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Riding to work on tuesday morning, down a stretch of promanarde that is for cyclists and pedestrians only, in between New Brighton and Seacombe on the Wirral. About quarter of the way down I see a bin lorry driving in the cycle lane from about 500 meters away, I stay in the cycle lane getting closer and closer and the lorry showing no signs of moving until I am a few feet away. At which point I raise my arm and shout to the driver 'this is a cycle lane!', to which I get a torrent of abuse. Shocked, but not really surprised I carry on until I get to work, then I ring the council to make a complaint. The woman on the phone was helpful, but slightly dismissive, and she said I will get a follow up call from a member of management but without a reg. no. she wasn't sure there was much they could do.
The next morning on my way to work, same thing, in the cycle lane and shouting abuse when I point out this fact. This time however, I turn around and take their reg. no. The driver then stops the lorry and the passenger gets out first and says 'we've reported you, and my supervisor is on his way'. To which I asked him what they had reported me for? Riding in the cycle lane? and to my surprise his answer was yes! The driver then got out pulled his scarf over his face and started walking towards me shouting something about me being careless, and they'd reported me yesterday for speeding, being abusive and not looking where I was going! I replyed with some sort of rant about it being a cycle lane and the prom not even being a highway and vehicles not being alowed on the prom. The driver started arguing with me and the other guy said wait for the supervisor, so we waited.
When the supervisor arrived, he too was driving in the cycle lane! He got out of the car and started shouting at me -not trying to calm the situation- for abusing his staff. I told him that they where braking the law, by 1) driving in the cycle lane and 2) driving down the prom. He told me they have permission to drive down the prom and they have a job to do, I asked him if they had permission to be driving in the cycle lane. He avoided the question three times, until I told him to just answer my question, which he did and said they did have permission to be in the cycle lane. I took his name, carried on to work and rang the council again. I was told that my complaint would be logged with my previous complaint but I'd have to wait between 1 and 15 working days for my complaint to be delt with.
Has anyone else had anyother such experience, or a similar dealing with a council over people employed by the council, directly or an outsourced party. If so what was the outcome?
As a wirral resident I have seen some poor driving and bullying tactics from these teams. Your experience doesnt surprise me. Good luck with yout complaint.
Report to the Police?
So you played chicken with a bin lorry, shouted at them, then complained to their boss that they'd reacted proportionatley?
Unless by being there it put you in some sort of danger (I'm guessing the prom is wide enough for the both of you), then what's the problem, as they said, they've got a job to do, they can't do it without being on the prom, presumably the alternative is to park in the road during commuting time and push/carry the bins from the seafront to the road?
Sorry but you need to wise up here pal, you will find that local government / utility vehicles are exempt as the paths and street furniture needs to accessed to be maintained. But they should be moving slowly (just above walking pace) and have Amber beacons illuminated and in the case of what is probaly a 30 ton a refuse wagon "should" have banksmen out as well when not on the highway and in an area where they are likely to encounter the public, but this will depend on local policy.
I meet the lads & lasses from Northumberland County Council all the time when I'm out and can't complain at all.
I suspect that from the sounds of it you went all "outraged of daily maily land" on them the first time, failed to even consider the circumstanses and just spat the dummy at which point they WILL get the hump and WILL report your behavior as it will be logged as a "violent incident", if you shout and continue to shout at a public officials then expect a visit from the rozzers as there is ZERO tolerance of this sort of behavior.
Now I'm not saying that they are all saints but bear in mind 99% of all refuse wagons will have CCTV on them for insurance purposes, so whilst you have NO witnesses they will have plenty.
Personally I'd just man up and apologise to them, tell them you misread the situation possibly even buy them a pint or two and you would not believe how accomodating they will be.
I spoke to a barrister, this morning and he said I have a claim for careless driving.
Yes there is pleanty of space for us both, but what you are forgetting is that it is against the law to drive in a cycle lane. It is also against the law to drive down the prom!
aren't all bin men ex-cons?
you should watch your back.
First post - well done.
Bin-lorry you say... you should have grabbed him and held him over the crushing teeth of his bin-lorry until he apologised.
First post - well done.
Yep, that was the next check. I guess since 'flaps' was locked our little ghost needs somewhere else to go
Isn't that section of promenade about 50ft wide?
I spoke to a barrister, this morning and he said I have a claim for careless driving.Yes there is pleanty of space for us both, but what you are forgetting is that it is against the law to drive in a cycle lane. It is also against the law to drive down the prom!
Precicely which bit of "EXEMPT" are you failing to understand? It means that they are EXEMPT from this particular bit of road traffic legistation to access and service the street furniture
Go ahead sue them... then moan when they close the cycle path every morning for half an hour to an hour to service the bins as somebody complained.
Be careful what you wish for cos I suspect this is really gonna bite you on the arse
aren't all bin men ex-cons?
you should watch your back.
Only some of us are but remember we know who you are and where you live 
[quote=binners ]Isn't that section of promenade about 50ft wide?
