the time, big towns and cities are just as congested as over here with as many entitled drivers imo.
I've found driving in the UK relaxing compared to driving in Spain.
Always found driving down to the Alps a pleasant thing. Driving in this country is torture.
Except for the flat empty bit in the middle that is dull for 4 hrs.
Funny you mention the Swiss drivers. Here in Italy they know that they can't be ticketed by the Italian police so they drive at German Autobahn speeds.
They'll overtake on solid white lines in 50km zones with oncoming traffic, simply because they know they can't be ticketed.
They all drive BMWs and Audis, just like the idiots back home. 8)
German lane discipline is fantastic as said above getting someone travelling at 130mph makes you avoid hanging out in the fast lane.
Last year drove into Helsinki and was pissing myself as my two Finnish companions were saying how bad the traffic was, we didnt stop once or get held up at all. They are visiting later this year and will get their minds blown 😆
In France does much more freight get moved by train, if not I can't see why so few trucks are on the motorways?
I think the lack of trucks really affect people behaviour - I feel many less confident drivers over here stick to the middle and 'fast' lane because they don't want to be constantly changing lane to overtake trucks.
I love driving in France
The roads are good possibly due to better weather
Traffic is free going as mentioned lower volume of traffic. Lane control can go out of the window at peak times near Paris.
From memory France is 5 x larger than the UK with the same population but also similar road density per square mile.
French rest stops are great, apart from female toilets I am frequently reminded but even these are now very good on the proper serviced stops.
The only downside for me are the traffic lights which I confess I have missed on a couple of times. Colour blindness may not help.
Always found driving down to the Alps a pleasant thing. Driving in this country is torture.
Admittedly the weather conditions were horrific yesterday, but the M6 was was life and death stuff. So many instances where the inside lane was empty for a mile but the middle and outside lanes were rammed. Just set the cruise control to 10mph below the limit and cruise along in that inside lane overtaking when necessary. No doubt I would be the lunatic for swerving in and out of traffic rather than trundling along in the same lane...
German lane discipline is fantastic as said above getting someone travelling at 130mph makes you avoid hanging out in the fast lane.
I found the germans far worse than the french.
Sitting at 100mph+ and daring to move into the outside lane to overtake often ends up with someone trying to do the overtake from behind you at 150mph and 6 inches from your bumper with his hazards on and flashing his lights.
Germans seem to move and indicate at the same time, regardless of how big the gap. The french seem to indicate then move, giving plenty of space.
The UK is just nonsense though. I headed down to near the borders with a colleague for a funeral recently. She sat in the middle lane of the M74/M6 for 2 hours (braking when meeting a car in front of her and never moving into either the inside or outside lanes). I didn't want to say anything, but made a wee joke about it when we got back and she said "where the hell did you expect me to drive????"
Here, well we just don't [s]have the[/s] know how to use the space properly do we.
🙂
They have a weekend HGV ban.
They have a weekend HGV ban.
really? that explains a lot!
"They have a weekend HGV ban."
They have a Sunday HGV ban.
The weekend truck ban is longer from early July to mid August, when HGVs are banned from Saturday 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., and then from Saturday 10 p.m. to Sunday 10 p.m.
France seems to have more death wish boy racers than we do. Road death stats are higher than the UK afaik. As for traffic jams - hah.. yes, they DO have traffic jams around cities.. trust me.. 🙂
Anyone know the SS340 out of Lugano heading to/from Menagio on Como?
Well, it starts in Switzerland in Lugano then heads to Menagio, Italy towards Como. It's a two lane very small road running through a couple of tunnels along the lake. Well.. take it if you can at between 5-6pm on a week day where you'll find 15k mad Italians trying to get home from working in Switzerland.. The first part of the route in Switzerland is slow, mannered, then through the Customs into Italy and it's a busy day on the equivalent of an F1 start grid..
Quite shocking really how quick driving standards change in a 10k route.. 😆
Lane discipline in France is much much better than the UK. I consider myself reasonable at moving over and the French gf thinks I am terrible !
