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But the public don’t have access to your drive (technically). Yes they can come onto your drive but they do not have the right of access over it.
So by that token, is a campsite (usual, or temporary for eg at a MTB event) a public place - given you are paying for permission to be there? I don't know the answer, just chucking out my head scratching?
Walking a mile away from the car towards a cab rank could be deemed a pretty compelling argument.
Devil's advocate.....with only a handful of loose change, and mortal drunk. I put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn't get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
Can you prove otherwise?
So by that token, is a campsite (usual, or temporary for eg at a MTB event) a public place – given you are paying for permission to be there? I don’t know the answer, just chucking out my head scratching?
I don't know for certain, but it's a public place just like a car park so I'd say you could technically be charged. Of course the same question could also be raised at camps sites up and down the country - drive your car / camper van there then get drunk but still have your car keys in your pocket... (although I guess with either of those scenarios it could be argued you had no intention to drive and you could prove so by having sleeping kit with you I guess).
put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn’t get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
I think your right. Another reason to download the uber app, you can get home no cash required.
Uber what ? I guess you assume that Uber is nation wide.....it's not.
Equally I'm.not going to drive my camper to a location and get an Uber home.
I've done the park up have a couple of glasses of wine in the back with my dinner all over the place. Im more worried about being vandalised or robbed than I am about being breathalysed and prosecuted tbh.
That sounds harsh so thanks for the heads up. Sometime what you imagine to be sensible isn't what the law considers to be ok. Often, I imagine, because the law is trying to catch someone before they start driving rather than waiting until they do. It requires a bit of interpretation and for some reason they went after you 🙁
I only recently learned that here is Belgium the drink driving limit for riding a bicycle is exactly the same as for a car (should have been obvious really) and that the penalties can be the same, ie. license suspended etc :(. Now if I'm drinking it is public transport. From time to time they stop absolutely everyone of an evening at a couple of places just to check , including bikes.
Nice to know in these times of austerity that the polis still have the resources to deal with this sort of maniac.
*listens to NWA*
Devil’s advocate…..with only a handful of loose change, and mortal drunk. I put it to you (Rumpole mode) that on finding out you couldn’t get home for 73p in loose coppers, that with judgement impaired you would have returned to the car and driven it home.
Apple Pay, cash at home for the driver or going via a cash point on the way to the rank.
If you are in your driveway and the gates are open it is a public place.
Same as a private carpark. Anywhere the public have access to is deemed a public place. Again, every day is a school day.
I was way over the limit so I was lumped into the same class as a drunk that swerves down a high street at 90 mph during a school run.
The law is an ass there.
I had to do a medical to get license back to prove I wasn’t an alcoholic, medical records from my doctor etc.
The officer that arrested me was very young and I have been told on several occasions ( including the Sergeant that booked me) that an older copper would have just sent me on my way with a bit of a talking to.
My point is, get educated.
@mark d
Sounds like a massively unlucky break and going on the motorcyclist thing you mentioned from a course, it sounds like you’re not the only one who has been caught out by policing that some might call over-zealous. In any case, you seem to have got this squared away in your own head so good on you.
You do realise, of course, that now you are more likely to be doing your traveling by bike, ‘comic’ irony dictates that you will be involved in an RTA with a pissed up parking attendant who is driving home from the monthly ‘top earners’ award dinner.........
Only joking, of course.
Uber what ? I guess you assume that Uber is nation wide…..it’s not.
As an uber driver I obviously know, just a lame plug for buisness, my fault for forgetting the wink emoji 🙄
Drac. That’s exactly it. It’s not up to them to prove I was going to do something, it’s up to me to prove I wasn’t.
Something I have learnt from being in the system.
I ran out of money and was using Apple Pay on my phone.
I called the Mrs and she left a voicemail saying get a cab back, I have £10 in my purse, I didn’t get that message until the next day!
I went back to my car because I always keep my debit card in it and I had cash from a customer in it.
