[Closed] Driving at "Driving Test" standard.

Bought my examiner a bottle of vodka the night before my test 🙂
Ordered him not to drink it till the next night.
Passed first time.

"Show me how you would check that the power assisted steering is working before starting a journey."

Errrm, how do you check it then?

Obviously, they hadn't invented that when I took my test - and passed first time of course 😀

You check it by holding the steering wheel and starting the car. If you can move the steering wheel easily with the engine running then the power steering is working. Simple really.

When I finally did pass I only got 1 minor (bit annoying really, I went round a corner in 3rd muttered to myself 'should of done that in 2nd', examiner grinned said 'oh' and gave me a minor for it).

Bit of a pr!ck!!!

Personnally I say abolish driving tests and everyone should drive a car like they would ride a bike:

-Jump Reds
-Mount the pavement at random
-Bang on the roof of anyones car who gets a bit too close
-Race strangers.
-Disconnect your brakes and clutch and stay stuck in one, slightly too high, gear, whilest wearing hippster girls jeans and getting in everyones way (But looking "Bang on trend")...
-Drive home drunk along the pavement late at night with a plastic bag full of tennants attached to one side of the steering wheel...
-Do massive Wheelies/Skid/Endos whenever possible.
-Only ever drive anywhere when wearing suitable (expensive) clothing and a hydration pack, even if your just poping down the shops.

All of the above as applicable...

😆 😆 I like that Lol..

This will sound a harsh - it's meant to. You failed your test because you aren't yet safe to be allowed to drive by yourself on public roads. Observation and car control are the basic skills needed to drive safely and you dont ahve them yet. Come on - how difficult is it to stop a car rolling back on a hill?

As for he pull-push method of steering - it is by far the safest method of steering. Just think how you'd steer away from some plonker who stepped out in front of you at a junction if you had your hands all crossed up.

Contrary to popular belief, the way you are taught to drive IS the best way to drive. All of this "you only learn to drive after you pass your test" stuff is absolute bollocks. You only learn to drive badly after you pass your test.

I am glad you failed your test.

Rant over.

Sounds like you might have your head slightly up your ass there...
I always look before turning or changing lanes, i may not have cocked my head 45 degrees and take my eyes off the road to make it obvious, but i think thats a bit picky. To say I'm unsafe isn't very fair, I can drive really well, maybe not just to the way you need to drive in the test. No one I know drives the same way you were taught in the test.. most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex. Obv you would fail if you did this in a test. Not saying its safe but its how people drive..
Get off your high horse... 🙄

I failed my first test for speeding (33mph through a 30mph zone DOH!), second for hesitation puling out on to Leeds ring road during rush hour, passed third time.

I certainly drive with great awareness in built up areas, pretty much anywhere with housing or paths, but on motorways I go too fast

I had an aunt who failed multiple times. One failure she said: "I knew the examiner hated me. Every time I changed gear he deliberately threw himself forward in his seat."

& OP: I'm afraid to say that every time you post, you show everyone here exactly why you failed.

& OP: I'm afraid to say that every time you post, you show everyone here exactly why you failed.

You weren't in the car so I don't know what you're saying... 🙄

Another "driving god" you are i suspect 🙄

I passed on my second go, the nerves have a massive effect on your performance so it's not really a true reflection of your ability.

I'm an advanced police pursuit trained driver now. If you think your driving test was hard try being assessed three times a day whilst giving a running commentary driving at 100mph plus chasing a police driving instructor who occasionally slams on the brakes and starts reversing towards you at high speed.

I've had the good luck to do my driving test 4+ times.

1st motorbike at 17 (Ireland) - failed first time, passed second.

2nd - car at 18 (Ireland). Passed.

3rd - car (uk) at 25 - passed.

4th - motorbike (uk) 26 - passed.

IAM / police thingy - 32 - pass.

My BIL teaches blues and 2's for a living. His only instant blocker for anyone getting an advanced test is - an unwillingness to learn. Simple. If during an advanced test he says "that was a bit close" - never ever get near doing that again. Ever. The normal driving test is the same - your tester is getting tense near a T-juction, you should know / learn that you've fkd up. If you mess up - say so.