Close... http://goo.gl/maps/oqlx6 http://goo.gl/maps/S6SMR
Was the van even moving? You said it didn't move, but I guess you could have meant it didn't react to your one man game of chicken.
Bessides, the counil owns the prom so can probably set it's own rules on who can can't be there. Bit like there's no public right of way over your driveway, but you still park there (if you have a driveway and a car).
Even [i]I[/i] wouldn't get upset about a bin lorry driving in a cycle lane! What would you rather - that they didn't drive in it, but you'd have to dodge the bin men as they crossed it with the bins?
Bizarre, even to a self-righteous git like myself.
They have a job to do. Ride round them or wait for them to pass.
Be nice to people, they may even be nice back.
Follow up your complaint and write to the local paper, If it happens again, take photos and details.
Your in the right, **** the ignorance of the few and make a stand! 😀
I would have ridden around them and not even thought twice about it.
scotroutes Close... http://goo.gl/maps/oqlx6http://goo.gl/maps/S6SMR
You are complaining about an official vehicle on a road THAT wide!
Oh and why are you speaking to a Barrister?????
A Solicitor would be more appropriate and he would also probably realise that "careless driving" (technically "Driving with undue care & attention")is an inappropriate offense here as they are technically (by your own admission) outwith the highway.
Now if he had used the more appropriate legistation to wit [i]section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 provides the offence of driving a mechanically propelled vehicle without lawful authority on common land, moorland or land not forming part of a road, or on any road which is a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway. [/i]
"Ah smell bovine faeces here, Elvis is IN the kitchen"
I wonder how many of those posting have actually ridden down the prom in question? No reason for a bin lorry to be there two days in a row that I can work out. Not to collect rubbish from any bins there anyway - maybe for bin lorry to take a shortcut. In fact I'm struggling to see why you'd take a normal bin lorry down there anyway, given it's at the most only a few small litter bins we're talking about, not normal household bins, and most places I've seen those being emptied it wasn't with a bin lorry. I'm less than convinced that said bin lorry does have a valid reason for being there.
I was riding along there recently and heard an engine coming up behind me - was all ready to shout out that they weren't supposed to be there, but it when I looked it was a paramedic car, who presumably do have a proper exemption and reason for being there (and he gave me a toot and a thumbs up as he went past not driving in the bike lane).
First up, poor rant. Bad grammar and use of apostrophe.
Second, were they driving in the cycle lane, or working in the cycle lane? Is it a cycle lane, or a no-car lane?
Third. They reported you? Really?
Fourth, if they [i]were[/i] in the wrong and caused a problem, you could go to the police about it. I got side-swiped off the road by a bus last year, straight to the police who came down hard on the bus-driver. I purposely bypassed going to the bus company management.
But it sounds like they didn't cause a problem, you could have just gone around them and let it lie...
God, and here was me thinking [b][i]I[/b][/i] was a self-righteous, reactionary prick......
[i] I'm less than convinced that said bin lorry does have a valid reason for being there.[/i]
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"Its one of my lorries. Kapish?"
Larger refuse wagons are often tasked to empty (small) public litter bins as part of their round/route, certainly in Northumberland and the Scottish Borders, it's called maximising your resources, why send two vehicles out when you have one passing.
woody2000 - Member
God, and here was me thinking I was a self-righteous, reactionary prick......Posted 25 seconds ago # Report-Post
Don't worry, you still are; 😀 but you have been here a wee while and will probably remain, the OP on the other hand...
Honestly, what a thing to get outraged at.
Meh. I smell troll.
I spoke to a barrister, this morning and he said I have a claim for careless driving.
You have a [b]claim[/b]!?
Why on earth did it even occur to you to yell at a council vehicle going about its business?
Of course council vehicles cause all sorts of very temporary very mild inconvenience (in your case, the need for some mild steering input), but it means the drains work and the rubbish is taken away. If you see a utilities van parked next to a hole will you ride at the hole yelling abuse and sue them for not filling it in before you plunged down it?
I think I know who it was....
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I spoke to a barrister....
Aye course you did.
Would the OP be yelling at an ambulance driving down the wrong side of the road. Or a police car?
This reminds of a situation a while back when I was riding on a footpath which was about 10ft wide. As I approached some walkers who were on the opposite side of the path, one of them crossed the path and stood in my way. So I rode around him, at a good distance and very slowly. He then said 'you do know this is a footpath don't you', to which I replied that I did but there was loads of room and no harm done. He then went off on a rant about breaking the law and stuff at which point I rode off. I guess for some people rules and regulations override common sense.
I guess for some people rules and regulations override common sense
"....unt zen ve invade Poland......."
How can the OP "have a claim"? He hasn't lost anything or been caused any harm by this.
Perhaps he just likes shouting at vehicles of all descriptions. I know I do. Then having a bit of a doze......
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Buses are my favourite.
How can the OP "have a claim"? He hasn't lost anything or been caused any harm by this.