I wasn’t thinking straight obviously as I was clearly drunk.
Do not have car keys attached to house keys is one thing. If I only had house keys I couldn’t have gotten into the car.
As a diabetic driver I got read the riot act by my nurse- if hypo in your car, get in the back seat, get the key away from you, do anything you can to make it look less drivey, after some arrests where someone had decided they should stop driving, pulled over, discovered they were hypo, treated it then sat in the car waiting to recover and got pulled. You're still "in charge" and there's really not much to be done about that but you can look less in charge and basically deter the police...
It always seemed like a completely shit law
I’ve done the park up have a couple of glasses of wine in the back with my dinner all over the place.
Have you considered a bib? Or drinking less wine until you've finished eating?
A side note. I was astounded by the lack of respect in a court situation.
I was suited and booted and honestly thought I was going to jail.
I was in bits.
The other people people in the waiting area were in tracksuits and high fiving each other as if it was nothing to be there.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
an older copper would have just sent me on my way with a bit of a talking to.
Even that's out of order. WTF has it got to do with a copper, old or otherwise? Bloody stupid law.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
Your right, for some it's just a jolly day out, some minor inconvenience. And for believers in progress justice, I've heard this time and time again from scrouts I've picked up. If you don't get a prison sentence you've got of with it. The only fear in court is from law abiding people like the OP who've made a "mistake".
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn't driven?
There was CCTV ?
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn’t driven?
But that makes no difference.
The cctv of the carpark would confirm the car wasn’t driven?
It would also confirm a pissed guy was sat in charge of his car, which I guess was the issue not the walking to the train with keys in his pocket.
T
I guess the moral of the story is don't piss off the carpark attendant ?
Just a quick hijack, but whats the law regarding a camper van or motorhome ? Say for example your parked up for the night on a site, get pissed and fall asleep. Would you still be committing an offence? Or parked up in Scotland on a wildcamp, still applies ?
The laws in Scotland around wild camping don't apply to camping in (or near) vehicles so the law isn't really any different. Bottom line is that if you're wild camping in a motorhome then you could potentially be drunk in charge, even though it's fairly unlikely (although there have been cases). Personally I don't drink if I've been wild camping, although it wouldn't really be an issue as my wife can drive the motorhome and she doesn't drink.
Yep, CCTV showed an argument and I had a very distinctive jacket ( Patagonia in blue)
It’s probably not worth carrying on the discussion, I was sounding out and trying to make other people aware.
Thanks for the warning Mark. I'm likely to be out in my camper tomorrow night so will take some precautions (like making sure it's in "sleeper" mode before going to the pub). Always good to have a wee reminder.
Glad you and Mrs are ok.
That sounds like a properly tough punishment. I know we're heading for zero tolerance of drink drive, but surely if there's CCTV showing you didn't / weren't driving, then your solicitor should have defended more robustly...?
Apple Pay, cash at home for the driver or going via a cash point on the way to the rank.
(Rumpole mode again)
All perfectly rational and reasonable suggestions, for a sober person with full control of thought and decision. But you were not, you were clearly well under the influence and incapable of rational thought or judgement. A person in that state could clearly make an unwise and irrational judgement. Just as you contend holding the keys does not signal intent to drive, having the Uber App on your phone doesn't show beyond doubt intent to use it.
Reading up on the offence it does sound like this clearly falls within the definition of the drunk in charge offence. The only defence is to prove no intention or likelyhood to drive - and lots of law firms show how they've defended against that. Based on the info here it does sound like that defence could/should have been presented so it'd be interesting to hear why the lawyer didn't think it was an option. Personally I'd have been shopping around for a law firm that would have defended it!
Glad you and Mrs are ok.
That sounds like a properly tough punishment. I know we’re heading for zero tolerance of drink drive, but surely if there’s CCTV showing you didn’t / weren’t driving, then your solicitor should have defended more robustly…?
This.