Lastly - the day you pass your test is the day you really start to learn. And if you drive for a living expect the police to be stricter than a head teacher on you about rules and regs (inc tyres, load limits etc etc).

most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex.

😯 Don't take any lessons from those mates eh!

Not saying its safe but its how people drive..

Not me. I try to stay in the correct lane on roundabouts. I find it helps to avoid other cars ploughing into me!

(And I wouldn't rate myself as a "driving god" or even just a "good driver")

You have no idea what SBZ used to do, have you? You're not ready to drive unsupervised and not mature enough to recognise this yet.
Patience padawan, it all comes to he who waits (and practices assiduously).

In another couple of years, I'll be finding a defensive driving coach and having another day out driving. It keeps you sharp and helps roll back the bad habits.

I always look before turning or changing lanes, i may not have cocked my head 45 degrees and take my eyes off the road to make it obvious

Your instructor should go through the sheet and work with you on the areas in question. To be honest I feel ashamed if a pupil gets into double figures on driver (minor) faults. It does sound like you've been put in for test too soon.

Passed first time 3 weeks ago... If you roll back its an automatic fail as you are not in control of the car. 🙄

I can drive really well... most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex... its how people drive.

Do me (and yourself) a favour, print that comment out, and revisit it in about ten years. It'll take longer, but it'll save us a lot of typing and it'll be interesting to read your thoughts then if you're still on STW.

most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex.

I can drive really well, maybe not just to the way you need to drive in the test.

You really just don't get it do you? Maybe you should digest some of the comments being made on here by people who are perfectly capable of driving in the way required to pass the test (hence by definition are better drivers than you).

I failed my first test.
The examiner said "Turn right at the mini-roundabout"

I looked at him incredulous, you want me to turn right at the roundabout? Hey, you're the gaffer, who I am to question your prowess?

A hand brake stop later and I was a failed individual. I'm glad I failed though. Taught me a bit.

20 odd years later, I'm getting better. Maybe I'll be pretty good in a few years.

I have to say i think most people here wouldn't have even noticed any of the minor errors i made during the test. The test is just an anal poncy way of driving that isn't realistic in the real world.

- you can't pass a test, yet you're a really good driver - is that based on lap times in Forza then?

I don't have a clue what that is, sounds like some computer game. I haven't touched any in over ten years.

I have to say i think most people here wouldn't have even noticed any of the minor errors i made during the test. The test is just an anal poncy way of driving that isn't realistic in the real world.

So if your claim to be a really good driver isn't based on driving ability in a computer game, quite clearly isn't based on having the necessary skill to pass a test (which is a basic minimum), what is it based on?

michaelmcc - Member

I have to say i think most people here wouldn't have even noticed any of the minor errors i made during the test. The test is just an anal poncy way of driving that isn't realistic in the real world.

So tell us, what did you actually fail [i]for[/i]? Totting up of minors? One consistent driving error judged as severe?

I choose to drive a little outside of the test spec when it's safe to but you say it's [i]unrealistic?[/i] Mmm. That I'm afraid is utter balls. And reflects badly on you, if you mean it seriously, that's a terrible attitude.

Not to be holier than though, if you were to test me how I choose to drive normally I'd fail no doubt (speeding, and occasionally disregarding a rule when I judge it appropriate.)

[b]Cougar[/b]Do me (and yourself) a favour, print that comment out, and revisit it in about ten years. It'll take longer, but it'll save us a lot of typing and it'll be interesting to read your thoughts then if you're still on STW.

Assuming he does somehow pass his test in that time, it seems quite unlikely he'll survive long enough to do that. Most likely another young male driver dead on a narrow country road, still at least he recognises motorways are dangerous... ...just a shame they are actually the safest roads in the country and he hasn't woken up to the rest!

I was a first time passer car and bike and therefore a superior driver ,despite learning in a small town with one set of traffic lights one mini roundabout and no dual carriage way and on a half day closing Weednesday when town was all but deserted

'm an advanced police pursuit trained driver now. If you think your driving test was hard try being assessed three times a day whilst giving a running commentary driving at 100mph plus chasing a police driving instructor who occasionally slams on the brakes and starts reversing towards you at high speed.