The toll roads are generally in excellent condition and relatively uncrowded as they are expensive.
If you drive a lot on non toll roads you'd find plenty of potholes. If you drive up/down on busy holiday weekends you'd find huge traffic jams, we've waited 4 hours in a jam just to pay the toll outside Lyon. Lots of speed cameras, I think the French are to speed cameras what the Brits are to CCTV.
In France does much more freight get moved by train, if not I can't see why so few trucks are on the motorways?
I think the lack of trucks really affect people behaviour - I feel many less confident drivers over here stick to the middle and 'fast' lane because they don't want to be constantly changing lane to overtake trucks.
Yes they use the railways more but the haulage companies avoid the toll roads if at all possible so all the lorries trundle around on the RN, plus as above no HGVs on many roads at the weekends.
I've driven a lot in France and it is better. I think there are a couple of reasons. It's a bigger country with a similar number of people - simply more road-space.
The pay motorways are generally pretty empty as people would prefer not pay - in particular trucks.
I also think higher speed limit and emptier roads helps with lane discipline.
Drive far enough up the M6 (Cumbria) or the toll bit and it can get quiet and folk behave themselves, those roads are in Northern France and relatively quiet, try driving into or around Paris on the periphique you'll soon encounter UK style and worse conditions..
Now if we started charging continental trucks as they come off the Ferry or out of the Tunnel a tax to help repair our roads, that would be a start.
Such a biased view from riding toll roads on a weekend.
I have spenc quite some time on french roads and driven in many countries.
French in the countryside are really nice to cyclist and often just wait behind till you signall to pass even when plenty of space and you are really slow.
These same monkies tough are horrible tailgaters on winding road with little or no overtaking opportunities and like to move back into your lane within 1m of the front of you vehicle even if its 3 times the size and 4 times the weight. They do have many road deads for a reason as well as good rally drivers. Drink and drive has gone down quite a bit because of policing as well as speeding my local friends are scared of loosing points.
About motorways don't forget that many area's are not densely populated tolls keep many a way especially the short local trippers so a lot less joining and leaving. And about your very few trucks, there are weekend bans or high trafic holiday bans for them. They are quite good at gunning it down on windy small D roads at any time of the day. Although new zealand west coast south island milk truck are still unbeatable in skills 😉
There is a general truck ban for sundays last saturday had a truck ban as well this may cloud your judgement.
The biggest difference is probably the A-roads in the North being so good - thank Napoleon for that.
rossatease - MemberNow if we started charging continental trucks as they come off the Ferry or out of the Tunnel a tax to help repair our roads, that would be a start.
Isn't there some consulation paper going on at the mo' on this??
I've done a lot of driving on the continent and very little of it is ever anywhere near as bad as the UK. The jolt to the system as soon as you're back in the UK's road network is normally significant. It always interests me to talk to people just back from their first road trip outside of the UK - such as my septuagenarian next door neighbour, who went on holiday to France for the first time the other year.
What really nixes it for us in the UK, aside from population growth, is the decades of non-investment by successive myopic governments, often using cod-science excuses for being 'anti-road'.
Forgetting other metrics, just looking at the miles of road built since 1990 is staggering and appalling:
[list][*]France: 2700[/*]
[*]Germany: 1200[/*]
[*]UK: 300[/*]
[/list]
There is now a general realisation that we need to act fast:
Easy to throw stats around though.
A denser country would not be able to fit more roads in, generally speaking, I'd have thought.
And personally I'd far rather be adapting our traffic to the roads we have than endlessly paving more countryside.
First day back at work today from 3 weeks driving across Czech, into Poland, popping into Slovakia, Austria,Hungary, Germany, Belgium and France before finally getting back to the UK on Saturday just gone. I've seen a lot of European driving in that time.
I think the worst was the more or less constant aggressive tailgating by 130mph BMW/Audi/Mercedes drivers in Germany and Austria. You have a look if it's safe, as always, pull into the outside lane to overtake, nobody around for miles, then almost instantly some twonk doing warp speed is all over your tail, honking and flashing.
Aside from those times, it was mostly pretty chilled.