All perfectly rational and reasonable suggestions, for a sober person with full control of thought and decision. But you were not, you were clearly well under the influence and incapable of rational thought or judgement. A person in that state could clearly make an unwise and irrational judgement. Just as you contend holding the keys does not signal intent to drive, having the Uber App on your phone doesn’t show beyond doubt intent to use it.
I was away from my heading the opposite direction and walking towards the taxi rank. It's hard to drive my car from a mile away.
having the Uber App on your phone doesn’t show beyond doubt intent to use it.
No, but it refutes the augment that if you don't have any money you can't get a cab and you might return to the car. Remember you have to Show/prove that you have no intention of driving, it's just something that might might help it doesn't as of itself prove anything.
Anyway it's worth having because you get a great service at a good price (providing your in a coverage area), and if the gods are really shinning on you I might be your driver 👍👍👍
A side note. I was astounded by the lack of respect in a court situation.
I was suited and booted and honestly thought I was going to jail.
I was in bits.
The other people people in the waiting area were in tracksuits and high fiving each other as if it was nothing to be there.
It seemed like it ran in families and it was normal for them to be there.
I was astonished at the lack of respect the system.
I'm guessing that your respect for the system hasn't exactly been enhanced by your experiences, though? And I can't blame you for that.
Don’t have car keys on the house keys.
Simple. Now that I’m educated.
Martin. I work with the police on a day to day basis and most of them are pretty ok.
My point I suppose is trying to educate as most people will happily have a few beers and sleep it off in their cars thinking they are ok.
I am trying to give information and educate.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
Welcome to STW where some even argue with themselves.
No we don't. Yes, we do, so shut up. No, you shut up.
Martin. I work with the police on a day to day basis and most of them are pretty ok.
My point I suppose is trying to educate as most people will happily have a few beers and sleep it off in their cars thinking they are ok.
I am trying to give information and educate.
I’m not going to argue with anyone, Jesus.
That's appreciated. Just offering some sympathy as I think you've had a bum deal.
So, if I’m sitting in my house (as I am) having just had a few beers at the pub (as I have) and a copper comes to the door on some pretext and I unlock it with the keys that have my van keys on the same keyring, I can be done for being DIC??
Tbh nothing would surprise me these days....
Andy, no, that would be ridiculous.
But if you sat in your van in your drive with the keys on your person, then yes, you would be done.
And the police wonder why the public don’t like them much and would rather point and laugh at them when they are getting beat up struggling to detain someone than come to their assistance.
Really? I have never had a problem with the police that I didn’t bring to the party, and even then I wouldn’t ignore a cop in trouble.
I'm not really arguing either, it seems very harsh to me and I really didn't know about the reversal of 'beyond reasonable doubt' in this case. I'm just playing Devils Advocate for the prosecution - almost to absurdity I'll admit - but not totally beyond an argument that could be presented.
OP, how long did you get banned for?
And is there any way to appeal, on the basis of the effect it'll have on eg: insurance etc.?
Surprised your lawyer didn't want to put up a strong defence, says I on the basis on no experience whatsoever - that said I'm 2/3 of the way through the Secret Barrister book and I shouldn't be surprised by anything based on what I've read in that.
14 months because I was well over. Lowest they could go, very small fine though.
Lumped me into a different category.
I could have got licence back in August but have been kinda reflecting on things and wasn’t in a major rush to get it back.
Insurance wise I’m better off for going on the drink driver awareness course and from what they say I’m likely to get good quotes.
I have edited. It was actually about 14 months but I put it to the back of my mind.
I could have been driving 6 months ago but I am having difficulty in dealing with everything.
I can work without driving at the moment, but I need to get back on it.
If the blood alcohol level was high enough the plod might have taken the view that it was likely you'd have driven the car while still over the limit (i.e. in the morning after your sleep in the car). If so that might be why the lawyer didn't think it was worth trying to defend the case.
As epicSteve says from the summary does seem you have a defence. If you walked away then I would take that as an indicator you werent going to drive.