And all that without spilling coffee or jam doughnut on your lap

To say I'm unsafe isn't very fair, I can drive really well, maybe not just to the way you need to drive in the test

If you can't do something as simple as drive in the manner required to pass (and no matter what you say, the test is the [b]BASIC[/b] requirement), then you definitely shouldn't pass.

I see enough incompetent idiots every day who obviously could do this during their test.

Took me 3 goes to pass. First time I failed because my back tyre scuffed the curb on a parallel park which I thought was a bit harsh, especially as I only had a couple of minors as well. 2nd time I made some stupid mistakes due to nerves and quite rightly didn't pass.. 3rd one was a piece of piss.

I have to say i think most people here wouldn't have even noticed any of the minor errors i made during the test. The test is just an anal poncy way of driving that isn't realistic in the real world.

Are you saving up for an Audi too?

Aracer - the test really is harder nowadays. For different reasons. I did my test 3 times when I was 17, so it would have been 1993. I failed all 3! I passed in 2006 on my 4th attempt because I was older and wiser, plus I didn't get the panic I did with the examiner next to me like I did when I was younger.

Nowadays you really have to keep up with the traffic, drive at the same pace as everyone else, use your noggin a lot more. In 93 I remember the test being about doing things in a prescribed way in the car. Now that doesn't matter as much, you are free to drive in slightly different way as long as you are safe, observant, position yourself on the road in the right way. I liked it like that which is maybe why I passed in later life but I can imagine it being difficult for a newbie.

Another big difference nowadays is the amount of traffic on the road. It really does make a huge difference when you are trying to learn to drive - it's crazy now!

Yes the test is ****ing anal, thats the point. Still i think it should be harder because there are some right ****ing idiots on the road. And about no one noticing your driving faults, im sure they would. I notice every single fault (a normal, ie not police pursuit driver, would make) anyone makes whilst driving. Whether thats me or someone else driving. I quite often tell them about it if i think it will benefit them although most of the time people have a hissy fit if you tell them thy have done something wrong.

For god sake though mate, when you pass do a skid pan course. You'll realise just how easy it is for your little buddies in their 1.1 saxos to lose control on a roundabout. Even a passenger moving 6 inches can make a car lose control! I was shown this and its scary!

OP I think you do need to adjust your attitude a bit. the test is structured the way it is for a reason. its not an assessment of whether or not you are a "Really good driver" but how safe you are; how aware you are of whats going on around your vehicle, whats coming up that may affect you and how you apply that to the [u]control of your car.[/u]

for the purposes of the test you need to suspend your ideas of what constitutes a good driver and think about what the examiner is looking for. He's not "being anal" he's doing his job.. Assessing you as the potential opperator of a 2 ton 100mph steel box of death.

Driving with my missus in the car (who is currently learning) the questions she asks and things she spots does highlight just how much my own standards of observation and sloppy habbits can slip in a decade or so of driving. I think all drivers should be open to the idea that they are fallable despite any experience they have and how well their test went many moons ago.

I passed recently [first time] and while I cannot comment on past standards, current standards seem to me a minimum. Minor errors allow room for a few innocent/circumstantial cock-ups. I just wish that people would drive with test-level care at all times. If you want thrills, go riding.

Incidentally,

WRT straight-lining roundabouts, I see this every day on my drive to work. The problem is, no-one ever checks to see if there's anything, say, large and grey, already in the inside lane of the roundabout.

I knew everything when I was 18, too. But I'll tell you this for free; I guarantee, [i]guarantee[/i] that with twenty years' driving experience on top of regularly driving like I stole it, I could out-pace, out-manoeuvre and just generally out-drive any of your mates. And I'd put money on a large percentage of the people here being able to confidently make the same claim. These days I've worked out that I don't have to drive everywhere like my head's on fire, but I still get the odd Kevin trying it on. It's funny.

Also, critically, I'd know what to do if my bravery exceeded my ability and it all went wrong. Any halfwit can press the loud pedal and hang on whilst the car propels itself through the line of least resistance. Do you know what to do if you suddenly get massive understeer? Or oversteer? Quickly enough to apply that? Snap your fingers; decided? If not, you do what this fella in the Scooby did outside my house a couple of years ago.

[img] [/img]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how this thread has run. What happened to the Ford Focus ST mob that used to post a few years back? Have the wishes I got warned for come true?

Passed first go - many, many years ago now!