Got back Saturday mid morning, and spent the next 3 hours in bumper to bumper trying to get from the M20, around to the M40.
Utter torture.
I also like how they often have flowers and that in the central reservation in Europe. Pretty innit...
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Hmmm. who broke the page formatting? everything after digga's post seems to be about 2 characters wide in the right hand margin.
[i]<mod> Fixed, sorry about that. </mod>[/i]
I think it was me throwing all them numbers about that made the forum freak out. I can't get in and edit my post now. Sorry.
I'll get me coat.
You have to remember London is a gigantic thing - not many places in the world like it. Going around the M25 is in no way comparable to buzzing across Europe. Compare London to Paris and they are both pretty mental at times. It's so big that most of the arterial routes go via it, which is clearly going to cause a traffic problem. I don't think other countries are laid out like this.
try driving in the states. They only change lanes when there is something in front or they want the exit and [b]happily overtake on either side[/b]
You know that's entirely legal there right...?
Yes they use the railways more but the haulage companies avoid the toll roads if at all possible so all the lorries trundle around on the RN, plus as above no HGVs on many roads at the weekends.
No they don't, we have massive amounts of rail freight, we're very similar in "ton/kms", but as their distances are much greater that's not an accurate picture. Outside the high speed routes France's rail network is a way behind ours.
I'd invite the OP to attempt driving the main north-to-south autoroutes at the beginning of French summer holidays, when the entire country drives to the south coast.
But most any other times the (toll) autoroutes are pretty good.
A roads and country lanes, erm, yes, well... Nutters aplenty.
Worth remember that the UK has quite a low incidence of road deaths, so we must be fairly reasonable at driving, on the whole, despite what it might seem when some dick cuts you up by joining the motorway at 10mph slower than you and pulling straight out to the outside lane forcing you to slam the anchors on.
Depends where you are, the traffic around Nice, Cannes etc. is awful. Their lane disciplinary on roundabouts is awful also. However, on the whole the driving experience in France is good.
Aside: why is the quality of country roads in this country compared to Europe so bad? All we seem to do is dump some gravel over the road and leave it, no attempt to fix the pot holes, cracks etc.
Ive also found that my car does better MPG in France than the UK. According to the computer our car was going about 4mpg better in France. This is driving on motorways to Calais and then Dover to Bristol. Made me think was it road surface, average speed, driving style. To me on many motorways the lanes looked thinner and maybe I was watching my speed more or the equivalent speed limits lower so saving more fuel.
mpg could be all manner of things.
I got better mpg driving from Swiss ski resort to Frankfurt than I did from Frankfurt to that ski resort. Ascent or descent of that hill wouldn't make a difference on a journey that long (but would on a short one). Both were on a Saturday, same time of day. Same roads. One was BP 97 octane, the other was Aral (which iirc is BP) 97 octane. Both sub zero, hence aircon off.
Maybe it's cos I'm desperate to get to the ski resort, but on the way home, tired, and don't care?
Road surfaces vary a lot even in one country. East German autobahns are ace. Excellent quality, some brand new, and deserted. West German ones are busy, several lanes wide in places, more deteriorated road surface.
And my street near frankfurt, is tarmac laid over cobbles, and the guy comes round and hand tamps fresh tarmac into the potholes once every few weeks.
bikebouy - Member
rossatease - Member
Now if we started charging continental trucks as they come off the Ferry or out of the Tunnel a tax to help repair our roads, that would be a start.Isn't there some consulation paper going on at the mo' on this??
Ooh good, it would make sense, the wear and tear from them is colossal not to mention the death rate, thanks to side swiping and watching movies as they plough into the back of slip road queues.. The further East they come from the worse they drive.
A few points:
Yep driving in France like most things is better on the whole than in the UK.
Slow speeds on conjested roads helped by people generally seeing "outside" as dangerous place combine to achieve a low death r ate per KM.
The "action for roads plan" is a fop to the haulage industry which sponsors this goverment, it mainly means increasing the speed limit on roads not built for high speed traffic.