I am really, really not fond of drunk drivers, since I have scars from when some drunken moron decided to drive at 70 in a 30 zone and smacked my dads car, but it does seem a crap outcome in your case.
For the motorhome peeps I am curious if there is a market/already a device which has a breathalyser attached to a key safe. Okay it wouldnt be perfect but would sticking keys in a device only opening when "sober" be enough of a defence against driving.
This gets debated a lot on the motorhome forums however on a motorhome I think the only ways to be 100% sure are:
- overnight somewhere off the road that's designed for overnighting - campsite, Aire etc.
- have a sober driver in the motorhome
If the police turn up to move you on when you're parked somewhere that is effectively part of the road system (e.g. roadside or in a layby or car-park) and you're over the limit then you could have a problem. Still very unlikely but there have been a few cases - mainly folks sleeping it off in a campervan at the roadside.
My neighbour got prosecuted last summer for drunk driving/drunk in possession, he drove to the pub and parked in the harbour square car park, had quite a few drinks and when he left to go home it was pissing down so he wandered to his car to get a jacket and umbrella but as he was climbing inside the car to retrieve them a police car pulled up with blue lights and asked him to take a breathalyser test, he refused and mentioned he was merely getting a jacket and umbrella to walk home with but the police were having none of it and arrested him, after a struggle as he admitted he called them quite a few choice words which prob didn’t go in his favour in court.
18 month ban, £1500 fine and ordered to resit his test.
I know the policeman in question, he’s a ****ing arrogant piss pot nazi pig sucking cockweasel of a human.
Honestly sounds like your legal representation was pretty dire. I'd speak to someone who deals with motoring / drinking offenses.
For any one disbelieving of this situation, one of my cousins had almost exactly the same thing happened. The only difference was that he was parked on a mates drive.
He lost the spare key he was given whilst on a night out and didn’t want to wake up the house at 3am - so went to sleep in his car on an open drive. Shortly after he dropped off, there was a knock on the window and a couple of police officers.
He was still half-asleep and showed them the keys to prove ownership, as some neighbour had reported a stranger getting into a car on the drive. Big mistake. He spent the rest of the night in cells...
As a diabetic driver I got read the riot act by my nurse- if hypo in your car, get in the back seat, get the key away from you, do anything you can to make it look less drivey, after some arrests where someone had decided they should stop driving, pulled over, discovered they were hypo, treated it then sat in the car waiting to recover and got pulled. You’re still “in charge” and there’s really not much to be done about that but you can look less in charge and basically deter the police…
One of the reasons I don't drive (the main one being I had a hypo on a driving lesson. Didn't black out or anything but was pretty far from being in control, scared the shit out of me once I'd recovered.)
Firstly, I think you were treated harshly. There was no need for it to go that far and a decent officer with good judgement and experience may have dealt with things differently.
However, the offence had already been committed when the OP was walking away from the car I would think?
I was away from my heading the opposite direction and walking towards the taxi rank. It’s hard to drive my car from a mile away
This is irrelevant to the accusation, as he had already been “drunk in charge” when he was asleep in the car. And two witnesses and CCTV could prove it.
Enough evidence to say that he would have driven if the attendants hadn’t turned up, and nothing at all to prove that he wouldn’t.
As I say, it’s a crap decision to prosecute, but the fact that he was a mile away when he was nicked doesn’t provide a defence I don’t think, just shows they were pretty slow in picking him up for an offence that was already committed.
This is irrelevant to the accusation, as he had already been “drunk in charge” when he was asleep in the car. And two witnesses and CCTV could prove it.
Well done Neal for ignoring that the question was not about the OP and that I'd pretty much said the same as you when talking about the OP.
Well done for taking offence and picking fault at me making a perfectly valid point.
You really can be tiresome when you pick at people for no reason. 🙄
Plenty of other people have said “how could he be drunk in charge when he was a mile away”
That quote was just the nearest to cut and paste.
Did you actually disagree with anything I said, or just wanted to have a dig at me ?