I thought I'd failed. When we stopped to do the three point turn a delivery van drew up just past us on the other side of the road then a couple of cars came along behind me. Without thinking I checked the mirror and blind spot, indicated and just drove on. The examiner said "What do you think your doing, I asked you to perform the three point turn?" I said theres no way we could do it here, traffic is building up behind me and people coming the other way might not see us past that van, better find somewhere else to do it. He just directed me back to the test centre and said "You've passed" - never did do the maneuver on the test.

Passed first time, although in those days all you had to do was not run over your flag man and keep the steam up...
It took two attempts for my class 1 hgv though,in an old twinsplit gearbox ERF, that WAS hard...

passed frist time back in 1999.

two minors.... the one i remember was for turning right when the instructor said "turn left". i've a bit of a right/left weakness.

i'm not sure if i should be re-doing my test in germany as i've been resident here for over two years, but each time i've been stopped the old bill didn't worry.

i think the german test is harder and includes 12 hours of classroom learning.

edit: i have a friend who passed on his 13th test. i think he spent over £10k learning to drive. he called out the AA because he couldn't change a tyre.

I passed 2nd time. Back in the early 80's pre theory test.
1st time I started the car up without checking it was in gear. Unfortunately the instructor had moved it just before the test (to make it easier to get out) and had left it in reverse... I then preceeded to gun the throttle to pull out (I'd stalled once on the lesson beforehand) and shot out into the road. I did okay after that though... 😳
The guy did ask only the very minimum HC questions though.
2nd time apparently I did something wrong with the lanes on approach to a set of lights. I knew i had it in the bag when the Instructor asked almost half the highway code at the end though. He said he thought I was a bit borderline but with my knowledge of the HC he was prepared to put it down to nerves...
I have no presumption about being an awesome driving god. 😀
The feeling after failing was a real low. Equally the high after passing was awesome...
I have no doubt failing the first time made me a better driver.

he called out the AA because he couldn't change a tyre.

Passed third time. It was so long ago I can't really remember why other than being borderline hysterically terrified and something to do with a tractor.

Still I did pass my bike test first time some years later and managed 48 out of 50 on the test someone posted a link to a page or so back.

I do seem to remember my new instructor (after I'd failed twice) remarking - after our first lesson - that even tho I'd driven very slowly I was "unsafe at any speed". That's the kind of motivational stuff you need 😉

No one I know drives the same way you were taught in the test.. most of my mates try to hit roundabouts at speed and hit the apex. Obv you would fail if you did this in a test.

Ok so maybe I didn't word this how i meant it, but I'm still trying to make a point that most people drive a lot differently in real life to the test. And no I don't intend on driving like that. But anyway the amount of drivers that drive roundabouts at speed without indicating is ridiculous.

I choose to drive a little outside of the test spec when it's safe to but you say it's unrealistic? Mmm. That I'm afraid is utter balls. And reflects badly on you, if you mean it seriously, that's a terrible attitude.

So do you turn your head 45 degrees when looking in mirrors then????????????????

I'm afraid [b]that[/b] is utter balls.....

Assuming he does somehow pass his test in that time, it seems quite unlikely he'll survive long enough to do that. Most likely another young male driver dead on a narrow country road, still at least he recognises motorways are dangerous... ...just a shame they are actually the safest roads in the country and he hasn't woken up to the rest!

Thats utter pants... 🙄

I think people training for the test are probably the safest drivers out there... I believe this... after that most people seem to forget everything in the test and drive too fast, don't bother indicating, change lanes like they own the road, etc.

It's a bit of a lottery whether you pass or not it seems, depending on the mood of the driver and how many people have passed that week etc. I'll back this up with the poster who said his mate passed on about the 8th attempt and is still terrible at driving.

You wont have failed because you didnt turn your head to 45 degrees to look in a mirror. You'll have failed because you didnt look. Driving examiners are trained to look for eye movement when assessing mirror use. What you need to remember is that driving examiners dont just test learners on their car test, they also assess experienced drivers for many various things.

So tell us, what did you actually fail for? Totting up of minors? One consistent driving error judged as severe?

I've already said the main thing I clocked up errors for was observation, even though i always look when changing lanes, moving off etc, the examiner might not have seen me look.