There is also a proposed tax for foreign vehicles but no increases on Derv despite it being responsible for most polution and HGV's doing most damage to roads.
Traffic is bad in the UK because for years we mistaken Growth as a good thing.
I love driving in France. Even off the autoroutes, the roads are lovely and dead quiet.
In comparison, I came home from the south coast via the A34, M40, M6 and M62 late Friday night. A34 was torture, especially in the rain with people overtaking at a fraction more than the person in the inside. M40 was full of people happily sat in the middle lane because there was a lorry coming up on the inside (half a mile away), M6 wasn't actually too bad compared to normal apart from where the toll joins where it was 4 lanes down to 1 for roadworks which royally fked everything up and then further 3>1 roadworks further up the M6 at the Lymm viaduct and on the M62 and then more roadworks all around the northern section of the M60. Horrid drive.
Take what you want from it but the best part of the whole journey was the M6 Toll. £5 for twenty something miles of clear, smooth tarmac with only 1 moron in a Ford Ka who thought it'd be fun to speed up when I went past them. I'd happily pay £40/£50 for clear, pleasant toll roads from Halifax to the South West and Portsmouth 😉
Being on a bicycle in France is a better experience than the UK and driving most of the the time similar. There are some things that people do here that you very rarely see in the Uk though:
Red light running at night and in the early morning. It pays to slow down and have a good look before going through green lights early on Saturday and Sunday if you are on the minor road.
Drink: I still see cars wandering all over the road with drunks at the wheel.
Scooters: Expect them to do the unexpected, the seemingly impossible and the totally suicidal usually on just the back wheel.
Bikes: it seems every would-be TT rider wants to ride up my local hill in Summer and grind enough off the pegs to impress his mates in Munich, Paris or Leeds.
Foreigners: some of them don't even have the steering wheel where it should be.
I reckon the fact that the autoroutes have a sensible speed limit kind of helps - it kind of makes the lanes 60 - 70 - 80 rather than our mix of 55, 65, 95 (not necessarily in that order). when there are trucks on the autoroute they seem happy to bunch meaning that you only get the odd hurdle in the inside lane rather than a constant stream of slow vehicles rendering the inside lane useless to anyone who wants to "make progress"
Buses and trucks are all on the limiter so they can't/don't need to overtake except uphill where there is usually an extra lane on the inside for slow vehicles so overtaking trucks don't block the outer lane.
Portuguese trucks draft a few metres apart to save fuel but the gendarmes now have helicopters on the worst affected sections of the N10 to spot them.
I find it the same in Spain tbh...
I just think there's absolutely no imagination here when it comes to roads,sorta one motorways enuff when abroad they pop a few more in for good measure.
Considering how small we are it's a bit pants that it takes so long to get anywhere.
"A denser country would not be able to fit more roads in, generally speaking, I'd have thought."
Just been to morzine fir a week (driving) and we are now in the Netherlands. Much denser country, they don't seem to have any problems fitting in more roads. Every time I go there are new roads and new cycle paths. I have yet to find a pothole. And it's not the weather keeping the roads in better nic, it's maintainance and money. My sister does pay 100 euro road tax PER MONTH for her 2005 c4.
I do think the Dutch are terrible drivers, especially on the motor ways. Only the Belgians are worse.
Driving in France is lovely, well worth the toll twice a year. We decided on driving to Amsterdam from morzine via France/Luxembourg/Belgium and not via Germany (route preferred by the Dutch), and paying the 45 ish Euro toll.
Simone
The rural French drivers that I have mixed with don't seem to be able to manage a hill start. Always leave a big gap between you and the car in front when in traffic in a rural town.
I've never had the dubious pleasure of driving in a big French town or city.
The French haven't always been that good. Their death rate on the roads was way worse than the Italians, let alone the British (second best in the world AFAIK).
Only in the last 10 years or so have the french police got serious about speed and lane discipline, and the results speak for themselves. However, as others have said, lower density on Motoriways. And their RN roads between towns are often badly designed and sluggish with myopic elderly driving small cars at a snails pace, and are not a patch on our A roads. And anyone who has driven past Chambery at a weekend won't buy the no-queue rubbish.