Bloody hell ironary overload.
Feel for the OP. I had the exact opposite from the police many years ago, early 90s.
When I was in the army we were based about 30 mins drive from nearest large town, couldn’t afford b&bs or taxis so would kip in the cars.
One night in Ipswich, two of us in the car, passenger seat and rear seat, very drunk and asleep. Plod knock on the window and ask us to leave the car keys hidden outside of the car and advise us to have a big breakfast and a walk before driving home in the morning.
Did you actually disagree with anything I said, or just wanted to have a dig at me ?
?
I’d pretty much said the same as you when talking about the OP.
Goodnight.
Just wanted to have a dig then.
Tiresome.
Enough evidence to say that he would have driven if the attendants hadn’t turned up, and nothing at all to prove that he wouldn’t.
I guess it depends where the keys where etc. Thats where good lawyers to argue the legalities comes in I think (sadly I reckon a really good/expensive lawyer could get someone off when pissed out of their heads they mowed down a bunch of schoolkids and nuns or, more importantly, a cyclist).
I did know about the drunk in charge scenario so I would go for (assuming I wasnt so pissed not to think of it) putting my keys somewhere where hopefully it would be obvious I wasnt going to drive eg in my car the boot but if someone kicked off and wanted me out then I think I would probably grab them to lock the car.
The still being drunk morning after is an scenario which makes me wonder. Given my experience with a drunk driver I do try err to on the side of caution however many beers I have had(mostly work from home and the only day in the office is for a pint for which I deliberately either use the bus or ride on a sustrans offroad track for and dont drink days where I know I will be driving before lunch and heavily not at all) and in this scenario how could I prove it?
Again from the scenario given the OP has my sympathy which isnt something I would extend to someone I thought was going to drink drive.
So by the letter of the law if I leave my car on the road outside my house and go out for a few drinks and take my house keys with me which also has my car key on the fob, I am "drunk in charge" at anything over 1.5 pints?
If so then the law is, indeed, an ass.
I'd have fought this with every fibre of my being.
epicsteve
Member
If the blood alcohol level was high enough the plod might have taken the view that it was likely you’d have driven the car while still over the limit (i.e. in the morning after your sleep in the car).
AFAIK they're not allowed to charge you for things you might or might not do tomorrow morning. Otherwise they could arrest every drunk that owns a car.
Just one question.... did the OP give a breath sample?
Reason I ask is that there are circumstances where the suspected offender fails to give a breath test and is then prosecuted for failing to provide. As long as at the time the sample was required (demanded) there was reasonable suspicion that the person was or had been driving, or was drunk in charge, then the offence of refusing was complete.
If you give a sample when requested, then no matter what the reading, yu can then go about proving that you weren't driving or in charge etc. If however you refuse, the penalty is for refusing. Whether or not you had been driving or were in charge becomes irrelevant, as long as the requirement to provide was based on reasonable suspicion. the penalty for refusing is the same as the penalty for drink driving.
IANAL but if the point of the offense being committed was him in the car park then there's no evidence (needs failed breath test / blood / urine sample) he was over the drink drive limit at that exact time.
Being over the limit some time after the alleged offense occurs is not sufficient to prove you were over the limit at the time of the offense.
The opinions of two untrained parking attendants are irrelevant. There are plenty of other things that can cause the same or similar behaviour they observed - concussion / hypoglycemia etc.
As I said the point where your solicitor was confused was the point where you needed a different one.
Being over the limit some time after the alleged offense occurs is not sufficient to prove you were over the limit at the time of the offense.
IIRC There is a method the cops can use to do this - some sort of "countback" that extrapolates your BAC at the time of the offense from your BAC now. Rarely used tho
So by the letter of the law if I leave my car on the road outside my house and go out for a few drinks and take my house keys with me which also has my car key on the fob, I am “drunk in charge” at anything over 1.5 pints?
Or, it seems, if I’d gone to the car to get something last night after I’d had a few glasses of wine. The car is parked on the street.