Also got a few errors for road positioning when stopping, turning right, turning left.. even though i made sure i followed the curb when turning left and drove very carefully. I did cross the white stop line once by about half a foot or so, so probably got marked down for that. There was a few right turns where i didn't see which turn it was until late so didn't get the best line around... didn't think he'd mark me down for it though.

Btw over here in Ireland we're only allowed nine grade 2 errors, not 16. Also it seems by other posters that the test has got a lot harder over the years..

Passed 1st time in Bradford 1965 & bought a A35 van £60. Nearest motorway was the Preston by-pass & the M1 had only reached Northamptonshire. There was no speed limit on motorways and the bangers I drove back then wouldn't have been safe at 50 never mind anything higher!

In the Mods & Rocker era I had a Cortina Mark 1 where we travelled to Brighton, Clacton, Gt Yarmouth & Scarboro & tuned into pirate radio. Ah! the distant memories.

Driving test was about 25 minutes + 3 highway code questions. I'd say the test is a lot harder these days. Interestingly, we were taught only to signal on roundabouts when exiting.

Rightly or wrongly, I've always thought examiners passed those who they felt 'safe' being a passenger with. They produced the failed tick list so they didn't have an argument with the learner driver

michaelmcc - Member

So do you turn your head 45 degrees when looking in mirrors then????????????????

Excuse me but wtf are you talking about now?

Think about it this way- you say you're a really good driver but test-standard driving is in some way wrong. Now even if you're right why is it that with the adequate driving ability you think you have, you can't drive to the test standard which you think you understand well enough to judge?

Observation doesn't just mean "looking while changing lanes and moving off"- though that might just be your turn of phrase.

Northwind - Member
michaelmcc - Member
So do you turn your head 45 degrees when looking in mirrors then????????????????

Excuse me but wtf are you talking about now?

Think about it this way- you say you're a really good driver but test-standard driving is in some way wrong. Now even if you're right why is it that with the adequate driving ability you think you have, you can't drive to the test standard which you think you understand well enough to judge?

Observation doesn't just mean "looking while changing lanes and moving off"- though that might just be your turn of phrase.

Because it seems you need to turn your head a lot and show the examiner that you're looking.. not just moving your eyes. To me it's a lottery whether you pass the test or not, It seems to be very much based on the person you get on the day, and traffic etc.

And why are so many people on here hiding behind fake names as a cover up to their silly talk.. i probably know a lot of people on here.

Eric 64 I don't like jam. Do like a nice coffee though.

I think a huge number of people mistakenly think they are great drivs as they have nothing to compare it to and any instruction they have relates purely to passing the test. Not only that, butdriving safely with any speed on the road is a completely different skill to being able to get a car round a track quickly. I say this as a class 1 police driver and someone who has done quite a few track days. I'm lucky that i get to thrash a job car around because it means I can pootle about in my own car without feeling like I'm missing out on any fun. I've also been unfortunate enough to turn up to a number of collisions where poor driving has cost people their lives. You should never overestimate how good your car control is or underestimate the stupidity of other road users.

You should never overestimate how good your car control is

Too true. I remember one of our instructors used to say the first skill you need is to be able to recognise your faults.

I've said it before here lots of times, seems especially relevant for the OP: being a good driver starts with having the right attitude. No amount of 'skill' will save you if you have the wrong attitude.

When you've passed the test, come and have a go at the advanced one 🙂

www.iam.org.uk

Passed first time after 7 lessons in 1982, never went out of the 30 limits due lessons or test. Also didn't do an emergency stop nor a hill start (Goole is rather flat) during my test.

Passed my m/c test the same week, back then the instructor just stood at the side of the road and watched (well, since I was on an RD250 with expansions) he could also hear me 🙂

Thats utter pants...

Which bit? That you are much more likely to die on a country road than a motorway? Because I'm sorry, no matter how you "cut it" the evidence is quite clear that motorways are our safest roads, and high speed collision on country roads are the biggest killer of young men behind the wheel.

Hopefully you won't take out any innocent road users on the way.

michaelmcc - Member

Because it seems you need to turn your head a lot and show the examiner that you're looking.. not just moving your eyes.

Not really... In fact, not at all. In both my tests- bike and car- I just made my obs completely normally. You show the examiner that you're looking by acting appropriately on what you see.