What is the problem Frenchies have with being overtaken by Brits? I have constantly experienced French drivers whom I have overtaken speed up, overtake me then slot back in in front of me and reduce speed requiring me to overtake them again. All whilst I've had cruise control engaged and thus doing a constant speed. I've even had one idiot do this to me three times.
Generally I've found the Germans' lane discipline to be much better probably due to the possibility of having something powerful from Munich or Stuttgart approaching them from behind at warp speed.
Except for the flat empty bit in the middle that is dull for 4 hrs.
The midlands?
but the best part of the whole journey was the M6 Toll. £5 for twenty something miles of clear, smooth tarmac
especially so in my car... left hooker means passenger pays 😈
Driving on the continent is a pleasure (with the exception of the roads around Antwerp and Lilles) and the horrible bit is getting there via the M25, M26 and M20 - and wherever you started from in this vile little island.
I enjoyed driving in Paris, Athens and Joannina, and MrsJA had great fun in Thessaloniki (sort of).
Belgium's a bit shit on the motorways, though, which is a shame as I should like to change my nationality to Belgian more than anywhere else at the moment.
We're going to Germany soon, though, so I may revise my thoughts a bit. Looking forward to seeing if my car is good for 145 mph - and whether I am!
I enjoy driving I'm France
People seem to actually want to get to where they are going
I avoid it as much as possible here where most drivers seem to be asleep
I usually love driving in france but have just dro e Leeds to Spain on the 1st/2nd august, traditionally the busiest weekend on the french roads.
Uk bit was crap as would be expected. Took over 3 hour to get round Paris. Then the 4 1/2 hour journey from Clermont to Spain took 9 hours!!!
Worst journey through France ever. Never seen so much traffic on French roads and I've been driving down to the alps/pyrenees/Spain for 10 years or so.
It usually is great but I'll be avoiding that weekend in the future.
I avoid it as much as possible here where most drivers seem to be asleep
Hah.. if you want drivers not paying attention, go to the USA. Our biggest problem is aggression, but people are at least mostly concentrating. The US is awful for this - you see rafts of cars bombing along at 85 five feet apart, then you look at the drivers and half of them are texting, the other half are nattering and eating.
Worst journey through France ever. Never seen so much traffic on French roads and I've been driving down to the alps/pyrenees/Spain for 10 years or so.It usually is great but I'll be avoiding that weekend in the future.
First weekend in August is always bad. I made the mistake of visiting my folks once and had a succession of 20-30 minute queues at motorway toll booths.
I spent a month out in Northern Finland, and got used to driving on snow/ice, where max speed is probably 60mph and you leave MASSIVE gaps between cars because it takes so long to turn or stop. Rush hr was probably maybe passing 1 or 2 cars coming the other way.
We flew back into Heathrow and drove out onto the M25 into tea time rush hr. OMG! I've never felt claustrophobic in a car before, but doing 85mph, with 5 cars all trying to get into your boot was a real eye opener after a month away!! Amazing how we get used to it 😉
I've never felt claustrophobic in a car before, but doing 85mph,
Why were you doing 85mph? Why get into the impatient rep mix?
I've found that when it's busy on the M4 the outside lane is often full of flashy cars doing what you say, but the middle is quite peaceful with people doing 70 in lots of space.
M4 was classic for that.
Yes I used to centerlane hog the entire way from Bristol to London and back every Mon/Fri.
Left hand lane full of trucks and slow cars, Right Hand lane overloaded with repmobiles to the point it's going slower than the middle lane. Me in middle lane needle either on 70, or below, creeping up the inside of those in the "fast" lane, trying not to undertake as such but trying to stay out of blindspots and not purposefully hold up cars behind on technicalities.
NZ was the nicest place I've driven.
Population density is so low its actually negative, a network of roads that see the odd campervan every hour or so, meant driving was actually really really nice.
Until you got to auckland, which was a bit toss (for traffic).
NZ was really nice in general now I come to think of it. Remind me to emigrate there.