Or, it seems, if I’d gone to the car to get something last night after I’d had a few glasses of wine. The car is parked on the street.
I've done this many times!
Does seem mad doesn't it. So would a defence be:
Blip to open car from a distance.
Put keys down on pavement
Get stuff from car
Return to key and lock
Walk away
- I'd argue that shows clarity of thought and absence of intent. As long as no one nicks your keys in the meantime.
Put keys down on pavement
The same petty police person would do you for littering as well.
Or, it seems, if I’d gone to the car to get something last night after I’d had a few glasses of wine. The car is parked on the street.
I’ve done this many times!
or even if it was on your drive with no gates/gates open according to an earlier post!
crackers.
I'm guessing that the problem in the OP's case was that walking a mile from the car is evidence of no intention to drive at that time and telling the car park guy he wanted to leave the car and had no intention to drive at that time but he had no proof that he wasn't planning to drive when he got in the car with the keys and fell asleep.
So by the letter of the law if I leave my car on the road outside my house and go out for a few drinks and take my house keys with me which also has my car key on the fob, I am “drunk in charge” at anything over 1.5 pints?
Not really no. Because you are at the pub and your car is at home.
If you went in sat in your car when you got home, then yes.
Scary, I'd never heard of this law, seems it applies in Scotland too.
what if you have a shitty Renault with the key-less entry credit card.
You have been to the pub and left the car at home sensibly as you were having a few.
As you walk to within 50m of your car it unlocks and the interior light comes on, and by chance there is a Policeperson walking on the other side of the road who hears the locks disengage.
Boom. In charge of vehicle whilst over ther DD limit
Although as its a Renault the keyless entry system probably stopped working 8 mths after it left the factory
Don’t take the car keys/card if you aren’t driving ?
Scary, I’d never heard of this law, seems it applies in Scotland too.
It has been the law since the breathalyser was introduced (if not before). It is normally applied with common sense - e.g. despite many people with camper vans making dramatic internet posts about it, I’ve never heard of anyone being charged when in the back of camper parked somewhere sensible. Normally it is used for the car that is found somewhere odd with the driver asleep at the wheel but no proof he drove in that condition or the person so pissed they are struggling to get in the car and the police don’t want to risk them actually trying to drive. You have at least three stages for common sense to filter out the “genuinely no intent to drive” - the police officers, the prosecutor, the court. There are many ways you can make it seem like you are not going to drive:
- don’t sit in the drivers seat (the peddles and s/wheel make it the least comfortable place to try and get a sleep)
- don’t put the keys in the ignition (and starting the ignition to keep warm is even worse)
- being in a sleeping bag/duvet shows you planned a sleep rather than fell asleep before you had a chance to drive
- being parked somewhere sensible, that looks like you are there for a while not like you dumped it there
- being straightforward with the police and not evasive (if you refuse a breath sample you will have committed a different offence even if you had a defence for the original one).
- telling others your plans, who could then be called to give evidence that you said you were going to sleep in the car, climb a hill and drive home at 5pm the following day. Better still if you send a text or similar which is “traceable”
- if you are popping out to get something from the car on the driveway leaving your house open, avoiding putting shoes or jackets on, only getting stuff out the car not climbing in etc all send provide context
- if you get as far as being cautioned and charged give a sensible response that tells them what your plans were - this may be one of the times when “no comment” is not the best policy.
The police and prosecutor both have plenty of work without dealing with complicated Drunk in Charge cases where a reasonably credible defence is being offered. Even the most officious or arrogant are usually more interested in dealing with people who pose a real threat than those who have shown the sense to walk away from a car.
I don’t want to suggest the OP is misleading us but I think there is a missing part to the story that meant his lawyer advised a guilty plea was his best course of action. Perhaps he refused a breath sample, or he did start the car, or he said something under caution or to the parking staff which suggested something different... ...if it was a simple “drunk in charge” offence the sentencing judge had the option to impose points not a ban which contradicts the suggestion that they said they “had no choice”.