Obviously I wasn't there for yours but what I was getting at earlier is that there's more ways to fail on obs, than just not doing any- you can be looking in your mirrors constantly and still fail if you're not taking in the correct details, or acting well on what you see. Looking alone isn't enough. Also you mentioned only changing lanes and moving off- surround obs are absolutely constant, again could just be your turn of phrase but those fundamental checks aren't enough.

Because it seems you need to turn your head a lot and show the examiner that you're looking.. not just moving your eyes.

How can you check your blind spots properly if you only move your eyes?
Are they on stalks?

surround obs are absolutely constant

Yep. I remember my instructor saying I should check my mirrors before I accelerate, brake, change gear, signal or fart. 🙂

I will be signing up for some lessons soon.

Any good instructor in the North East in the toon?

🙂

I think people training for the test are probably the safest drivers out there... I believe this... after that most people seem to forget everything in the test and drive too fast, don't bother indicating, change lanes like they own the road, etc.

You have virtually no experience and yet you feel qualified to make a statement like that 🙄 Learner drivers may be relatively safe but that is only because there is someone sitting next to them (hopefully) with experience and keeping them right.

You mention that your road positioning was poor and make a point about being obvious with your observation. A decent examiner will know if you are aware of your surroundings and looking and [i]seeing[/i] are two very different things. By saying that whether you pass or not is a lottery, or bad traffic, seems to me to be trying to shift the blame for your poor performance onto everyone but yourself, when you have actually admitted to very basic errors throughout your test.

Sounds to me like you need a few more lessons.

Did you look or glance at the mirrors?

I've done three driving tests (B, B+E + C), and passed all first time.
Main thing that helped me, was somebody who told me to remember that the examiner wants to go for a pleasant drive.

C test is the most nervous I'd been for such a prolonged time I can ever remember.
I was feeling quite confident to start with, as the bit I'd been the most worried about, the reverse manouver, I'd managed perfectly, but then in the process of doing the controlled stop, I crunched reverse going up the range change, and nerves kicked in big time.
It was a 4 over 4 box, with a range change switch, so you basically rolled around the corner into the test straight in 2nd, block changed to 4th, flicked the switch to High, then back into 1st gate which was then 5th gear. Somehow I managed to push through the reverse gate and slightly crunched reverse, but got back into 5th and made 20mph just at the braking markings.
I thought I'd failed before I even got out the test centre. It wasn't helped by the examiner who laid his clip board in the centre of the cab just out of where I could see it, and would pick it up every few minutes and run his pen over it, making it look as though he was marking something down.

I'd say I'm a reasonably good driver, but part of that is realising what my weaknesses are, which is mostly going a bit too fast, and currently enjoying the ability to get the back end of the car weaving along the temporary road surface along to the house 😆

part of the problem is the infrastructure is simply not designed for todays's volumes,or speeds.
If it was up to me,only emergency services would have cars.doctors,vets.most freight would go by rail.But it's not up to me.
So every f....g time I go out on my road bike I have one near miss with some d....d who's going too fast/overtakes where he can't/ecc.
having said that,most drivers are considerate,still don't drive at driving test level though.shame really, they'd drive better.

Before the police officers on here get too self-congratulatory I'd like to remind them that despite all the training the agverage Met police officer is more likely to kill you with his car than an average driver.

[url= http://road.cc/content/news/28837-number-accidents-met-police-vehicles-involved-declines-fatalaties-are ]Police driving standards are lousy[/url]

Which bit? That you are much more likely to die on a country road than a motorway? Because I'm sorry, no matter how you "cut it" the evidence is quite clear that motorways are our safest roads, and high speed collision on country roads are the biggest killer of young men behind the wheel.

Hopefully you won't take out any innocent road users on the way.

It just seems to me that you and some other people are implying that I'm some boy racer behind the wheel, which I'm not at all. I just want to pass the test so I can drive to different bike venues I've never been to.

I think people training for the test are probably the safest drivers out there... I believe this... after that most people seem to forget everything in the test and drive too fast, don't bother indicating, change lanes like they own the road, etc.
That's really rather silly, isn't it.
You have virtually no experience and yet you feel qualified to make a statement like that Learner drivers may be relatively safe but that is only because there is someone sitting next to them (hopefully) with experience and keeping them right.