Emotional distress?
Binners, somebody appears to have wedgied your blue thong right up around your neck...
How can the OP "have a claim"? He hasn't lost anything or been caused any harm by this.
Loss of teddy & dummy
johnellison - Member
Meh. I smell troll.
What's it smell like?
(technically "Driving with undue care & attention")is an inappropriate offense here as they are technically (by your own admission) outwith the highway.)
Maybe not. Careless driving - RTA 1988 Section 3 - applies to a road or public place.
RTA 1988 Section 3 - applies to a road or public place
Happy to stand corrected by someone more knowledgeable 😛
Would the OP be yelling at an ambulance driving down the wrong side of the road. Or a police car?
Yes cos its all the same innit, saving peoples lives, emptying bins 🙄
Riding to work on tuesday morning, down a stretch of promanarde that is for cyclists and pedestrians only, in between New Brighton and Seacombe on the Wirral. About quarter of the way down I see a bin lorry driving in the cycle lane from about 500 meters away, I stay in the cycle lane getting closer and closer and the lorry showing no signs of moving until I am a few feet away. At which point I raise my arm and shout to the driver 'this is a cycle lane!', to which I get a torrent of abuse. Shocked, but not really surprised I carry on until I get to work, then I ring the council to make a complaint. The woman on the phone was helpful, but slightly dismissive, and she said I will get a follow up call from a member of management but without a reg. no. she wasn't sure there was much they could do.
As a fellow wirral resident i cycle the prom frequently, on and within the cycle lane, and it is shared with Paramedic cars, transit type caged refuse collection vehicles, and big recycling compactors and un recyclable waste collection vehicles, along with an Armed responce unit a few months ago,the councils own security patrol then there is the RNLI, looking for people in trouble in the water, or who may have drowned, the Coastguard doing the same, and the Environment agency, all use the prom to access bins, used by some doggers to dump their little plastic bags of dog pooh, or as a route to an emergency etc.
Also i would rather have a vehicle traveling slowly down the white lined cycle lane, as opposed to swerving all over the prom, to avoid cyclists, doggers, walkers, and kids whos parents have no control over them.
doggers
er...... you may want to google that term before you throw it around with such gay abandon
DOGGERS, people who exercise dogs, with little care for the environmnet,by dumping their litle packages where they like.
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By way of contrast...
I was taking my daughter to nursery yesterday in the bike trailer, and I got stuck behind a bin lorry on a narrow street. The bin man signalled to the driver to stop the lorry so I could squeeze through safely.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=doggers&oq=doggers&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.1140.2697.0.3123.7.6.0.1.1.0.393.1412.0j3j2j1.6.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.5.psy-ab.af55aArKVx0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.d2k&fp=64a5155518d1f2bb&biw=1440&bih=817 ]clicky[/url] er not really
It may be YOUR term for dog walkers but it ain't the rest of the UK's...
+1 Binners
oh link is deffo NSFW
I had to stand for 10 extra seconds at a pedestrian crossing this morning while an ambulance went through on red. She even had the cheek to acknowledge me with a wave. Doesn't she know it's illegal to go through a red light?
I've spoken to my solicitor and he thinks I have a cast iron case against her.
Scousers in getting lairy and shouting at each other shocker.
Jock -mutley. doggers,Its just another name, attached to a sexual act,stolen and reused by those who want a descriptive name for what they do, that doesnt ofend the masses,and can be used for doggerists.
The word doggers fits people who allow their dogs to empty their bowels on public highways and footways.
Just like people who walk faster are called joggers.
CALM DOWN -CALM DOWN, its only a scouse forum post.
If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll and smells like a troll chances are...
Maybe it's the beer talking, but the OP seems like a right **** to me. Gives us cyclers a bad name
Yep, I've read this thread with almost complete disbelief; I can't believe any individual can be so stroppy, up-his-own-arse and self-righteous that he can actually report council employees for going about their jobs.
But I've a horrible feeling he really did report them. Amazing. Thank God he doesn't live next door to me; I pee on my own lawn.
....and to the OP, the plural of driver is drivers.
'antieverything' obviously feels strongly enough about this to sign up to the forum especially so he could vent!
The bin men sound like idiots (inflaming the situation instead of just reasoning with you), but I suspect the bike lane is the safest place to be, at least everyone using the prom can see they are sticking to a marked path so they know how to keep out of the way.
they are EXEMPT from this particular bit of road traffic legistation to access and service the street furniture
Out of interest, are they still exempt from it when they're not accessing street furniture?
bails - MemberHow can the OP "have a claim"? He hasn't lost anything or been caused any harm by this.
Well, other than his dignity and any hope of ever being taken seriously by STW. And probably, very soon, his second login.
What was the driver's in the cycle lane? 🙂
Pretty obvious troll. Some of you are way too easy to wind up.
I think the OP & the bin men need to calm down. Calm down...eh...eh...
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OP - you're an ass.