The OP has now done his Drink Driver Rehab course (which will get him his license back 3 months quicker) but one of the downsides of these group courses is, like speed awareness course, it is a group of people who all believe the system was stacked against them and they were just unlucky. Being cynical the fact the OP is here (or on a more relevant site) with his warning after the course not after being stopped, or even after conviction but before the course, only makes me dubious that the version of events presented is the “really unlucky” one the course warned him about rather than perhaps reality.
Of course it’s also possible that the solicitor said he might be able to get him off at trial but there were no promises, the legal fees would be much higher and the fine etc would also be worse if he lost. In which case if the OP is one of the very large section of society who wouldn’t get legal aid to support this but who doesn’t have the cash to pay sitting around either, then I have much more sympathy for his (potentially ill advised or incorrect) guilty plea. The moral of the story is not that we need to worry about being caught drunk in charge when we get the wallet from our car - but that we need to worry about the state of criminal legal aid.
– being in a sleeping bag/duvet shows you planned a sleep rather than fell asleep before you had a chance to drive
Didn't help my brother. He still got done for DiC despite being asleep, in a sleeping bag, in the back seat of his car. Had the car keys in his trouser pocket.
If you need something from a car parked on the road and you've had a drink the advice I was given was to unlock/open one of the the passenger doors (this followed a spate of shift workers getting breathalysed / done for DiC as they left their houses at ~5am ).
Tillydog - I’m not saying that a sleeping bag in the backseat is a surefire way, and I’m not going to second guess which other factors did or did not apply in your brother’s case. Presumably he somehow failed to convince the court that he was not going to drive until sober. Perhaps that is because of what he did or did not tell the police at the time, or because whatever evidence he presented in court was not viewed as credible or reliable. People do find themselves before the courts in these sort of circumstances and do manage to present credible defences. Obviously not everyone who sleeps on the back seat drunk is going to be sober when they wake up in the morning and put the keys in the ignition though.
In somafunks example above the person refused to provide a sample - thats an immediate offence and no intent to drive is needed to prove it. Merely refusing to provide is enough.
I wonder how many others are the same?
Obviously not everyone who sleeps on the back seat drunk is going to be sober when they wake up in the morning and put the keys in the ignition though.
That's a fair assumption but how can you be charged with an offence that you haven't actually committed?
Greybeard. In my case I had to prove I wasn’t going to drive and as I was so far over the limit it was a good case for the cps to prosecute saying I could have done if not for the intervention of the carpark attendant.
I completely accept the decision, but I don’t like the fact I had to prove I wasn’t going to do something. I always thought it was up to them to prove that I was.
This is on my record for 11 years and I can’t hire a vehicle for at least 5.
Lost my job from losing licence, my house, can’t get another vehicle as no money, can’t earn money as no vehicle, can get insurance and car if had money but can’t start up again with a hire van, etc,etc
Let this be a warning to anyone.
I know many people will be very derogatory and high and mighty, but how many have had a drink with someone then bought them a drink back and driven home? Millions.
How many have slept in a car with keys on them, millions.
I might have saved a few through talking about my experience.
Poly. Thank you for your input. I did give a breath test.
If you want to put something to me in person I will answer all of your questions.
I’m sorry. You seem to have gone into some depth and I will answer questions if you need to put them to me by PM rather than just on here.
If there is anything in particular I can answer.
Same for anyone else, if I can help via a pm.
The edit function is a farce.
Remember to read a text before sending....
Regards
Mark
I was a bit quick to reply to this Poly and I apologise.
If you need something from a car parked on the road and you’ve had a drink the advice I was given was to unlock/open one of the the passenger doors.
Better still , just peel the top of the door down, or jemmy the door open. Even if someone sees you and calls the police , the chances of them coming out will be greatly reduced as they will think you are just a thieving scally 😉
On a serious note , I think I will start removing the van key from my house keys when I go out on the piss