How many people do you see nearly cut you off on the bike, rail around roundabouts with no signal, changing lanes nearly causing a crash, mostly drivers with no L plates.. unless theyre learners and just don't bother using them. Ok so in a lot of cases their old people that might be past it and possibly not allowed drive on the roads, but thats a different debate.

I'm much safer at driving than a lot of people out there..

😀

I think people's atitudes to you might in some way reflect you telling various posters they have their heads up their arses, are on high horses etc., mmc.

I haven't offered any direct advice so far but will now:

Relax, take things in your stride, drive so that however incompetent and aggressive others may be they don't put you in danger or force you to make brusque movements. Leave plenty of distance between you and other road users, react a soon as you identify a potential hazard so that if it becomes a real hazard it's easy to stop/avoid. If the tester can sereenly watch the world go by as you smoothly chauffeur him/her around he/she won't fail you.

When someone raises a finger smile, when they blow their horn impatiently potter on unruffled. And do the same when posting on STW.

Classic teenager logic. I failed my test but it's everyone else's fault.

My 17yr old brother in law crashed into the back of a lorry in the the snow a couple of winters ago because 'it stopped to quick'.

I'm much safer at driving than a lot of people out there..

Failed the car test first time. Driving rather over confident, didn't slow for a roundabout because I could see that the other ways onto it were empty, should have at least shown an intention of slowing rather than changing up. Remembered this and passed second time.

Failed trailer test first time too. Just because I am used to driving country lanes and squeezing through a lot of tight gaps, now well practiced and without having to slow much, does not mean that the assessor is and he had a few eye closing moments. Took note, passed second time.

Not stuff that was done because I thought I was a driving God, just got a bit familiar and blase.

Also done a load of stuff through work for quads, 4x4, tractor and stuff, far more interesting and about finding the boundaries.

As for the motorway comment, from where I grew up in West Cornwall, the nearest bit of motorway is Exeter, would make the test a half day affair. Would far rather people learnt to drive on country lanes, not down the middle, most are wide enough for 2 cars to pass and you should not be travelling so slow as to hold up a tractor.

michaelmcc - Member

I'm much safer at driving than a lot of people out there..

That's entirely possible. But don't be too pleased, it's only because there are a lot of people out there driving who are terrifying. You can be safer than them and still a liability 😉

The idea is to make you a safe, qualified driver; not to make you better than the worst on the road.

I'm much safer at driving than a lot of people out there..

Your driving is above average? Or is your "lot of people" your mates who straight line roundabouts?

I was talking about said people that cut me off when I'm on the bike, don't bother signalling at roundabouts (it seems the norm where i live to not bother after you've passed your test), pass out at stupid places etc.

Anyway I think this thread needs to be put to bed, I'm a bit fed up with it and don't think it's going anywhere now.

When someone raises a finger smile, when they blow their horn impatiently potter on unruffled. And do the same when posting on STW.

Not sure what you're getting at there.. I get on really well with most fellow mountain bikers. The only ones not so much maybe are ones that came to the sport late and haven't developed the biker mentality about things yet.

Anyway I think this thread needs to be put to bed, I'm a bit fed up with it

michaelmcc - Member
ones that came to the sport late and haven't developed the biker mentality about things yet.

Funny, I feel the same about drivers 😉

Edukator although your argument that police driving standards are lousy is as typically sophisticated and nuanced as most police bashing that goes on STW permit me raise a couple of issues with that report.

Firstly - those statistics and that entire article are based on reports from the Daily Mail. Despite me being typical violent, fascist, stupid, racist, jobsworth police officer I distrust anything reported by the Mail or its stable mates.

Secondly - those statistics are collisions 'involving' a police vehicle. Let me do some of the work the reporter hasn't and give you a better understanding of the way in which such stats are compiled. Say for example I'm on a blue light run in a marked police vehicle and I approach a red traffic light. I treat the junction as a give way and slow to a standstill. A vehicle coming from my right reacts to the lights and sirens and slams on his brakes a little quicker than he needs to. A cyclist then slams in to the rear of his vehicle and hurts himself. That would be a collision involving a police car, although it wasn't my fault as the police driver. Let me give you another example. Someone parks a police riot van in the yard of a police station and grazes another police vehicle as he's reversing. Thats recorded as a collision involving two police vehicles! Shockingly bad driving from everyone involved and a totally unacceptable risk to public safety. Let me give you one more example. Say a police vehicle is in a pursuit with a stolen moped. The police vehicle keeps a safe distance in the hope the moped rider stops and gives up. The moped rider takes a wrong turn and ends up at a dead end. He crashes the ped and jumps over the side of a pedestrian bridge, not realising its actually 20 metres up. He dies. This would be treated as a fatal collision involving the police. Those statistics make no mention of who was to actually blame for any fatality or collision. The police invest huge amounts of time and effort in improving standards of driving and the investigation of any collision involving a police vehicle is very rigorous.

I'm also not entirely sure that comparing the general public like for like to a group of people that have to drive at high speed, in pursuits or who come in to contact with intoxicated or criminal drivers is statistically sound. Are you suggesting that if the general public were given blues and twos and asked to drive at full tilt everywhere there would be no resulting increase in crashes? Personally I think only the Daily Mail or someone a little soft in the head would look at it in such a simplistic way.

There are plenty of other sources of statistics on police accidents on the Net. The police have lots of accidents and are involved in more fatal accidents than average. It's getting better but still not good. The Sweeny style is no longer acceptable and discouraged but officers still have lots of crashes.

Any casual observer can see why, too many drive too fast on missions that simply aren't life or death.

IMO (and it is only an opinion remember) if the police wish to go around chasing people because they judge them dangerous they should be armed and on motorbikes or in helicopters. They'd stand a better chance of protecting the public without putting the public in danger.

Chasing a stolen moped in a police car is exactly what the police should not be doing. Putting the pulic in danger for something as trivial as a moped when the police can't even follow the thing down an alley way. Who's soft in the head, me or a copper stupid enough to go racing through a residential area in a probably fruitless attempt to recover a moped. Let's keep pursuits for mass murderers and armed robbery eh.

Edukator's police force out catching offenders earlier 😀

Not quite what I had in mind Ian but demonstrably efficient.

There might not be quite as much STW police bashing if police contributors were a little less sterotypically heavy handed, condescending and incapable of listening to the views of others without considering those views a bookable offence..

I think Nonsense makes a perfectly reasonably point Edukator.

The accident stats for police vehicles will naturally tend to be higher due to the work they do and the way the stats are recorded.

You can't take those figures and correctly conclude that [i]"Police driving standards are lousy"[/i]. It is classic false reporting. Something the Mail tends to specialise in.

So the mere mention on the Daily Mail in an article renders it invalid. OK. Here's the opening paragraph of a Nottingham Unversity study:[i]

"Police pursuit driving has previously been defined as “an active
attempt by a law enforcement officer operating a motor vehicle
with emergency equipment to apprehend a suspected law violator
in a motor vehicle, when the driver of the vehicle in question
attempts to avoid apprehension” (Alpert, 1987, p. 299). This
activity can be extremely dangerous to both parties involved in the
pursuit and the general public. Recent statistics and some highprofile
incidents in the United Kingdom have highlighted a rise in
police-driver accidents. Sir Alistair Graham, chairman of the U.K.
Police Complaints Authority, recently commented on a 178%
increase in fatalities involving police pursuits, which he described
as “totally unacceptable. . .[/i]"

I'l adopt Sir Grahams vocabulary and refer to police driving standards as "totally unacceptable", which means much the same as lousy.

Can't imagine why that could be.

Because some people here are acting like tool bags.

Mods close this down please!!

Edukator - you also missed my point about not being over confident and driving beyond your ability. I don't think you quite appreciate the point I was making and I think you may have taken it a little personally. I wasn't trying to have a go at you. Just suggesting that statistics were being manipulated to support an ill thought through argument.

Now that study. Firstly thats talking about police pursuits, which you correctly identify are highly dangerous and therefore very carefully managed and frequently result in the police ending the pursuit. That is completely different to response driving. Even if the pursuit results in a fatality it does not automatically follow that the police driver was at fault.

I'm not suggesting the police are perfect or that the training, especially for standard response drivers, could be more rigorous. But you are talking about a subject that you clearly know very little about.